Post Match Thread Brentford 0 - 0 Middlesbrough

Mr Cynical

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Predictably awful game against a classic Warnock side. Slow start and we just got slower as the game wore on. Canos started brightly along with JDS but that soon faded as the game descended into a succession of free kicks. Akpom missed a great chance for boro and the Janelt somehow contrived to put the ball over an open goal from 6 yards. In these games you get one big chance and you have to take it. We didn't.

Credit to Mads Bech who looked v composed and Pinnock who won everything until his brain detached itself from his spinal cord due to sheer boredom 5 minutes from the end..

Experiment to go 4-4-2 with Forss and Toney up front enabled boro to completely take over a midfield they'd generally dominated from the off and ended up pressing us back in our own half. Ghoddos and Fosu came on too apparently.

The team looked knackered. Our passing was poor, there was no movement up front, no tempo and our pressing was slow and indecisive, we're running on empty at the moment. Let's hope most internationals get cancelled and players can get a bit of a break. Hopefully a couple of injured players will return to give us a boost ahead of Wycombe.

On the plus side we didn't look overly threatened and we kept a clean sheet but we need to work hard on increasing the tempo and moving the ball quicker up the pitch. Quite a relief in a way that it's the international break!
 

BaildonBee

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It was a terrible game yes but was that Middlesbrough's fault? They looked like a team that will do well if they get a decent forward line together to me.
 

Simon C

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We don't impose our game on teams for more than small periods of a game anymore and when we come up against a team with a plan we struggle. We have to hope that leaders like Norgaard returning will fix this but this season is likely to be more of a grind than we are used to.

It's very possibly a good thing for the team that fans aren't there to get on the teams back while we get used to this as it wouldn't have been pretty today. We've been spoilt and it's changing
 

Peteseeger

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Lots of insipid huff and puff but complete lack of quality. Mads had a good game and Toney was the only one who showed any passion, skill and inventiveness going forward. Hopefully, the international break will enable us to recharge the batteries and start playing football again otherwise we will simply end up as an anonymous mid table team.
 

sheffbee

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The game went pretty well as expected against the meanest defence in the division. Mads coming back was a huge bonus, we looked so much more comfortable at the back with him there. We lose a little by moving Ethan to the right side but I guess with Pontus out this is the best fit. They seemed to close down Jensen so we were missing that creative passing. As Mr.C said, with Forss on we lost the midfield and could easily have conceded late on. The defence held together well. Raya and the back four looked ok generally. The midfield and front three were well marshalled by Boro who didn't allow us to make any headway. Thought a draw was fair but once again we fail to unlock these tightly organised defences.
 

Leedsbee

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Little surprised with our attention to detail that the pitch seems to become a factor once the sun goes down.
 

shepperton bee

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Always difficult to be subjective just after a really disappointing performance like that but when you look at the goals we have scored this season most have come from getting behind the defence and cutting balls back for Toney to score from close range. We never had possession in the right areas or had enough men forwards to create more than the Janelt chance which should have won the game for us. Credit is due to Boro as obviously they would have worked at starving us of any opportunity like that but we moved the ball way too slowly and gave it away too often to ever build up any pressure. If we are to play Toney and Forss together then Frank needs to put in plenty of work as to how we set up as after the substitution we were outnumbered in midfield and gave Boro fresh impetus and they could easily have won the game in stoppage time as they dominated and with the usually peerless Pinnock having a mad minute or two I was definitely clock watching and happy for the final whistle to come.
What we obviously need now is to get some key players fit regroup over the next 2 weeks and believe in ourselves a bit more form is temporary class is permanent and we have enough of the latter to be challenging for top 6 over a gruelling season.
 

maddogging

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We’ve just had to play three of the better teams at home in quick succession without the player many of us class as our leader in Norgaard, and we didn’t lose any of them. Just have to stay in the hunt this season and see what happens.
 

magicbees

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The break has come at the right time, the last 2 performances have been poor. Test now for TF he had it pretty easy last season with the way the team performed and the magic of Said. He needs to come up with a formation that suits this squad.
 

mundee4england

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Boro were set up not to lose but we really offered nothing. Slow right from the start, no incisive passing, no trickery, no running with the ball, it was just a very static affair and considering we knew exactly how Boro would play we just didn’t seem to have planned to break them down.

I‘ve always liked Sergi but really feel he needs some time out of the team, he just adds so little. He runs but that is about it at the moment, at times he looks lost, running down dead ends and his decision making on the ball is so poor.

Other than that Toney worked hard and nearly made things happen, whilst Mads once again looked very solid. Henry and Ethan steady as always but nothing from the rest.

We need players back so we can rotate and add energy. We also need to be able to adapt to overcome opposition tactics, I know we have been successful in a 433 but sometimes you have to mix it up. Having said that two up top weakened us significantly today when we should have been going for a winner.

Most desperately we need to fill the Said shaped hole in terms of flair and creativity. Toney will do Ollie’s job, maybe even better, but the lack of creativity in the final third is so obvious its painful and everything is very predictable.

I feel we have the quality to be top 6 or better in what will be an odd season, but we need to click soon and not fall too far from Norwich/Muff/Watford.
 

shouldbee

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The break has come at the right time, the last 2 performances have been poor. Test now for TF he had it pretty easy last season with the way the team performed and the magic of Said. He needs to come up with a formation that suits this squad.
No he/ they needs to freshen up the squad in January.
 

Stanley

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Easy to get down after that but we never play well against a Warnock side and today proved no exception. They effectively man marked us out of large parts of the game. With no fans to give the team the extra man the game slipped away for in largeperiods. when we got our passing ad movement going (in flashes) we looked threatening but it was too patchy.

Positives were we are looking more solid at the back and young Mads has really come through and we of course we didn't lose.

The break has come at just the right time to recharge some of the batteries at least.
 

condorman

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Very dull game, janelt should have scored and we would have won ugly

all wingers are woefully out of form with Josh and Rico our only attacking threat around Ivan

Mads played well as did Pinnock and Rico as normal. Jensen not at recent good standard
 

Houghton Bee

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Watching it on ifollow was a bit like being transported back 12 years or so.

Empty ground, drab football and some miserable bastards grumbling in your ear for 90 minutes.
 

grutter

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I can accept the dour display today, as we knew it would be against a team of spoilers. Happy to take a point. Not an excuse for our own slow pace or lack of ideas though.

However, I think what concerns me more is we've looked knackered for large parts of the last 3 games now. Yes, we know it's an unforgiving fixture list, but it's the same for everyone. Lots of comments about 'at least we've got the international break', but that won't give everyone a rest. Thomas really needs time at Jersey Road to get our slickness back to where it was. He also needs to work out quickly how and where to play Ghoddos and Marcondes, as whenever they play, they don't seem to fit the systen, My concern there, is he is not going to get much time to do that with so little time in between games. I am not as convinced as others that the return of Norgaard and Janson will suddenly make our 'total football' click into place again.
 
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IslandBee

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Watching it on ifollow was a bit like being transported back 12 years or so.

Empty ground, drab football and some miserable bastards grumbling in your ear for 90 minutes.
Yep, the best bit was when the commentary sound was lost!!
 

wanderer paul

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Watching it on ifollow was a bit like being transported back 12 years or so.

Empty ground, drab football and some miserable bastards grumbling in your ear for 90 minutes.
Pwoper football. :(
 

Mark Bonner

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A few thoughts:

Raya, Pinnock, Sorenson, Henry, Dalsgaard, Da Silva, Toney. That's 7 players playing anywhere near their potential.

Regardless of who we try in the other spots, Jensen, Marcondes, Canos, Ghoddos, Goode and Janelt are all underperforming via inconsistency.

Jensen is incredibly frustrating as he has bags of ability, but to my mind, he is very weak mentally. He fades, hides even in games as is just not demanding enough of himself I feel. Some people have drive and some don't. I think Da Silva is a player who suffers naturally from a lack of drive, but is pushing hard to improve this aspect and use his ability and strength to influence games. At least he is pushing his own weakness, but Jensen is not.

Canos is appearing alarmingly naiive in possession. Poor decision making is reducing his effect on games. His exuberance is not enough on its own in the Championship. He needs to have a think about his performance first 10 games and resist flicks and nutmegs in preference to making effective use of possession.

Marcondes too. Talent but a lack of application in games.

Its not that they are not trying, its more a lack of drive in their own contribution.

Dalsgaard has a terrible record as captain in terms of wins I believe. I'm not sure who was talking today, who was driving for the win. Da Silva had his moments where he just drives right at them, but for me, I'd like to see this 4 out of five times, not 1 out of 5 times from him. He has the ability to take this division by the scruff of the neck like no other midfielder in the league, but we need 80 effective minutes from him, not just 30-40.

Lots to do for Thomas. I'd like to see 442 until Norgaard is back at home for sure. Forss can help Toney, as at the moment he is starved of service.

The wide players are the big issue, as all are way off their best right now.

Off the Pitch: There's a danger fans and club are losing touch. We need iFollow commentary to be uplifting, and it really wasn't today. I don't want them to sugarcoat bad performances or be sycophantic to their paymasters at the club, but I do expect presenters to be positive in their tone. Mark sounded depressed today, and might also need a break. Clearly, football without fans is annoying him, but It can't dominate his performance as his descriptions of the atmosphere and game are all we've got right now. I found him a hard listen today I must be honest.

I'd like Thomas to vary his post-match comments a little too. We need to know he sees the dropped standards and is aware and is pushing. For me, Fosu has to have a run of games now, else when will Frank play him? If its not now, when all our wingers are not delivering, when will it be? Else, he's an unused signing and I would have preferred another right back as Dalsgaard has played almost every game for 3 seasons now, plus the World Cup. I feel Dalsgaard is increasingly being caught high up the pitch as he's trying so hard to assist on the wing.

Not my favourite game today, that's for sure.
 

Bridge Bee

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MBS is turning in to a great player.

There were no other positives. We are dull and boring to watch. Players shirking responsibility.

There’s nothing to fear in this league, including us.
 

Owlsmoor_Bee

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A few thoughts:

Raya, Pinnock, Sorenson, Henry, Dalsgaard, Da Silva, Toney. That's 7 players playing anywhere near their potential.

Regardless of who we try in the other spots, Jensen, Marcondes, Canos, Ghoddos, Goode and Janelt are all underperforming via inconsistency.

Jensen is incredibly frustrating as he has bags of ability, but to my mind, he is very weak mentally. He fades, hides even in games as is just not demanding enough of himself I feel. Some people have drive and some don't. I think Da Silva is a player who suffers naturally from a lack of drive, but is pushing hard to improve this aspect and use his ability and strength to influence games. At least he is pushing his own weakness, but Jensen is not.

Canos is appearing alarmingly naiive in possession. Poor decision making is reducing his effect on games. His exuberance is not enough on its own in the Championship. He needs to have a think about his performance first 10 games and resist flicks and nutmegs in preference to making effective use of possession.

Marcondes too. Talent but a lack of application in games.

Its not that they are not trying, its more a lack of drive in their own contribution.

Dalsgaard has a terrible record as captain in terms of wins I believe. I'm not sure who was talking today, who was driving for the win. Da Silva had his moments where he just drives right at them, but for me, I'd like to see this 4 out of five times, not 1 out of 5 times from him. He has the ability to take this division by the scruff of the neck like no other midfielder in the league, but we need 80 effective minutes from him, not just 30-40.

Lots to do for Thomas. I'd like to see 442 until Norgaard is back at home for sure. Forss can help Toney, as at the moment he is starved of service.

The wide players are the big issue, as all are way off their best right now.

Off the Pitch: There's a danger fans and club are losing touch. We need iFollow commentary to be uplifting, and it really wasn't today. I don't want them to sugarcoat bad performances or be sycophantic to their paymasters at the club, but I do expect presenters to be positive in their tone. Mark sounded depressed today, and might also need a break. Clearly, football without fans is annoying him, but It can't dominate his performance as his descriptions of the atmosphere and game are all we've got right now. I found him a hard listen today I must be honest.

I'd like Thomas to vary his post-match comments a little too. We need to know he sees the dropped standards and is aware and is pushing. For me, Fosu has to have a run of games now, else when will Frank play him? If its not now, when all our wingers are not delivering, when will it be? Else, he's an unused signing and I would have preferred another right back as Dalsgaard has played almost every game for 3 seasons now, plus the World Cup. I feel Dalsgaard is increasingly being caught high up the pitch as he's trying so hard to assist on the wing.

Not my favourite game today, that's for sure.
I just cannot see how 4-4-2 works at all. We attempted it today and immediately conceded the midfield. Our three man midfield has struggled enough as it is recently, we went with two central midfielders and were utterly overwhelmed against Stoke and you’d be relying on two wide players completely out of form to provide the front two with any service.
 

jlove

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A few thoughts:

Raya, Pinnock, Sorenson, Henry, Dalsgaard, Da Silva, Toney. That's 7 players playing anywhere near their potential.

Regardless of who we try in the other spots, Jensen, Marcondes, Canos, Ghoddos, Goode and Janelt are all underperforming via inconsistency.

Jensen is incredibly frustrating as he has bags of ability, but to my mind, he is very weak mentally. He fades, hides even in games as is just not demanding enough of himself I feel. Some people have drive and some don't. I think Da Silva is a player who suffers naturally from a lack of drive, but is pushing hard to improve this aspect and use his ability and strength to influence games. At least he is pushing his own weakness, but Jensen is not.

Canos is appearing alarmingly naiive in possession. Poor decision making is reducing his effect on games. His exuberance is not enough on its own in the Championship. He needs to have a think about his performance first 10 games and resist flicks and nutmegs in preference to making effective use of possession.

Marcondes too. Talent but a lack of application in games.

Its not that they are not trying, its more a lack of drive in their own contribution.

Dalsgaard has a terrible record as captain in terms of wins I believe. I'm not sure who was talking today, who was driving for the win. Da Silva had his moments where he just drives right at them, but for me, I'd like to see this 4 out of five times, not 1 out of 5 times from him. He has the ability to take this division by the scruff of the neck like no other midfielder in the league, but we need 80 effective minutes from him, not just 30-40.

Lots to do for Thomas. I'd like to see 442 until Norgaard is back at home for sure. Forss can help Toney, as at the moment he is starved of service.

The wide players are the big issue, as all are way off their best right now.

Off the Pitch: There's a danger fans and club are losing touch. We need iFollow commentary to be uplifting, and it really wasn't today. I don't want them to sugarcoat bad performances or be sycophantic to their paymasters at the club, but I do expect presenters to be positive in their tone. Mark sounded depressed today, and might also need a break. Clearly, football without fans is annoying him, but It can't dominate his performance as his descriptions of the atmosphere and game are all we've got right now. I found him a hard listen today I must be honest.

I'd like Thomas to vary his post-match comments a little too. We need to know he sees the dropped standards and is aware and is pushing. For me, Fosu has to have a run of games now, else when will Frank play him? If its not now, when all our wingers are not delivering, when will it be? Else, he's an unused signing and I would have preferred another right back as Dalsgaard has played almost every game for 3 seasons now, plus the World Cup. I feel Dalsgaard is increasingly being caught high up the pitch as he's trying so hard to assist on the wing.

Not my favourite game today, that's for sure.
Marcondes must have had a complete lack of application... I never spotted him.
 

condorman

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We had six starting players today who are left footed. Only Toney, Henrik and Jensen were right footed. Not worked out which Sergi is yet
 

Beecareful

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I hope the players and coaches are given a few days off. Heavy legs and minds.
 

Mark Bonner

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I just cannot see how 4-4-2 works at all. We attempted it today and immediately conceded the midfield. Our three man midfield has struggled enough as it is recently, we went with two central midfielders and were utterly overwhelmed against Stoke and you’d be relying on two wide players completely out of form to provide the front two with any service.
I'd use Da Silva and Fosu wide in possession (and tucked in when out of possession) and have Marcondes and Jensen inside. Baptiste being injured is really killing us as he could have had a real run with Norgaard out. As it is, we've got to re-configure as its stale as it is. 442 at home or 541 away, maybe with Canos at right Wing back and Dalsgaard as a third centre half. 433 is just not working with wingers absent via poor form and lack of confidence. They are not going past anyone or getting behind the opposition at all right now.
 

Indian Bee

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Not much of a post match thread but having watched the first 11 games in the Championship there really is no stand out team. We have had spells this season when we have been good but not consistent as yet. If Dalsgaard coverts the 2 golden opportunities against Norwich and Swansea to put us 2-0 up and Janelt scores today we win our last three home games rather than drawing them and we would be top of the league. So it really is about fine margins. We are better than we are today and the wins will come, just a funny league at the moment as is the Premiership with Southampton currently top.

We are capable of winning 4/5 games on the spin and we all know where the weaknesses are. I just say let's keep the faith. We got a point when we played sh*t today. I take that and the point come end of the season may be crucial.
 

Wise old Bee

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For all their defensive qualities Boro never had the courage to get after us apart from the last few minutes. I suspect that Colin was wary of our attacking ability and was happy just to nullify it showing distinct lack of ambition from a side who have done well this season. Not sure that there are any outstanding sides in this division, probably six to eight sides capable of top two and we are near enough. It's such an unusual season that any side could put a run together when it matters and that could easily be us. We didn't lose today after all.
 
OP
M

Mr Cynical

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We do seem to be on a run of games playing in form teams.. next few fixtures are a little more forgiving so hopefully we can get a bit of form going after the international borefest..

think today showed why we don’t go 4-4-2, we totally surrendered midfield at that point and never got out of our half.
 

cromerbee

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Didn't watch today. Decided to carry on tiling my bathroom instead. Prob made the right decision. Covid football is sh*te!!! League still open to anyone including us. Need the international break but I suspect so does everyone else.
 

halibutbee64

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Perhaps I’m being old fashioned but is it too much to ask the players to go for 50-50 balls and press when the oppositions in possession. It’s ok when we’re doing successful fast slick football but with so many misplaced passes and the ball bouncing about we need to gain back possession. We don’t do contact football.
 

TorbayBee

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We don't impose our game on teams for more than small periods of a game anymore and when we come up against a team with a plan we struggle. We have to hope that leaders like Norgaard returning will fix this but this season is likely to be more of a grind than we are used to.

It's very possibly a good thing for the team that fans aren't there to get on the teams back while we get used to this as it wouldn't have been pretty today. We've been spoilt and it's changing
I understand why you are suggesting this but perhaps it’s a little negative. So many of our players seem out of form( for evidence I hold up the number of inexplicable passes that are miss placed or short) . It’s amazing where we are in the table given our patchy form. I am optimistic that Mbeumo, Dalsgaard, Canos and Marcondes will regain form, Norgaard , Roeslev and Pontus return and we start to real motor.
 

beebopalula

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For all their defensive qualities Boro never had the courage to get after us apart from the last few minutes. I suspect that Colin was wary of our attacking ability and was happy just to nullify it showing distinct lack of ambition from a side who have done well this season. Not sure that there are any outstanding sides in this division, probably six to eight sides capable of top two and we are near enough. It's such an unusual season that any side could put a run together when it matters and that could easily be us. We didn't lose today after all.
Agree re the quality in this league this season. We are more or less as good or bad as a number of teams. For me it's the lack of a real standout player. For example the difference between us and Swansea was Ayew. Last season we had Said and we wont find another. Maybe we had hoped that Baptiste would emerge as a force for us but that's gone pear shaped.IMO success this season will depend ability to do a very hard slog and having a tight defence.
 

Twickenhamben

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We have lost our ability to move quickly from defence to attack, such a key reason why we performed so well the last couple of seasons.

Perhaps it’s tiredness. If so we have an issue as the games are coming at an alarming rate.

I suspect we have been worked out by teams now. TF has a big job to do to work out how we mix it up more. Too slow, too predictable. We look like a mid table side at the mo.
 

jlove

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For me, the most disappointing element was the lack of movement in front of the player on the ball. A number of times Jensen played a ball into space that you'd expect them to be moving into, only Toney seemed to be alert and mobile. Eventually, Jensen and even Dasilva just stopped and waited to see if there was movement – we can't carry on like that, it played into 'Boro's tactics perfectly.
 

Beezy

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Warnock got what he came for. We’re still bedding in new players like Janelt who looks great. Ghoddos also will gain match fitness.
Sergi not quite good enough so far this season.
Noorgard and Jansson to come back and top 6 is on people.
More points this season than last.
We’ll get there. We’ve played some great teams and we’ve a chance to go on a run.

I thought we did well againsT a very Well-drilled Warnock team. He’s a top manager in his career.

The game was a bit of an arm wrestle. 1 goal was always going to be the winner if someone got it. I thought we did well on what was always going to be a really tough day.

Please mute Sawyer!!! What a negative commentary. Not what’s needed.
 

Bee68

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A few thoughts:

Raya, Pinnock, Sorenson, Henry, Dalsgaard, Da Silva, Toney. That's 7 players playing anywhere near their potential.

Regardless of who we try in the other spots, Jensen, Marcondes, Canos, Ghoddos, Goode and Janelt are all underperforming via inconsistency.

Jensen is incredibly frustrating as he has bags of ability, but to my mind, he is very weak mentally. He fades, hides even in games as is just not demanding enough of himself I feel. Some people have drive and some don't. I think Da Silva is a player who suffers naturally from a lack of drive, but is pushing hard to improve this aspect and use his ability and strength to influence games. At least he is pushing his own weakness, but Jensen is not.

Canos is appearing alarmingly naiive in possession. Poor decision making is reducing his effect on games. His exuberance is not enough on its own in the Championship. He needs to have a think about his performance first 10 games and resist flicks and nutmegs in preference to making effective use of possession.

Marcondes too. Talent but a lack of application in games.

Its not that they are not trying, its more a lack of drive in their own contribution.

Dalsgaard has a terrible record as captain in terms of wins I believe. I'm not sure who was talking today, who was driving for the win. Da Silva had his moments where he just drives right at them, but for me, I'd like to see this 4 out of five times, not 1 out of 5 times from him. He has the ability to take this division by the scruff of the neck like no other midfielder in the league, but we need 80 effective minutes from him, not just 30-40.

Lots to do for Thomas. I'd like to see 442 until Norgaard is back at home for sure. Forss can help Toney, as at the moment he is starved of service.

The wide players are the big issue, as all are way off their best right now.

Off the Pitch: There's a danger fans and club are losing touch. We need iFollow commentary to be uplifting, and it really wasn't today. I don't want them to sugarcoat bad performances or be sycophantic to their paymasters at the club, but I do expect presenters to be positive in their tone. Mark sounded depressed today, and might also need a break. Clearly, football without fans is annoying him, but It can't dominate his performance as his descriptions of the atmosphere and game are all we've got right now. I found him a hard listen today I must be honest.

I'd like Thomas to vary his post-match comments a little too. We need to know he sees the dropped standards and is aware and is pushing. For me, Fosu has to have a run of games now, else when will Frank play him? If its not now, when all our wingers are not delivering, when will it be? Else, he's an unused signing and I would have preferred another right back as Dalsgaard has played almost every game for 3 seasons now, plus the World Cup. I feel Dalsgaard is increasingly being caught high up the pitch as he's trying so hard to assist on the wing.

Not my favourite game today, that's for sure.
Great Post, today was a hard watch to be honest even watching i player since we started only time I have jumped of my sofa feeling a sense of enjoyment was when forss has banged a few in
 

Isleworth_Bee

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I think we are hampered by TF concerned about defending our goal then being a threat to the other one. We drop too deep and our press isnt as high.

This is allowing teams to come onto us.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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Thought Mads was great, Janelt another steady game, (he was having to stretch to get to the ball for his missed chance),
wingers and Ghoddos really poor, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we don't exercise the option on Ghoddos.
 

rebus

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We need this break badly. A lot of tired bodies both mentally and physically. We will have Pontus and hopefully Christian back in two weeks time.

So, Colin’s sides are always brick walls. God awful football. Can’t remember many thrillers against him over the decades.

The false nature of the competition this season is showing. I’m sure there are players in our squad that thrive off a crowd but they are getting no appreciation or confidence boost. Who doesn’t get that after a round of applause? It’s nowhere to be seen since March.

Perhaps my bar is low but moving into a new stadium in the middle of a pandemic is enough to be getting on with; I’m just glad of a mid-table place this season and anything else is just a bonus.
 

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