Final Score Brentford 1 (Toney) - 1 Norwich

[Matty D]

I think the game turned on a few periods - first the five minutes after we scored when Marcondes put a free header wide and Toney brought a great save from Krul and Mbuemeo maybe didn't realise how much space he was in from the rebound and tried to lash it in from a very tight angle. We score either of those and I don't think Norwich would have come back from 2-0. The Dalsgaard chance in the second half was also one you have to put away at this level. That also came after we'd done a good job of boxing them on their goal kicks and forcing mistakes from them.

With the injuries we have the 18 almost picks itself. We're playing twice a week for what, a couple of months straight? That means we're going to be making 3 subs most games and some players are going to get minutes because they're fit, not because they're our best in that position. Daniels and the defensive subs probably won't be used except for in-game injuries; so 3 of the remaning 4 subs are likely to feature every time, regardless of who they are.

Ghoddos seems to 'power-down' after about 60 mins so I wasn't surprised to see him hooked. Canos instead of Fosu as his replacement is clearly a puzzler though. Bringing on Janelt and rotating out one of the middle 3 made reasonable sense, but it's hard to escape the conclusion that JDS went as he had the most minutes in his legs. With hindsight that cost us. We can see now that 20 more mins of JDS probably gets us 2 more points. If Marcondes is over his knock then he's going to be a lot fresher than the other options for the middle 3, but how should TF weigh that versus the poor form he's in, and the lack of impact he was having on the game last night. I'm not convinced Forss instead of Toney for the last 10 made much negative impact, for me it was the loss of JDS that changed the momentum.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

BM is close to top of the goal assists list with 4 plus 1 goal. He's not been on top form, but is adding to our our goal threat still. Last night last 25 minutes 1st half we could have put game to bed, with some very good chances. 2nd half we pressed and actually won the 2nd ball often. Even after the substitutions we gave very little away defensively and can't remember a clear cut chance they had 2nd half. A deflected goal gets them the point, another day we hold on for a 1 nil win and many will be singing a different tune of seeing the game out well etc. Fine margins.

That is what he is there for, he constantly lost the ball last night, and so far this season from the games i have watched he has constantly given the ball away, my point is stop blaming Canos , because marcondes and Mbeaumo are just as bad, i think he cost about 6mill. We are looking at three players that are well out of form a t the moment. and i am not slagging the team off it is what i see, do you honestly believe he is playing well so far?

 

[abeeforever]

You mean that vastly exaggerated disease which effects hardly anyone yet has still shut down half the world bizarrely ? Lol

I hardly think that post is a LOL situation, try telling that one to the families of 1.1 million loved ones who have died with that vastly exaggerated disease !!!

 

[liverbee]

Mbeumo is not at his best for ninety, but he is a constant threat.

 

[Matty D]

The cross for the goal got me thinking that maybe ditching the inverted wide forwards temporarily might help with their poor form. Last season we had a consistent goal threat across the front 3, so playing Benrhama and Mbuemo on the sides where they were most likely to score made sense - it was impossible for oppos to shut down all 3 at once. Now we have a central striker in red hot form and wide attackers in generally poor form or finding their feet in Ghoddos' case, but who are still played in way to give them shots at goal at the expense of crossing opportunities. Maybe flip them for now and try and get more balls across the 6 yard box for Toney to attack.

 

[Gazza Bee]

That is what he is there for, he constantly lost the ball last night, and so far this season from the games i have watched he has constantly given the ball away, my point is stop blaming Canos , because marcondes and Mbeaumo are just as bad, i think he cost about 6mill. We are looking at three players that are well out of form a t the moment. and i am not slagging the team off it is what i see, do you honestly believe he is playing well so far?

In the past 1 and a bit seasons he has scored 17 goals and had 12 assists I think so the £6m price tag has been justified. I agree his general play has been poor since lock-down really but he is contributing something at least (in fact joint top of the Championship assists chart this season). Sergi on the other hand is contributing very little and recently has been more of a hindrance TBH

 

[Frothybaby]

We played really well in spells especially last 25 of fiirst half but let’s not get carried away that Norwich were anything that special....at the moment we have mid table written all over us....when we get norgaard back it might change but there’s no goal threat from midfield unless jds has the ball...he needs to rest canos ASAP and marcondes when Baptiste is fit....then things might improve

Brilliant, that allays my primary concern each year!

 

[jlove]

There's some rather weird player-bashing from a game between two teams who will be there-or-thereabouts in 38 games time and where we dropped 2 points due to being unable to kill the game against a team that are masters of the last 10 minutes. I put it down to alcohol last night...

 

[KenCootesNephew]

I hope Ivan Toney isn't reading this.

8 goals from 8 games and he barely gets a mention !

 

[Les Beeavinu]

In our first season back in the Championship, we lost 0-3 at home to Norwich. I left GP strangely happy because we played and competed really well, and I knew we'd be fine at this level. I didn't visit the GPG that night, so don't know how others saw that game, but based on the opinions last night, I shudder to think about what would have been said!

Last night, we might have won, we played very well against a good team and were unlucky at the end. We need to take the chances and make fewer mistakes but doesn't every team? We will be there or thereabouts at the end of the season.

Let me help you on that - the GPG was very positive despite the result because as I recall, we played pretty well that night and 3-0 was considered a very undeserved scoreline. I guess expectations are that much higher now.

 

[TorbayBee]

So much over anxiety on here last night. The final whistle had hardly gone before rants and raves about TF , Canos , Marcondes poured our. I would like to think it was Covid anxiety. I advise certain people to dial it down as it really is not good for you(even the people who think they are having fun by being provocative, save the silly winks)

 

[bwfc]

From West London Sport

Consistent midfielder Josh Dasilva was one of the players substituted during the second half, sparking fears that he may be another casualty to add to the club’s injury list.

But Frank said: “We are playing a lot of games. Josh played a good game, but we wanted another fresh player on the pitch.

“Josh played 90 minutes on Saturday and 90 minutes last Wednesday so we thought that was the right decision to take him off.

“He played a good game again and is very important for us.”

This is fine but you have to ask why he was playing the full 90 minutes against Stoke when 3-0 down? Why wasn't he taken off then and saved for Norwich?

I'm not one for moaning but some of the decisions this season have been baffling. It's the weakest Championship I can remember and Brentford seem determined to make things as hard as possible. Why were important players like Da Silva and Norgaard playing in the League Cup? It wasn't a huge secret that there were league games twice a week for the foreseeable coming up. This has obviously played a part in the growing injury list. I'm not saying games should have been thrown but other players should have been playing in those League Cup games.

Reading the Midtjylland piece in the Guardian last night it was stressed that when 1-0 up they are told to keep attacking and not try to defend a lead. I have read before that this is the Brentford blue print but it's impossible when Thomas makes the substitutions he did. It was a carbon copy of the Bristol City game last season.

 

[TW3Bee]

I hope Ivan Toney isn't reading this.

8 goals from 8 games and he barely gets a mention !

Because this seems to be the thread to slag everyone off, and there's nothing bad to be said about Toney.

 

[beetee]

Think in 2 out of the last 3 games weve actually played quite well and the bad 1 was down to the formation. Things are looking up imo.
One slight concern.. our marking on crosses seems non existent at times.

 

[beetee]

I hope Ivan Toney isn't reading this.

8 goals from 8 games and he barely gets a mention !

He's a better striker than Ollie imo and will score more goals than Ollie did last season if he stays fit.

 

[Mr Tree]

I'm not convinced Forss instead of Toney for the last 10 made much negative impact, for me it was the loss of JDS that changed the momentum.

A very good post in general, mate. I'd just say, Forss for Toney lost us an outlet to relieve pressure and the ball just kept coming back. Plus Ivan is obviously very useful at defending set-pieces. It wasn't the most glaring issue, as you say, but I don't think it helped much.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

I'm not going to be overcritical, or claim 20-20 vision. I thought our performance last night was one of the best of the season so far.

However, when Canos came on I said to my son "I hope TF is making subs for a reason, not just because he can". TBH, I'd like to have seen Forss on for Ghoddos. Having to deal with two goalscoring centre forwards would have given Norwich a different problem and may have disrupted their formation.

At the moment, it seems almost that TF is looking at what he can do to get a result in the next game rather than to make sure he can get a result in the current one (if you follow me).

 

[Ealing Bee]

But those three would of made a difference, our subs killed the game and gave Norwich the upper hand.

Instead of shoving all the blame on TF's subs (and you don't know whether those were all tactical, fitness or injury), you appear not to credit Farke for his three subs: one at H-T, and two on 69 mins.

Or as they say in the military: "Never forget that the enemy has a vote in every battle"

 

[AB]

Reading the Midtjylland piece in the Guardian last night it was stressed that when 1-0 up they are told to keep attacking and not try to defend a lead. I have read before that this is the Brentford blue print but it's impossible when Thomas makes the substitutions he did. It was a carbon copy of the Bristol City game last season.

Arguably all three substitutions were attacking ones. Canos for Ghoddos on 59 is a very orthodox like for like swap adding in pace and energy to attack. Janelt for JDS on 70 switches us from the double pivot of Jensen & JDS playing as defensive midfielders to having Janelt CDM and Jensen and Marcondes further forward. Forss for Toney brings extra energy and running further up the pitch to receive from the more advanced midfielders and the extra energy for crosses from out wide.

Obviously it didn’t quite pan out that way due to a freak deflected goal (the shot was so poor and off target MBS wasn’t even looking to block). But Canos had been on for 28 minutes by then and those were 28 minutes in which we didn’t really look like conceding. A nutmeg in his own half might have been rash (though we’d have praised it had it come off, cf I think the Huddersfield game where a similarly positioned bit of cheek and daring set us off down the wing to lay it on for a goal).

I think TF has a better idea than any of us about whether Fosu should have come on and we should avoid turning him into Said’s second coming on the basis of not playing. If he’d made no subs that would have been more an attempt to just hold on for 1-0.

 

[johndub]

I’m very much a TF fan. I think he has done brilliantly since he took over the reins and we have all enjoyed watching attractive football with some success.
He appears to have the support of the players too. All managers are criticised for their substitutions after a defeat but it’s a stroke of managerial genius in victory. It’s early days yet and we’ve had a number of injuries. I’m confident that TF will turn things around sooner rather than later.

Having said that, I was very surprised when JDS was taken off with the score at 1-0 against a Norwich side that had not been playing badly. (At 2-0 it might have made sense).

 

[Lionel Bart-At]

BM is close to top of the goal assists list with 4 plus 1 goal. He's not been on top form, but is adding to our our goal threat still. Last night last 25 minutes 1st half we could have put game to bed, with some very good chances. 2nd half we pressed and actually won the 2nd ball often. Even after the substitutions we gave very little away defensively and can't remember a clear cut chance they had 2nd half. A deflected goal gets them the point, another day we hold on for a 1 nil win and many will be singing a different tune of seeing the game out well etc. Fine margins.

Spot on. I tried to say this last night, but the message was lost by me erroneously choosing a poor example to illustrate my point of view. The point, as you say, is that the margin between tactical genius and naive fools is as tight as one cruelly deflected goal.

 

[nick logan]

Spot on Gee Bee , good performance. We are nailed on for top 6 , better if we get the team back to full strength.

COYR

 

[TG51]

Our period of play in scoring and for the rest of the half was outstanding. A second goal did nt come but it showed just how good this set of players can be. Hopefully more and more to come.

 

[Gee Bee]

That is what he is there for, he constantly lost the ball last night, and so far this season from the games i have watched he has constantly given the ball away, my point is stop blaming Canos , because marcondes and Mbeaumo are just as bad, i think he cost about 6mill. We are looking at three players that are well out of form a t the moment. and i am not slagging the team off it is what i see, do you honestly believe he is playing well so far?

I don't think he's playing particularly well, but some of that comes from service provided to him also not being great. The point though is he has contributed more than some by way of goal assists, even when not playing well.

 

[gbems92]

How did that toney header not go in, he couldnt have placed it any better, crazy save from krul. Looks to be heading towarda another season of things not going our way

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

How did that toney header not go in, he couldnt have placed it any better, crazy save from krul. Looks to be heading towarda another season of things not going our way

It is always going to be difficult when you sell your best assets and the have to spend a quarter of a season bedding in new players,
but that is not going to change, so we have to do the best we can with what we have.

 

[Bridge Bee]

Clear from last night that we’re low on fuel. A worry when it’s only October. And the ‘international break’ won’t see many of our boys get a break at all.

Ghoddos needs minutes but looks a way off fitness. Canós came on and 10 mins later genuinely looked spent. Fosu must be looking awful in training.

The subs didn’t work out but I can understand the thinking. The thought of a midfield without CN and JDS obviously keeps Thomas awake at night and rightly so. I guess he was happy to gamble for 15-20mins but in trying to protect Josh we lost our mojo.

Goals from elsewhere would be nice as others have said. The wide boys need to start chipping in. But we look like conceding this season. The brick wall of last season seems to have fallen over.

 

[LIONHEART]

Great point last night against a very good Norwich team,

 

[Billy Hunt]

Great point last night against a very good Norwich team,

I thought we played very well and were unlucky not to win.

 

[Milton Keynes Bee]

Should of won, but I just dont understand what TF see's. How Canos gets a game over Fosu I will never know. As for the subs oh dear. We are not going up this season to many passengers.

Should 'have won not 'of'

 

[Norfolk Bee]

Michael Bailey Norwich City's correspondent for the Athletic was very complimentary about the bees and appreciative of the qualities of our players. Made a nice change from some of the stuff on here and elsewhere. Glad to say most bees' fans are likewise sensible and positive.

 

[Freebee]

Should 'have won not 'of'

Address his point not his grammar please it's unnecessary i don't mean to sinlge you out as there are a few other culprits on here.
Honestly what do people get out of doing this?

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

What’s that got to do with my post, we were in danger of being over ran, we all saw that. We did do well to get a point out of the game, josh went off and we lost the grip of bossing the game and gradually let them back, it was a fluke goal but you could see it coming. So far this season we have lost our fluency and our tempo is slow, and there are a few players that need to step up, you only have to look at the posts. For me we are lacking in confidence at the moment. We are in touch of the leaders but we are off what we have been for the last few seasons, its not the end of the world but we do need to improve.

Well you reckon we did well to get a point. We were in control and should of had 3-4 goals after their strong start for 15min.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Instead of shoving all the blame on TF's subs (and you don't know whether those were all tactical, fitness or injury), you appear not to credit Farke for his three subs: one at H-T, and two on 69 mins.

Or as they say in the military: "Never forget that the enemy has a vote in every battle"

No i wont as i dont think it was Farke's subs that changed the game. Our subs killed our control and momentum. As ive said elsewhere i love TF to bits, but as per Stoke i think he got it wrong again last night.

Our subs bar JDS were pretty much like for like.

 

[Ealing Bee]

Lifted from a Norwich fans' site:

 

[Mr Cynical]

We played really well in spells especially last 25 of fiirst half but let’s not get carried away that Norwich were anything that special....at the moment we have mid table written all over us....when we get norgaard back it might change but there’s no goal threat from midfield unless jds has the ball...he needs to rest canos ASAP and marcondes when Baptiste is fit....then things might improve

Norwich were excellent, what are you on?? They looked really strong on the ball and moved the ball really well in and around the box. They got so many players forward you thought there must be massive holes but the minute we got forward they had 3 players back on Mbuemo. Quality side, well drilled, v good footballers and a clever manager. Will be right up there at the end of the season..

 

[Stander]

Jensen and Mads were class tonight. Lets not forget the positives.

I don't know what that means. I was just wondering where you plucked the idea from. On what you based the opinion. What inside info you had on Brian Reimer.

My comment, was generated by the strong reaction against Frank, after this game, by several posters; I was proposing a middle way- it occurred to me, that Frank ( I sympathise with his linguistic challenges), is akin to a broken record with his post-match analysing; it has become so bland, pc and stultifying, that I cannot watch 2 mins 30 secs of the stuff.
Smith was at a dead end at BFC; he was never going to achieve promotion here, but seems to have really pushed on, at AV, with at least a duo of assistants, to give input and advice on the touchline; Frank seems to ride solo and he may need some fresh ideas, otherwise it will be Championship, forever, I think.

 

[bwfc]

Spot on Gee Bee , good performance. We are nailed on for top 6 , better if we get the team back to full strength.

COYR

I agree with you Top 6 is highly likely but that is not the target from the people at the top. The smartodds model has Brentford as the best in the league. Make no mistake about it, Top 2 is the objective.

 

[ruislip bee]

Think in 2 out of the last 3 games weve actually played quite well and the bad 1 was down to the formation. Things are looking up imo.
One slight concern.. our marking on crosses seems non existent at times.

I've noticed that free kicks into our box we leave the man their far right unmarked. Why?

 

[Kingston Bee]

Should 'have won not 'of'

As I keep saying on here, should of's don't count.

 

[Kingston Bee]

My comment, was generated by the strong reaction against Frank, after this game, by several posters; I was proposing a middle way- it occurred to me, that Frank ( I sympathise with his linguistic challenges), is akin to a broken record with his post-match analysing; it has become so bland, pc and stultifying, that I cannot watch 2 mins 30 secs of the stuff.
Smith was at a dead end at BFC; he was never going to achieve promotion here, but seems to have really pushed on, at AV, with at least a duo of assistants, to give input and advice on the touchline; Frank seems to ride solo and he may need some fresh ideas, otherwise it will be Championship, forever, I think.

Whatever we think of Frank, he messed up last night. Dress it up how you like but it was his decision making that cost us 2 points. I like him a lot, and 1 game does not make him a bad manager, but he must own up and learn from his mistakes, that is all I ask.

 

[ruislip bee]

Whatever we think of Frank, he messed up last night. Dress it up how you like but it was his decision making that cost us 2 points. I like him a lot, and 1 game does not make him a bad manager, but he must own up and learn from his mistakes, that is all I ask.

Dont disagree at all. But things could be worse. Have you looked at the Rara sites. Warbs is doomed. They dont like Mr Barbet much either. Both doing a great job. I think he was captain last night too!

 

[Stander]

Dont disagree at all. But things could be worse. Have you looked at the Rara sites. Warbs is doomed. They dont like Mr Barbet much either. Both doing a great job. I think he was captain last night too!

He was fatally damaged, psychologically, by his treatment by Benham

 

[Beat Poet]

should of's don't count.

Yeah, but it might of if he had of said "should have".

 

[ruislip bee]

He was fatally damaged, psychologically, by his treatment by Benham

What, explain. He's was obviously not good enough as he is now demonstrating very well. And I liked the bloke.

 

[HaylingBee74]

So they were subbing him based on games played and games to come. For me he wasnt off the pace and didnt look knackered.

Concentrate on the game in hand TF.

On that basis for bringing off JDS it is surprising that Rico wasnt hooked off too

 

[Untouchable]

He was fatally damaged, psychologically, by his treatment by Benham

This is a piss take right?

 

[Banana]

Lifted from a Norwich fans' site:

It's originally from the excellent @experimental361 twitter account.

 

[Banana]

This is a piss take right?

It may or may not be, but it's not a topic for debate in this thread.

 

[jlove]

This is a piss take right?

Didn't you hear the story of his beatification at the Vatican but a two-footed challenge by Matthew in a knock-about at Jersey Road and he missed his 'plane?