Post Match Thread Brentford 2-4 Preston North End

BFC1997

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Most concerning result for ages. Since Brian Riemer came in, we simply don’t concede more that 1 or 2 in a match. Today was 4....

There were some mitigating circumstances. For various reasons (injury, fitness, transfer speculation) Roerslev, Goode, Benrahma, Ghoddos, Nørgaard, Henry, Raya, Baptiste, Dervisoglu were all out of action for all or most of the game. Some big players in that list.

Hopefully the team will be more settled after the break. If Nørgaard injury is longer term, hopefully Janelt addresses that issue.

However, bigger concern for me was the performances of Dalsgaard and Jansson. The leaders and bedrock in our defence last season. Not ready to fully write them off for the season, but on what I’ve seen this season they don’t look near the same players this year. We have a ready made replacement for Jansson in the squad already (Goode) but we probably need a new right back.

Great to see Toney get some goals, along with Dasilva’s performance they were probably the only real positives.

Referee performance was rubbish but that obviously didn’t make a difference to the result.
 

Mr Cynical

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Positives: Two great goals from Toney. Josh Da Silva.

Negatives.. Everything else.

Defence was a shambles, we totally lost our shape after their first goal went in. Haven't seen us collapse like that since the dark days after Smith left and Rob Rowan died. Dalsgaard looks shot. Pontus looks like he wished he'd stayed at Leeds, Pinnock was far from his best. Daniels sat on his line. Thompson started well but you could see his confidence draining out of him as the game wore on. Midfield didn't do enough once Norgaard went off and our wingers neither worked back nor caused any problems going forward. Pretty disastrous stuff. We looked knackered too like it was an end of season game. Ghoddos looks well short of fitness so don't expect too much from him too soon. Said is prob off too. All a bit depressing..
 

bg bee

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Preston did to us exactly what Barnsley did last season and we don’t seem to be able to deal with the press. There were too many below par performances from a number of players today and we must credit Preston for a thoroughly disciplined and consistent display.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Preston did to us exactly what Barnsley did last season and we don’t seem to be able to deal with the press. There were too many below par performances from a number of players today and we must credit Preston for a thoroughly disciplined and consistent display.
In fairness, I thought we stumbled upon a way to play against them in the first half and came in 2-0 ahead, with them not having a meaningful attempt on goal. Thomas was clearly not happy with the way we played and decided to start the second half more assertively/expansively. We looked threatening... then got picked off. Naïve from Thomas, I'm afraid. Unusually naïve. Changed his tactics and got suckered in the same way we had suckered them in the first half. Bizarre, when we're 2 up. If it ain't broke...
 

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Raya, Rico, Norgaard (forced off early), Benrahma (came on too late). Quite a quartet to not be available today for one reason or another. Awful result, especially being 2 nil up, but I'll wait until a few repeat performances after the international break before hitting panic mode.
 
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BFC1997

BFC1997

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Preston did to us exactly what Barnsley did last season and we don’t seem to be able to deal with the press. There were too many below par performances from a number of players today and we must credit Preston for a thoroughly disciplined and consistent display.
Such a simple analysis to say “we can’t deal with the press”.

First half, we invited them onto us, defended well and let them run themselves into the ground chasing us down. We set traps and picked them off on the counter.

It was shocking defending in the box which cost us big time here in the second half.
 

alexcavell

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Really really poor, even when we were 2-0 up. I was concerned by our performance at Birmingham, and this was obviously much worse - a capitulation we haven't seen since the away games when Frank first took over.

There's a different type of pressure on us this year, but today was a lack of quality as much as a lack of mental focus. Hopefully we will find our feet soon, like we did after some abject performances at the start of the 13/14 season (Bradford, Stevenage, even Tranmere though we somehow won).

My assessment of today's team:

Daniels - Raya is the better keeper, so if he's fit he should have started. This isn't like when Daniels deserved to keep his place when Bentley was dropping the ball every other game.

Dalsgaard - Back to his old ways of losing his head when the going gets tough.
Jansson - What's happened to him? Looked completely disinterested and the combination with Dalsgaard is a real weakness. MBS is pushing for his place.
Pinnock - Not his best game, but thought he was one of our better players.
Thompson - Not ready, decent footballer but needs a loan spell to get used to league football.

Norgaard - We got lucky with him playing almost every game last season, and having a proper back-up in Mokotjo. Big loss today, hopefully not for long.
Dasilva - Our best player, good to see him keep going when others were struggling around him.
Emiliano - The fact that neither he nor Jensen could nail down a place at the end of the last season suggests that neither of them is quite good enough to be a regular starter. It obviously hasn't helped that Baptiste can't seem to stay fit to provide an alternative. I like Emiliano, but wouldn't want to rely on him starting most games unfortunately.
Jensen - See above, with the added comment that Mathias isn't a holding midfielder. I'd have put Dasilva in that position once we conceded the first goal - we'd have missed Josh going forwards, but could have used his presence to stop the one-way flow towards our goal.

Mbeumo - Really poor today, and he's sadly had more bad games than good recently. It's easy to forget how young he is, and we probably didn't expect him to play as many games as he did last season. He needs some time out of the team once Ghoddos is up to speed and we know Benrahma's future.
Canos - I thought he did OK today, and I was surprised when he was taken off instead of Mbeumo. But I wonder sometimes with Sergi how well he fits into the overall machine of the team, and of course his end product isn't at the same level as the BMW.
Toney - Great that he got off the mark in open play, and 2 very well taken strikes. Like my comment on Sergi, he still needs to gel into the team and should cut out the silly offsides, but some really positive signs today.
 

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Looked tired after intensity of Thursday. No real defensive midfield screen after Norgard went off. Hopefully just a one off.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Such a simple analysis to say “we can’t deal with the press”.

First half, we invited them onto us, defended well and let them run themselves into the ground chasing us down. We set traps and picked them off on the counter.

It was shocking defending in the box which cost us big time here in the second half.
Yes. As I said... we had worked them out in the first half, then decided to give them the opportunity to return the favour in the second.

In terms of defending, poor as we were, Christian usually bails us out by mopping up. May well have cleared the loose ball for their first. (Daniels thought about coming but changed his mind when he saw Pontus was favourite against his man.)
 

greenshoots

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Norgaard going off was pivotal for me. Seemed to loose our shape completely. TBF we weren't at our best even before that moment.
 

Stander

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Really really poor, even when we were 2-0 up. I was concerned by our performance at Birmingham, and this was obviously much worse - a capitulation we haven't seen since the away games when Frank first took over.

There's a different type of pressure on us this year, but today was a lack of quality as much as a lack of mental focus. Hopefully we will find our feet soon, like we did after some abject performances at the start of the 13/14 season (Bradford, Stevenage, even Tranmere though we somehow won).

My assessment of today's team:

Daniels - Raya is the better keeper, so if he's fit he should have started. This isn't like when Daniels deserved to keep his place when Bentley was dropping the ball every other game.

Dalsgaard - Back to his old ways of losing his head when the going gets tough.
Jansson - What's happened to him? Looked completely disinterested and the combination with Dalsgaard is a real weakness. MBS is pushing for his place.
Pinnock - Not his best game, but thought he was one of our better players.
Thompson - Not ready, decent footballer but needs a loan spell to get used to league football.

Norgaard - We got lucky with him playing almost every game last season, and having a proper back-up in Mokotjo. Big loss today, hopefully not for long.
Dasilva - Our best player, good to see him keep going when others were struggling around him.
Emiliano - The fact that neither he nor Jensen could nail down a place at the end of the last season suggests that neither of them is quite good enough to be a regular starter. It obviously hasn't helped that Baptiste can't seem to stay fit to provide an alternative. I like Emiliano, but wouldn't want to rely on him starting most games unfortunately.
Jensen - See above, with the added comment that Mathias isn't a holding midfielder. I'd have put Dasilva in that position once we conceded the first goal - we'd have missed Josh going forwards, but could have used his presence to stop the one-way flow towards our goal.

Mbeumo - Really poor today, and he's sadly had more bad games than good recently. It's easy to forget how young he is, and we probably didn't expect him to play as many games as he did last season. He needs some time out of the team once Ghoddos is up to speed and we know Benrahma's future.
Canos - I thought he did OK today, and I was surprised when he was taken off instead of Mbeumo. But I wonder sometimes with Sergi how well he fits into the overall machine of the team, and of course his end product isn't at the same level as the BMW.
Toney - Great that he got off the mark in open play, and 2 very well taken strikes. Like my comment on Sergi, he still needs to gel into the team and should cut out the silly offsides, but some really positive signs today.
Very thoughtful assessment of the game; what a pity that the team didn't turn up in three of the last four games, at the denouement of last season.. tragic.
 

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Well it's a long time since we leaked goals like that. Worrying to see, but for a bit of perspective, it's one bad game and everyone can have them - I remember Barnsley putting 5 past Fulham last season.

However, it all stemmed from Norgaard going off. So many of us have cried out for so long now to have a player or two with more steel in midfield; players that get the ball back, don't give it away under pressure and then make good use of it. Once the only player we have who is really good at that went off, we were exposed. Jensen came on as his replacement, which is never like for like in a million years. And any midfield with Jensen and Marcondes in it is never going to be any good against a battling, pressing side. For all our ball playing talent, it's useless if you constantly lose the ball/give it away.

I do hope Vitaly is going to be the type of player we need described above, because it is so well documented now that teams know how to play us. Perfect proof today. Oh, and TF now has the excuse he needs to put Raya back as first choice.

A very poor day at the office.
 

Silly Hat

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At least we’re not Man Utd playing Spurs at the moment.

That is all.
 

unBEEliveable

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A train wreck of a second half surrounded by the railway lines at Lionel Road, should have been a gritty hard earned win with a professional performance in the second half. You can't help but be disappointed with the start we have had to the season in the league and just have to hope another slow start won't come back to haunt us.

Toney and Josh Dasilva the only real positives and it's good for the squad that we now have a break but not for us fans who have to stew over it till the Coventry game!
 

mhead bee

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Preston did to us exactly what Barnsley did last season and we don’t seem to be able to deal with the press. There were too many below par performances from a number of players today and we must credit Preston for a thoroughly disciplined and consistent display.
So now we can’t deal with the press or the two banks of 5, is there anything left we can deal with?

From 20 mins onwards it was clear we were second best all over the middle.

The counter attack worked well with the two goals and another JDS shot but PNE controlled the midfield without crating much.

As soon as out counter attacks became sloppy, poor passing in the final third and the full backs turning onwards and going back before the long hoof you could see we were backing into a corner.

CN going off and putting a non tackler in there handed PNE the midfield and you knew it was going to be a case of hanging on and booting it clear until we got to 65 minutes.

it is a shame that PNE scored their 2nd and 3rd before the 65th minute become we needed to change something and as we know it is against the law to make subs before them no matter how loud the fans scream at their lap tops as the inevitable unfolds.

The players who were struggling were the same ones who gave away sloppy passes that led to the goals and the back 4 fell apart each time.

Finally we made the subs but they weren’t really any help as it was the CM that was the issue not the attack flair players.

it was a good job it ended when it did as an embarrassing **** fest could have been utter humiliation as only one team looked like scoring,

2 weeks to get CN, Baptiste and Rico fit and get the new chap and ghoddos up to speed.

Then can we start the best team, raya, CN, ghoddos and hopefully SB. Sergi was ok first half and is a great impact sub.
 

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We have every chance of consigning this this poor performance to history and pushing on, but we should face facts. This has been a generally poor start to the season. Draw at home to a League 1 side in a friendly,draw at home to Wycombe in the Carabaro cup and then an away defeat in our first league game. Not a great start. Then though, we got excellent wins against Huddersfield and Southampton and a decent draw away at WBA before a bit of a disappointing draw at Millwall. All seemed well with the win at Fulham, but then came today. Including the friendly, thats 3 wins, 3 draws and 3 defeats. Inconsistency is the problem. Just like last season. Nothing has changed. Two league defeats already and 14, as per last year is far too many, we need less than 10 over 46 games, so 2 in 4 is not great. Mind you we got our highest league finish for 73 years last year and we already have our best League cup run ever this season so its not all doom and gloom. Can we get the consistency to stay right up there? Have we got the depth of players to perform consistently better and at a high level over a season. Not yet is my view, though some will develop, hopefully fast enough to get us where we need to be in the very short term.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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A train wreck of a second half surrounded by the railway lines at Lionel Road, should have been a gritty hard earned win with a professional performance in the second half. You can't help but be disappointed with the start we have had to the season in the league and just have to hope another slow start won't come back to haunt us.

Toney and Josh Dasilva the only real positives and it's good for the squad that we now have a break but not for us fans who have to stew over it till the Coventry game!
See what you did there. Back to the training ground. No idea why I'm making crap jokes at the moment.
 

Stander

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At least we have two weeks to get both Janelt and Ghoddos fitter and Norgaard and Henry fit.
Well it's a long time since we leaked goals like that. Worrying to see, but for a bit of perspective, it's one bad game and everyone can have them - I remember Barnsley putting 5 past Fulham last season.

However, it all stemmed from Norgaard going off. So many of us have cried out for so long now to have a player or two with more steel in midfield; players that get the ball back, don't give it away under pressure and then make good use of it. Once the only player we have who is really good at that went off, we were exposed. Jensen came on as his replacement, which is never like for like in a million years. And any midfield with Jensen and Marcondes in it is never going to be any good against a battling, pressing side. For all our ball playing talent, it's useless if you constantly lose the ball/give it away.

I do hope Vitaly is going to be the type of player we need described above, because it is so well documented now that teams know how to play us. Perfect proof today. Oh, and TF now has the excuse he needs to put Raya back as first choice.

A very poor day at the office.
Yes, powderpuff midfield, after CN went off; the new lad is said to be combative, but he comes from division two Bundesliga, so for him to be effective here, in short order, would be miraculous. But good luck.
Need more thoughtful, steely players; intelligent leaders, not mr ink arm, vastly overrated as a captain.
 

Balders Bee

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Yes, powderpuff midfield, after CN went off; the new lad is said to be combative, but he comes from division two Bundesliga, so for him to be effective here, in short order, would be miraculous. But good luck.
Need more thoughtful, steely players; intelligent leaders, not mr ink arm, vastly overrated as a captain.
Both Dalsgaard and Pontus were poor today but not sure about the unnecessary dig at the latter. He hasn't been at his best this season but no way would I describe him as overrated as our Captain. This is the same bloke who led the miserly defence last season. He's been an excellent player for us and if he's having a blip of form it's just that for me.

The defence were poor but Jansen and EM were absolutely not existent in the middle of the pitch and poor old JDS couldn't do it all. Once again poor Canos was hooked when for me he was doing twice as much as Mbeumo. Toney showed what he can do given the right service and was desperately unlucky to be on the losing side. Let's hope Norgaard's injury isn't serious because -if we didn't already know it- he proved he is the glue in this team in his absence when he went off.

No doubt Raya will be back in for Luke Daniels whom I feel sorry for given that those in front of him ran up the white flag in that second 45 today. As abject a 2nd half as I can remember in a long time.
 
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Robi Bee

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I've always been a massive Noordgard fan to the point when I posted I thought he was the most important player in the squad. But I didn't expct us to fold the moment he gets injured. A really poor capitulation. the space and lack of pressing in the midfield when he went off was there for all to see.
We are, probably, the best team in this league - but only when we put out our absolute best 11, fit and rested. But we can't do that Sat-Tues Sat-Tus for 6 months, no matter how good the rest and recovery. What today shows is out complete lack of strength in depth. Without 2 or 3 key players, we are going to struggle.
Jensen - technically very good, but cant or won't tackle and prone to injury, Can only play when CN is fit
Thompson - nowhere near Henry's standards. B team
Marcondes - bench at best. Why does TF persist with him?
Canos - we all love him but can't deliver over the 9o minutes. Bench

A quick word on Pontus. Best CB in the division? Very possibly, but I suspect his head is prone to go when things aren't going so well. Today was crying out for stronger leadership.
 
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Nada Bee

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Can’t really blame it on just Norgaard getting injured.
The very same midfield 3 ran over Fulham just 3 days earlier.
It was a poor team performance all round. I would prefer Fosu at right back moving forward if Henrik is going to serve up that kind of performance again.
Also Jansson had his worse game in a Bees shirt.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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yes that was weird - PNE got the ball and we were all out of position...strange
It's almost as if we are playing to the cameras to show off just how imaginative/outside the box/counterintuitive etc. (basically clever) we are. Nearly slipped on our own banana skin.
 

Beefletch

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For me the writing was on the wall once Norgaard had to go off, despite going in at HT 2 up.He is pivotal in the DM role and to be brutally honest Da Silva aside , Marcondes & Jensen are just not competitive or combative enough.
What really concerns me though is that as against Barnsley , we had no answer to the high press,the midfield was conspicuous by its absence and we rarely won second balls resulting in their keeper not having a save to make in second half. Indeed the gap between or defence & attack meant we had no cohesion and were completely overrun in midfield.
Getting Raya & Rico back will help but there were plenty of non performers out there this afternoon that need to take a look at themselves with only Toney & Da Silva emerging with any credit .
The coaching staff too have to wake up & quickly to the fact that they have to find an answer to teams that pack their midfield, press high and compete for second balls otherwise we will not be as successful as we all hope.
 

Stander

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Poor striated Frank, says he will retire to bed , "haunted" by today's game
 

Beeswaxnees

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I've always been a massive Noordgard fan to the point when I posted I thought he was the most important player in the squad. But I didn't expct us to fold the moment he gets injured. A really poor capitulation. the space and lack of pressing in the midfield when he went off was there for all to see.
We are, probably, the best team in this league - but only when we put out our absolute best 11, fit and rested. But we can't do that Sat-Tues Sat-Tus for 6 months, no matter how good the rest and recovery. What today shows is out complete lack of strength in depth. Without 2 or 3 key players, we are going to struggle.
Jensen - technically very good, but cant or won't tackle and prone to injury, Can only play when CN is fit
Thompson - nowhere near Henry's standards. B team
Marcondes - bench at best. Why does TF persist with him?
Canos - we all love him but can't deliver over the 9o minutes. Bench

A quick word on Pontus. Best CB in the division? Very possibly, but I suspect his head is prone to go when things aren't going so well. Today was crying out for stronger leadership.
A bit harsh on some, I thought Thompson played ok until he ran out of steam which is understandably due to him playing midweek and last weekend which he has never done before. Canos also had a ok game I thought, but also ran out of steam especially when PNE dominated the ball and we where chasing. We all seen what happened when Norgaard came off, we urgently need backup for him, hopefully Vitaly Janelt will be that player, but I am worried how long it will take him to get up to speed with the Championship.
 

Beat Poet

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I feel the League Cup run, while it's good for rotation and the record books, has had an adverse effect at the moment as the lineup has been chopped and changed and the league XI hasn't settled as it should have. Now that we won't play another LC match for at least two months, at least it'll give the squad time to settle.
 

aslan

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Feel Benrahma has to stay. Jury very much out on Canos
 

Voice from the Braemar

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were 2 up at h/t without actually deserving to be which was lovely but a total collapse 2nd half with only JDS and Toney coming out of the game with anything to be happy about......the rest and tf need to look at where it all went wrong and then come to the decision that jensen, mbeumo, macondes and canos should never be in the same team all together as its a recipe for disaster for any team who knows how to bully us in midfield and completely take over a game.......the most worrying thing for me was that pontus looked absolutely rubbish today and ive never ever said a bad word against him in the whole time hes been here.......and that is fkin worrying for me and him :(

for me, it looks like we wont be anywhere near the top 2 this season (and god knows who the top 2 will be as it could be anyone) as our midfield is too weak once we get injuries.......id like to see a proper mccormack type battling midfielder in who will snap at people as at the moment its all too nice and footbally.....to get out of this division we need someone in who will die for the cause and i cant see jensen or macondes doing that lol lol preston were decent and will be up there so fair play to them for seeing our many weaknesses and exploiting em........it certainly shows how sh*t fulham are thats for sure ;)
 

liverbee

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I’m gutted. We’re all gutted. Look at it this way though. Leicester losing 3-0 at home. M Utd losing 5-1 at home.
 

Norfolk Bee

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Wife and grandson in shock at 4 goals conceded in 18 minutes. Well done to PNE. The championship eh!
 

tw2bee

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Powderpuff performance. Even when we were ahead I wouldn’t have said it was deserved.
However I believe this won’t happen again. This could be exactly what we need.
 

magicbees

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Im very disapointed in the Jenson/Marcondes situation, i felt its the one area where we needed an improvement from last season other than the replacements for Ollie and Said. But having watched the games this season I think we need a Right Back very badly.
 

keefor

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Perhaps some posters will be a little more realistic now about Brentford?

In the last 5 seasons about 90 points will get a team automatically promoted, that means getting about 66% of all available points.
So far this season Brentford have been getting about 33% of all available points. Based on this 'form' we are far more likely to face relegation rather than automatic promotion.

Brentford have too many players that can be 'good' but are too inconsistent, this leads to arguments about players but also to 'dropping' points to teams that we should not be if we are to achieve an automatic promotion place.

The transfer policy at BFC is perfectly understandable but we have to appreciate that a consequence of that is losing more consistent players and gaining those who at present are not consistent enough to gain promotion.
 

Gazza Bee

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Perhaps some posters will be a little more realistic now about Brentford?

In the last 5 seasons about 90 points will get a team automatically promoted, that means getting about 66% of all available points.
So far this season Brentford have been getting about 33% of all available points. Based on this 'form' we are far more likely to face relegation rather than automatic promotion.

Brentford have too many players that can be 'good' but are too inconsistent, this leads to arguments about players but also to 'dropping' points to teams that we should not be if we are to achieve an automatic promotion place.

The transfer policy at BFC is perfectly understandable but we have to appreciate that a consequence of that is losing more consistent players and gaining those who at present are not consistent enough to gain promotion.
We had 12 points after 11 games last season and should have got promoted. One bad game wont define our season but we need our strongest 11 in the pitch to have any chance of top 2
 

Delbee

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If I was Thomas Frank at the next training morning I would make them all sit and watch today’s game. Then ask them if they are proud of what they did in today’s match
 

alexcavell

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Perhaps some posters will be a little more realistic now about Brentford?

In the last 5 seasons about 90 points will get a team automatically promoted, that means getting about 66% of all available points.
So far this season Brentford have been getting about 33% of all available points. Based on this 'form' we are far more likely to face relegation rather than automatic promotion.

Brentford have too many players that can be 'good' but are too inconsistent, this leads to arguments about players but also to 'dropping' points to teams that we should not be if we are to achieve an automatic promotion place.

The transfer policy at BFC is perfectly understandable but we have to appreciate that a consequence of that is losing more consistent players and gaining those who at present are not consistent enough to gain promotion.
West Brom got promoted after losing Gayle, Rodriguez and Barnes from the previous season. I'm confident we can bring in decent replacements, and the rest of the team should be able to grow and become more consistent with an extra year's experience too. But every point is valuable, and we need to stick today's performance on the wall as a reminder that it can never happen again.
 

grutter

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We had 12 points after 11 games last season and should have got promoted. One bad game wont define our season but we need our strongest 11 in the pitch to have any chance of top 2
Sorry, but this is a stupid point that gets made again and again. This season, more than any other, is not going to be about the best 11 on the pitch, as it's simply impossible to achieve with 2 games a week. Even if you did put the best 11 out there, they wouldn't be the best for that long, as they'd be knackered after a few weeks of that.

It'll be about the best squad and the ability of those who wouldn't normally be in the best 11 to be almost as good and slip in and out of the team effortlessly. Thomas's job is to know who those people are. Today was about the inability of a midfield to get hold of a game where we are pressed and pressured tight, as it has been for a number of games last season too. The difference today was we leaked goals, as our best combative midfielder went off.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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A bit harsh on some, I thought Thompson played ok until he ran out of steam which is understandably due to him playing midweek and last weekend which he has never done before. Canos also had a ok game I thought, but also ran out of steam especially when PNE dominated the ball and we where chasing. We all seen what happened when Norgaard came off, we urgently need backup for him, hopefully Vitaly Janelt will be that player, but I am worried how long it will take him to get up to speed with the Championship.
Some way away according to Phil Giles
 

Bookham Bee

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What a lack lustre performance second half.Pending Internationals affecting the game.The Coventry game will be have a big significance on the way ahead.Thomas Frank and his team have a fortnight to rattle a few cages and get the team back on track.
 

shouldbee

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been too many of them recently unfortunately.............needs to change..........1 league win in the last 7 games

[/QUOTE
Yes that's not acceptable for a club that has serious ambitions to get to the PL. No point in saying any more. I was tempted to post before kick-off as I felt that TF had got the team selection wrong, my fears were proved right.
 

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