Post Match Thread Brentford 2-4 Preston North End

[Gazza Bee]

Sorry, but this is a stupid point that gets made again and again. This season, more than any other, is not going to be about the best 11 on the pitch, as it's simply impossible to achieve with 2 games a week. Even if you did put the best 11 out there, they wouldn't be the best for that long, as they'd be knackered after a few weeks of that.

It'll be about the best squad and the ability of those who wouldn't normally be in the best 11 to be almost as good and slip in and out of the team effortlessly. Thomas's job is to know who those people are. Today was about the inability of a midfield to get hold of a game where we are pressed and pressured tight, as it has been for a number of games last season too. The difference today was we leaked goals, as our best combative midfielder went off.

It gets made again and again for a reason lol Henry and Watkins played every game last season so it isnt such a big ask. The midfield went AWOL after Norgaard went off injured which is worrying but hopefully today was a one off.

 

[Doovster]

Perhaps some posters will be a little more realistic now about Brentford?

In the last 5 seasons about 90 points will get a team automatically promoted, that means getting about 66% of all available points.
So far this season Brentford have been getting about 33% of all available points. Based on this 'form' we are far more likely to face relegation rather than automatic promotion.

Brentford have too many players that can be 'good' but are too inconsistent, this leads to arguments about players but also to 'dropping' points to teams that we should not be if we are to achieve an automatic promotion place.

The transfer policy at BFC is perfectly understandable but we have to appreciate that a consequence of that is losing more consistent players and gaining those who at present are not consistent enough to gain promotion.

The only player of note we've lost is Oli and he's been replaced by a more than adequate Toney.

How does your argument back up the midfield performance or defensive performance from players who were all here last season. The worst culprits today were Pontus, Dalsgaard, Jensen and Marcondes. Throw in a spluttering Mbeumo and we've got much to work on, none of which can be blamed on inconsistencies due to transfer policy.

 

[shouldbee]

I bloody hope so

I feel sorry for Coventry. They are going to get spanked.

Not if Frank picks the same team they won't !

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

Perhaps we should have brought Mads on and gone back 3/5
I feel sorry for the poor sod who had got 5 on super 6 and had us to win 3-0, at 2-0 he must have thought he was in with a shout
£1 Million ouch!

 

[magicbees]

Feel Benrahma has to stay. Jury very much out on Canos

I would also add Bryan to Canos has been very poor since the return of football in June. Still hoping for a couple of additions but wont expect any.

 

[grutter]

It gets made again and again for a reason lol Henry and Watkins played every game last season so it isnt such a big ask. The midfield went AWOL after Norgaard went off injured which is worrying but hopefully today was a one off.

That's 2 players. You can add Raya, which is 3. You and others want the best 11 out every game, which can't be done. That's why it is a stupid point.

 

[keefor]

We had 12 points after 11 games last season and should have got promoted. One bad game wont define our season but we need our strongest 11 in the pitch to have any chance of top 2

Last season the team getting the 2nd auto place did so with 83 points. Prior to that no team in the previous 5 seasons achieved 2nd place with fewer than 89 points. So despite how Brentford went on to perform in the latter part of the season, they still weren't consistent enough to get 'top 2' despite it being far easier to achieve that position.

If Brentford were on course (i.e. picking up 2/3rds of available points) for an automatic place despite todays result, I'd tend to agree with your "one bad game" however I suspect that BFC are not going to be consistent enough and will spend the closing part of the season looking at play-off spots.

 

[beetee]

I dont think we've played well in any of our league games so far tbh.... We aren't controlling games enough.

 

[Gazza Bee]

That's 2 players. You can add Raya, which is 3. You and others want the best 11 out every game, which can't be done. That's why it is a stupid point.

I probably didnt express myself that well - my point was that if you have your best players available they have to start i.e. Said

 

[Eieieio]

Just an off day. I am convinced we will come back strongly next time out.

 

[grutter]

I probably didnt express myself that well - my point was that if you have your best players available they have to start i.e. Said

Okay, but you said yourself the midfield went AWOL after Norgaard went off and we can agree on that. Not starting with Benrahma isn't why we lost that game. The point is we don't have someone as good as Norgaard if he is not available and more people are realising that Marcondes and Jensen are not good enough against teams that play a certain way. Not bashing Thomas, but he doesn't seem to have realised it.

 

[mhead bee]

Feel Benrahma has to stay. Jury very much out on Canos

jury is out on canos? They have been out a long time, about 4 years I think.

 

[Gazza Bee]

Okay, but you said yourself the midfield went AWOL after Norgaard went off and we can agree on that. Not starting with Benrahma isn't why we lost that game. The point is we don't have someone as good as Norgaard if he is not available and more people are realising that Marcondes and Jensen are not good enough against teams that play a certain way. Not bashing Thomas, but he doesn't seem to have realised it.

Agreed - I would never play Jensen and Marcondes in the same team and it was made worse with no defensive midfielder once Norgaard went off. Hopefully 2nd half has shown Thomas the error of his ways...

 

[North Northants Bee]

Difficult to take losing that one after the first half, yes PNE had more possession and pressed well however we opened them up beautifully for the two goals and also had a couple of other chances - we were quite comfortable I thought. Then for that second half it was an absolute shocker, there seemed to be a severe lack of communication, no team spirit and the pure carelessness we had with looking after the ball was awful. Their first two goals were both caused by Sergi and Bryan giving the ball away in our own half, the midfield apart from Josh and both Canos & Bryan gave the ball away so much along with Dalsgaard, it was just unbelievable. I don't think it was a case of us being sussed out or not coping against the press as we were comfortable, it was just all mistakes nothing more nothing less. Hopefully we will just play our best team going forward, Daniels although no glaring errors is just not as good as Raya = play Raya. I won't comment on other certain players that shouldn't be in the team but hopefully this was just a bad day at the office and a one off. The harsh reality is that we were 2-0 up and threw it away, we were very weak. Please for the Cov match can we just put our best team out and hopefully forget about this match. I also can't stand their manager which makes today even worse!!!

 

[Castleview]

That was so frustrating. For a couple of seasons we've struggled against negative sides who score first then shut up shop. Today it was set up perfectly. An early goal followed by a second after half time. A normal performance would have us take control of the game, dominate possession and then pick them off at will. Preston should have been chasing shadows. Instead we went to sleep after our second goal, started giving the ball away under no real pressure and Preston went for us. I've felt for a long time on our day we're the best side in that league. Today, too many players we can normally rely on let the team down badly. It's up to Mr Frank to gee them up again and not let complacency set in the way it did today.

 

[Banana]

Some way away according to Phil Giles

Where is he quoted?

 

[Stanley]

Lost for words, I am struggling to recall a second half collapse at home like that before.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

There is no overreaction from me, today was a gutless awful performance. Time to realise we are not as good as we think. Any player that does not give 100% should move on.

 

[TW3Bee]

What a lack lustre performance second half.

Not only the second half.

We started off ok, got the early goal, then Norgaard went off injured, and everything changed.
Preston dominated possession, without really creating anything, then we got a breakaway goal to go 2 up, and that should have been that, and with the half ending with the Preston players moaning at the ref, the result only looked like going one way.
As to what happened in the second half, it was one of the worst performances by a Brentford side in a long time.

 

[Ioweddie]

Preston were just better and wanted it more...one of those days.....only one I hope

 

[cromerbee]

We were awful even in the first half. Can usually see some positives from a defeat but not today. For me Jannson was the real worry- no leadership or inspiration. Why did it take Dalsgaard to talk to the team??
Norgaard a big worry too. If it's a long injury, we could be in trouble.

 

[Mick.C]

In truth results are all that matters to your season.

For Brentford it strangely isn’t - it’s the performance that gives the barometer to the future.

Today the post match interview showed Frank looking like a man that had left his card in the ATM by mistake.
He hadn’t a clue why it happened but it did. We have all been there.

With hindsight not playing your strongest XI on paper in defeat invites discussion.
Raya whether carrying the knee or not is buzzing with a 4 year contract and a Thursday night shut out.
Playing Daniels until he makes a mistake is safe management. He made no mistake today but 4 whistled past him. He will be the fall guy where more experienced pros in front had a no show 45.

Preston under Neil, did a job on Frank and Norgaard - a Silence of the lambs policy, silence/take out the enforcer and Brentford are lambs. Preston had hunger desire and a high press, Barnsley-esque - Struber last July with the oxygen busting press showed the way.
Our double luxury of Jensen and Marcondes midfield are no dogs of war and as the rain tipped down, we fell apart at the seams.

Toney impressed with two fine finishes. Nothing wrong there, but no Benrahma to start was as head scratching as Raya keeping his gloves dry. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Brentford got caught pants down today, out battled and out fought in the Championship, you don’t turn up and work hard you get a smack on the nose and Brentford let 4 in 20 minutes for the first time since I don’t know when.

it’s not a disaster, it’s football, but the signs are there. Results no but performance yes decide how we do things at Brentford. But today complacency poor selection and spaces between midfield and attack show the balance is not there.The championship is a dog eat dog existence, the wires will be alive that Brentford are a bit soft if you scratch past the surface.

Football behind closed doors is a bonus in a Covid stops normal things world, but the performance today revealed that nothing replaces hard work and Brentford have plenty of that to do in the next two weeks.
Frank will be ‘haunted’ he says, going to bed thinking about the performance - maybe the next training session is sitting the players in front of this video nasty to shake the tree. A few of the fringe squad got closer to breaking into the first team today by not playing - that in itself speaks volumes.

Bad day at the office - back to basics.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

That performance has been coming. Ive said it a few times that TF has us sitting deeper (which i dont like). We've pretty much given control of the ball to every team we've played so far.

The players also look knackered, i wonder if this is a result of the hard work put into the end of last season?

That is a worrying result and the passing today summed it all up.

TF got it wrong. Raya needs to start, he sets our tempo. Same with SB if hes fit, start him.

 

[Stander]

That performance has been coming

The players look knackered

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

?

 

[rodders]

I think I almost feel more down about this performance than I did about Wembley. A great start and Ivan Toney getting off the mark. Totally failed to respond tactically to Norgaards injury or the possession that Preston had for most of the game. I sent a pretend text to my brother prior to the game hoping he was watching wherever he may be , I rather hope now he was not.

 

[WARFIELD BEE]

Where is he quoted?

Can't remember, must have been around the time he signed, I didn't make it up!

 

[aslan]

jury is out on canos? They have been out a long time, about 4 years I think.

Still young, and just coming back from injury.. Personally don't think he's good enough for this level, nevermind after promotion. But stating the absolute leaves too much room for argument & sentiment, and avoidance of the glaring issue.

 

[readingbee]

I dont think we've played well in any of our league games so far tbh.... We aren't controlling games enough.

We’ve won 1 in 4 league games , says it all really.

 

[ianbees1]

I think unusual results will be the norm this year. Lack of crowds and normality etc will affect players mentality. City losing 5-2 at home to Leicester, Spurs 6-1 at United, Liverpool currently 5-1 down at Villa. They do have Ollie though......

 

[ianbees1]

Make that 5-2....

 

[TW3Bee]

Just an off day. I am convinced we will come back strongly next time out.

Just a shame we have to wait a couple of weeks to right this wrong.

 

[grepo]

At least we have two weeks to get both Janelt and Ghoddos fitter and Norgaard and Henry fit.

and Mads Roerslev?

 

[rodders]

Unfortunately it was not a wrong, Preston deserved to win.Very worrying

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

At least we’re not Man Utd playing Spurs at the moment.

That is all.

Or Liverpool! Really pleased for Watkins!

 

[favershambee]

Preston played us off the park - end of story.

 

[JANORAK]

I think unusual results will be the norm this year. Lack of crowds and normality etc will affect players mentality. City losing 5-2 at home to Leicester, Spurs 6-1 at United, Liverpool currently 5-1 down at Villa. They do have Ollie though......

Nobody told us, but we appear to have been included in the inaugural ‘Bonkers Sunday Scorelines Day’.
(-supposedly guarantees the losers a trophy by the end of the season....)

 

[Oceanbee]

A simple fact that no one wants to recognise.
Our formula brings in regular money by selling our best.

One season in the PL will bring at least £200 million extra to the club, over 3 years, even if you are relegated after one season.

Selling our best players each year has not taken us to the promised land.

Watkins now looks undervalued after his hat-trick v Liverpool. So we got £30 million or so.
Benrahma "may" go for £20+million.
So that’s £50 million. But it’s nowhere near what the PL promotion would give us, if we retained a winning team.

So after today, we once again set ourselves a catch-up task. We were today the Liverpool or Man. Utd. equivalent in the Championship.

Bad sub and timing decisions, and what is Forss doing sitting on his backside, and not being brought on.

We can’t go on selling our best players, and saying ‘next season, next season.’

Every year now, we spend the first 10 games or so integrating new players, and those early dumped points cost us so dear at the end.

Team bollicking all round for throwing away 2-0 lead.

Seems to me that currently the Carabao Cup team is the more impressive, and certainly the more hungry to prove a point, with the exception of Toney and Norgaard, who are critical in any game.
All goes to show how much "invisible" work is done by Norgaard, and how valuable he is, because as soon as he was off the pitch today, we fell apart.
Jenson came nowhere near with sloppy passing and no tackling.

Please don’t blame Daniels. If your defence opens up like Tower Bridge, it’s no wonder the Preston attack sailed through.

Time to drop a few regulars, and put in the ‘hungry’ players.

So glad I didn’t have to sit the cold and rain and watch that live.

Only consolation is that both Man. Utd and Liverpool suffered, and that it’s Watkins who will be top of tomorrow’s sport headlines!!!

 

[Freebee]

I would have sat there in the cold and rain if they'd let me tbh

 

[mhead bee]

If I was Thomas Frank at the next training morning I would make them all sit and watch today’s game. Then ask them if they are proud of what they did in today’s match

And what will that achieve?

This is a team that has beaten three premier league teams this season, it’s just one poor game FFS.

 

[Banana]

<snip>

Give it a rest. Have some belief in the best football management that we have ever had, that has resulted in the highest league position in all our living memories.

Liverpool got tonked today
Manchester United got tonked today

It happens

 

[rodders]

Am I alone in taking little comfort from complacency and platitudes?

 

[aslan]

[/B]
A simple fact that no one wants to recognise.
Our formula brings in regular money by selling our best.

One season in the PL will bring at least £200 million extra to the club, over 3 years, even if you are relegated after one season.

Selling our best players each year has not taken us to the promised land.

Watkins now looks undervalued after his hat-trick v Liverpool. So we got £30 million or so.
Benrahma "may" go for £20+million.
So that’s £50 million. But it’s nowhere near what the PL promotion would give us, if we retained a winning team.

So after today, we once again set ourselves a catch-up task. We were today the Liverpool or Man. Utd. equivalent in the Championship.

We can’t go on selling our best players, and saying ‘next season, next season.’

Every year now, we spend the first 10 games or so integrating new players, and those early dumped points cost us so dear at the end.

Brilliant post this one.
Why don't we just get promoted instead of selling players. Crazy how Benham decides at the start of each season he wants to stay in the Championship.
Unsure how a single game at Villa changes anything to Ollie's value as a Brentford player either? If we kept him the extra millions added to his value for performances in the premiership would not exist. Highest ever paid fee for a championship player, in a summer of limited spending? Have a laugh

 

[Banana]

Brilliant post this one.
Why don't we just get promoted instead of selling players. Crazy how Benham decides at the start of each season he wants to stay in the Championship.
Unsure how a single game at Villa changes anything to Ollie's value as a Brentford player either? If we kept him the extra millions added to his value for performances in the premiership would not exist. Highest ever paid fee for a championship player, in a summer of limited spending? Have a laugh

Exactly. I do wonder sometimes.

 

[jimmycisabee]

Our midfield without norgaard is lightweight. That's where the game was lost.

 

[unBEEliveable]

Am I alone in taking little comfort from complacency and platitudes?

There is no way to dress up that second half performance as anything other than abject and rubbish. However that does not mean the rest of the season has to follow that pattern, I don't believe you become a bad team over night and the squad, talent and management is there to make this a very successful season. There is still time to turn around our start to the season from a slow start to a solid start and the basis to launch another promotion push.

 

[TW3Bee]

Our midfield without norgaard is lightweight. That's where the game was lost.

Absolutely.

Game changed when he had to go off.

 

[Frothybaby]

If I was Thomas Frank at the next training morning I would make them all sit and watch today’s game. Then ask them if they are proud of what they did in today’s match

I don't think I could listen to you if you were Frank. I would consider that patronising and more likely to result in a poc in da gob.

 

[Frothybaby]

Having listened to supporters of team that play in the Europa Cup (Thhursday evening), is it possible that may have had an affect? Coupled with loosing Norgaard.

 

[Banana]

Having listened to supporters of team that play in the Europa Cup (Thhursday evening), is it possible that may have had an affect? Coupled with loosing Norgaard.

Yes because Thu...Sun is SO SO SO different from WED...SAT