Brentford and diversity

cheshirebee

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Love that’s it’s driven by the quest for competitive advantage rather than empty worthiness and virtue signalling.
 

hobbsy

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Banana

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I think we are doing "ok" with this. Next step is to get a Chairperson that isn't white, male and middle aged. ANYONE, PLEASE ANYONE 😇
 

nathanbee

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Love that’s it’s driven by the quest for competitive advantage rather than empty worthiness and virtue signalling.
My fav quote is: "If you're all the same person, all thinking the same, guess what? You're going to wake up tomorrow and you're going to all think the same again."
So obvious yet so few organisations recognise it.
 

Les Beeavinu

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I think we are doing "ok" with this. Next step is to get a Chairperson that isn't white, male and middle aged. ANYONE, PLEASE ANYONE 😇
Not sure I agree with this. White, male and middle aged is a perfectly acceptable representation so it's not essential that the Chair is different to that. It's surely about sufficient diversity in positions of influence.
 

AB

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Not sure I agree with this. White, male and middle aged is a perfectly acceptable representation so it's not essential that the Chair is different to that. It's surely about sufficient diversity in positions of influence.
It’s about the best person for the job and making it clear that that person might not fit the description of pretty much every other Chairman of every other club since forever.
 

Silly Hat

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I think we are doing "ok" with this. Next step is to get a Chairperson that isn't white, male and middle aged. ANYONE, PLEASE ANYONE 😇
Diversity is much, much more than just race and/or gender, and I’m surprised you posted the above (unless it was tongue in cheek). Socioeconomic factors determine a person‘s trajectory far more than those two characteristics - a working class ‘White’ person with no higher education and whose parents held unskilled jobs would bring a perspective different to that of, say, an Asian privately-schooled Oxbridge graduate whose parents were lawyers etc. In your scenario, the uber-privileged individual should get an additional advantage because of their race. I couldn’t disagree more.

Anyway, I thought we didn’t do politics on the GPG...
 

hairman

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I work in a school. A new employee there was sporting a Brentford badge, so I complimented him on his good taste. His reply? 'Best club in London'. Things like this prove it. Not necessarily best team but definitely best club. In London and probably elsewhere too.
 

stevil

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I work in a school. A new employee there was sporting a Brentford badge, so I complimented him on his good taste. His reply? 'Best club in London'. Things like this prove it. Not necessarily best team but definitely best club. In London and probably elsewhere too.
By far the greatest club the world has ever seen
 

gbems92

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In an industry of executives who are often accused of being "pale, male and stale", Monique Choudhuri - a leadership, recruitment and inclusion expert - sits on the Brentford board.

I get diversity needs to be addressed but is coming up with catchy racist jingles aimed at middle aged white men really going to solve the problem? Seems counter productive. P. S im not a middle aged white man with any hope of holding influence in a boardroom.
 

Voice from the Braemar

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Close thread....it’s racist ageist and sexist...or is that all ok on here thesedays ??? Times have defo changed with what’s allowed on here and what’s not
 

BFCFTW

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In an industry of executives who are often accused of being "pale, male and stale", Monique Choudhuri - a leadership, recruitment and inclusion expert - sits on the Brentford board.

I get diversity needs to be addressed but is coming up with catchy racist jingles aimed at middle aged white men really going to solve the problem? Seems counter productive. P. S im not a middle aged white man with any hope of holding influence in a boardroom.
Great article and builds on a really good forum run by the club last week on race in football. Not to get too pedantic with you gbems (no one likes a pedant), but the phrase 'pale, stale and male' has been around for donkeys' years in racial equality circles and I don't think it technically qualifies as a jingle (unless Monique's come up with a tune for it).

As it's aimed at 'punching up' at people in power who don't want to share it, I've never seen it as anything other than stating the obvious rather than a divisive phrase tbh
 

marvelous007

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Black players are very well represented in this country, the real problem with the lack of diversity is that their are no (male) professional footballers who are openly gay, and that is almost statistically impossible. But football does not really want to discuss it.
 
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liverbee

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Didn't Captain Bates fulfil the "B" part of LGBT? Or was I not paying close enough attention?
I think conscious inclusiveness is a true marker of humanity and I was always impressed as a teenager, by the club's provision for blind and wheelchair bound spectators even if they might be regarded as inadequate, nowadays.
Let's be honest, we've all discriminated against particular groups at some point in our lives. It's good that the club wants to include everybody, and makes that clear.
I must admit though, it was only recently that I understood the symbolism of my dear mother making me wash my mouth out with soap, but I can't actually remember what it was for,
 

hanworthbee

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I'd rather just have the best person for the job in any job that's going regardless of who they are etc etc
 

pompeybee

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I'd rather just have the best person for the job in any job that's going regardless of who they are etc etc
I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But it could just be that discrimination, even if unconscious, is stopping it happening. It would be quite surprising if all the best people happened to be straight white males.
 

Guildford Bee

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I'd rather just have the best person for the job in any job that's going regardless of who they are etc etc
Yes. And the whole point of equality is ensuring that the best person for the job has the opportunity to stake their claim. Because that person just might not be a white middle-aged male.
 

jlove

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While all the points regarding diversity are valid and relevant (and I believe will require necessary education and communication for generations to come), the most interesting thing regarding BFC specifically is that the focus on diversity is driven by the belief that it gives a better competitive advantage, not that it is because of some sort of quota requirement or just being politically correct. That positive must erase all the negatives.
 

westwing

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Black players are very well represented in this country, the real problem with the lack of diversity is that their are no (male) professional footballers who are openly gay, and that is almost statistically impossible. But football does not really want to discuss it.
Just like many Football Clubs didn't want to discuss Child Abuse when it was happening right under their noses.
 

Banana

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The best, most able candidate, wherever, whatever, should be the mark.
Not really.

Just like the club are practicing, the collective may be better suited by diversifying the backgrounds of its employees. So it is not only the individual skills of the candidate that counts, but how the company/club become stronger.
 
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IslandBee

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While all the points regarding diversity are valid and relevant (and I believe will require necessary education and communication for generations to come), the most interesting thing regarding BFC specifically is that the focus on diversity is driven by the belief that it gives a better competitive advantage, not that it is because of some sort of quota requirement or just being politically correct. That positive must erase all the negatives.
Yes, but our belief it gives us a competitive advantage is an implicit acceptance of the the impact of prejudice and structural disadvantage elsewhere ie we pick up all the talented members of minority/disadvantaged groups that are not given a chance by others
 

Banana

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Yes, but our belief it gives us a competitive advantage is an implicit acceptance of the the impact of prejudice and structural disadvantage elsewhere ie we pick up all the talented members of minority/disadvantaged groups that are not given a chance by others
If one selects from a larger pool, then one will get better talent. Unless one believes that all people in some pools are better than all people in other pools...
 

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If one selects from a larger pool, then one will get better talent. Unless one believes that all people in some pools are better than all people in other pools...
One wants outstanding people in their field not in a pool. It's football ⚽not a swimming club. 🏊‍♀️
 

Leedsbee

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If I look at my profession of garden design which is 99% white and middle class lack of diversity is closely tied to elitism.Jobs are given to people you know,people who look like you and to people who can afford to self support while they gain a reputation. As a result innovation is rare, design is unchanging and stale. Football is in many ways a pathfinder in creating diversity in a society whose traditional elite does not want to give up their powers. You get to play in Football teams as you're the best at what you do and you can't be denied.This has been too slow working its way into the management and administrative levels of clubs but compared to other areas of life football is ahead of the curve.We can be proud of this but there is so much more to be done.
 

Neal

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Does the club ensure that it and all its suppliers pay the London Living Wage? That would sort out some societal bias against those in so-called 'less important' jobs, irrespective of age, gender, race
 

hobbsy

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Does the club ensure that it and all its suppliers pay the London Living Wage? That would sort out some societal bias against those in so-called 'less important' jobs, irrespective of age, gender, race
I think it does for all its direct employees, I'm not sure about the suppliers.

It's conversation BIAS had with Mark Devlin a while back, but as with most things, didn't really get anywhere.

I'll add to the list.
 

AB

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While all the points regarding diversity are valid and relevant (and I believe will require necessary education and communication for generations to come), the most interesting thing regarding BFC specifically is that the focus on diversity is driven by the belief that it gives a better competitive advantage, not that it is because of some sort of quota requirement or just being politically correct. That positive must erase all the negatives.
It ought to be obvious that the more you widen opportunity the higher the quality of performance you can get. That it seems not to be obvious to so many (hence the criticism of Greg Clark’s comments being an echo of Noades describing black players as lacking intelligence- who’d say that now?) is why diversity is important and a source of advantage for those who take it seriously.

Most of my senior managers are women, the EMEA head and her boss from visible ethnic minorities. A generation or so ago fewer of them would be working in the legal profession and almost all of them would at their age be in less senior positions as they’d have fallen behind while having children. They’re a lot better than a lot of my senior managers when I started out 25 or so years back who were all “male and pale” and many of whom were only politely describable as stale because if was hard to see them ever having been particularly fresh.
 

AB

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I should add, this is also very good for a lot of white men too. You, like everyone else, will have seen crappy chancers climb the ranks ahead of you. If advancement is based on merit in a more open field, sure you have more competition but those blaggers are the ones who’ll be making way, not you.
 

nathanbee

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The best, most able candidate, wherever, whatever, should be the mark.
So the question is, what and who determines "the best, most able.." etc. Is it the Uni they attended, is it their age, their ethnicity, the town/region/country they were born in? Creating diversity has to start by stripping away all forms of identity from the CV (even name). Make it about the relevant roles and a personal reference. Anything else, DoB, Uni, subject studied, grades are potential signals to bias. Give every applicant the equal opportunity of making it to that all important face to face interview.
 

Les Beeavinu

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So the question is, what and who determines "the best, most able.." etc. Is it the Uni they attended, is it their age, their ethnicity, the town/region/country they were born in? Creating diversity has to start by stripping away all forms of identity from the CV (even name). Make it about the relevant roles and a personal reference. Anything else, DoB, Uni, subject studied, grades are potential signals to bias. Give every applicant the equal opportunity of making it to that all important face to face interview.
Although interviews are a terrible barometer of someone's ability (imo)
 

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Is there any credible alternatives that are being used and have been tested to be better?
For an orchestra they made the applying musician play behind a screen. They still had a sex bias. They then made the applicants remove their shoes before walking to play.

So there are ways if you want to find them.
 

beesbees_bfc

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For an orchestra they made the applying musician play behind a screen. They still had a sex bias. They then made the applicants remove their shoes before walking to play.

So there are ways if you want to find them.
I think I heard about that and didn’t it lead to something like a 60/70% increase in female and BAME representation?

Finding it hard to think of viable methods in the ‘normal’ world (IE not in the arts)

My company (the one I work at not own) have an anonymous allocation process (no names, no DOB, no education institution names) but to CV selection but, as you rightly say, any biases that are present will still influence at interview stage so really interested if anyone’s experienced alternatives to the traditional interview that led to better diversity and/or better recruitment success.

We’ve used ‘working interviews’ before for temporary roles so essentially get them in for a three (paid) day trial but only really utilised in transactional type roles where it’s easier to tell quickly whether someone has the experience and speed required.
 

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