David Moyes

[NorthamptonBee]

I could produce pages of evidence about how many women are in top jobs, how there is more violence against women, how women still get paid 2/3 (approx) of what men get for comparable jobs, how women are portrayed in the media, how many women do the childcare and work or are single mothers compared to the number of single fathers, the list is endless....

But just occasionally the ignorant should back their ideas up with evidence.

Sexism is everywhere you said and your wife can not even wear a skirt. I stopped at those points, women are equal in most people's minds, they work in top management roles at my place and there is a Women's Community set up for them too, most of the women I work with don't get why they need a special community, a few are in it and they have healthy discussions about it's worth, perhaps you should switch firms and stop putting everyone down, also stop frightening your wife about wearing a frigging skirt because very few men are actually threatening with that happening, have you been watching Carry On Perving or something, she has a seed in her mind that she needs your help with IMO rather than kidding yourselves that the moment she walks out of the door with her legs on show that she becomes a target for the sexism that isn't actually everywhere.

 

[hughbee]

Sexism everywhere? What a crock of sh*te.....
My work's CEO? Woman
My work's MD? Woman
My clients? 11 out of 12 are women
My most senior client (Chief Marketing Officer)? Woman
Her boss (CEO)? Woman

I am sure that sexism exists in some places, but it is not everywhere

That's only evidence about your workplace.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

To me, it's a statement that was inappropriate, irrespective of who it was addressed to.

Let's try this?

If this was said to a male reporter who was trying to do his job: "It was getting a wee bit naughty at the end there so just watch yourself. You still might get a slap." would it be offensive (depending on the tone, of course)? In my view. yes.

How about this to a small person: "It was getting a wee bit naughty at the end there so just watch yourself. You still might get a slap, even though you're wee."

Or this: "It was getting a wee bit naughty at the end there so just watch yourself. You still might get a slap, even though you're gay."

Finally, if this was said to a child: "It was getting a wee bit naughty at the end there so just watch yourself. You still might get a slap, even though ye're a bairn."

To me, the offence is in the aggressive nature of the words, but I'm unsure of there being sexism.

 

[hughbee]

Sexism is everywhere you said and your wife can not even wear a skirt. I stopped at those points, women are equal in most people's minds, they work in top management roles at my place and there is a Women's Community set up for them too, most of the women I work with don't get why they need a special community, a few are in it and they have healthy discussions about it's worth, perhaps you should switch firms and stop putting everyone down, also stop frightening your wife about wearing a frigging skirt because very few men are actually threatening with that happening, have you been watching Carry On Perving or something, she has a seed in her mind that she needs your help with IMO rather than kidding yourselves that the moment she walks out of the door with her legs on show that she becomes a target for the sexism that isn't actually everywhere.

Sexism is different to different people. The evidence you've quoted is narrow. How about rates of pay for comparable jobs? How about the number of male prostitutes? How about the number of women who have to choose children or career compared to the number of men who have to make that choice?

I've obviously touched a nerve with some of the Mr Angry comments on here.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Sexism is different to different people. The evidence you've quoted is narrow. How about rates of pay for comparable jobs? How about the number of male prostitutes? How about the number of women who have to choose children or career compared to the number of men who have to make that choice?

I've obviously touched a nerve with some of the Mr Angry comments on here.

You are in serious need, you are worrying about the number of male prostitutes there are, how are their rates in comparison to the female ones FFS, I would just say that it's a sad case that anyone has to sell sex for an income? How about the number of women that choose children over career and that so many men that don't get the choice, no nerve touched but you just get on mine, life is life and you can complicate it as much as you want with pointless arguments that can be turned on their heads.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

I could produce pages of evidence about how many women are in top jobs, how there is more violence against women, how women still get paid 2/3 (approx) of what men get for comparable jobs, how women are portrayed in the media, how many women do the childcare and work or are single mothers compared to the number of single fathers, the list is endless....

But just occasionally the ignorant should back their ideas up with evidence.

I don't disagree that there is sexism in the workplace (many of them) but the 2/3 figure is actually inaccurate except when you look at the non-Caucasian workforce, where the difference is around 40% for black women and 30% for Hispanics. The figure is around 3/4, but the controlled gender pay gap is around 3% (check out http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/gender-pay-gap) . Economist Claudia Goldin makes an interesting point: "Women aren’t choosing to make less. Instead, they’re buying the flexibility to handle responsibilities outside of work" which is something a lot of men would consider, I feel.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I don't disagree that there is sexism in the workplace (many of them) but the 2/3 figure is actually inaccurate except when you look at the non-Caucasian workforce, where the difference is around 40% for black women and 30% for Hispanics. The figure is around 3/4, but the controlled gender pay gap is around 3% (check out http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/gender-pay-gap) . Economist Claudia Goldin makes an interesting point: "Women aren’t choosing to make less. Instead, they’re buying the flexibility to handle responsibilities outside of work" which is something a lot of men would consider, I feel.

That pay gap have been put down as a lie but many economists and like you say by many female ones.

 

[LostBee]

I could produce pages of evidence about how many women are in top jobs, how there is more violence against women, how women still get paid 2/3 (approx) of what men get for comparable jobs, how women are portrayed in the media, how many women do the childcare and work or are single mothers compared to the number of single fathers, the list is endless....

But just occasionally the ignorant should back their ideas up with evidence.

Is there more violence against women,or is more just being reported now?

Are they paid less than men,or are you confusing wages with earnings?

Do you think that the reason there are more single mothers may have something do with the scandalous treatment of men seeking custody of their children?

Do you believe in fairies?

 

[Holysmit]

Sexism is different to different people. The evidence you've quoted is narrow. How about rates of pay for comparable jobs? How about the number of male prostitutes? How about the number of women who have to choose children or career compared to the number of men who have to make that choice?

I've obviously touched a nerve with some of the Mr Angry comments on here.

I agree with Northampton and how many male prostitues is really scraping the barrell and making your arguement even weaker. Do we have the latest census to check this out? If Male prostitue were a demand some people would exploit them. Prostitution is about explotation to make money regardless of any gender.

For the record in my career ive had numerous bosses and the majortiy have been women. If im truthful working with men was a lot easier as they dont tend to micro manage as much.

 

[wibs]

I wonder if he'd hadnt said three bit about her being a woman of it would Jane's been better or worse.

He could have simply argued "I said exactly the same as I would have to a male reporter".

 

[Jambo]

That's only evidence about your workplace.

But you said it was EVERYWHERE

And I am politely pointing out that it is not here

So you are wrong

 

[Jambo]

Is there more violence against women,or is more just being reported now?

Are they paid less than men,or are you confusing wages with earnings?

Do you think that the reason there are more single mothers may have something do with the scandalous treatment of men seeking custody of their children?

Do you believe in fairies?

Excellent point LostBee, official advice from various legal parties when I was in this situation was to not bother even attempting to get custody as the law is always going to favour the mother

 

[Artixbee]

Threatening (even if the threat is empty) physical violence to someone doing their job, regardless of their gender, is unacceptable and inexcusable.

Anyone who has ever done so, or thinks it is acceptable to do so, shame on you!

Being apologists for such behaviour simply sets the wrong message to future generations.

 

[hughbee]

But you said it was EVERYWHERE

And I am politely pointing out that it is not here

So you are wrong

Ok so it's not absolutely everywhere. It's just easy to spot in the media, in domestic life, in the workplace, in divorce courts, in football. In education where a fairly recent survey evidenced the number of sexual comments and unwanted touching girls suffer.

Obviously some men are ill treated in custody battles, but the assumption that women are better at childcare is also sexism.

There's no doubt things have got better in the last few years, but to say it's not still all too evident is being in denial.

 

[hughbee]

Sexism is everywhere you said and your wife can not even wear a skirt. I stopped at those points, women are equal in most people's minds, they work in top management roles at my place and there is a Women's Community set up for them too, most of the women I work with don't get why they need a special community, a few are in it and they have healthy discussions about it's worth, perhaps you should switch firms and stop putting everyone down, also stop frightening your wife about wearing a frigging skirt because very few men are actually threatening with that happening, have you been watching Carry On Perving or something, she has a seed in her mind that she needs your help with IMO rather than kidding yourselves that the moment she walks out of the door with her legs on show that she becomes a target for the sexism that isn't actually everywhere.

My wife can't wear a skirt.... wrong, she can't wear one without getting sexist comments. She's not frightened of sexist comments it's just annoying.

I'm frightening my wife... a complete assumption and wrong. We don't talk about sexism that much, it was just part of her comments re the Moyes situation.

The idea of "getting a slap" does hark back to the sort of language and actions that used to be more commonplace amongst men than it is now. Pulling up Moyes for using that sort of language is important, because it is unacceptable and is a bad example to men, probably a small minority, who think that way about women.

 

[JBN]

From what I have heard about it, Moyes made the comment, they both laughed.

Nothing to see here, move on.

It just seems some in the media have got hold of it and are making an issue out it.

Its fashionable to be offended and those that want to live that life, need to get one.

A guy I work with is always offering to give someone a slap, male or female, that's not sexist, that's equality.

 

[Idaho Bee]

Leicester fans were singing to Moyes tonight "you're getting slapped in the morning".

 

[Idaho Bee]

But you said it was EVERYWHERE

And I am politely pointing out that it is not here

So you are wrong

13 years old? 14?

 

[A Real Mysteron]

Personally, I think women look better in trousers.

 

[hanworthbee]

I saw it and there was nothing wrong at all. A bit of banter between two grown up consenting adults.This sort of thing goes on in workplaces everywhere. Grow up and move on.

Ah yes.....the good old 'football banter ' excused rolled out again.

 

[hanworthbee]

From what I have heard about it, Moyes made the comment, they both laughed.

Nothing to see here, move on.

It just seems some in the media have got hold of it and are making an issue out it.

Its fashionable to be offended and those that want to live that life, need to get one.

A guy I work with is always offering to give someone a slap, male or female, that's not sexist, that's equality.

The journalists employers who are the BBC complained.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Football is a male dominated testosterone fuelled environment. I'm surprised anyone would think there'd be the same level of tolerance as a normal working environment. It doesn't mirror the real world at all imo. As for this incident, I'm struggling with the sexist angle.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Football is a male dominated testosterone fuelled environment. I'm surprised anyone would think there'd be the same level of tolerance as a normal working environment. It doesn't mirror the real world at all imo. As for this incident, I'm struggling with the sexist angle.

I think the remark was ungentlemanly especially as it was made to a woman.
I suppose that I am being sexist though?

 

[liverbee]

To be honest, David Moyes would probably be pleased to inaugurate this interesting debate. He's an intelligent guy. I hear it as a self deprecating jest, and was taken as such by the interviewer who is very aware of the pressure that David is under. I note that the woman doing her job did not feel intimidated and that is important. It was nevertheless inappropriate for any manager or representative of their sport to make such a remark as it will only add to the duress that women are unfairly put under in the workplace. It has been taken by the BBC as such, quite rightly. He has apologised and admitted that his remark was wrong, regardless of the extra opprobrium it has brought on himself. It would equally wrong, and actually criminal for a professional boxer to make such a remark. I doubt if Nicola Adams would come out with a similar crack, or any of her male colleagues. They are particularly aware of their power.
The idea that things like racism, sexism, disabilism and all sorts of nasty behaviour is something dreamed up by lefties with nothing better to do, is a very strange construction of reality. I just hope that Romaine Sawyers tells the malignant manager of Man U that he wouldn't play for those old fossils even for Wayne Rooney's money.

 

[GP200]

.............is this crap still rumbling on???????............

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Leicester fans sung to him last night..."You're getting slapped in the morning" which I thought was very funny, apologies to all the strange people of this world who see no humour in anything and try and create a crime out of it.

 

[gbems92]

Leicester fans sung to him last night..."You're getting slapped in the morning" which I thought was very funny, apologies to all the strange people of this world who see no humour in anything and try and create a crime out of it.

Very funny indeed and perfect way to lighten up a silly situation. If his team wasn't in such a state I'm sure he might of had a giggle at it himself

 

[JBN]

The journalists employers who are the BBC complained.

Good to know my licence fee is being well spent

 

[Billy Hunt]

I think the remark was ungentlemanly

I agree.

 

[hughbee]

Leicester fans sung to him last night..."You're getting slapped in the morning" which I thought was very funny, apologies to all the strange people of this world who see no humour in anything and try and create a crime out of it.

Wow did someone create a crime out of Moyes' poor choice of words? I must have missed that!

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Wow did someone create a crime out of Moyes' poor choice of words? I must have missed that!

I think a lot passes you by.

 

[Jambo]

13 years old? 14?

And your point is what?

 

[hughbee]

I think a lot passes you by.

I was being sarky to point out your extreme exaggeration of what's been said. Nobody on here, including me, has made a crime out of what Moyes said. I have said several times that he's apologised and that he shouldn't be hung out to dry for it.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I was being sarky to point out your extreme exaggeration of what's been said. Nobody on here, including me, has made a crime out of what Moyes said. I have said several times that he's apologised and that he shouldn't be hung out to dry for it.

You also said that your wife can not wear a skirt, something about his words given licence to slapping women (I do need to check that in case I dreamed this) and then onto there not being enough male prostitutes around for your liking. I have no idea if you're being sarky, stupid or normal if I'm being honest and wonder what your next crusade will be.

"I've made it clear that what Moyes said is not the main thing to worry about. It is what it feeds into. "

That is what you said so maybe I read that wrong, I read it in a way that I think you are saying that Moyes' words can feed this sort of behaviour.

 

[Holysmit]

I was being sarky to point out your extreme exaggeration of what's been said. Nobody on here, including me, has made a crime out of what Moyes said. I have said several times that he's apologised and that he shouldn't be hung out to dry for it.

Then why the **** have you been banging on about sexism, Skirts etc, despite nearly all the responses being that it was totally different to everyone elses experience?

 

[hughbee]

You also said that your wife can not wear a skirt, something about his words given licence to slapping women (I do need to check that in case I dreamed this) and then onto there not being enough male prostitutes around for your liking. I have no idea if you're being sarky, stupid or normal if I'm being honest and wonder what your next crusade will be.

"I've made it clear that what Moyes said is not the main thing to worry about. It is what it feeds into. "

That is what you said so maybe I read that wrong, I read it in a way that I think you are saying that Moyes' words can feed this sort of behaviour.

I said my wife can't wear a skirt without the sexist comments starting. She doesn't hate that and isn't frightened of it, but probably finds it irritating.

Your quote is accurate. I'm saying that Moyes' comments are the thin end of a wedge, how thin it is at Moyes' end we disagree on. I can see a connection between Moyes' choice of words and the thicker end of the wedge. His tone may have been lighthearted but the words were not so easy on the ear.

I didn't say anything about his words giving anyone licence to slapping, I said they echo words used by some unpleasant men, much more in the past than now I hope.

Moyes was right to apologise. I do think that comments like that can feed into much worse things than his actions. That's why it's important to pull him up on it. I agree that the vast majority of men see women as equal, and that things have improved. Yet there is plenty of change to happen before they get fair treatment and equal opportunities in every field.

 

[nocoat]

You also said that your wife can not wear a skirt, something about his words given licence to slapping women (I do need to check that in case I dreamed this) and then onto there not being enough male prostitutes around for your liking. I have no idea if you're being sarky, stupid or normal if I'm being honest and wonder what your next crusade will be.

"I've made it clear that what Moyes said is not the main thing to worry about. It is what it feeds into. "

That is what you said so maybe I read that wrong, I read it in a way that I think you are saying that Moyes' words can feed this sort of behaviour.

lol

 

[wibs]

anyone know if Moyes has a fit wife? Or even a bruised one?

 

[Holysmit]

anyone know if Moyes has a fit wife? Or even a bruised one?

No but his daughter is ****ing Zaha.

 

[Oxford Bee]

No but his daughter is ****ing Zaha.

Is ****ing a verb or an adjective?

 

[JBN]

I said my wife can't wear a skirt without the sexist comments starting.

Really?

Perhaps she should invest in a lady shave

 

[hughbee]

Really?

Perhaps she should invest in a lady shave

I wish I'd never mentioned my wife's skirts. For anybody who's interested she wears leggings when she risks wearing a skirt to work.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I wish I'd never mentioned my wife's skirts. For anybody who's interested she wears leggings when she risks wearing a skirt to work.

She risks wearing leggings FFSroflrofl, do you sit at home watching "Are you being served", "Carry on Perving", "Confessions of a Window Licker" and tut away whilst trying to pretend that men are throwing sexist comments at every bloody woman in a skirt?

The odd couple is a better film for you IMO.

 

[LostBee]

I wish I'd never mentioned my wife's skirts. For anybody who's interested she wears leggings when she risks wearing a skirt to work.

If the place your wife works is so bad that she cannot even wear a skirt,why does she continue to work there?

 

[BURFORD BEE]

If the place your wife works is so bad that she cannot even wear a skirt,why does she continue to work there?

Back in the halcyon days of the 60's the majority of young ladies wore what were effectively fanny pelmets.
Strangely enough this didn't result in any more unsolicited comments than occur today. The majority of remarks would have been from horny old f***ers or old bints tut tutting.
There are those who wear outfits showing a yard of thigh or boobs like the pictures from Aintree in the press who positively look for a reaction but to suggest that a woman cant wear a skirt nowadays without sexist comments is ridiculous.

 

[JCMcBee]

Back in the halcyon days of the 60's the majority of young ladies wore what were effectively fanny pelmets.
Strangely enough this didn't result in any more unsolicited comments than occur today. The majority of remarks would have been from horny old f***ers or old bints tut tutting.
There are those who wear outfits showing a yard of thigh or boobs like the pictures from Aintree in the press who positively look for a reaction but to suggest that a woman cant wear a skirt nowadays without sexist comments is ridiculous.

'fanny pelmets'rofl

 

[hughbee]

If the place your wife works is so bad that she cannot even wear a skirt,why does she continue to work there?

There's just a bit of overreaction going on. My wife's work just has a few blokes who like to go phwoar to wind her up occasionally. In the grand scheme it's not that bad, just a very mild example of sexist comments.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

There's just a bit of overreaction going on. My wife's work just has a few blokes who like to go phwoar to wind her up occasionally. In the grand scheme it's not that bad, just a very mild example of sexist comments.

But you said you're wife can not wear a skirt because sexism is everywhere, now she slips on a tight fitting pair of leggings as there are a couple of fellas who enjoy a wind up and say phwoar to her if she slips on a skirt, you wish you hadn't brought it up, I'm glad you did as we all need a laugh from time to time and you are at least very funny.

 

[kaebess]

There's just a bit of overreaction going on. My wife's work just has a few blokes who like to go phwoar to wind her up occasionally. In the grand scheme it's not that bad, just a very mild example of sexist comments.

At work we have just over 30 staff, it is about 2/3 to 1/3 in favour of women.

Friday one of the guys working outside, who has a six pack, was working topless. A number of the women could not find enough excuses to get outside with unrelated questions. what would the company say if woman who works outside decided to do the same? Along with the guys working inside wanting to find all the reasons to get outside ? Or does the guy have to keep his top on in the first place ?

Back to equal opertunities at work in relation to the quality of work you produce. We have both women and men in comparable jobs. In one area the women are paid more than the men doing exactly the same job. This is all down to the quality of their work, nothing else. How do i know this ? Well I am the one that agrees their pay, as I employ them.

As to your wife wearing a skirt to work? I suggest that she ignores the comments and then they would stop. But most of the women I work with who make the effort ( and some don't ) appreciate that there efforts are noticed and appreciated, just like the guy who works outside and spends at least two hours in the gym everyday.

Ideology, as I understand it, still has yet to work? Some of us have to live and work in the real world and instead of looking at what could be wrong with it we make the most of it as it is. Then do our little bit to try make it a better place for us all to live and work.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

There's just a bit of overreaction going on. My wife's work just has a few blokes who like to go phwoar to wind her up occasionally. In the grand scheme it's not that bad, just a very mild example of sexist comments.

You see, I don't get why Phwoar is an issue except perhaps on an unlit road at midnight. Comments at work suggesting sex though are a totally different matter. In my experience most women are more than capable of giving back a sight more than they get.
A salutary lesson that I had as a twenty odd year old was when I got a bit cheeky at work a few young and a couple of middle-aged women held me down sprayed me with perfume, covered me in lipstick and threatened worse!
No doubt in todays crazy world I would have gone crying to my boss complaining that I had been assaulted.