Do we need to rethink loan policy?

Guildford Bee

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2000
Messages
13,292
Reaction score
812
Location
Caterham
Thats how we as a club roll. Surely you appreciate that. The huge expense, time and effort is on bringing these B team players and from within and not adding any value to loan players and there own clubs.
Yes, I’d course I understand that. But you have to show a degree of flexibility.

Say, for example, a situation were to arise where your left back who’s played every game for nearly two years burns out, pulls up with a medium-term injury and there’s no obvious replacement in the B team...

Not ideal
 

UnsungZero

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2015
Messages
459
Reaction score
162
The cost of changing strategy isn't limited to loan fees but includes reducing the appeal of the club to ambitious young players. Janelt, for instance, had offers elsewhere but was doubtless impressed by the progression other young recruits had achieved at and via Brentford.
 

Guildford Bee

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2000
Messages
13,292
Reaction score
812
Location
Caterham
The cost of changing strategy isn't limited to loan fees but includes reducing the appeal of the club to ambitious young players. Janelt, for instance, had offers elsewhere but was doubtless impressed by the progression other young recruits had achieved at and via Brentford.
Janelt was signed as first team squad player, not a B team player.
 

UnsungZero

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2015
Messages
459
Reaction score
162
Janelt was signed as first team squad player, not a B team player.
But in interview after signing he mentioned the fact that he became aware of Brentford 'getting virtually undiscovered players for little money and selling them for ten times as much' before choosing Bees.
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,860
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Maidenhead
Yes, I’d course I understand that. But you have to show a degree of flexibility.

Say, for example, a situation were to arise where your left back who’s played every game for nearly two years burns out, pulls up with a medium-term injury and there’s no obvious replacement in the B team...

Not ideal
You mean like a CB getting injured and bringing someone like Winston Reid in?
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,860
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Maidenhead
Janelt was signed as first team squad player, not a B team player.
I don't think we were that prescriptive, if you read his interview yesterday he had barely made any first team appearances before he joined us and was told B team and a loan to FCM were options depending on how well things went.
 

Sandybee

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2020
Messages
154
Reaction score
66
You didn't need hindsight to know having no cover for Rico (without players playing out of position) was madness.
It’s not madness.... but....Thompson was loaned out for his improvement, and done in the knowledge that we didn’t have a reserve left back, although we had MBS who could cover, should Rico take a knock. Now, we have MBS playing (in a preferable position) cos Pontus is out after an operation (and he stated he’d been struggling with his injury for a while) so we signed on loan, (not in our business model) at short notice, Reid, (who is 31 odd with injury history) as cover. But it looks like he’s in the side now, cos MBS, I guess, will have to play left back, so it’s just as well we have Goode, eh!
 

jlove

Well-known member
Joined
17 Dec 2002
Messages
34,335
Reaction score
1,682
Location
Vaison-la-Romaine
I think the "loan policy" is clear and rational but it is not prescriptive. If there were players available and affordable that would improve the primary 18-or-so players, then I think the Club would have taken them, for example the Reid loan. On the other hand, we're not going to collect players on the basis they might just be OK if we ever needed them and I doubt the loaning club would agree on that basis.

Loaning out is very different but each player must be evaluated as part of their development. If a player is evaluated as having little or no chance of making a first-team impact, then it's infinitely preferable to loan them out, hopefully to get hem to the point of being able to make that first team impact.

I can't see it needs a rethink. It's only hindsight that makes some want to revisit the possibility.
 

Hippobee

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2021
Messages
218
Reaction score
194
Location
Farnborough
Whether we agree with the club's policy on taking players on loan or not (and there are good arguments for both sides) I have seen the word 'hindsight' mentioned a few times now. Can we drop this? Our current poor run has clearly raised the question of whether we could/should have strengthened again, but whatever it was, it wasn't hindsight. Adding players to the squad (both through loans sand transfers) was debated at length on the GPG from about November onwards. I lost count of the amount of times the question was raised about when the next left back and winger was going to come in.
 

westendbee

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2012
Messages
475
Reaction score
106
Charlie Austin is a player I don’t anywhere near our club, the players don’t even like him at the Bush but suffer him because he scores goals. Truth is he’s an overweight, undisciplined c*k* head who knows where the net is.
Is his first name a glorious example of nominative determination?
 

Brentford Bob

Well-known member
Joined
5 Apr 2000
Messages
10,899
Reaction score
272
Location
Chandlers Ford, Hants.
Charlie Austin is a player I don’t anywhere near our club, the players don’t even like him at the Bush but suffer him because he scores goals. Truth is he’s an overweight, undisciplined c*k* head who knows where the net is.
Exactly my thoughts. When I saw that he’d gone there, and Glen Murray had gone to Forest... I just laughed.
 

wanderer paul

https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Joined
28 Oct 2002
Messages
50,654
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Brentford
Exactly my thoughts. When I saw that he’d gone there, and Glen Murray had gone to Forest... I just laughed.
We all did. However, both clubs have seen an upturn in their results and pulled away from the relegation area. So it has worked.....for them. 🤷

I think many supporters, behind the scenes, were talking about cover for Henry, and Toney even, but understand the rationale behind the Clubs stance on loanees. We understand and accept it. You have to. It’s their Club - at present - and they’re supporting the coach the best way the owner and DoFs can. We have a squad of 50+ (including B team players). Any loanee coming in would want to play - Reid sounds like a good pro and understands the way it works here - and not sit on the bench hoping someone gets injured. It’s something we have to accept. :)
 

magicbees

Active member
Joined
5 Jul 2006
Messages
5,494
Reaction score
236
Location
Earley
To me our loan policy needed to be changed for this season and also our long run in the league cup hasnt helped in game time. Cant be many sides in the 92 that have played more games than us. The window was a perfect time to bring in 3 or 4 loans in to freshen up the squad and people moan that people would want first team football, well they would have been. I worried that the head management team didnt feel this way and bought in a CB on the last day despite only having 2 fit ones since early December. If you are not going to go for it a little when you are on long unbeaten run and sit third in the division at the time when will you. I dont like the blaming of TF and a lot of the players who except for a couple have been outstanding, we just needed that boost in my view. Most of you will mostly disagree with me, but hey it wont be for the first time. We need a win and i dont care how it comes. Still 15 games to go.
 

rebus

Chin Laden
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,766
Reaction score
1,087
Location
Leytonstone / Ilford
To me our loan policy needed to be changed for this season and also our long run in the league cup hasnt helped in game time. Cant be many sides in the 92 that have played more games than us. The window was a perfect time to bring in 3 or 4 loans in to freshen up the squad and people moan that people would want first team football, well they would have been. I worried that the head management team didnt feel this way and bought in a CB on the last day despite only having 2 fit ones since early December. If you are not going to go for it a little when you are on long unbeaten run and sit third in the division at the time when will you. I dont like the blaming of TF and a lot of the players who except for a couple have been outstanding, we just needed that boost in my view. Most of you will mostly disagree with me, but hey it wont be for the first time. We need a win and i dont care how it comes. Still 15 games to go.
Don’t forget the home grown rule in matchday squads. Getting 3/4 loans in will mean most of them would have to qualify and that comes at a premium.
 
OP
S

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
197
I think Jim Levack but it best on Twitter when he said that in this instance our obsession with getting ‘long-term value’ has been to the detriment of the team and its chances of success this season.

Of course we should’ve reconsidered our attitude to the loan market, especially in a season of two games a week. One or two players could’ve made a huge difference.
It's an interesting take on our business model. I'm not sure I'd totally agree with Jim Levack, but I guess whilst we continue to "blow up" mid season or towards the end of season's, then it's hard to disagree. We're a very unique club, which is why we're punching above our weight, but the more time goes on it is clear "long term value" comes first, second and third, and if that results in lost points during the season, that has to be the sacrifice.

As I mentioned elsewhere last season was the ideal opportunity, and it's probably no coincidence we won 8 on the bounce post lockdown, as we're the amongst the most talented teams in the league, the break is likely what kept us so fresh during the run in and brought us to extra time in a play off final.

I'm not convinced we'll be able to get so close again, with our model as is evidenced from competing year on year, but only qualifying for the play offs twice. The same pattern looks to be taking hold this year, after reading other posters I do think we missed a trick in January.

Our club always find creative ideas, could they do it in the loan market to add two or three experienced pros?

Can you concentrate solely on "long term value" and be promoted from a high quality, competitive championship, or do you need flexibility and some balance?

Interesting debate!
 
Last edited:

sonofabee

Well-known member
Joined
14 Feb 2003
Messages
46,900
Reaction score
296
Location
Walton on Thames
Is his first name a glorious example of nominative determination?
Allegedly he was innocent and just happened to be using the same cubicle that before had been subject to some drug misuse. He was so upset when arrested that he attacked the person who identified him he was so upset at being falsely accused.
 

WARFIELD BEE

Active member
Joined
14 Aug 2011
Messages
4,318
Reaction score
427
Don’t forget the home grown rule in matchday squads. Getting 3/4 loans in will mean most of them would have to qualify and that comes at a premium.
I think most were thinking 1 or 2, I certainly was.
 

Actonian

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2013
Messages
33
Reaction score
1
Could make £150M profit on that investment by May though
True, but if you go up with loan players you then have to replace them in the squad. Replace them like for like and you haven't improved the squad. West Brom in the summer made two of their loans into permanent signings and promptly blew their transfer budget without actually improving the squad. Villa did the same the year before and only just stayed up.
 
OP
S

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
197
We talk about our great model but is it flexible enough! What a decision from Barnsley to bring in Daryl Dike on loan. It's unlikely they'll be able to afford to buy outright. However their research, flexibility and short term investment looks sure to win them a play off spot and on current form might be the decision that gets them to the PL. It shows the loan market is full of gems, obviously as a Bee I don't want Barnsley to be successful but as a football fan I acknowledge their football operations and how they researched the last piece of the jigsaw at a time they realised promotion was possible. If it ultimately fails Daryl moves on again but the short term investment was worth the risk.

I suspect the short term investment didn't break the bank as Olando have a multi million pound player on their books; his form in England and being in the shop window has led to calls his worth could be $20million by the summer.
 
Last edited:

shouldbee

Active member
Joined
20 Jun 2005
Messages
8,557
Reaction score
156
Location
Richmond
We talk about our great model but is it flexible enough! What a decision from Barnsley to bring in Daryl Dike on loan. It's unlikely they'll be able to afford to buy outright. However their research, flexibility and short term investment looks sure to win them a play off spot and on current form might be the decision that gets them to the PL. It shows the loan market is full of gems, obviously as a Bee I don't want Barnsley to be successful but as a football fan I acknowledge their football operations and how they researched the last piece of the jigsaw at a time they realised promotion was possible. If it ultimately fails Daryl moves on again but the short term investment was worth the risk.

I suspect the short term investment didn't break the bank as Olando have a multi million pound player on their books; his form in England and being in the shop window has led to calls his worth could be $20million by the summer.
I agree, if a short term loan can help you achieve your objective ( promotion) then it's absolutely worth it. I don't think a loanee upsets the harmony of the squad, if he helps us to go up everyone benefits.
 

Delbee

Active member
Joined
14 Nov 2006
Messages
8,948
Reaction score
600
Location
West Middlesex
There could be value, with the right loan to buy deal, but as has been stated our B team is the pathway for most youngsters, but loans shouldn't be dismissed entirely if there is a way to add value.
The loan deal with a right to buy was used for the Ghoddos, I’ll let you make up your mind if it was good or bad
 

The Pipe

Active member
Joined
7 Feb 2005
Messages
9,769
Reaction score
734
Location
churchinford Devon
I would hate some of our fans having to control the purse strings of the club.

in an ideal world we could have splashed a load of cash in getting loanees, if young and inexperienced would they have improved the squad or just been an increase in numbers, if experienced then how much would they cost?

Posters have mentioned Swansea as a club that has used the loan market and we have seen the cost, if successful then probably money well spent, however after 3 defeats on the trot success is looking less likely and the financial impact could well effect them next season.

We have B team which ultimately is supposed to provide a pathway to the first team, as yet the numbers are not high but like the first team a number of the B team prospects have been set back with injuries.

We have seen the financial report which shows a significant deficit between income and expenditure yet if we go down the loan route we are just increasing the gap without benefiting from any future income from sales.

We may not achieve promotion this season, or next, but in time the model we operate on ( which is recognised by fans of other clubs as an ideal way of running a club) will ensure promotion to the top league in a financial position that is sustainable.

We would all like promotion sooner rather than later however we are a club on the up, shrewd fiscal management means the days of bucket collections, or for older fans, the “ golden gates” are behind us. Player sales enable us to continue as one of the top Championship clubs and despite all the gloom mongers I would hazard a guess that a number of clubs will be in need of funds in the summer giving us a great deal of leverage in the transfer market especially with the transfer embargo’s scattered around the EFL

Patience for football fans is difficult however we have recent History of being rubbish and financially up the creek without a paddle. We are now in a good place and spending a few million on a gamble that might or might not work in my mind would not be prudent
 

westendbee

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2012
Messages
475
Reaction score
106
2 of the 3 loanees Swansea brought in have got crocked so they have achieved little if anything with the money they spent there...
 

jlove

Well-known member
Joined
17 Dec 2002
Messages
34,335
Reaction score
1,682
Location
Vaison-la-Romaine
There's very little point in trying to re-engineer the past with speculative loans. On the other hand, I think that, with promotion to the Premier League, more loan deals would be considered as we'd be in position to attract young fringe players from the top 6 (pick a number) PL clubs and possibly from other top European leagues. Our culture and set-up would be seen as a good environment by those clubs, where the Championship is not the standard they'd want to see for their players today.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
16,637
Reaction score
757
Location
KT3 New Malden
The loan deal with a right to buy was used for the Ghoddos, I’ll let you make up your mind if it was good or bad
No it wasn't, it was a loan deal so Amiens could defer paying Tax until the next French tax year. From our point of view it was always a permanent signing.
 
OP
S

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
197
I would hate some of our fans having to control the purse strings of the club.

in an ideal world we could have splashed a load of cash in getting loanees, if young and inexperienced would they have improved the squad or just been an increase in numbers, if experienced then how much would they cost?

Posters have mentioned Swansea as a club that has used the loan market and we have seen the cost, if successful then probably money well spent, however after 3 defeats on the trot success is looking less likely and the financial impact could well effect them next season.

We have B team which ultimately is supposed to provide a pathway to the first team, as yet the numbers are not high but like the first team a number of the B team prospects have been set back with injuries.

We have seen the financial report which shows a significant deficit between income and expenditure yet if we go down the loan route we are just increasing the gap without benefiting from any future income from sales.

We may not achieve promotion this season, or next, but in time the model we operate on ( which is recognised by fans of other clubs as an ideal way of running a club) will ensure promotion to the top league in a financial position that is sustainable.

We would all like promotion sooner rather than later however we are a club on the up, shrewd fiscal management means the days of bucket collections, or for older fans, the “ golden gates” are behind us. Player sales enable us to continue as one of the top Championship clubs and despite all the gloom mongers I would hazard a guess that a number of clubs will be in need of funds in the summer giving us a great deal of leverage in the transfer market especially with the transfer embargo’s scattered around the EFL

Patience for football fans is difficult however we have recent History of being rubbish and financially up the creek without a paddle. We are now in a good place and spending a few million on a gamble that might or might not work in my mind would not be prudent
Good post and hard to argue against your points. My theory though is if the club were creative, flexible and used the research they obviously do on potential signings there may just be room to find a solution to an obvious problem or find the last piece of the jigsaw. It's fair to say Swansea's model of numerous loan signings hasn't worked, maybe due to the fact these players may be out of contract or need to find a permanent deal in a few weeks with obvious psychological thinking there (can't get injured etc).

We won't know for another 8 weeks but as things stand Barnsley identified their one weakness (goalscorer) did research, realised they could offer an MLS player a shop window for 6 months at a time they had put themselves into a promotion race whilst providing the player and parent club a potential payday in the summer. If they ultimately take a PL place then that calculated risk was worth it. They may even sneek up the inside of clubs who's whole model and new stadium was about being "PL ready". Maybe Barnsley's model doesn't expect to compete every year so they did their research and went after a good loan as this is their chance.

I know we brought Winston in for cover but I think it may be a market to be creative in if we fall short again this season. Developing B team players in the here and now and competing for promotion is tough.
 
Last edited:

wanderer paul

https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Joined
28 Oct 2002
Messages
50,654
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Brentford
The loan deal with a right to buy was used for the Ghoddos, I’ll let you make up your mind if it was good or bad
That’s just utter Rubbish.
 

Gee Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2001
Messages
22,658
Reaction score
176
Location
Rayleigh
The loan deal with a right to buy was used for the Ghoddos, I’ll let you make up your mind if it was good or bad
That's not correct as it was always going to be buy, but needed the loan piece for selling club to get round financial years.,
There could be value if we did a more enhanced version of the Bidwell, Forshaw & Dean type deals.
 

WARFIELD BEE

Active member
Joined
14 Aug 2011
Messages
4,318
Reaction score
427
That's not correct as it was always going to be buy, but needed the loan piece for selling club to get round financial years.,
There could be value if we did a more enhanced version of the Bidwell, Forshaw & Dean type deals.
I think Reading had that sort of deal with Ejaria
 

Dazza

Active member
Joined
5 Sep 2006
Messages
1,738
Reaction score
481
Location
Twickenham
It's very easy to sit there and say "a loan signing could be the difference between promotion and not" but sadly there is no guarantee that it would work out (like most transfers) and the clubs view, and one I agree with, is that it's better to sign someone permanently so that if we don't achieve our aims we can sell the player on and reinvest. A loan signing could be good but if we spend that money and don't go up the player returns to his club and we get nothing back from it.
 

HaylingBee74

Active member
Joined
8 Aug 2020
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
560
Location
Hayling Island
If our regular formation involved 2 forwards say 352 or 442 etc I can see the need for another forward. Whether that would be a loan, loan to buy or outright buy I dont know. Pressley and Mogensen are still a way off being considered for a srarting role
 

Nada Bee

Well-known member
Joined
10 Aug 2001
Messages
18,539
Reaction score
973
Location
Aveley
Not really, no.

You're better off having a squad of your own players who can cover and then increase in value. Loan signings are generally dead money, like renting a house.

However, if the model changes and we go up and we could for example get some 19 year old wonderkid from Real Madrid for a year, then absolutely its worth it. But for now, we need the dosh in development IMO.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
11,581
Reaction score
1,490
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Getting Reid suggests the club are quite happy to loan in an appropriate player if needed. We could probably have done with a winger, a LB and/or a driving attacking midfielder. Has anyone seen any good ones clubs at our level picked up on loan in January that we might arguably have passed on because of our “loan policy”? Or who are languishing in PL/Euro club reserves but definitely available and good?

Maybe we didn’t go for anyone on loan because there was nobody good enough and available at a tolerable price. Would Dike have wanted to come to be an occasional sub to Toney? Would playing him like that have done Forss any good?
 

jlove

Well-known member
Joined
17 Dec 2002
Messages
34,335
Reaction score
1,682
Location
Vaison-la-Romaine
Aren’t Reading flirting with exceeding FFP, in a live game it said that they need promotion to be in line
I think Reading will lose a lot of players if they don't get promoted. Ejaria, Lucas João and Meite must be on the radar of many clubs and Omar Richards (the 3rd-highest rated LB in the Championship this season) is already strongly rumoured to have signed a contract with Bayern Munich.
 

Ealing Bee

Well-known member
Joined
5 Jun 2002
Messages
10,465
Reaction score
1,120
Location
Now Chiswick (proud to be a YIMBY)
Posters have mentioned Swansea as a club that has used the loan market and we have seen the cost, if successful then probably money well spent, however after 3 defeats on the trot success is looking less likely and the financial impact could well effect them next season.
Very true - and that's before you get to the fact that Swansea are skint i.e. they couldn't make loads of permanent signings even if they wanted to.

More generally, we shouldn't imagine that club policies are set in stone. For example, we were fully committed to the Academy system, until the PL shafted the EFL clubs running academies. At which point werefused to succumb to the Sunken Cost Fallacy, closed it down and came up with a replacement.

And I suspect that it's the same here. That is, if Brexit means we will be restricted from signing the next Maupay, Mbuemo or Janelt etc, then we will undoubtedly be reviewing out transfer signings policy. And if that points us in the direction of loans, then that's the way we'll go.
 

keefor

On a break.
Joined
9 Jan 2001
Messages
716
Reaction score
5
Location
Southamptonshire
With regard to the original question, for the transfer policy to change the primary aim of the club would also have to change.

The business model of BFC is to in effect act as a 'finishing school' for younger players who will be coached in such a way to enable them to be sold on for more than what was paid for them. Getting promoted to the Premier league may come about from this policy (and be welcomed) but it is subordinate to the 'finishing school' idea. Getting in 'loans' is an option to cover for employees in the short term but is not likely to be sustainable in the longer term and as has been pointed out higher up the thread, not assist players who have been bought for the present business model.

Brentford do well to 'punch above their weight', but the reality is that with the constant turn-over of players we are unlikely to have enough 'premier standard' footballers in any one season to achieve a top 2 finish.
 

Magical

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2021
Messages
53
Reaction score
36
Location
Barnsley
We talk about our great model but is it flexible enough! What a decision from Barnsley to bring in Daryl Dike on loan. It's unlikely they'll be able to afford to buy outright. However their research, flexibility and short term investment looks sure to win them a play off spot and on current form might be the decision that gets them to the PL. It shows the loan market is full of gems, obviously as a Bee I don't want Barnsley to be successful but as a football fan I acknowledge their football operations and how they researched the last piece of the jigsaw at a time they realised promotion was possible. If it ultimately fails Daryl moves on again but the short term investment was worth the risk.

I suspect the short term investment didn't break the bank as Olando have a multi million pound player on their books; his form in England and being in the shop window has led to calls his worth could be $20million by the summer.
Like yourselves we’re very reluctant to loan in players, but we make an exception, if said player is
1, Better than what we can bring in permanently.
2, A stop gap until we can get the permanent signing we’ve identified.
3, With the view to a permanent signing i/e, a fee agreed.

This season we’ve had 3 loan players, all at different periods.

Kilian Ludewig a 20 old right back from RB Salzburg, we sent him back once we’d sign a right back permanently.
We then loaned in
Matty James, midfielder from Leicester City, bags of experience at this level, and of a quality we’d struggle to attract/afford permanently.
In January we sent James back
and signed Dike. With a view to a permanent deal, with a fee agreed.

I’m with your owner on the subject of loaning players in, i think it’s a waste of a squad place, for someone you could be developing for yourselves, but if you’re going to do it, the way we’re going about it, is just about the best way. One at a time and make sure they are of better quality than anyone you could sign permanently.
 

wanderer paul

https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Joined
28 Oct 2002
Messages
50,654
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Brentford
I’m with your owner on the subject of loaning players in, i think it’s a waste of a squad place, for someone you could be developing for yourselves, but if you’re going to do it, the way we’re going about it, is just about the best way. One at a time and make sure they are of better quality than anyone you could sign permanently.
Are you trying to teach Brentford’s DoFs how to suck eggs?

That’s what Brentford have done for the last 8 years or so.
 

aslan

Member
Joined
10 Sep 2020
Messages
164
Reaction score
120
I can't believe people are pointing to teams below us as a "we aren't doing well enough and it works for them!"
 

Magical

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2021
Messages
53
Reaction score
36
Location
Barnsley
I can't believe people are pointing to teams below us as a "we aren't doing well enough and it works for them!"
You can still look at them for inspiration on how to improve in certain areas, you might be flying high in the league, but they’ll be certain things you’re not quite getting right. In your case it’s more likely to be off field issues. But they’ll be certain things teams below you are getting right that you’re not quite. Although just about every club in the league will be looking at Brentford for inspiration on our to run their club, and quite rightly too.
 
OP
S

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
197
I can't believe people are pointing to teams below us as a "we aren't doing well enough and it works for them!"
We're doing well of course, take out the fact we're Brentford FC, a smaller club than most in this league and a club who have had a great 10 years. The reality is last year we had the best forward unit to ever play in the championship, and this season have one if not the best striker in the league. We fell short last season and on last night's performance it's likely we'll fall short again. Most clubs with the players available the last two years would have been promoted! The fact we weren't and might not be points to something being wrong with our model and looking at other ideas to add to what we already have isn't a bad thing.
 

aslan

Member
Joined
10 Sep 2020
Messages
164
Reaction score
120
We're doing well of course, take out the fact we're Brentford FC, a smaller club than most in this league and a club who have had a great 10 years. The reality is last year we had the best forward unit to ever play in the championship, and this season have one if not the best striker in the league. We fell short last season and on last night's performance it's likely we'll fall short again. Most clubs with the players available the last two years would have been promoted! The fact we weren't and might not be points to something being wrong with our model and looking at other ideas to add to what we already have isn't a bad thing.
If we are falling short right now, a loan signing or two will do nothing to aide us next season when the job is more difficult. I say good! I definitely don't want to be giving myself a false pretense about where we are / how we will do, based on another teams players.
 

aslan

Member
Joined
10 Sep 2020
Messages
164
Reaction score
120
Can we do it when they are above us? It wont be long
Every team bar Norwich have gone through these spells, most have been worse than ours and haven't been better during "the good runs". We've missed key players all season, and still having a better season than teams people are aspiring to be like.
Start of the season you're told "touching distance of autos, game in hand plus a game against the team above us" we'd all be fancying our chances and looking forward to it.
 
OP
S

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
197
If we are falling short right now, a loan signing or two will do nothing to aide us next season when the job is more difficult. I say good! I definitely don't want to be giving myself a false pretense about where we are / how we will do, based on another teams players.
It's my view the B team model has worked well for us and the "football factory" part of the business is also working perfectly. Despite what jersey they're wearing and what club they're representating the 2019/2020 and 2020/2021 Brentford team's should have been promoted. Let's see what happens in the next 8 weeks, but if we fall short again then the model, analytics and system we use may have peaked, and whilst the model keeps us competitive and as a stable championship club the model just can't take us any further in English football. It may not be a model that can achieve promotion to the PL; and may in fact show why it is unique. I'm still hopeful it can win promotion, but I do see why it's being questioned slightly at this stage.

If we fall short my expectations will reduce and I'll continue enjoying good championship seasons year on year, it is a great league.
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,860
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Maidenhead
I just think we won't have the finance for a big squad, and it's maybe something we need to consider if we're ultimately ever going to get promoted. As a business model our current policy works, but as of yet the model hasn't got us promoted to the PL.

You are under the misapprehension that loans are cheap, that is where your complete argument is flawed.

A kid from a B team on loan is cheap but what value does that give us if he isn't any more ready or better than our own B team players. If you want someone who is slightly proven then you can expect to pay a fee that would be similar to what we paid for Janelt who is a saleable asset and does not have to be guaranteed to play every week regardless of form.

This subject has been done to death over the last few years and the answer always comes out the same, that is not "jumping" on people either, it is just the answer is always the same.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AB

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,860
Reaction score
1,832
Location
Maidenhead
Trouble is there is a big gap between B and first team, how many B teamers get brought on in games?
Janelt (originally bought for B team according to his interview), Sorenson, Forss, Roeslev and what about 12M Mepham. All regulars who came from the B team. It is not about how many B teamers came on as sub in a particular game it is how many we develop from scratch and add first team value or are sold at a profit.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom