The Former Grounds of Brentford FC

wanderer paul

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It’s good. Tough to do really.

Clifden and not “Clifton” though 😬

Beesotted were going to do a heritage walk via the pubs Brentford used (with Fullers too) but, sadly, it never got off the ground because of C-19. ☹

One over the Ait, The Griffin, The Plough, The Globe, The Plough, The Lord Nelson (as The Duke of York is no more), The Griffin and finally back to One Over the Ait!!

Did a mock up of a leaflet to take with you too.....never mind. 🙁
 
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Herbert

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Is there any records to Brentford Celtic & St.Pauls FC ?

What levels they played at , colours etc
 

vcmazz

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It’s good. Tough to do really.

Clifden and not “Clifton” though 😬


Beesotted we’re going to do a heritage walk via the pubs Brentford used (with Fullers too) but, sadly, it never got off the ground because of C-19. ☹

One of the Ait, The Griffin, The Plough, The Globe, The Plough, The Lord Nelson (as The Duke of York is no more), The Griffin and finally back to One Over the Ait!

Did a mock up of a leaflet to take with you too.....never mind. 🙁
I'd be up for that when the time is right. Can we do cabs though? Walking seems a bit excessive. Or is that bit for charity?
 
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Herbert

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It’s good. Tough to do really.

Clifden and not “Clifton” though 😬

Beesotted we’re going to do a heritage walk via the pubs Brentford used (with Fullers too) but, sadly, it never got off the ground because of C-19. ☹

The Griffin, The Plough, The Globe, The Plough, The Lord Nelson (as The Duke of York is no more) and finally, The Griffin!!

Did a mock up of a leaflet to take with you too.....never mind. 🙁
Can be done another time, could be interesting
 

TW3Bee

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Very good vid.

Any chance this will be released?
 

Nickabee

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Most enjoyable and good to hear Hey Jude at the end which I am reading suggestions we should abandon
 

wanderer paul

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Is there any records to Brentford Celtic & St.Pauls FC ?

What levels they played at , colours etc
Very little exists in the newspapers re the two Clubs noted above.

St Paul's (Brentford) FC were formed around the same time as Brentford FC. A Cricket Club, originally, who played Rugby in the winter, first off, before changing to Association Football, following in the footsteps of Brentford FC. They were a junior club just playing local park football in Little Ealing (at the Cross Road's Ground). Season 1893/1894 saw the St Paul's Club play in the West London Alliance League. A chance they took because of Brentford FC's resignation, due to not receiving a trophy, or medals, for winning the title the previous season! The merger/amalgamation took place in the summer of 1894. This allowed Brentford FC to play a much stronger Reserve XI. One notable player to make a difference to the First XI was a chap named Herbert Edney. He was one part of the Brentford XI's to be runners-up two years running in the West Middlesex Cup, runner-up London League Div.2, runner-up London League Div.1 and, finally, a double winner of the London Senior and Middlesex Senior Cup's.

As to their colours, there's no mention at all of the kits they wore.

Brentford Celtic FC are less well known. Little is written about them in the newspapers of the period. No mention of when or where they were founded. Another Brentford junior club who played local park football. No leagues are mentioned. This Club amalgamated with Brentford FC in the summer of 1898. They too played at the Cross Road's Ground Little Ealing. The merger allowed Brentford FC to put out four XI's!! Firsts, reserves, "B" and a "C" XI. No player of note seemed to make it into the First XI. Most playing for the B & C XI's.

Again, no notes are made as to their colours either.
 
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rebus

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Really good video of our previous grounds.

Well done Dave it was certainly worth all the effort.
Dave is the don at former football ground and his knowledge of other league clubs is impeccable. Try and pick up “Grounds For A Change” book he wrote. It’s superb.
 
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Very good. Thank you Dave
 

Ealing Bee

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Super piece of work. (y)

My only (petty) quibble is that for those who aren't very familiar with all the locations, it might have benefited from a map of the overall Brentford/Ealing/Kew area, so you could follow from each ground to the next as the club made its various peregrinations (to use a 19th century word).

But it certainly didn't spoil it for me, since I know all those places very well, without having known the exact Bees connection.
 

shepperton bee

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Fascinating piece of work , was never really sure wher a couple of our former homes were. Vividly remember my grandfather who was born in 1890 telling me about seeing his beloved Bees play before they moved to GP . I think he saw them play at the last 2 grounds before we made the move let’s hope in about 90+ years time someone will still be around to say they saw the Bees play at GP !!
 

wanderer paul

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Super piece of work. (y)

My only (petty) quibble is that for those who aren't very familiar with all the locations, it might have benefited from a map of the overall Brentford/Ealing/Kew area, so you could follow from each ground to the next as the club made its various peregrinations (to use a 19th century word).

But it certainly didn't spoil it for me, since I know all those places very well, without having known the exact Bees connection.

They were all done on this thread.....
 

Streetboy

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Dave is the don at former football ground and his knowledge of other league clubs is impeccable. Try and pick up “Grounds For A Change” book he wrote. It’s superb.
Denied FC, charting the history of clubs trying and failing to get elected to the Football League pre-1987, is also a great read.
 

westwing

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A very enjoyable and interesting watch.
I feel it in my blood as I've spent my life in those areas.
I went to Primary School beside The Plough, we would play in the park at Bramley Road after school.
Went to Secondary on The Ryde, lived in Boston Manor. I still walk my dog around St. Paul's
Rec whilst the Mrs shops in Morrisons.
Well done!!
 

wanderer paul

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Dave is the don at former football ground and his knowledge of other league clubs is impeccable. Try and pick up “Grounds For A Change” book he wrote. It’s superb.
@rebus Are you agreeing with where Benn's Field was located? I believe it was behind The Plough Inn (as in your 100Yrs of GP book) and NOT up towards the station at Northfields. The film is suggesting it's towards Bramley Gardens but, looking at the field boundaries, the ground wouldn't get two pitches marked out on it. However, the field boundaries show that the field (No.226 as shown in your book), behind the Plough and stretching from Little Ealing Lane right up to the railway embankments, is the one Brenford FC used. The newspaper match reports nearly always mention those cheap-skate supporters standing on the railway embankment and not paying their money to enter the enclosed areas!

The walk from the Plough Inn to the ground is said to have been 200 yards, pass the pleasure grounds and bowling green. The walkway alongside the Plough is 200 yards to that field (No.226). Also, the embankment is accessed by two pathways. One from "Northfield Lane" and the other from Ealing Road. So giving easy access to those wishing to view the game without paying for it!!

This field is also the one next to the field, used later, named as the Cross Road's Ground. The former home of Brentford Celtic FC.

Any views on this? I'm just being a bit picky! :)

Here's a map of the area circa 1894.
  • red star - Plough Inn
  • red arrow - just over 200 yards distance
  • red rectangles - two pitches (approx size)
  • red circle - Bramley Gardens (as now)
  • red pentagon - Shotter's Field
  • red decagon - Cross Road's Ground
226.JPG

A map overlay is here: Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland

(to access the overlay, click off the box then in the bottom left is the "opacity" slider. Move that around, you'll see the new and the old. (y)
 
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cheshirebee

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A very enjoyable and interesting watch.
I feel it in my blood as I've spent my life in those areas.
I went to Primary School beside The Plough, we would play in the park at Bramley Road after school.
Went to Secondary on The Ryde, lived in Boston Manor. I still walk my dog around St. Paul's
Rec whilst the Mrs shops in Morrisons.
Well done!!
Similar for me. A very nostalgic virtual stroll.
Primary school (St.Johns) was behind the Royal Oak in Brook Road. Secondary school was built on Shotters Field. Teen years I lived across the road from where Shotters Field was.
In my 20’s lived in Clifden Road, Braemar Road and In Bowles Hall behind the ER goal.
Thanks Dave.
 

Stanley

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Its a great watch. an invaluable part of the club history on record. Well done Dave T.
 

rebus

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@rebus Are you agreeing with where Benn's Field was located? I believe it was behind The Plough Inn (as in your 100Yrs of GP book) and NOT up towards the station at Northfields. The film is suggesting it's towards Bramley Gardens but, looking at the field boundaries, the ground wouldn't get two pitches marked out on it. However, the field boundaries show that the field (No.226 as shown in your book), behind the Plough and stretching from Little Ealing Lane right up to the railway embankments, is the one Brenford FC used. The newspaper match reports nearly always mention those cheap-skate supporters standing on the railway embankment and not paying their money to enter the enclosed areas!

The walk from the Plough Inn to the ground is said to have been 200 yards, pass the pleasure grounds and bowling green. The walkway alongside the Plough is 200 yards to that field (No.226). Also, the embankment is accessed by two pathways. One from "Northfield Lane" and the other from Ealing Road. So giving easy access to those wishing to view the game without paying for it!!

This field is also the one next to the field, used later, named as the Cross Road's Ground. The former home of Brentford Celtic FC.

Any views on this? I'm just being a bit picky! :)

Here's a map of the area circa 1894.
  • red star - Plough Inn
  • red arrow - just over 200 yards distance
  • red rectangles - two pitches (approx size)
  • red circle - Bramley Gardens (as now)
  • red pentagon - Shotter's Field
  • red decagon - Cross Road's Ground
View attachment 23122

A map overlay is here: Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland

(to access the overlay, click off the box then in the bottom left is the "opacity" slider. Move that around, you'll see the new and the old. (y)
In general, he has an excellent knowledge. The thing is, we'll probably never know for sure the exact locations.
 

spirebee

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Brentford Celtic FC are less well known. Little is written about them in the newspapers of the period. No mention of when or where they were founded. Another Brentford junior club who played local park football. No leagues are mentioned. This Club amalgamated with Brentford FC in the summer of 1898. They too played at the Cross Road's Ground Little Ealing. The merger allowed Brentford FC to put out four XI's!! Firsts, reserves, "B" and a "C" XI. No player of note seemed to make it into the First XI. Most playing for the B & C XI's.
I guess the green and yellow seats at LR are a nod for the Brentford Celtic connection. Nice touch. :fishing:
 

Shamrock_Bee

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A very interesting and enjoyable watch. Griffin Park became the perfect home; the home they were looking around for and allowed the club to grow and be sustainable. Whilst we're moving away from that home isn't it ironic and heart warming to have the new stadium pretty much back where it all started!? In a strange way Brentford fc are actually going home.
 

Dave Twydell

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Thanks for all the positive remarks re. this video. Apologies for the couple of - fortunately minor - corrections, i.e. Clifden Road (not Clinton) - no excuses, I’ve walked down it so many times, and Kew/Kew Bridge, etc.: ‘Kew to Kew’ I thought was a neat title - should have made it ‘Kew Bridge to Kew Bridge’ to be more accurate!

As you can see (here) I was very limited in time for narration coupled with lack of visual material. A lot more could have been said, just about the grounds. With regard to Benn’s Field - as pointed out by Wanderer Paul - a brief(ish) explanation: (unless you have the O.S. maps, you will have to pause the video where they occur!)
I have contradicted myself from that I said in the Griffin Park book. On reflection, Field 226 could easily fit in two pitches, is one large field, is a good distance from The Plough, and the one nearest alongside the embankment would support the ‘free’ view. Against this , the footpath was diagonally across the field and would have encroached on the two pitches. The field(s) would also be difficult to enclose. Also where were the Pleasure grounds? The entrance would be via the arch beside the Pub and along the footpath to field 226. Although they could have been the tree-lined field behind Rochester House, or would that have been too small, and could have been easier to access via Little Ealing Lane. Fields 228 and the adjacent one to the north is also far from the Plough, provides two separate fields, has the embankment on one side of one pitch, has no footpath encroachment (but probably one along the east side). The Northfields Avenue side would at least be easier to enclose. Although would they have been big enough? The map used in 100 years at Griffin Park assumes field 225, which I now think is definitely wrong (notes, etc, at the time suggested that this was right). This would have abutted field 224 (Cross Roads ground) - which due to the closeness suggests less likely that they would have moved to Shotters Field and then back to virtually the same location.

All options are up to conjecture, and are unlikely to ever be defined exactly. At least Field 224, the Cross Roads ground is fairly certain to be right, for 223 would not be literally at the ‘Cross Roads’. Attached are the locations.

Possibly a charity walk (or drive) to all the grounds can be organised in the New Year (2.7 miles for the abbreviated journey and 4.9 for the full!). I will also prepare a fully detailed route map.
 

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wanderer paul

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Thanks Dave.👍

Something to go into further, once this place is a little more accessible!😁

Try and source the owners of the fields in the area. There must be tithe maps of landowners?

It’s just that one old ground that needs to be pinpointed. 👍
 
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@rebus Are you agreeing with where Benn's Field was located? I believe it was behind The Plough Inn (as in your 100Yrs of GP book) and NOT up towards the station at Northfields. The film is suggesting it's towards Bramley Gardens but, looking at the field boundaries, the ground wouldn't get two pitches marked out on it. However, the field boundaries show that the field (No.226 as shown in your book), behind the Plough and stretching from Little Ealing Lane right up to the railway embankments, is the one Brenford FC used. The newspaper match reports nearly always mention those cheap-skate supporters standing on the railway embankment and not paying their money to enter the enclosed areas!
I believe I have found a flaw in your hypothesis. The OS symbol for a cutting and embankment are quite similar and easily mistaken, especially on a low-resolution map. However the area circled in green is a cutting, NOT an embankment. You can see this quite clearly from viewing the video below.

However, there IS an embankment (circled in cyan) on the road leading up to Northfield station, which, of course, would be easily accessible from the road and from the pub. Looking at the StreetView scene I have snipped (again below) in Bramley Road looking back to Northfield, the embankment is clear with the walls of both the each adjacent front garden being built higher on the left, and the same happening with the low, railing-topped, wall on the left.






1605568931790.png


1605569345997.png
 

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If the above is correct then this may be the position of the Benn's field pitch

1605570205598.png
 
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Although I know the history,proud to actually hear rather than read about my great grandad Charles Benn the owner of The Plough and Benn’s field.Great watch all of it thanks for putting it up here will show it to my Bees mad grandson Jack.
Not sure if you've seen this page before Bill, but it lists the following Benns as landlords of the Plough

1890/William James Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1894/William James Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1896/William James Benn/../../../Kelly's Directory *
1899/Mrs Julia A Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1907/Mrs Julia Ann Benn/../../../Kelly's Directory *
1914/Edwin & Miss Rosetta Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1926/Edward & Miss Rosetta Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1933/Edward Benn & Miss Rosetta Benn/../../../Kelly's Directory *
1937/E & R Benn/../../../Post Office Directory

Also no Charles Benn however.

 

Bill Benn

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Not sure if you've seen this page before Bill, but it lists the following Benns as landlords of the Plough

1890/William James Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1894/William James Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1896/William James Benn/../../../Kelly's Directory *
1899/Mrs Julia A Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1907/Mrs Julia Ann Benn/../../../Kelly's Directory *
1914/Edwin & Miss Rosetta Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1926/Edward & Miss Rosetta Benn/../../../Post Office Directory
1933/Edward Benn & Miss Rosetta Benn/../../../Kelly's Directory *
1937/E & R Benn/../../../Post Office Directory

Also no Charles Benn however.

Interesting I will check out the names on the family tree that was produced by my late father 8 years ago that goes way before then
 
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Should add that it is very likely that the original embankment to carry Northfield Ave over the railway would have been much steeper than it is today. It probably would have been made a lot shallower when the housing that is there today was developed.
 

wanderer paul

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I picked up a Charles Benn too. Not sure where from though, maybe the 100y of GP book? I didn’t check it either.

Looking at the 1891 census, it is James W Benn at The Plough Inn.

The Plough Inn, Laurel Court, Twyford Abbey Ealing, Brentford, Middlesex, England.

James WBennHeadMarriedMale361855Licensed VictuallerEaling, Middlesex, England
JuliaBennWifeMarriedFemale311860-London, Middlesex, England
FrederickBennSonSingleMale71884ScholarEaling, Middlesex, England
RosettaBennDaughter-Female61885ScholarEaling, Middlesex, England
MaudBennDaughter-Female51886ScholarEaling, Middlesex, England
VictoriaBennDaughter-Female41887ScholarEaling, Middlesex, England
TeddieBennSon-Male11890-Ealing, Middlesex, England
-Cobbler-SingleFemale161875General ServantBrentford, Middlesex, England
CharlesAvery-WidowerMale601831PotmanTemple Bar
 

wanderer paul

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Charles A Benn was the younger brother of James William Benn. Both were Market Gardeners before 1890.

It looks like Charles A Benn moved to Aldershot by the 1891 Census and was married to Mary Jane Whiting. Noted as a farmer.
 

wanderer paul

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A bit off topic but this, as I said, is the one ground that isn’t as well known as the others.

I see where both possibilities could be correct.

The area/field had to accommodate two pitches too.

It is known that the lands east of Northfield Lane, north of Little Ealing Lane, west of Ealing Road and south of the railway embankment/cutting was used as market gardens. It’s known that parts of it were owned by the Steel family (Market gardeners).

Finding the land registry, of who owned what field, is the one piece of missing paperwork.

I’m sure it’ll be found/sourced. Just waiting for the C-19 virus to go away! 😁
 
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It’s known that parts of it were owned by the Steel family (Market gardeners).
I am not sure that they owned it throughout the period in question. They certainly owner large amounts of land north of the railway as orchards. They may have purchased that land south of the railway later in order to develop it.
 

wanderer paul

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Benn’s Field was still being used as a football ground and, even, as a cricket pitch into the early 1900’s.

Brentford FC used the ground/area as a training pitch up to 1903/04. It was also used to hold trial matches for local Amateurs too.

After October 1904, any mention of Benn’s Field disappears from the newspapers.
 

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