Thomas Frank - Signs to June 2023 (58 Viewers)

Indian Bee

Active member
Joined
10 Feb 2001
Messages
8,939
Reaction score
1,639
Location
Manhattan
I still don't know why TF thought it would be good idea to drop Pinnock for Derby away after we got a clean sheet against Blackburn and bring Jansson straight back in playing two right footed central defenders. Our first half against Derby was exceptional but downhill since in performance in part but in results totally.

We needed a change from Saturday and I feel TF is stubborn at times like he was towards the end of last season when he continued with BM.
 

dickie

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2014
Messages
41
Reaction score
10
Frank is a good manager in the sense of improving players and therefore improving their monetary value. He doesn't help himself by 'talking up' poor performances though.
Is this the difference between good manager and good coach? Frank more of a coach than manager of the team hence why he doesn’t seem to be able to change things up?
 

Bangor Bee

Bangor Bee
Joined
25 Mar 2002
Messages
2,042
Reaction score
105
Location
Menai Bridge, Anglesey
All I will say is that the ultra-predictable formation and substitutions, with Forss getting 7 minutes on the wing every game, are doing us no favours. I think that's glaringly obvious.
 

spirebee

Active member
Joined
1 Jul 2012
Messages
1,478
Reaction score
56
Location
Fordingbridge
I thought we'd be top half after a few week of the season, so couldn't believe that TF had got us so fired up and getting great results, which got us touching the top, but that's now a distant memory.
He's obviously a good championship manager, but is he the type that has extra tricks up his sleeve when the chips are down, which gets us over the line? I doubt it now.
 

Aussie Bee

Active member
Joined
28 Dec 2000
Messages
5,990
Reaction score
39
Location
Perth Australia
It's the fact he won't change anything from week to week that is the most frustrating - what did Einstein say about insanity and doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
 

Bridge Bee

Active member
Joined
13 Apr 2009
Messages
3,455
Reaction score
233
I think Thomas Frank deserves massive credit for getting us to third in the table.

Last season we saw the best team any of us have ever seen.

Take out the front three of Watkins, Benrahma and Mbeumo (here in name only this year)

Take out Norgaard and Jansson for virtually a whole season/half a season

Take out Henry and Dasilva for the final third of the season.

Not allowing for Toney coming in, that leaves THREE of last season‘s outfield first choice team to have had a relatively uninterrupted season.

Most of you lot live on Mars.
Last season we had the best team ever as we had the best players ever. And he still has 90% of those players. I think many a manager would’ve got us to the play offs last season.

Performances are on the slide when we’re spending more than ever on transfer fees and wages. He needs to get a better tune out of quite a few of the squad.
 

Voice from the Braemar

Well-known member
Joined
25 Jan 2001
Messages
19,752
Reaction score
939
Location
finest Surrey
Want to see him fired up for the next game with a skinhead. Need something drastic and maybe a good clean clipped head will do it!
a proper 1971 suedehead will do.............i think he;ll just look like a real weirdo with a number 1...........can someone tell him the barbers are open next monday please
 

Voice from the Braemar

Well-known member
Joined
25 Jan 2001
Messages
19,752
Reaction score
939
Location
finest Surrey
I think Thomas Frank deserves massive credit for getting us to third in the table.

Last season we saw the best team any of us have ever seen.

Take out the front three of Watkins, Benrahma and Mbeumo (here in name only this year)

Take out Norgaard and Jansson for virtually a whole season/half a season

Take out Henry and Dasilva for the final third of the season.

Not allowing for Toney coming in, that leaves THREE of last season‘s outfield first choice team to have had a relatively uninterrupted season.

Most of you lot live on Mars.
more like surrey towers in addlestone ;)
 

Twickenhamben

Member
Joined
3 Feb 2011
Messages
434
Reaction score
123
We have an incredible scouting network and with it some fabulous players..... but we have a coach who is unable to make changes, find a plan B..... we are living through “if plan A fails do plan A better”. Same substitutions, same patterns of play, coaching on autopilot.
 

Mr Cynical

Well-known member
Joined
1 Jul 2000
Messages
13,589
Reaction score
2,690
Location
London
It's the fact he won't change anything from week to week that is the most frustrating - what did Einstein say about insanity and doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
We were set up quite differently today. Roerslev was almost playing as a winger for most of the game he was so far forward, Canos spent a lot of time inside playing in the hole, MBS got forward a lot, Mbeumo was wide left. The one thing I would criticise him for is sticking with the Norgaard/Janelt combo. I don't think you can blame him, 99% of people on here were desperate for it but Janelt can't play that role. The Forss sub is generally pointless I agree although at that point today there's no harm in chucking another body forward in the hope of bagging something. Fosu didn't bring anything to the party again and I'd be tempted to bring one of the B team attackers onto the bench as they're flying at the mo..
 

IslandBee

Now Off-Island Bee
Joined
29 Sep 2009
Messages
6,715
Reaction score
347
Location
New Milton, Hants
Last season we had the best team ever as we had the best players ever. And he still has 90% of those players. I think many a manager would’ve got us to the play offs last season.

Performances are on the slide when we’re spending more than ever on transfer fees and wages. He needs to get a better tune out of quite a few of the squad.
I think you are forgetting that at the start of last season we were close to being a scratch side (a brand new spine to the team) and had a centre-forward who had never played consistently in that position before.

Sure, we were an excellent team by January but TF deserves enormous credit for getting us to that position from where he started
 

IslandBee

Now Off-Island Bee
Joined
29 Sep 2009
Messages
6,715
Reaction score
347
Location
New Milton, Hants
I can't defend two defensive midfielders at home to sh*t like Brum
I can when they are CN and VJ and the latter has consistently played number 8 at earlier stages in his career. The system looked fine first half so not sure they were the problem to be honest.
 

Ealing Bee

Well-known member
Joined
5 Jun 2002
Messages
10,465
Reaction score
1,120
Location
Now Chiswick (proud to be a YIMBY)
I've not really been following this thread before now, so apologies if I'm just repeating other posts etc.

Anyhow, I've long accepted that Iike 90% of fans, I'm not qualified to critique a manager, not least because I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. And I do accept that if TF is good enough for Mr. Benham and the Board, then he should be good enough for the rest of us, esp since TF is still relatively new in the top job and so deserves time to learn and develop.

But (and you've probably guessed that was coming!), I must confess to having one nagging doubt which won't go away.

Basically, most managers/head coaches are a combination of tactician and motivator, with some relying more on one than the other. But while TF clearly understands the tactical side, I'm not sure he's got the necessary motivational skills to extract the maximum from his team. And this is especially important when missing key personnel through injury etc.

Tonight was a good example. During the 1st half, we established our superiority and saw that Brum weren't posing any great threat, but were happy to come away with a goalless draw - fair enough.

But instead of coming out in the 2nd half and really going all-out at them, instead all we saw was more of the same from the 1st half: patient, possession football, which Brum became increasingly comfortable with.

Now I'm not saying we should go "full Dave Bassett" on them and just start booting everything that moves. But at the same time, I'd like to have seen more urgency and passion from them - a few meaty tackles, for instance, or even a yellow card!

At the very least, when you bring on substitutes in a game like that, you'd expect them to be straining at the leash to show what they can do and why they should have been in from the start, but no, their introduction made no real difference.

And tonight was by no means the first time we've seen this over the last 2 or 3 months.

Or maybe it's just me?
 

Owlsmoor_Bee

Moderator
Joined
22 Aug 2005
Messages
11,107
Reaction score
134
Location
The Queen's County
He’s lacking in confidence. Much like the team. Frightened IMO to shake things up too much lest it backfires completely so continuing to play safe and rinsing and repeating with the subs.

with the loss of the ball players and pace from the side, and with no senior wing backs available, there’s an argument for being brave and opting for three centre halves with Canos and Fosu as wing backs.

Certainly, no wing backs and Vitaly and Christian together just doesn’t work IMO. It strips us of creativity.
 

North Northants Bee

Formerly known as "ketteringbee"
Joined
9 Mar 2006
Messages
201
Reaction score
111
Location
Kettering
I don’t think TF is the issue if I am honest, it’s like asking a chef to prepare a beef Wellington from sausages....
Again we created a guilt edge chance that the players didn’t finish because they are not good enough (I’m not saying the players can’t play well or don’t have skill but to me good players are consistently performing and have 1 bad game in 10 and not 3 good games in 10). He has been given/left with a squad which had a lot of similar players and so I’m not sure what changes he can actually make as they don’t get much time on the training pitch. He went 3 at the back at Stoke and got absolutely caned on here when we were 3-0 down!!! I think he has done a very good job with what he has got, is he probably a bit too nice sometimes...yes but there are worse qualities. We miss JDS big time as he is premier league quality and he can drag us through winning matches. Rico is a big miss just because of his pace and it gives the opposition something to worry about but even he was off form before he got injured. Again TF is not the one who signs the players etc
 

Balders Bee

Active member
Joined
2 Jan 2001
Messages
6,808
Reaction score
372
Location
Epsom, Surrey
Not for me BB. The two saves were camera saves, i would expect any keeper to make them.

Cant keep holding onto the statistics of being top scorers, top XG, the justice league. We are crawling into the PO's.................... Even that may be too quick.

Sorry im normally positive but the last 2 months have driven me insane. Thrown away such a good chance. We look destined to end this season with disappointment. :(
Disagree re the saves. Etheridge's positioning was excellent all evening which made the saves look easy not the other way around. He is a good keeper and performed well.

I agree that Stats can be misleading but we are the leading scorers in this decision which is counter intuitive to a defence first mantra, more pragmatic and less free flowing without doubt but it's conceding poor goals at the back that's been the issue for me - I however except tonight was our failing in converting one of several good opportunities. I'm not a TF apologist and think his sub changes and adherence to one system or style of play is too Conservative but that's where my criticism stops.

Were a distant third to the best two most consistent teams in the division and that's about right. We will comfortably make the Play Off's and then it's really up to TF to show his mettle.
 

Herbert

Formerly known as newbee79
Joined
2 Jul 2011
Messages
10,940
Reaction score
304
Location
Northolt
We have an incredible scouting network and with it some fabulous players..... but we have a coach who is unable to make changes, find a plan B..... we are living through “if plan A fails do plan A better”. Same substitutions, same patterns of play, coaching on autopilot.
We have a fabulous scouting network which has been hit hard with recent changes in rules.
As promising as a lot of our youngsters may be, our squad is pretty thin.
A couple of injuries and we are where we are.

I’m struggling to put it on Frank, What is he supposed to do with the limitations he has ?
 

TadB

Active member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
2,438
Reaction score
251
Location
Tadworth, Surrey
I can when they are CN and VJ and the latter has consistently played number 8 at earlier stages in his career. The system looked fine first half so not sure they were the problem to be honest.
If you listened to Vitality's interview for the German press you would have heard him say the he was signed as a Number, 8 and not as a DM. Playing where he did tonight he was not out of position, it is his regular position. not as good as Marcondes maybe, although many others would disagree, but not out of position. So you are right to point this out as so many are saying VJ and CN cannot play together, but they should be able to, and in time they may well form a strong partnership, but so far have only had a handful of games together, and pressure games at that.
 

Hakonen_72

Member
Joined
14 May 2017
Messages
324
Reaction score
17
Location
Tampere, Finland
Just an observation but I did not realize before that Frank was Brøndby IF coach when Teemu Pukki was playing there. Pukki actually peaked and got more goals after Frank left and the playing system was changed. I have wondered how it was possible nobody saw Pukki's potential in Brentford (with all the Danish connections) but I did not realize Thomas Frank actually know him so well.
 

EGHAM_BEE

Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
810
Reaction score
111
Location
Philippines
I try and not be too critical in these times as we are punching as a club our size, however its impossible not to get frustrated. TF is without doubt a good coach, intelligent person and all round decent guy. None of us know whats going on behind the scenes at the highest level so maybe his hands are tied with formation/selection etc. I just feel the great managers are also great man managers and I am not sure this is Thomas's strong point. Anyway all is not lost and he may well go down in history yet but my confidence is draining week by week.
 

shouldbee

Active member
Joined
20 Jun 2005
Messages
8,557
Reaction score
156
Location
Richmond
....TF.....like any other manager....is only as good as the players he has at his disposal...been said ad infinitum....but he and our team have been truly f***ed by the loss of two absolutely key players.
Bang on. There are people on here constantly moaning because he doesn't make substitutions earlier. Let's just face facts he doesn't have the squad. He starts with his best 11 and that's pretty much it. Last night he bought on Marcondes and Ghoddos and we looked worse, neither of them made any difference so what was the point ?
Canos was the only forward player who bust a gut and understandably he runs out of steam. People can talk about selection and formation all night but the fact is last at least 4/5 who started and the subs who came on just aren't good enough, this is not down to TF.
 

sid

Member
Joined
24 Aug 2012
Messages
276
Reaction score
10
Thomas is Brentford through and through a genuine man,
I don't think he is a motivator.We have been playing aweful
for eight games now and nothing has changed since we
lost to QPR. Let's live in the here and now not in the past.
There's an old saying, your'e only as good as your'e last game.
I think Thomas has taken us as far as he can, maybe there is an
experienced coach out there that we could hire to give him some help.
 

brentfordfc4ever

Active member
Joined
13 Nov 2009
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
237
He has us 3rd behind two premier league squads. The football hasn't been pretty, but we are 3rd ffs.

Please please use the attacking midfielders from the off

He not done alot wrong has he?
 

West Wilts Bee

Active member
Joined
9 Apr 2001
Messages
7,036
Reaction score
602
Location
wiltshire
Bang on. There are people on here constantly moaning because he doesn't make substitutions earlier. Let's just face facts he doesn't have the squad. He starts with his best 11 and that's pretty much it. Last night he bought on Marcondes and Ghoddos and we looked worse, neither of them made any difference so what was the point ?
Canos was the only forward player who bust a gut and understandably he runs out of steam. People can talk about selection and formation all night but the fact is last at least 4/5 who started and the subs who came on just aren't good enough, this is not down to TF.
i don’t think its Thomas. He has been let down by his players. Marcondes Ghoddos, and i have to throw Bryan in just not good enough.no support for Ivan, has hurt us, and you have to ask the question where would we be without him? A goalkeeper that is a keystone cop and has cost us too many points. You cant keep defending give away goals. I think we are in for a rebuild, and Thomas will be a key man. Our squad has been pulled through by our better players, and they will not be here next season imo. It’s two steps forward, three steps back.
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
273
Reaction score
197
Is this the difference between good manager and good coach? Frank more of a coach than manager of the team hence why he doesn’t seem to be able to change things up?
Thomas is good for the business but as time goes on I'm not convinced he is good for the football side of things and achieving the ultimate aim, if the aim is actually promotion.

We pay good wages even by championship standard, we're nowhere bottom of the wage bill and over the last two season's have had the best, most exciting front three the championship has seen, this season we've the best striker.

As a coach he ticks all the boxes in terms of developing talent, improving players and I'm convinced he was the one who got Ollie upto England standard. He'll likely do the same for Rico.

The brutal reality though is a good manager/tactican, reader of the match ingame would have easily got us promoted in the last two seasons, forget our size etc, he had some amount of quality to work with. If we fall short in May and that is looking likely then I do believe a review is required. Personally I'd start with his coaching team and assessing if there is money there to add someone to work alongside them or it might require a more ruthless decision, where Thomas is asked to change his backroom team. I don't think the board will be happy if these two Brentford team's weren't promoted, stats surely show we should have been.
 

westendbee

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2012
Messages
475
Reaction score
106
I think Thomas Frank deserves massive credit for getting us to third in the table.

Last season we saw the best team any of us have ever seen.

Take out the front three of Watkins, Benrahma and Mbeumo (here in name only this year)

Take out Norgaard and Jansson for virtually a whole season/half a season

Take out Henry and Dasilva for the final third of the season.

Not allowing for Toney coming in, that leaves THREE of last season‘s outfield first choice team to have had a relatively uninterrupted season.

Most of you lot live on Mars.
And after 39 games last season, with the best team any of us have ever seen, we had just 66 points.
 

TheHairdresser

Active member
Joined
22 Dec 2018
Messages
1,826
Reaction score
76
And after 39 games last season, with the best team any of us have ever seen, we had just 66 points.
I doubt you'll find one person on here who'll argue that this division isn't populated by any number of 'bigger' teams treading water this season.

Would this season's Reading, Barnsley and Swansea be anywhere near their current pts total(s) playing against 2019/20 Championship sides?
 

keefor

On a break.
Joined
9 Jan 2001
Messages
716
Reaction score
5
Location
Southamptonshire
Is this the difference between good manager and good coach? Frank more of a coach than manager of the team hence why he doesn’t seem to be able to change things up?
Okay he's decent at coaching players to improve; I'm less convinced by his management within game situations though.
 

HerefordB

formerly known as GloucesterB
Joined
9 Jan 2006
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
32
He is a very good coach and manages his players well. But he isn't a great tactician, and seems rather obstinate. Also there are some questions about his objectivity towards certain players
Anyway, he won't be here next season. The strain of living overseas, presumably absent from his family, the pressures of being in the public eye and having so little free time must take its toll on anyone.
 

westendbee

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2012
Messages
475
Reaction score
106
He is a very good coach and manages his players well. But he isn't a great tactician, and seems rather obstinate. Also there are some questions about his objectivity towards certain players
Anyway, he won't be here next season. The strain of living overseas, presumably absent from his family, the pressures of being in the public eye and having so little free time must take its toll on anyone.
I thought his family are over here with him?
and I’m sure he would love to have a crack at the Premier League next season!!!
 

Delbee

Active member
Joined
14 Nov 2006
Messages
8,948
Reaction score
600
Location
West Middlesex
I doubt you'll find one person on here who'll argue that this division isn't populated by any number of 'bigger' teams treading water this season.

Would this season's Reading, Barnsley and Swansea be anywhere near their current pts total(s) playing against 2019/20 Championship sides?
Where were Barnsley last game last season , Let me think who was it that beat Swansea in the Play Off Semi Final, not sure about Reading
 

Isleworth_Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
22,639
Reaction score
1,235
Location
Basingstoke
Lovely bloke, but needs to get this team firing.

Be brave, have a change up in the formation.

Go 3-5-2 push Canos and Fosu wide and they can track back if needed. Then get BM up there with Toney. Lets have a go at teams.
 

Les Beeavinu

Administrator
Joined
5 Aug 2002
Messages
56,814
Reaction score
2,313
Location
Sandhurst
Those who are calling for a formation change - could someone explain in footballing strategy terms what this tactical switch will give us?
 

Isleworth_Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
22,639
Reaction score
1,235
Location
Basingstoke
Those who are calling for a formation change - could someone explain in footballing strategy terms what this tactical switch will give us?
Maybe a Brentford player within 20 yards of Toney? So every time the ball is lumped up to him he isn't on his own battling 2-3 defenders.

Just a thought.
 

The Pipe

Active member
Joined
7 Feb 2005
Messages
9,769
Reaction score
734
Location
churchinford Devon
We play, we recover, we have a simple training session to keep things ticking over, we travel we play week on week on week

just when do posters suggest we have the time to bed in any new systems?? Pretty much all Thomas can do is shuffle players about keeping the same basic style, dread to think where we would be if some of the experts on here were allowed to select team and tactics
 

alexcavell

Active member
Joined
16 Jul 2005
Messages
2,900
Reaction score
151
Location
Tufnell Park
He is a very good coach and manages his players well. But he isn't a great tactician, and seems rather obstinate. Also there are some questions about his objectivity towards certain players
Anyway, he won't be here next season. The strain of living overseas, presumably absent from his family, the pressures of being in the public eye and having so little free time must take its toll on anyone.
I'm not sure if he'd necessarily go back to Denmark, but I imagine he'll start applying for "bigger" jobs elsewhere next season if we don't go up, while his stock is still high.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
11,578
Reaction score
1,489
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Just an observation but I did not realize before that Frank was Brøndby IF coach when Teemu Pukki was playing there. Pukki actually peaked and got more goals after Frank left and the playing system was changed. I have wondered how it was possible nobody saw Pukki's potential in Brentford (with all the Danish connections) but I did not realize Thomas Frank actually know him so well.
Pukki’s done very well at Norwich but his record at Brondby was no better than Marcondes’ but 5 years older and after indifferent times at Celtic, Schalke and Seville.
 

Hippobee

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2021
Messages
218
Reaction score
194
Location
Farnborough
We play, we recover, we have a simple training session to keep things ticking over, we travel we play week on week on week

just when do posters suggest we have the time to bed in any new systems?? Pretty much all Thomas can do is shuffle players about keeping the same basic style, dread to think where we would be if some of the experts on here were allowed to select team and tactics
Obviously, there is less time between games. We all know that. However, some teams have adapted their tactics to play us. And I wonder where the Watford manager found the time to get his ideas and beliefs across which led to a sharp up turn in form. Just because it's harder, doesn't mean it can't be done. It's more likely a high risk strategy that the coaching team don't believe will make a significant difference, so they stick with tried and tested, believing it will 'come good.'
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom