Toney or Watkins

Kingston Bee

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Toney, he is a natural where Watkins was developed into a central role. Both good players but it shows from time to time.
 

jbee

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Toney isn’t as fast on the break but his hold up and link play is better and he’s a leader. Both great finishers and future England internationals.
 

pompeybee

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We've been incredibly fortunate (or have had the scouting nous) to have both of them, but Watkins gets the nod for me. He's shown that he can fit straight in at the next level, whereas I still wonder whether Toney is in the category of 'flat track bully'. More than happy to have him though!
 

Wise old Bee

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I know which of them I would prefer when it comes to taking penalties, otherwise I'm not sure that valid comparisons can be made although how many goals would Ollie have scored in this side?
 

Invipai

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Honestly...Toney is better, but Watkins. Watkins brings the midfield into play more, and his versatility could be crucial. I felt we were more of a team with Watkins (and Maupay).

But yes, both are incredible so I'd be happy with either! Several Prem teams are probably thinking they should have taken the chance on Toney...
 

jbee

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Honestly...Toney is better, but Watkins. Watkins brings the midfield into play more, and his versatility could be crucial. I felt we were more of a team with Watkins (and Maupay).

But yes, both are incredible so I'd be happy with either! Several Prem teams are probably thinking they should have taken the chance on Toney...
Watkins was playing behind Benrahma, that’s why the midfield was more involved, but he still had a tendency to get isolated as he has at Villa. Maupay was the best we’ve had as a linkman but his finishing wasn’t on a par with the other two.

When you think we’ve also had Gray, Hogan, Vibe and Forss in the last 6 years it’s incredible.
 

gbems92

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Think if we had held onto benrahma OR Ollie this year we would be romping this league but unfortunate timing. I wouldnt want to choose out of the two though, theyre both great in slightly different ways, lucky to have had both, as mentioned
 

Indian Bee

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Think if we had held onto benrahma OR Ollie this year we would be romping this league but unfortunate timing. I wouldnt want to choose out of the two though, theyre both great in slightly different ways, lucky to have had both, as mentioned
or to think if we had signed Toney last January when we were in for him we would be in the Premiership already.
 

gbems92

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or to think if we had signed Toney last January when we were in for him we would be in the Premiership already.
Who would he have replaced though? Would we really drop the leagues top goalscorer? Or benrahma?
 

Indian Bee

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Who would he have replaced though? Would we really drop the leagues top goalscorer? Or benrahma?
we would have had an option from the bench at the least and not rely exclusively in the front 3 for our remaining games last season.
 

Wooburn Bee

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Who would he have replaced though? Would we really drop the leagues top goalscorer? Or benrahma?
Not the right thread but if we did make premier league next season and Benrahma still just a peripheral figure at west ham that Moyes not fussed over not impossible a deal could be done to “sell” him back to us. Wages may or may not be an issue but doubt west ham pay big bucks that would make impossible for us to do such a deal.
Villa have partly built their side round Watkins so he will succeed, with Benrahma opposite is true and his form will suffer with just bit part roles in that team.
 

Mjlumley

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Benrahma reputedly on 23K per week - £ 6mln over a 5 year contract - might be a challenge ?
 

gbems92

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Benrahma reputedly on 23K per week - £ 6mln over a 5 year contract - might be a challenge ?
23k(if true which i doubt) a week in the prem is peanuts, i would bet toney is on more than that here, probably pontus too and others not far off
 

dougieb

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Toney is a ready made striker. The chances we create were crying out for that. He was the complete striker when he arrived and will leave an even better player. Watkins was superb but anyone can see Toney will be a far better striker.
 

sheffbee

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No sense in dwelling in the past we have moved on and I think Toney will be prove to be the better all round striker. Interestingly I speak to a number of lads up here about football in general and they nearly all say they don't understand how we continually sell our best players but still evolve and improve our standing every year. Beats me too if I'm honest ! All credit to the D. of Fs and MB.
 

A Real Mysteron

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As a striker there is no comparison.
Ivan is also physically stronger, better in the air and holds the ball up better.
He is also fantastic at defending set pieces.
Is also far more vocal, and does more overall for the team.
He also has a bit of edge which we haven’t had upfront since Maupay left.
I genuinely think, although he was good for us, we had Villa’s pants down with regard to the fee for Watkins.
 

fencer/bee

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I see OW has been taken off penalty duty for Villa for not converting , IT penalty's worry me with the 2yrd walk up, but the keeper gets no where near them :owusu:
 
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AB

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I see OW has been taken off penalty duty for Villa for not converting , IT penalty's worry me with the 2yrd walk up, but the keeper gets no where near them :owusu:
Toney’s penalties are pure technique. Amazing he can get so much power with so little backlift and momentum but the minimal steps to the ball seem to let him concentrate on placement and mean there are fewer variables to go wrong in taking the kick. He’ll not get caught out by a divot on the run up or have time to be distracted by anything. I’m slightly surprised few if any others do this regularly. Maybe the power element is too hard for most to pull off. He’s probably a great poker player as there’s no obvious tell about where he’s going and I bet he sinks every putt on the golf course. Unerring.
 

rebus

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Toney’s penalties are pure technique. Amazing he can get so much power with so little backlift and momentum but the minimal steps to the ball seem to let him concentrate on placement and mean there are fewer variables to go wrong in taking the kick. He’ll not get caught out by a divot on the run up or have time to be distracted by anything. I’m slightly surprised few if any others do this regularly. Maybe the power element is too hard for most to pull off. He’s probably a great poker player as there’s no obvious tell about where he’s going and I bet he sinks every putt on the golf course. Unerring.
The goal he scored at Nottingham Forest was fantastic. As you write, pure technique.
 
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badgerbee

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Still too early to compare IMHO.
Will only be possible once both have had a couple of seasons in the PL.....
What I would say though is, I don't think I've seen a better performance by a Bees CF over a full 90 minutes, than that by OW in the home Play Off SF v Swansea.
Outstanding that night.
 

A Real Mysteron

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min the interests of debate, explain why you think we aren’t.

in terms of why we are;
We have a better structure without somebody roaming around at will.
Our set piece delivery has been generally better.
We feel more like a team.
We are grinding out points from games we would have previously lost.
Without the increased opportunity to play we would not have seen the rebirth of Sergi Canos.
Our midfield is stronger physically without him. Teams don’t bully us anymore.
People aren’t constantly panicking about whether he will be in January/ end of season delete as applicable.
 
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min the interests of debate, explain why you think we aren’t.

in terms of why we are;
We have a better structure without somebody roaming around at will.
Our set piece delivery has been generally better.
We feel more like a team.
We are grinding out points from games we would have previously lost.
Without the increased opportunity to play we would not have seen the rebirth of Sergi Canos.
Our midfield is stronger physically without him. Teams don’t bully us anymore.
People aren’t constantly panicking about whether he will be in January/ end of season delete as applicable.
When we have replaced his 17 goals and 10 assists I might agree with you. Until then ....
 

A Real Mysteron

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I don’t have the stats to work it out,
But how many less goals have we scored in total this season compared to after the same amount of games last season?
 

gbems92

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min the interests of debate, explain why you think we aren’t.

in terms of why we are;
We have a better structure without somebody roaming around at will.
Our set piece delivery has been generally better.
We feel more like a team.
We are grinding out points from games we would have previously lost.
Without the increased opportunity to play we would not have seen the rebirth of Sergi Canos.
Our midfield is stronger physically without him. Teams don’t bully us anymore.
People aren’t constantly panicking about whether he will be in January/ end of season delete as applicable.
i will agree about the set pieces! I think by the end of his time here though he was definitely a team player and did his fair share defensively. The draws we have "ground out" this season could have been turned into wins with abit of his creativity. We had terrific structure and one of the best defences in the league last year with him in there. IIRC our worst spells last year were at the start when he was injured and feb when his dad sadly passed so he
I don’t have the stats to work it out,
But how many less goals have we scored in total this season compared to after the same amount of games last season?
We had the joint best defence last season didnt we, i think benrahma being selfish and not a team player is abit of a myth. Agree about the set pieces though!
 

Mr Cynical

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We are stronger without Benrahma.
My opinion obviously.
sorry but I don’t agree with that. We’ve struggled to replace what he gave us all season and that’s had a huge impact on the end product for the likes of mbeumo, dasilva, Marcondes etc
 

mundee4england

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Toney. I am a massive Watkins fan and his athleticism and positioning in the box were fantastic, but Ivan has that as well as a number of other attributes that put him ahead in my opinion... outright pace would be the only area he falls behind Ollie IMO.

Ivan would have scored a ludicrous amount of goals in last year’s team, and as if you could have improved the front three last year, if we’d signed him in January I can’t even imagine what rotating that front four would achieve!

p.s. totally agree that we miss the Benrahma X factor this year, there were times that teams had to quadruple up on him and that brought even more out of Ollie and Bryan (and others). To say we are stronger without him is a massive reach.
 

rebus

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min the interests of debate, explain why you think we aren’t.

in terms of why we are;
We have a better structure without somebody roaming around at will.
Our set piece delivery has been generally better.
We feel more like a team.
We are grinding out points from games we would have previously lost.
Without the increased opportunity to play we would not have seen the rebirth of Sergi Canos.
Our midfield is stronger physically without him. Teams don’t bully us anymore.
People aren’t constantly panicking about whether he will be in January/ end of season delete as applicable.
Do me a favour. Look at the goal he scored against Fulham. There is no one in our squad that can do that. The rebirth of Canos is nowhere near what Said can bring to the table. Merry Christmas!
 

davewfilms

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Toney is a better number 9,but i would prefer watkins as it allowed us to play a fluid interchangeable front 3 with all capable playing in any of the positions and a nightmare for opposition defenders. But toney is best number 9 i have seen many years for us.
 

upnorthbee

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We are stronger without Benrahma.
My opinion obviously.
You can’t surely think this? I know what you’re implying by the stronger all round team, but Said was probably the most talented player we’ve ever had, and our style of play this season has lacked him immensely at times.
 

A Real Mysteron

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You can’t surely think this? I know what you’re implying by the stronger all round team, but Said was probably the most talented player we’ve ever had, and our style of play this season has lacked him immensely at times.
But would Said have fitted with our style of play this season, which pro rata has delivered more points?
Who knows!
 

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