Wigan Athletic Enter Administration

[rebus]

Classic example of demotivation was when Noades informed half of our squad that their contracts wouldnt be renewed before our playoff with Stoke.

They knew weeks before.

 

[LingfieldBee]

They won't be the only club sadly to fall into administration over the next 6 months.

 

[Oceanbee]

Whatever points deduction decision happens for Wigan, it won’t affect their relegation this season. Only their final position determined by normal games will do that.

So the only effect on Saturday’s game will be Wigan players thinking about who they will play for next season.

With the state of many clubs financially, the old adage comes to mind -

How do you become the millionaire owner of a football club?
You start off by owning a club as a billionaire!

 

[RAF_Patto]

With regards to the talk of them being fired up or not, do people not suspect that the players may have known this was coming for a while? Hence their recent form to try and make up those points.

Announcing it on the 1st July may have been a ploy by their board to claim it is "next season" and therefore get the dedication at the start of the actual next season, it's not worked, but the players were already expecting it.

 

[Oceanbee]

With regards to the talk of them being fired up or not, do people not suspect that the players may have known this was coming for a while? Hence their recent form to try and make up those points.

Announcing it on the 1st July may have been a ploy by their board to claim it is "next season" and therefore get the dedication at the start of the actual next season, it's not worked, but the players were already expecting it.

If the 12 points deduction makes them in the final relegation places this season, then the 12 points will not be enforced, and they will start next season with the 12 points deduction.

If the 12 points when deducted this season, does not put them in the final relegation places,then the 12 points will be enforced for this season.

So essentially Wigan are safe in the current season from any deduction making them relegated.They can only be relegated this season through their actual results, not from any points deduction!

 

[Edmundo]

If the 12 points deduction makes them in the final relegation places this season, then the 12 points will not be enforced,

This is incorrect.

The only scenario in which the deduction is carried forward is that they finish in the bottom three before the points deduction is applied.

 

[ruislip bee]

If the 12 points deduction makes them in the final relegation places this season, then the 12 points will not be enforced, and they will start next season with the 12 points deduction.

If the 12 points when deducted this season, does not put them in the final relegation places,then the 12 points will be enforced for this season.

So essentially Wigan are safe in the current season from any deduction making them relegated.They can only be relegated this season through their actual results, not from any points deduction!

Wrong totally the other way around. If they avoid relegation results wise the 12 point deduction will be inflicted this season thus relegating them. If they go down anyway it will be inflicted next season thus they start -12pts. Who told you otherwise?

 

[liverbee]

So everything is fair and hunky dory? No favoured clubs, nor owners?

 

[YorkBee]

tbh the best way it should be done and I know it would make it difficult for us on Saturday is to deduct the points at the moment of going into administration, and that should be right across the board no matter what the club.

 

[BlueJayBee]

With regards to the talk of them being fired up or not, do people not suspect that the players may have known this was coming for a while? Hence their recent form to try and make up those points.

Announcing it on the 1st July may have been a ploy by their board to claim it is "next season" and therefore get the dedication at the start of the actual next season, it's not worked, but the players were already expecting it.

Good point.

 

[TW3Bee]

Wrong totally the other way around. If they avoid relegation results wise the 12 point deduction will be inflicted this season thus relegating them. If they go down anyway it will be inflicted next season thus they start -12pts. Who told you otherwise?

Either way they are relegated.

 

[Edmundo]

Either way they are relegated.

Not if they finish 13 points above the team in 22nd place.

 

[maddogging]

Either way they are relegated.

Far from it....

 

[kevalutonbee]

Not if they finish 13 points above the team in 22nd place.

If their GD is good enough 12 would do it

 

[Oceanbee]

Wrong totally the other way around. If they avoid relegation results wise the 12 point deduction will be inflicted this season thus relegating them. If they go down anyway it will be inflicted next season thus they start -12pts. Who told you otherwise?

I originally heard my version on Sky, so they must have misreported it, or made it sound so complicated that I got it wrong. Either way, apologies.

Maybe I’m still confused, but don’t think it’s yet a foregone conclusion that they will get relegated even with the 12 points deduction theoretically applied now.

Right now, with the deduction they’d be bottom with 38 points. This is only 4 points behind Hull (who have tonight’s match in hand), and 5 points behind Stoke.

With 6 games left they could still make up lost ground and get out of the bottom 3. Then the 12 points deduction will apply next season. Is that right?

So they might fight even harder on Saturday for the points, or they may feel very depressed and not bother. Difficult to know the impact on their players’ minds.

 

[jlove]

The only Wigan points I'm concerned about are the 3 on Saturday. The rest can wait until the end of their season.

 

[TW3Bee]

What it has done though is put a spanner in the works of trying to get Birmingscum and/or QPeeHa relegated.

 

[Edmundo]

With 6 games left they could still make up lost ground and get out of the bottom 3. Then the 12 points deduction will apply next season. Is that right?

No it's not. The only way that the deduction is carried forward to next season is if they would have been relegated anyway, without a points deduction.

 

[Gee Bee]

No it's not. The only way that the deduction is carried forward to next season is if they would have been relegated anyway, without a points deduction.

So if they stayed on 50 points with 6 straight losses and that took them in bottom 3 the 12 points start next season?

 

[Judio1999]

@Oceanbee
Wigan are on 50 points

If they stay on 50 ( or one or two) higher and finish in the bottom three.

That would mean the deduction happens next season


Any other scenario means the 12 comes off now.

To be honest 50 would be very unlikely to go down

 

[Judio1999]

So the Wigan players must think
We are on 38
Six games left
Only 4 points away from Hull and 5 from Stoke

Both of those teams are dreadful

So we have a great chance to stay up
And start in Championship on nil points

 

[Oceanbee]

@Oceanbee
Wigan are on 50 points

If they stay on 50 ( or one or two) higher and finish in the bottom three.

That would mean the deduction happens next season


Any other scenario means the 12 comes off now.

To be honest 50 would be very unlikely to go down

Thanks for the explanation.

It does make you wonder about the fairness of the EFL system for deduction.
Surely, the whole points deduction should be made in the season in which the club went into administration, regardless of league position.

By saying that if on results played, the club is already in the bottom 3, then by deferring the points deduction to next season, the club is getting a double whammy punishment, in my opinion.

It gets relegated, and then it starts the next season in a lower league with a 12 points disadvantage, further punishing it.

Contrast that scenario with the club being outside the bottom 3, then having the 12 points deducted pushing it into the relegation zone.

So it gets relegated, but it starts next season in the lower league with a clean slate on an equal footing with all the other clubs.

Seems a bit odd. But I guess that one reason may be to keep clubs in administration trying to win games, and keep out of the relegation zone, rather than just giving up altogether and losing their remaining games.
This would then unfairly benefit the teams they played in the remaining, post-administration, matches.

Phew. All to complicated - typical EFL rules, which have too many implications instead of being simple and straightforward!

 

[the birds and the bees]

begiining to sound like pompey 2 to me

 

[SpiderBee]

Twelve "interested parties" looking to buy Wigan Athletic FC!

 

[Ealing Bee]

Thanks for the explanation.

It does make you wonder about the fairness of the EFL system for deduction.
Surely, the whole points deduction should be made in the season in which the club went into administration, regardless of league position.

By saying that if on results played, the club is already in the bottom 3, then by deferring the points deduction to next season, the club is getting a double whammy punishment, in my opinion.

The reason they do it this way is to stop clubs picking and choosing exactly when to go into Administration in order to avoid a real "punishment".

For example, if a club which is going down the pan financially is also likely to get relegated anyhow, then they'll just declare Administration immediately, take a (meaningless) points deduction and start next season in the lower division with a clean slate.

But if they've got a fighting chance of staying up, then they'll do the minimum it takes until the season is over and they're safe from relegation, then go into Admin and start the next season with the points deduction, but still in the same Division.

But the way the EFL's rules work presently is that if you screw the books so badly that the club goes bust, then if they don't get you this season, they'll get you the next. And quite right, too (imo).

P.S. As someone noted earlier, it may not be coincidence that WAFC announced it on July 1st i.e. technically the first day after the "old" season had ended. A loophole, perhaps?

It gets relegated, and then it starts the next season in a lower league with a 12 points disadvantage, further punishing it.

Except that it's not a "further punishment".

If you don't get enough points to stay up, the consequence is relegation. That applies to every team, whether financially stable or not.

And if you go into Admin, you get a points deduction. Which is applied whether you are top of the division, mid-table or bottom.

In other words, the two "punishments" may have consequences for each other, but are nonetheless separate.

 

[maddogging]

So the Wigan players must think
We are on 38
Six games left
Only 4 points away from Hull and 5 from Stoke

Both of those teams are dreadful

So we have a great chance to stay up
And start in Championship on nil points

Yes, selfishly I hope the players don’t get paid tomorrow as that will certainly alter their thought process....

 

[jlove]

Yes, selfishly I hope the players don’t get paid tomorrow as that will certainly alter their thought process....

I would expect they were paid on Tuesday, before the administrators got called in.

 

[Stanley]

I get the feeling this all happened quite suddenly and maybe without any warning as the new owners just seem to have bailed out. Not inconceivable that the players have not been paid in full.

EFL getting a lot of stick as expected but to be honest if the new owners presented themselves with evidence of appropriate funds, a workable business plan and a credible track record in business what else could they do but approve them. Nobody could foresee they might jack it all in within a month.

Very hard to call how it will affect Saturday but I am sure TF will keep the players focussed.

 

[Oceanbee]

Hi Ealing Bee,

Thanks for your comments.

The thing I’m confused about is this.
Suppose you are the bottom club right now, and you go into administration, and you stay that way until the end of the season, say with 38 points as your final tally.

Then why aren’t the 12 points deducted then, and you get relegated with 26 points.

Why do you start the next season in the lower division before the 12 points are deducted?

Thanks.

 

[nick logan]

Hi Ealing Bee,

Thanks for your comments.

The thing I’m confused about is this.
Suppose you are the bottom club right now, and you go into administration, and you stay that way until the end of the season, say with 38 points as your final tally.

Then why aren’t the 12 points deducted then, and you get relegated with 26 points.

Why do you start the next season in the lower division before the 12 points are deducted?

Thanks.

Because then there is no punishment

 

[hanworthbee]

They are def going down....good riddance

 

[badgerbee]

But if this situation is the end of the season -

The club is further up the table, goes into administration and at the season end has say 62 points.

12 points are deducted, but this doesn’t put it into the relegation zone. It just ends up further down the league table, but is then starting the new season in the same league on an equal footing with everyone else.

So that seems even less punishment than ending up relegated and starting a new season with 12 points deducted immediately.

Yep.
See Birmingscum City...........

 

[Oceanbee]

Because then there is no punishment

But if this situation is the end of the season -

The club is further up the table, goes into administration and at the season end has say 62 points.

12 points are deducted, but this doesn’t put it into the relegation zone. It just ends up further down the league table, but is then starting the new season in the same league on an equal footing with everyone else.

So that seems even less punishment than ending up relegated and starting a new season with 12 points deducted immediately.

 

[nick logan]

But if this situation is the end of the season -

The club is further up the table, goes into administration and at the season end has say 62 points.

12 points are deducted, but this doesn’t put it into the relegation zone. It just ends up further down the league table, but is then starting the new season in the same league on an equal footing with everyone else.

So that seems even less punishment than ending up relegated and starting a new season with 12 points deducted immediately.

If that happens it will be carried over ?

 

[BlueJayBee]

But if this situation is the end of the season -

The club is further up the table, goes into administration and at the season end has say 62 points.

12 points are deducted, but this doesn’t put it into the relegation zone. It just ends up further down the league table, but is then starting the new season in the same league on an equal footing with everyone else.

So that seems even less punishment than ending up relegated and starting a new season with 12 points deducted immediately.

That's the only scenario where I can see that there wouldn't be any consequences, but what else could be done, in such circumstances?

 

[badgerbee]

If that happens it will be carried over ?

No.
As mentioned above, see what happened to Birmingham last year.
Nine point deduction - went from "not going to qualify for the play-offs" to "didn't get relegated"
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...points-efl-football-league-financial-breaches

 

[Judio1999]

I think it all started with maybe Port Vale

They were 15 points from safety so went into admin
The deduction was meaningless

So EFL changed rules if you went onto admin after a certain date near end of season

 

[kevalutonbee]

I think it all started with maybe Port Vale

They were 15 points from safety so went into admin
The deduction was meaningless

So EFL changed rules if you went onto admin after a certain date near end of season

I thought it was Boston United

 

[A Real Mysteron]

They are def going down....good riddance

I think that will get enough points for -12 not to put them in the bottom 3.

 

[TW3Bee]

Hi Ealing Bee,

Thanks for your comments.

The thing I’m confused about is this.
Suppose you are the bottom club right now, and you go into administration, and you stay that way until the end of the season, say with 38 points as your final tally.

Then why aren’t the 12 points deducted then, and you get relegated with 26 points.

Why do you start the next season in the lower division before the 12 points are deducted?

Thanks.

Because it would encourage clubs that are relegated going into administration.

 

[Dazza]

But if this situation is the end of the season -

The club is further up the table, goes into administration and at the season end has say 62 points.

12 points are deducted, but this doesn’t put it into the relegation zone. It just ends up further down the league table, but is then starting the new season in the same league on an equal footing with everyone else.

So that seems even less punishment than ending up relegated and starting a new season with 12 points deducted immediately.

In a usual season there is a cutoff point (some time in April) where if the club goes into admin after that date it's carried over to the next season in order to avoid the situation you describe.

 

[costabees]

Alan Nixon now reporting that from tomorrow, Wigan players will only get 20% of their normal wages

 

[hatfieldbee]

The Telegraph reporting that the Administrators 'have to find funds' for wages, and also travel costs for this Saturday's match against us. Reading between the lines, that means no travelling the day before, with a hotel stay overnight. Not the ideal preparation for the match!

 

[Holysmit]

The Telegraph reporting that the Administrators 'have to find funds' for wages, and also travel costs for this Saturday's match against us. Reading between the lines, that means no travelling the day before, with a hotel stay overnight. Not the ideal preparation for the match!

Particularly as they will have had all kind of thoughts running through their mind since the announcement.

 

[Vid]

I wonder if the situation in H.K. has something to do with this. The owners International Entertainment Corporation are based there.

 

[TW3Bee]

This is all leading towards a 1-0 win for Wigan.

 

[Ken Richardson]

This is all leading towards a 1-0 win for Wigan.

Bubbish.

 

[liverbee]

We are ruthless. No quarter.

 

[JCMcBee]

....50p says this anxiety ridden thread gets banished to GPG archive vaults if we win Saturday...let's hope so....on both counts.

 

[rdc]

Rumours it's all to do with betting in the Philippines now!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8485007/EFL-chief-Rick-Parry-secretly-filmed-discussing-Wigan-Athletics-stricken-former-owner.html

https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/did-the-doctor-pull-the-plug.106032/