Manchester City Found Guilty Of FFP Breaches

[Hippobee]

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Man C move into the 'acceptance' stage, realising their appeal has no grounds and is full of holes.

 

[Adam]

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Despite the headline it’s old news.

TLDR: These discussions happened before the guilty verdict was announced, Man City still claimed they were innocent and would only pay a fine, Premier League rejected it, settlement negotiations ended.

 

[Sianist]

Yeah, from how I read it, it says that Man.City was considering admitting guilt (or at least accepting guilt), at some point before the verdict, before digging in their heels

 

[JCMcBee]

Yeah, from how I read it, it says that Man.City was considering admitting guilt (or at least accepting guilt), at some point before the verdict, before digging in their heels

.... let's just call it their Richard E Grant moment.

 

[heebeegeebee]

Just seen this so hopefully EPL will dish out something similar.

 

[aawharris]

Chatting to my mate (a City fan - a proper one actually from within 10 miles of Manchester) and we both agreed that there should be transfer window bans and that if nothing is done before January they will likely futureproof themselves by spending 500 million at Christmas on a load of players.

 

[Hippobee]

Chatting to my mate (a City fan - a proper one actually from within 10 miles of Manchester) and we both agreed that there should be transfer window bans and that if nothing is done before January they will likely futureproof themselves by spending 500 million at Christmas on a load of players.

The PL must put the sanction in NOW and the cheats can appeal whatever afterwards. The longer this saga drags on, the more it devalues results in this league. It will turn the season into a farce. Every win they get is totally pointless.

 

[Hullbee]

The PL must put the sanction in NOW and the cheats can appeal whatever afterwards. The longer this saga drags on, the more it devalues results in this league. It will turn the season into a farce. Every win they get is totally pointless.

Agree cut the crap and get it done…

 

[JCMcBee]

The PL must put the sanction in NOW and the cheats can appeal whatever afterwards. The longer this saga drags on, the more it devalues results in this league. It will turn the season into a farce. Every win they get is totally pointless.

...indeed....and as has already been discussed on the thread pertaining to today's game involving MCFC...it maybe indeed the case that the EPL take action before our game against them early December...ie an immediate points deduction...for arguments sake say - 20 points....and that would only be an initial sanction....any expulsion and further sanctions from the EPL would come at the end of the season....and as was alluded to in the other thread....this would have a huge psychological impact on the players of MCFC if they realised they in effect were merely playing their remaining games only to fulfill their obligation to complete fixture list....and thus were not competing in matches with a view to winning the EPL...it will be interesting to see what develops in the next few weeks.....MCFC s match against Liverpool today was the biggest sham of them all....the EPL must take action very soon....for the sake of football the current situation cannot be allowed to continue.

 

[WarrenBee]

January they will likely futureproof themselves by spending 500 million at Christmas on a load of players.

No player worth their salt will touch them with a barge pole.

 

[Edmundo]

Chatting to my mate (a City fan - a proper one actually from within 10 miles of Manchester) and we both agreed that there should be transfer window bans and that if nothing is done before January they will likely futureproof themselves by spending 500 million at Christmas on a load of players.

They’re still subject to spending limits.

 

[South Acton Bee]

They’re still subject to spending limits.

Do you think they are care if there get another points deduction.

 

[Jezybee]

Do you think they are care if there get another points deduction.

The spending limits apply to UEFA European competitions too. So yes, they would care if they lost points / were kicked out of the Champions League.
UEFA somewhat bottled it previously agreeing to only fine Man City. To maintain any credibility, they would need to impose a tougher sanction this time.

 

[LongLostBee]

Chatting to my mate (a City fan - a proper one actually from within 10 miles of Manchester) and we both agreed that there should be transfer window bans and that if nothing is done before January they will likely futureproof themselves by spending 500 million at Christmas on a load of players.

Well I disagree with you both.
Transfer window bans aren’t really punishment.
They should be relegated to non-league or lower.
Sadly it’s much more likely to be effectively no punishment. Even relegation one division is pitiful and fairly meaningless.

 

[aawharris]

Well I disagree with you both.
Transfer window bans aren’t really punishment.
They should be relegated to non-league or lower.
Sadly it’s much more likely to be effectively no punishment. Even relegation one division is pitiful and fairly meaningless.

Transfer bans will work if they also arent allowed to extend players contracts.
Then over the course of 4,5,6 years they will lose all the big stars and will be unable to pay big money to replace them

 

[hanworthbee]

The spending limits apply to UEFA European competitions too. So yes, they would care if they lost points / were kicked out of the Champions League.
UEFA somewhat bottled it previously agreeing to only fine Man City. To maintain any credibility, they would need to impose a tougher sanction this time.

Depending what happens they might not need to worry about the uefa cap any time soon

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Whatever the punishment it needs to be decided pdq. It's making a mockery of the season.

 

[Brentford Bob]

Am I the only one who isn’t really arsed about all of this?

 

[hanworthbee]

Whatever the punishment it needs to be decided pdq. It's making a mockery of the season.

It won't be until the timeline is set out so Jan earliest

 

[Guildford Bee]

Am I the only one who isn’t really arsed about all of this?

I sort of agree. They obviously deserve to have the book thrown at them but it would be a stretch to say what they’ve done has had a direct impact on us. They cheated to break up the existing cartel of United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea, all clubs who I frankly despise.

 

[TorbayBee]

The PL must put the sanction in NOW and the cheats can appeal whatever afterwards. The longer this saga drags on, the more it devalues results in this league. It will turn the season into a farce. Every win they get is totally pointless.

What if their appeal is successful?

 

[LongLostBee]

Transfer bans will work if they also arent allowed to extend players contracts.
Then over the course of 4,5,6 years they will lose all the big stars and will be unable to pay big money to replace them

They'd be diminished but the total ban on incoming transfers would have to be like 5-10 years which also isn't going to happen.
Anything less would be more of an annoyance than adequate punishment and still result in the cheating having been a net gain.
They've got enough players and youth players to survive in the top flight for 4 years even with a total ban on transfers.

 

[Untouchable]

it would be a stretch to say what they’ve done has had a direct impact on us

If they hadn’t financially doped, would we have qualified for European football in 2024/25 or 2025/26?

 

[favershambee]

Unfortunately, after seeing the Liverpool game , most of the abuse is aimed at the players who are simply honouring their contracts albeit at vast sums of money. The owners and board need to face the music ASAP otherwise this could turn into a farce and the players will face even more hostility as the season progresses.

 

[Guildford Bee]

If they hadn’t financially doped, would we have qualified for European football in 2024/25 or 2025/26?

A very slim chance I suppose but probably very unlikely.

 

[Guildford Bee]

They'd be diminished but the total ban on incoming transfers would have to be like 5-10 years which also isn't going to happen.
Anything less would be more of an annoyance than adequate punishment and still result in the cheating having been a net gain.
They've got enough players and youth players to survive in the top flight for 4 years even with a total ban on transfers.

They can’t just be banished to non-league because you’d cause an imbalance that will impact the clubs who play in those divisions.

I think the most sensible playing sanction is five years of points deductions.

Let’s say 60 points for the next two seasons (which would probably see them drop to League One) and then 30, 20 and 10 for the following three seasons.

I’ve not done the maths but you get the idea - it would be enough to keep them out the PL for a number of years, their best players will leave over time etc

 

[LongLostBee]

They can’t just be banished to non-league because you’d cause an imbalance that will impact the clubs who play in those divisions.

I think the most sensible playing sanction is five years of points deductions.

Let’s say 60 points for the next two seasons (which would probably see them drop to League One) and then 30, 20 and 10 for the following three seasons.

I’ve not done the maths but you get the idea - it would be enough to keep them out the PL for a number of years, their best players will leave over time etc

Whatever way you cut it - it's going to affect someone else. Including that way.
Everyone should get suing them into dust

 

[Greybeard]

If the fans really felt outraged they would boycott Citys matches. Not much of a boycott at Anfield yesterday. I certainly won't be watching or attending any.

If the clubs really felt outraged they would refuse to play City even if it meant forfeiting the points.

A lot of this "anger" is performative. The EPL will effectively negotiate a punishment with City which will save face but not really serve justice. For City it will be a significant ",bump in the road" but in a few years time they'll be over it.

 

[stevil]

Unfortunately, after seeing the Liverpool game , most of the abuse is aimed at the players who are simply honouring their contracts albeit at vast sums of money.

Albeit at vast sums of money... and with a club who were patently guilty of cheating even before the verdict was released. Not sure any player who's signed for them recently can justifiably claim ignorance.

Anyway, I kind of agree that the boos failed to have the desired effect. It seemed to galvanise Citeh rather than intimidate them. And the sequence at the end where they booed every player as Citeh played keep ball... that just sounded like a chorus of 'oles'.

 

[hanworthbee]

I sort of agree. They obviously deserve to have the book thrown at them but it would be a stretch to say what they’ve done has had a direct impact on us. They cheated to break up the existing cartel of United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea, all clubs who I frankly despise.

And they are the type club who may pay huge fees for players

 

[Mr Tree]

I think i would...

Deduct them half a season's points (57) for this year and, if they survive, next year too. I just went through the last 5 years, they'd have finished 19th, 19th, 16th, 18th and 17th with such a deduction...

1yr ban on promotion if they drop to the EFL - so they can't bounce straight back up, but the EFL only have one potential year of "farce" (top team isn't top etc) to deal with.

5yr ban on European qualification (might need some thought if the above scenarios effectively exclude them anyway)

 

[GuyBee]

They can’t just be banished to non-league because you’d cause an imbalance that will impact the clubs who play in those divisions.

I think the most sensible playing sanction is five years of points deductions.

Let’s say 60 points for the next two seasons (which would probably see them drop to League One) and then 30, 20 and 10 for the following three seasons.

I’ve not done the maths but you get the idea - it would be enough to keep them out the PL for a number of years, their best players will leave over time etc

Not plausible, the EPL cannot impose points sanctions on the EFL

My preference is

a) Expel them from the PL for 5 years (not going to happen)

b) A rolling 200 point EPL deduction that they have to work their way thru each year they are in the Prem

 

[JCMcBee]

I sort of agree. They obviously deserve to have the book thrown at them but it would be a stretch to say what they’ve done has had a direct impact on us. They cheated to break up the existing cartel of United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea, all clubs who I frankly despise.

....the owners wanted to join that cartel...not break it up.... all of whom now have American owners.... this whole matter has nothing to do with the supporters,the players,and football as a sport....all the above teams owners will systematically destroy football if left unchecked.

 

[birdy67]

Was yesterday's result a good one for us? Assuming City are going to lose those points at some stage anyway was it better that they beat Liverpool than the other way around. Liverpool would have gone above us with a win so I guess that was the best result we could hope for right now? Unless all those City points are removed by the Premier League. Another example of why they should sort this mess out asap.

 

[Untouchable]

If the fans really felt outraged they would boycott Citys matches. Not much of a boycott at Anfield yesterday. I certainly won't be watching or attending any.

If the clubs really felt outraged they would refuse to play City even if it meant forfeiting the points.

A lot of this "anger" is performative. The EPL will effectively negotiate a punishment with City which will save face but not really serve justice. For City it will be a significant ",bump in the road" but in a few years time they'll be over it.

Which fans should boycott? I wouldn’t expect old school hardcore Man City fans to boycott. Why should they lose out because their owners are cheats? Nor would I expect fans of other clubs to boycott either. Why would I want to miss a Bees match because Man City cheated before we were in the PL.

Clubs aren’t boycotting matches. There’s too much on it. It isn’t just about the points. There’s the TV contracts, the players match and bonus fees, the fans.

 

[Travel Tavern Bee]

Just think they will get off with something not that drastic , More brown envelopes than Ryman’s .

This will be decided by beings way above the footballing authorities according to conspiracy theorists……

 

[Untouchable]

1yr ban on promotion if they drop to the EFL - so they can't bounce straight back up, but the EFL only have one potential year of "farce" (top team isn't top etc) to deal with.

5yr ban on European qualification (might need some thought if the above scenarios effectively exclude them anyway)

I’m not sure either of these are possible.

The former would require any punishment to be implemented by the EFL which the rules do not allow for.

The latter requires either changes to the PL European qualification rules or UEFA cooperation. UEFA cooperation is only likely if they open further proceedings once the domestic case is finished and god knows how long that would take to conclude.

 

[WarrenBee]

As I've said before, this is going to run and run.

 

[hanworthbee]

If the fans really felt outraged they would boycott Citys matches. Not much of a boycott at Anfield yesterday. I certainly won't be watching or attending any.

If the clubs really felt outraged they would refuse to play City even if it meant forfeiting the points.

A lot of this "anger" is performative. The EPL will effectively negotiate a punishment with City which will save face but not really serve justice. For City it will be a significant ",bump in the road" but in a few years time they'll be over it.

Are people that out raged? Doesn't really bother me that much man city are in their own league with in our league

 

[JCMcBee]

The Man C supporters know what their teams owners have been up to...of course some of them will still be in denial... but they know... maybe some of them will feel hard done by should the EPL banish their club....not without some justification....some might say... as lots of other clubs.... some who haven't been exposed yet perhaps....are 'at it'....but it still all boils down to being 'caught'....and MCFCs owners have been...silly them.

 

[Mr Tree]

I’m not sure either of these are possible.

The former would require any punishment to be implemented by the EFL which the rules do not allow for.

The latter requires either changes to the PL European qualification rules or UEFA cooperation. UEFA cooperation is only likely if they open further proceedings once the domestic case is finished and god knows how long that would take to conclude.

European bans have happened before, so presumably it's doable. And the other would require a deal with the EFL, but i think it's workable

 

[aawharris]

They can’t just be banished to non-league because you’d cause an imbalance that will impact the clubs who play in those divisions.

I think the most sensible playing sanction is five years of points deductions.

Let’s say 60 points for the next two seasons (which would probably see them drop to League One) and then 30, 20 and 10 for the following three seasons.

I’ve not done the maths but you get the idea - it would be enough to keep them out the PL for a number of years, their best players will leave over time etc

I Dont think they can enforce a points deduction in the football league, so best case would be a yoyo, where they get a 60 point deuction this year, relegated, then get promoted next year and another 60 point deuction, relegation and so on for a few years

 

[Untouchable]

European bans have happened before, so presumably it's doable. And the other would require a deal with the EFL, but i think it's workable

Hopefully. An ideal scenario is the severest punishment possible that can hold up at appeal and would not result in the club folding.

 

[TorbayBee]

I understand people can feel annoyed that City got greater funds than other clubs and cheated the system.
Personally I do not get the screaming demands for punishments that basically destroy the club within the UK game. The fans did nothing wrong, they are the one permanent fixture in the sorry mess. Who will be served if City are banished to the National League with transfer embargoes banning their return? All it will do is strengthen resolve of other EPL clubs to get rid of spending controls.
I think the situation could result in the creation of a Super League. City's owners are fabulously wealthy , they do not believe they have done anything wrong, will they just shrug and accept the National League or walk away?
My speculation is no chance. Etihad will sue the EPL, the owners will move to join with Real Madrid , Barcelona , PSG etc to create a league they will own. This will suck in the worldwide TV money. At the same time UEFA will look to retaliate by banning players from playing International football but Infantoni will not lose the chance to follow the money and UEFA will say the players can play International football.
All in all if you think its all disrupted now I think we have seen nothing yet.
My view is ban the owners, fine them heavily and punish City through 3 years of 30/40 points deduction every season with no prize money. That way the perpertrators get punished and the club is marooned in EPL mid table thus missing out on European money. Should the club go down the punishment is suspended until they return to the EPL.
That way the guilty are punished without huge disruption to the overall league structure.

 

[WarrenBee]

Be careful what you wish for.
As this shows in epic proportions, that when mega rich owners ride into town throwing ££££££ around like confetti. It will at some point end in tears, as has happened time and time again.

 

[JCMcBee]

I understand people can feel annoyed that City got greater funds than other clubs and cheated the system.
Personally I do not get the screaming demands for punishments that basically destroy the club within the UK game. The fans did nothing wrong, they are the one permanent fixture in the sorry mess. Who will be served if City are banished to the National League with transfer embargoes banning their return? All it will do is strengthen resolve of other EPL clubs to get rid of spending controls.
I think the situation could result in the creation of a Super League. City's owners are fabulously wealthy , they do not believe they have done anything wrong, will they just shrug and accept the National League or walk away?
My speculation is no chance. Etihad will sue the EPL, the owners will move to join with Real Madrid , Barcelona , PSG etc to create a league they will own. This will suck in the worldwide TV money. At the same time UEFA will look to retaliate by banning players from playing International football but Infantoni will not lose the chance to follow the money and UEFA will say the players can play International football.
All in all if you think its all disrupted now I think we have seen nothing yet.
My view is ban the owners, fine them heavily and punish City through 3 years of 30/40 points deduction every season with no prize money. That way the perpertrators get punished and the club is marooned in EPL mid table thus missing out on European money. Should the club go down the punishment is suspended until they return to the EPL.
That way the guilty are punished without huge disruption to the overall league structure.

.....I don't think the owners will get banned... not going to happen...for reasons that have nothing to do with football per se.... but the points deduction system you suggest might be the way forward for the EPL...and for MCFC and its supporters....they take the hit
... but it must come into effect this season... and soon....for the good of the sport.

 

[hanworthbee]

I understand people can feel annoyed that City got greater funds than other clubs and cheated the system.
Personally I do not get the screaming demands for punishments that basically destroy the club within the UK game. The fans did nothing wrong, they are the one permanent fixture in the sorry mess. Who will be served if City are banished to the National League with transfer embargoes banning their return? All it will do is strengthen resolve of other EPL clubs to get rid of spending controls.
I think the situation could result in the creation of a Super League. City's owners are fabulously wealthy , they do not believe they have done anything wrong, will they just shrug and accept the National League or walk away?
My speculation is no chance. Etihad will sue the EPL, the owners will move to join with Real Madrid , Barcelona , PSG etc to create a league they will own. This will suck in the worldwide TV money. At the same time UEFA will look to retaliate by banning players from playing International football but Infantoni will not lose the chance to follow the money and UEFA will say the players can play International football.
All in all if you think its all disrupted now I think we have seen nothing yet.
My view is ban the owners, fine them heavily and punish City through 3 years of 30/40 points deduction every season with no prize money. That way the perpertrators get punished and the club is marooned in EPL mid table thus missing out on European money. Should the club go down the punishment is suspended until they return to the EPL.
That way the guilty are punished without huge disruption to the overall league structure.

We've already been down the super league road and it's not happening

 

[TorbayBee]

We've already been down the super league road and it's not happening

I think things may change of extreme things happen. We know there are owners across Europe who would love it. So many US owners would welcome the creation of an NFL type closed shop. If you ban/destroy a team the owners will not their investment die , they will take it elsewhere.

 

[JCMcBee]

I think things may change of extreme things happen. We know there are owners across Europe who would love it. So many US owners would welcome the creation of an NFL type closed shop. If you ban/destroy a team the owners will not their investment die , they will take it elsewhere.

....yep.... although I'm led to believe there is something in place under EPL rules that prevents investors from outside the UK forming a monopoly...ie US based companies...in the EPL... (maybe someone could enlighten me)....although I'm not sure this couldn't be circumnavigated....watch out messrs Benham and Bloom

 

[Greybeard]

Which fans should boycott? I wouldn’t expect old school hardcore Man City fans to boycott. Why should they lose out because their owners are cheats? Nor would I expect fans of other clubs to boycott either. Why would I want to miss a Bees match because Man City cheated before we were in the PL.

Clubs aren’t boycotting matches. There’s too much on it. It isn’t just about the points. There’s the TV contracts, the players match and bonus fees, the fans.

You're right in that it won't happen. But I can only speak for myself - I simply haven't got the stomach to watch them or go to their matches. I feel queasy even thinking about it. If I were a City supporter id tear up my season ticket because I wouldn't be able to stand the shame of going and I wouldn't feel able to support a club I knew had systematically cheated for a decade.

Screw the consequences. Sometimes in life you just follow your principles and do what you believe is right. And frankly if everyone did as I suggest it would all be over very quickly.