Keith Andrews (Head Coach) (18 Viewers)

[Mr Tree]

You may not like reading it, but it is all true, and is getting serious. It should be discussed!

This is the Keith Andrews thread - your opinion (not "all true" fyi) on referees can be discussed elsewhere. Thanks

 

[JCMcBee]

I hope KA picks the most attacking team he can today...and the players chosen do what he asks of them.... for me that's all we can ask of either...
play up Brentford....as someone once said.

 

[Andrelux]

Why are we a position to expect more?

I don't expect anything one way or the other, and by the way I'm not the one crowing about being in a European place barely 20% of the way through the season

 

[stomalomalus]

“And because we’re not good enough…”

Take a long hard look at yourself, we are the 4th highest scorers in what is an extremely competitive league … in the real world, what do you want, what do you expect???

Not good enough at passing through the press. Specifically. And we’re not great at it, but not many are. But if we want to play this way, we need to get better at it, as teams are just going to press us like hull, Sunderland, and Leeds second half.

I think we’re bloody brilliant all in… but we’re allowed to say where we don’t think we’re good, not just where we’re good.

And as this is a KA problem, this is exactly where it belongs. I have faith he’s going to get it right. But as of yet, we’re not there.

 

[The Pipe]

Reading some of the comments on this thread and previous manager threads I struggle to see why we can’t play scintillating football at all times and beat most of the opposition comprehensively as managing a group of footballers and working out tactics has got to be the simplest job in the world !!!!

 

[Beecareful]

* Champions League places when you remove Man City.

Man City won't be decided for years. So many appeals and hoops yet.

 

[Jim Rourke]

Interesting debate where I see both sides.

I believe over an extensive number of games (28?) we are averaging just over a point a game?

I suspect the ‘down feeling’ has been amplified by the ‘Champagne Football’ we were treated to at the start of the season (where we were scarily good and very pleasant on the eye) that has fallen away in recent weeks.

The biggest positive for sure we sit sixth in the league.

 

[stomalomalus]

Reading some of the comments on this thread and previous manager threads I struggle to see why we can’t play scintillating football at all times and beat most of the opposition comprehensively as managing a group of footballers and working out tactics has got to be the simplest job in the world !!!!

I reckon I could do a decent job as an analyst or tactician. But to put it all together like KA, or like TF did… nah man, these guys are insanely good at what they do.

 

[pompeybee]

You may not like reading it, but it is all true, and is getting serious. It should be discussed!

Ok, but the post I replied to had nothing to do with our manager, who is the subject of this thread.

 

[TadB]

Ok, but the post I replied to had nothing to do with our manager, who is the subject of this thread.

Yes, I have already had my bolo king!

 

[upnorthbee]

He changed the game today, completely earned his money. I honestly didn't know what the answer was when we were 1-0 up in the 2nd half.... it felt like we were inevitably going to concede but he made the changes and we go 2 up.

He 100% knows we need to be better to hold a position like 6th in the league but we will be. Brighton will be a huge test for him.

 

[stomalomalus]

Was listening to the Athletic podcast on Arsenal Liverpool just now, and around the 12 minute mark, they're talking about Arsenal's build up change between Brighton and Bayern. How Raya played a lot more long balls.

So I looked up stats. Against Hull, Kelleher played 43.3% of passes long. Against Forest, it was 52.8%.

It felt like there was a decision to buildup long, and it seems like we did play more long passes. Just an observation.

 

[Gee Bee]

Was listening to the Athletic podcast on Arsenal Liverpool just now, and around the 12 minute mark, they're talking about Arsenal's build up change between Brighton and Bayern. How Raya played a lot more long balls.

So I looked up stats. Against Hull, Kelleher played 43.3% of passes long. Against Forest, it was 52.8%.

It felt like there was a decision to buildup long, and it seems like we did play more long passes. Just an observation.

You have to take in the different conditions in terms of weather. But I’d add in most part yesterday the balls aimed for Thiago were won by Forest. However winning that 2nd ball is key and Samgare Janelt and Jensen were very good at it.

 

[lanzabee]

Was listening to the Athletic podcast on Arsenal Liverpool just now, and around the 12 minute mark, they're talking about Arsenal's build up change between Brighton and Bayern. How Raya played a lot more long balls.

So I looked up stats. Against Hull, Kelleher played 43.3% of passes long. Against Forest, it was 52.8%.

It felt like there was a decision to buildup long, and it seems like we did play more long passes. Just an observation.

Possibly just learning from the Hull f*** up...easier to go over the press than through it

 

[stomalomalus]

You have to take in the different conditions in terms of weather. But I’d add in most part yesterday the balls aimed for Thiago were won by Forest. However winning that 2nd ball is key and Samgare Janelt and Jensen were very good at it.

It worked. And, yes, it's not always about winning the initial ball, and not even about the second ball...but what happens next. We got the ball into the right areas and showed confidence in our defenders to be able to win the ball back quickly if Forest won the third ball.

 

[stomalomalus]

Possibly just learning from the Hull f*** up...easier to go over the press than through it

That's it, though. KA and the team looked at it, they looked at their options, and they arrived at a solution that worked. That's great work, and shows how important a coaching team can be. Look at Moan U in comparison, who can't seem to fix their problems, or even try to fix them.

 

[ruislip bee]

Ok, but the post I replied to had nothing to do with our manager, who is the subject of this thread.

We don't have a manager. Just saying.

 

[jlove]

That's it, though. KA and the team looked at it, they looked at their options, and they arrived at a solution that worked. That's great work, and shows how important a coaching team can be. Look at Moan U in comparison, who can't seem to fix their problems, or even try to fix them.

Exactly! We thought it clear that there was a specific and phased game-plan.

The way we set up, with two deep lines of 'defence', plus Schade and Ouattara holding the width, meant that Thiago was up alone, which seemed concerning. But, for all the "shots" the florists had, most were wild slashes from distance. We seemed to risk the gamble and took some opportunities to ping balls out wide behind their defence who were lured forward. Both our goals came from this tactic – essentially quickly getting the ball into the wide space that wing-backs leave and behind the centre backs, so they're often facing their own goal trying to defend. Our guess this was Damien Duff's input to Keith's plan.

I'm sure we won't see the same on Sunday, Brighton will need a very different plan, so it will be interesting to find out on the day.

 

[Argus]

Incredibly satisfying to grind out a win despite low xG numbers and no real superstar-hero performance from anyone, which is what so often seems to happen against us.

But in terms of the tactical setup so far: One thing I'm confused about is why we seem to lob so many balls over the top towards Igor. That was also the main tactic I'd put in the "not working" box from the end of last season, and it also saw his goalscoring slow down like we've seen this season. Thankfully he's now scored 2 in 2, so clearly the big beast can do it regardless, but he's much better with the ball at his feet and when opposing CBs don't get the chance to bully him in the aerial duels. They get away with it because he doesn't go down and whine (shouldn't be like that, but unfortunately it is, and we have to live in that reality), and like I said, he's not superb in the air despite his big frame. It reads like desperation at times, even when that's not needed. I still believe Damsgaard to be sort of a missing link in our current tactics, but throwing him straight into it clearly hasn't worked. He plays like Iniesta for Denmark, then comes back and looks lost before dropping out of the starting XI once again. Hasn't been great off the bench either. This was our POTS before Andrews came in, and it just doesn't seem to have clicked yet. I think it's worth it trying to tweak things to make him a more important piece of the puzzle. We're doing well, but we have a lot more potential with this group imo

 

[pompeybee]

We don't have a manager. Just saying.

Sorry. It's my age. They're all still managers to me.

 

[readingbee]

Incredibly satisfying to grind out a win despite low xG numbers and no real superstar-hero performance from anyone, which is what so often seems to happen against us.

But in terms of the tactical setup so far: One thing I'm confused about is why we seem to lob so many balls over the top towards Igor. That was also the main tactic I'd put in the "not working" box from the end of last season, and it also saw his goalscoring slow down like we've seen this season. Thankfully he's now scored 2 in 2, so clearly the big beast can do it regardless, but he's much better with the ball at his feet and when opposing CBs don't get the chance to bully him in the aerial duels. They get away with it because he doesn't go down and whine (shouldn't be like that, but unfortunately it is, and we have to live in that reality), and like I said, he's not superb in the air despite his big frame. It reads like desperation at times, even when that's not needed. I still believe Damsgaard to be sort of a missing link in our current tactics, but throwing him straight into it clearly hasn't worked. He plays like Iniesta for Denmark, then comes back and looks lost before dropping out of the starting XI once again. Hasn't been great off the bench either. This was our POTS before Andrews came in, and it just doesn't seem to have clicked yet. I think it's worth it trying to tweak things to make him a more important piece of the puzzle. We're doing well, but we have a lot more potential with this group imo

Good post. Your observation of Thiago is spot on. I may have missed one but I never saw him win a header passed to him in the air yesterday, or for some time home or away. As you say he just doesn’t seem to jump high enough. Playing with his back to the goal just doesn’t seem to suit his style.

 

[IslandBee]

Incredibly satisfying to grind out a win despite low xG numbers and no real superstar-hero performance from anyone, which is what so often seems to happen against us.

But in terms of the tactical setup so far: One thing I'm confused about is why we seem to lob so many balls over the top towards Igor. That was also the main tactic I'd put in the "not working" box from the end of last season, and it also saw his goalscoring slow down like we've seen this season. Thankfully he's now scored 2 in 2, so clearly the big beast can do it regardless, but he's much better with the ball at his feet and when opposing CBs don't get the chance to bully him in the aerial duels. They get away with it because he doesn't go down and whine (shouldn't be like that, but unfortunately it is, and we have to live in that reality), and like I said, he's not superb in the air despite his big frame. It reads like desperation at times, even when that's not needed. I still believe Damsgaard to be sort of a missing link in our current tactics, but throwing him straight into it clearly hasn't worked. He plays like Iniesta for Denmark, then comes back and looks lost before dropping out of the starting XI once again. Hasn't been great off the bench either. This was our POTS before Andrews came in, and it just doesn't seem to have clicked yet. I think it's worth it trying to tweak things to make him a more important piece of the puzzle. We're doing well, but we have a lot more potential with this group imo

I could not agree more but I have now come reluctantly to the conclusion that the game KA wants to play simply does not set us up to take advantage of MD's fantastic skill set.

Our main attacking threat is via transitions, gaining possession when the opposition is at its most vulnerable, and taking maximum advantage by attacking rapidly and with pace, particularly down the flanks

In possession we often look one dimensional, reliant on a few well-drilled strategies, such as KLP's long ball over the top of their right back for Schade, or as you say long balls up to Thiago. We very rarely play the ball forward through the lines in a way that would get the best out of MD.

These tactics has worked well for KA for the most part and occasionally we have looked like we might be adding a little more composure to our game when in possession. Perhaps this is still the plan and might develop throughout the season.

However, I have to say it is not a game plan I particularly enjoy watching and I don't think it is one that really moves us forward, which given the squad we now have should really be the aim.

 

[gj]

Got his tactics so wrong today and when he says post match we have to learn i think he should look at himself first he has credit in the bank but is using it up fast

 

[Jezybee]

Got his tactics so wrong today and when he says post match we have to learn i think he should look at himself first he has credit in the bank but is using it up fast

We’re 8th

 

[Jago16]

Got his tactics so wrong today and when he says post match we have to learn i think he should look at himself first he has credit in the bank but is using it up fast

Also felt they were wrong against Hull to be honest. Think we are trying to be a bit clever away from home. Quite open and chasing shadows against both hull and Brighton. Need to recapture what got us wins at Everton, Villa and Newcastle all in about a month last year

 

[JCMcBee]

...KA doesn't have the players that FH has at his disposal...BaHA are a good team.... I'm fairly certain KA recognises both.... regardless of what happened today....we were put in our place....today's result had nothing to do with KA....and everything to do with BaHA.... sometimes you have to accept there is something that's bigger than you.

 

[Raybees]

What i just cant understand is Andrews saying last week was our best performance of the season to then change the team and goes 5 at the back and to do that has Hickey as one of CB was imo odd to say the least. Set the wrong tone from the start and left us too light in midfield the rest is history!

 

[Cham]

Poor team selection today. Sadly, individual errors from players let us all down

 

[BURFORD BEE]

...KA doesn't have the players that FH has at his disposal...BaHA are a good team.... I'm fairly certain KA recognises both.... regardless of what happened today....we were put in our place....today's result had nothing to do with KA....and everything to do with BaHA.... sometimes you have to accept there is something that's bigger than you.

Yes in this case an extra man!

 

[JCMcBee]

Yes in this case an extra man!

...we wouldn't have beat them with 12 men mate....they are a very talented football team... regardless of red cards... penalty...they are simply a better team..... sometimes you have to accept that.... tough as it is.

 

[readingbee]

...we wouldn't have beat them with 12 men mate....they are a very talented football team... regardless of red cards... penalty...they are simply a better team..... sometimes you have to accept that.... tough as it is.

Spot on. 3 years ahead of us which was pretty obvious. We will get there I’m sure of that.

 

[finsbury_bee]

What i just cant understand is Andrews saying last week was our best performance of the season

You could have just finished there...

 

[JCMcBee]

Spot on. 3 years ahead of us which was pretty obvious. We will get there I’m sure of that.

.... perhaps.... but I guess the question is... with regards to this thread....would FH get more out our team than KA does.... imo I'm not sure he would.

 

[Hippobee]

Poor team selection today. Sadly, individual errors from players let us all down

On your first sentence, I'm not sure it was.

I said before K.O, I could see what he was trying to do. It was a containment and physicality exercise to make us hard to beat. Admittedly, I had thought Hickey would be containing in midfield.

It was not creative in the slightest, but if we had tried to be, I think the result would have been worse. We can't out-football what is probably the best footballing side in the PL.

What did for us was our own lack of discipline and the fact that they were much better than us. So good in the press that we just couldn't play.

 

[readingbee]

.... perhaps.... but I guess the question is... with regards to this thread....would FH get more out our team than KA does.... imo I'm not sure he would.

I was looking at it from the quality of players on the pitch. Ours will hopefully get better as time goes by.

 

[North Northants Bee]

You could have just finished there...

Totally agree, I must have been at a different game last week.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

5 at the back has never gone well under KA from memory.
It was, in my opinion a bad decision.

 

[JCMcBee]

I was looking at it from the quality of players on the pitch. Ours will hopefully get better as time goes by.

..so was I....KA only has the hand he was dealt...imo FH currently has the better hand.... maybe even MB recognises that....we can't always bluff.

 

[Gee Bee]

What i just cant understand is Andrews saying last week was our best performance of the season to then change the team and goes 5 at the back and to do that has Hickey as one of CB was imo odd to say the least. Set the wrong tone from the start and left us too light in midfield the rest is history!

We were 5 at back out of possession with KLP needing to do two roles very distant from each other. I’m assuming Jensen had a knock and Damsgaard still carrying one too. Even so YY could have come on to the 3 and Janelt drop back to a 5 out of possession if that’s your game plan. Trying to be too clever imho.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Brighton are very good. But before the red card we were miles off it.

Someone said it in the match thread.................................I think KA style of play has regressed slightly.

Yes we are 8th in the league, but its not a pretty watch atm.

We have the best squad we've ever had, they just arent clicking that well atm.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

We were 5 at back out of possession with KLP needing to do two roles very distant from each other. I’m assuming Jensen had a knock and Damsgaard still carrying one too. Even so YY could have come on to the 3 and Janelt drop back to a 5 out of possession if that’s your game plan. Trying to be too clever imho.

YY not starting was probably the biggest surprise for me. His mobility seemed essential.

 

[stevil]

YY not starting was probably the biggest surprise for me. His mobility seemed essential.

Made a big difference when he came on. Sangare had a difficult game.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

...we wouldn't have beat them with 12 men mate....they are a very talented football team... regardless of red cards... penalty...they are simply a better team..... sometimes you have to accept that.... tough as it is.

I grant you that they are a better team but so are Chelsea. Come to that Liverpool who we would have probably beaten with 11 men. You can compete against better teams and win but you have sod all chance with 10 men for most of the game and just for after a concede a penalty.

 

[JCMcBee]

I grant you that they are a better team but so are Chelsea. Come to that Liverpool who we would have probably beaten with 11 men. You can compete against better teams and win but you have sod all chance with 10 men for most of the game and just for after a concede a penalty.

...we played Chelsea at the right time... similar to Spurs... absolutely fine in my book....points make prizes after all....but we were put in our place by BaHA today....we simply were.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I seem to recall Thomas had a spell where he was over thinking games and playing some unusual tactics that very often didn't work. I think he finally got back to trusting the players and making the opposition think about our strengths.

KA knows he's got good players and plenty of options from the bench so I'd prefer he concentrate on how we can hurt other teams rather than worry about what the opposition can do to us. It's a tough league though, we won't always get it right and this was an exceptionally tough game made harder by actions on the pitch.

 

[BFC1997]

I seem to recall Thomas had a spell where he was over thinking games and playing some unusual tactics that very often didn't work. I think he finally got back to trusting the players and making the opposition think about our strengths.

KA knows he's got good players and plenty of options from the bench so I'd prefer he concentrate on how we can hurt other teams rather than worry about what the opposition can do to us. It's a tough league though, we won't always get it right and this was an exceptionally tough game made harder by actions on the pitch.

Today felt a little like finding a system to fit the eleven players that deserved to play. They’re all good enough for the roles they were deployed in. A weaker opponent and/or a bit more luck today and we are probably hailing it as tactical genius.

The obvious omission was Yarmo but he’s played himself back into the lineup with that second half.

 

[Twickenhamben]

I seem to recall Thomas had a spell where he was over thinking games and playing some unusual tactics that very often didn't work. I think he finally got back to trusting the players and making the opposition think about our strengths.

KA knows he's got good players and plenty of options from the bench so I'd prefer he concentrate on how we can hurt other teams rather than worry about what the opposition can do to us. It's a tough league though, we won't always get it right and this was an exceptionally tough game made harder by actions on the pitch.

agree with this. It felt like at the start of the season KA was playing with the handbrake off….. spoke about being brave and confident. It almost feels like, since he was winning lots of plaudits for the start we had, he’s over thinking it and trying to neutralise the opposition rather than playing our own game and giving the opposition something to think about.

Just seemed strange that we seemed to overload our left hand side (Hickey, KLP tucking in from midfield and Schade) which basically let us overrun in the centre of the park. Meanwhile we had Jensen, YY and MD on the bench…..

 

[jlove]

We’re 8th

That doesn't prevent Keith from selecting the tactics that didn't work or selecting the players who didn't perform.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

We need a settled starting 11.

Keeps chopping and changing it.

Red cards arent helping that.

 

[Jezybee]

That doesn't prevent Keith from selecting the tactics that didn't work or selecting the players who didn't perform.

True, suspect no one will be more disappointed than Andrews. It was the comment regarding credit in the bank and that he’s using it up, I was replying too.

It’s not like we’re rooted to the bottom of the table, without a win in 15 games, that means he’s still in position based on past accomplishments. I doubt the key decision makers in the Club are too concerned with history. As the mantra goes “Past performance is not indicative of future results”