marvelous007
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
If Schade is injured, suspended or sold (in Jan) then this may happen with KLP behind him or overlapping.
El Hadji Malick Diouf
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
I like defenders who can defend. That's why I've always loved Rico. Best one on one defender we've had in decades. Before anyone reminds me, yes, I know his injury record. But I've seen enough of Diouf to say, whatever his merits going forward, he will never be half the defender Rico has been.
El Hadji Malick Diouf
Is 'enough' his several minutes with us or you have followed his career in detail over a few years like our recruiting team might have done ?
hanworthbee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
He's nearly 22 and if he doesn't have that defensive nous he never will imo. You either have it or you don't
Gazza Bee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Yes because no player has ever improved after joining us
Maybe just maybe writing a player off after 2 starts for us is a tad dramatic - not directing at you in particular but there have been some seriously melodramatic posts after 1 bad performance as usual.marvelous007
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
I would say that Schade is also a better player now than when he joined us.Yes because no player has ever improved after joining us
BURFORD BEE
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jlove
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
not sure , he was ok i thought , did'nt get worse from where he was in his career when we signed him despite his age , yes he came back from injury late in season so was not as impactful as he was early on......done ok at Chelsea also.......
aawharris
Doesn't do well with idiots.
El Hadji Malick Diouf
I think the fact that there were a lot of worries about him at West Ham only looks worse as he does it for us.Yes because no player has ever improved after joining us
Im hoping he improves defensively, but unforunately dont see him as a LB - if he plays on the left of a 4 in midfield or even a 3 upfront i would have no worries, but he is - currently - our 4th best overall LB and playing him there now will cause issues imo
El Hadji Malick Diouf
Some people have short memories on the chances we take with defenders, partly because of how quick SvdB, Kayode and now Schuster have come into the first team and not looked out of place.
We signed Collins for a fair wedge a few years back, with Wolves fans saying he was a defensive liability. He was quite poor for most of his first season, particularly in the games against Wolves... But the club were patient with him and he came good, I'm sure he'll admit in part due to the coaching he's received.
Diouf looks totally raw as a defender, which I appreciate is a concern given his price tag... But those panicked headers to nobody he does that lead to the first goal last night (and he did a few of them away at Villa too) are coachable. I do back the coaches to make him as reliable a wing back as KLP, then you're looking at his attacking positives that will reap rewards soon enough.
We signed Collins for a fair wedge a few years back, with Wolves fans saying he was a defensive liability. He was quite poor for most of his first season, particularly in the games against Wolves... But the club were patient with him and he came good, I'm sure he'll admit in part due to the coaching he's received.
Diouf looks totally raw as a defender, which I appreciate is a concern given his price tag... But those panicked headers to nobody he does that lead to the first goal last night (and he did a few of them away at Villa too) are coachable. I do back the coaches to make him as reliable a wing back as KLP, then you're looking at his attacking positives that will reap rewards soon enough.
PGH_Bee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
I think those in power have a good understanding of what he is... He's got an incredible amount of talent and is a defensive liability. I think it's easier to teach someone to defend than it is to teach talent. Price tag for what he is, sure, it's high. But he's 21, I'll have some patience.
maddogging
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mhead bee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
I do apologise, admin error. You and I were responding to the same post and I responded to you by accident. That insult was meant for someone else.
Sorry fella.
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
I’d ignore big comedy Dave. He once said we deserved to be relegated from the PL. Another one who only ever pops up to be miserable.
BAGSHOTBEE
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BAGSHOTBEE
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
any games he starts now he'll be targeted by offense as a weak link
Jay Bee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
There's a few issues here
1. He didn't play very well, he made some mistakes, and Sunderland exploited our weakness on that side in attacking on the right to create those goals. Not a good night.
2. £40m is a lot for Brentford to spend on a player
3..... especially on a left back and especially a work in progress
#2 and #3 are nothing to do with the player, that is a decision by the recruitment team. I promise I'm Mr Positive and I was surprised how much we were willing to spend to get this guy with apparently no urgent need for new full back. But that was probably part of the plan - he's got time to improve, he doesn't have to play 15 games straight for us as he would have a few seasons ago. It's still a lot of money and time will tell whether it was a good buy but the recruitment team have more than earned the right for their decisions to be judged over a couple of seasons not on a handful of games. I'm not buying the discourse of "West Ham have had our pants down, this guy will never be any good".
Good attacking full backs are sought by the top teams in the PL and Europe - more so than say a Rico Henry type - and the aim will be to eventually make him attractive to one of them. But it'll take time.
1. He didn't play very well, he made some mistakes, and Sunderland exploited our weakness on that side in attacking on the right to create those goals. Not a good night.
2. £40m is a lot for Brentford to spend on a player
3..... especially on a left back and especially a work in progress
#2 and #3 are nothing to do with the player, that is a decision by the recruitment team. I promise I'm Mr Positive and I was surprised how much we were willing to spend to get this guy with apparently no urgent need for new full back. But that was probably part of the plan - he's got time to improve, he doesn't have to play 15 games straight for us as he would have a few seasons ago. It's still a lot of money and time will tell whether it was a good buy but the recruitment team have more than earned the right for their decisions to be judged over a couple of seasons not on a handful of games. I'm not buying the discourse of "West Ham have had our pants down, this guy will never be any good".
Good attacking full backs are sought by the top teams in the PL and Europe - more so than say a Rico Henry type - and the aim will be to eventually make him attractive to one of them. But it'll take time.
El Hadji Malick Diouf
I asked Phil about this at the time. His answer was that we didn't need a LB right immediately. KLP was doing a good job. Rico was back fit (as he was then), as was Hickey, and that Jayden just needs to keep developing.
So he was very much brought in to develop and improve his play and increase his value.
We need to start accepting, like the club seem to have done, that the talent pool is much smaller at this level and therefore prices are expensive. The top clubs in this league wouldn't even think about spending £40m on a 21 year old with so much headroom. Neither would they be getting flak from their fans for spending that amount of money(!)
Reading back Phil's comments he's "one for the future" and the match vs Sunderland perhaps showed that.
Last edited:
Mr Tree
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Do we? Can't we just support a young player without jumping on him immediately?
Jay Bee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Thanks for the extra info.
Top clubs, judging by their fans online, might be disappointed with a signing if they didn't need to spend that sort of money....
Even in our case I think some fans thought Jaidon Anthony wasn't an exciting signing and must be a cover player because he was "only £17m" and "only from Burnley". If we'd spent £40m on a forward and £17m on a defender I think some would feel more comfortable with that.
BURFORD BEE
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VitaminBee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
This was the biggest reason for us conceding the second goal IMO. Diouf tried to tackle Talbi and the ball unluckily bounced through him. He couldn't have risked going in harder because they were in our box. The far bigger issue was that when the ball was originally played over the top to Talbi, Collins was way out of position, up inbetween Janelt and Sangare rather than in the defensive line, and Diouf was left completely exposed. It was Collins' man that was free in the box for the cut back and Collins' man that scored the goal.
There's obviously no defending (no pun intended) Diouf gifting them the ball for the first goal, but I have to admit that, upon watching it back, I found it a bit bewildering that he of all people was the only player left back (no pun intended) for our corner that Sunderland then countered from. As I said, it doesn't absolve Diouf of any of the blame, but it does feel like something that was entirely avoidable and something that I hope Keith will learn from going forwards.
BeeSinceBirth
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Terrible mistake for the first, and not great for the second, but maybe I'm a glass half full guy.
He was getting in decent crosses, beating his man, and offering left width in a different way to other options.
And let's not forget he didn't have Schade protecting him, and was playing alongside a clearly rusty Collins.
Let's give him time, I still think he will become a hell of a player.
Have we forgotten Collins first season?
He was getting in decent crosses, beating his man, and offering left width in a different way to other options.
And let's not forget he didn't have Schade protecting him, and was playing alongside a clearly rusty Collins.
Let's give him time, I still think he will become a hell of a player.
Have we forgotten Collins first season?
El Hadji Malick Diouf
I'll take glass half full everyday of the week rather than the pit of despair and negativity some seem to inhabit.
We played unfamiliar tactics and a defence and keeper that had almost no experience playing together.Kayode and Schuster have had a bit of time on the pitch together and we were more solid on that side.
Usually both our full backs have defensive support from our wide forwards.It was an experiment that didn't pay off and it's annoying but the sky hasn't fallen in and for some to have already written him off is laughable.
nick logan
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Gah , you told the geniuses that got us from league 2 to top 6 in prem ?
El Hadji Malick Diouf
I would bracket Diouf and Ouattara together as players we have overpaid for. Both have talents but are not consistent enough to merit fees circa 40m. Whether they improve or not doesn't alter the fact that we've overpaid on what they are showing now.
There's a common denominator between these two purchases. In both cases we paid a premium for their PL experience and in both cases the selling club didn't want to sell.
It's the same situation as if a club came in with an offer for, say, VDB, Carvalho or Hickey. We'd say 'not selling, unless it's silly money'. They come back offering perhaps 40m. We'd probably then decide that kind of sum for a player who is not a regular starter is worth taking. I believe this is what happened with Ouattara and especially Diouf.
Personally I'd much rather follow the path Brighton do and overwhelmingly buy in world transfer markets where prices are cheaper.
The usual comeback to this is, 'It's not your money, why worry?' The problem with that is that the club has a limited amount of money and spending it wisely is the only way we keep punching above our weight.
For the record, I said at the start of the season that we didn't need Diouf and he wasn't worth the money. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.
There's a common denominator between these two purchases. In both cases we paid a premium for their PL experience and in both cases the selling club didn't want to sell.
It's the same situation as if a club came in with an offer for, say, VDB, Carvalho or Hickey. We'd say 'not selling, unless it's silly money'. They come back offering perhaps 40m. We'd probably then decide that kind of sum for a player who is not a regular starter is worth taking. I believe this is what happened with Ouattara and especially Diouf.
Personally I'd much rather follow the path Brighton do and overwhelmingly buy in world transfer markets where prices are cheaper.
The usual comeback to this is, 'It's not your money, why worry?' The problem with that is that the club has a limited amount of money and spending it wisely is the only way we keep punching above our weight.
For the record, I said at the start of the season that we didn't need Diouf and he wasn't worth the money. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.
Jay Bee
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BURFORD BEE
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Let me translate:
Stop wetting the bed. MB, PG, LD and KA know more than you.
Stop wetting the bed. MB, PG, LD and KA know more than you.
El Hadji Malick Diouf
Looks like he has a great cross and not sure that would have been enough for me to sign him based on having 3/4 in house players for that position….
But, if me or 99.9% of the posters on this site had been put in charge of recruitment of a mid table 3rd division team in 2011/12 I am not sure we would even be in the Football league. So whoever identified him sees a lot more than I ever would and I would trust them over me.
But, if me or 99.9% of the posters on this site had been put in charge of recruitment of a mid table 3rd division team in 2011/12 I am not sure we would even be in the Football league. So whoever identified him sees a lot more than I ever would and I would trust them over me.
Manc_Bees
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LongLostBee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
Wasn't even that bad. Just got stitched up others (particularly the keeper).Yes because no player has ever improved after joining us
Other defenders regularly make the same kind of minor mistakes as he did against Sunderland and we just didn't concede as a result.
The "mistake" for their first goal is a limp header, way upfield, that you see many of per game and we never should have conceded from. The keeper has a shocker.
The second goal is a lucky bounce for their player, Valdimarsson comes out unnecessarily and leaves the net empty, and there's a mixup between Collins and Schuster both pointing at the same man, and neither takes him (it should be Collins - but he runs aimlessly nowhere leaving him free).
The third goal, Valdimarsson goes walkies again, and leaves the goal open, but Sangaré has a shocker, at the back post, and basically tells everyone to leave it.
Reaction has been WAYYYY ott because of mistakes by others.
El Hadji Malick Diouf
Weirdly you haven't even mentioned his involvement in the second goal. His attempt at a tackle was pretty pathetic.
JCMcBee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
....it will take time to remove the flaws from this young fellas game....he came with flaws.... he's at the right club to help fix them... nurture....learning....time.... let's see.
LongLostBee
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ruislip bee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
My Westham supporting mate commented that he was very unpredictable. A bit rash defensively but good going forward. Was very surprised we paid what - £40m for him. Dont know if that was a comment on us or him!
JCMcBee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
....you see this is exactly where PG and his team are getting it wrong....they should always imo consult with supporters of the selling club before purchasing....as to avoid duds like this fella.
hanworthbee
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
West ham might think they've had our pants down but they've paid out the fee they got for Diouf on 3 players , have sacked their manager and are currently 3-0 down to Cardiff!
El Hadji Malick Diouf
You don't. You talk about a lucky bounce, that's not addressing his attempt at a tackle at all. That goal was totally down to Diouf as I see it.
marvelous007
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
One bad game and alot fans have already written him off. Unbelievable!.
I think he will come good but like some before him, may need a season to develop, be coached and intergrate with our team and tatics.
I think he will come good but like some before him, may need a season to develop, be coached and intergrate with our team and tatics.
jlove
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
He'll score a wonder goal and be a hero, then things will turn... although the usual suspects will be waiting for the next error to follow!
kaebess
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El Hadji Malick Diouf
I read ( think it was KLP ) that our style of ply takes players months to learn.
Shade for example, when he first joined people asked why he wasn’t getting game time. It was because he looked fantastic with the ball but completely lost off it, we could afford to carry him defensively for 90 minutes.
He’s 21, he’ll get there, like football in general, most are about now. That’s why they don’t succeed.
Shade for example, when he first joined people asked why he wasn’t getting game time. It was because he looked fantastic with the ball but completely lost off it, we could afford to carry him defensively for 90 minutes.
He’s 21, he’ll get there, like football in general, most are about now. That’s why they don’t succeed.
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