Igor Thiago

[Untouchable]

Scrap VAR. Keep goal line tech only.
Finally deal with simulation - large bans at a minimum.

For me this would solve enough problems to make the game much more enjoyable than it currently is.

Some further thoughts:

1) The campaign to respect referees has failed. Mandatory cautions for any player other than the captain (or the player the referee is talking to) who approaches or gobs off at the referee

2) There is a concerted effort to delay penalty kicks. All players to leave the penalty area (aside from the keeper) until the kick is ready to be taken. Mandatory cautions for offenders.

 

[brooks]

I look forward all week to every one of our games.

So do I. What's that got to do with it?

 

[Mikej23]

@Mikej23 will be along soon to explain, I'm sure.

Anyone can have an opinion but when it is aired on the biggest website in the UK as a Brentford fan view and everyone is invited to comment, it's better to be a little more measured. He doesn't represent this fan's view, that's for sure.

Given we have two red cards from basically identical situations three weeks apart, along with a pretty bad record in terms of yellow cards, I think it's fair to say we might have a discipline problem. And I don't represent every fan's view - that's not the point of what BBC Sport are doing. It's my view ie. a Brentford fan's view

 

[JANORAK]

We could have enlisted the support of MOTD’s Jonathan Pearce, (far from my favourite commentator) and his forthright views on the ‘incident’ (“game’s gone. Game’s gone”).
Or,
Maybe we did….

 

[stevil]

I look forward all week to every one of our games. Incessant moaning by some of our fans on the match day thread irritates me sometimes.

I still look forward to the games, I just enjoy it less when I get there. A bit like family holidays. Maybe I'm just getting old and curmudgeonly, but I think it's got something to the state of the game. And having teenage boys.

 

[LostBee]

Finally deal with simulation - large bans at a minimum.

The problem is the governing body just cannot prove how hurt someone was in the moment.

I stepped on a plug the other week and I'm sure it looked innocuous from a distance but I was in absolute agony!

Unless the players take some responsibility and refuse to act like complete fannys (ie zero chance) then I really don't know what else can be done.

Players should be ashamed of themselves. Do they proudly show their kids videos of them rolling around in pretend agony at the slightest touch and tell them that is the right way to behave?

Its gone too far and I'm not sure that there is any way back from here.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Given we have two red cards from basically identical situations three weeks apart, along with a pretty bad record in terms of yellow cards, I think it's fair to say we might have a discipline problem. And I don't represent every fan's view - that's not the point of what BBC Sport are doing. It's my view ie. a Brentford fan's view

It's a really sh*t view. Just my view, of course, I don't represent every fan.

 

[TadB]

....I don't think it's Atwell who's being protected... he's expendable....I firmly believe it's VAR.

How does that explain the behaviour of Referees during our matches. They clearly are harder on us. It is obvious in every game. We never get a 50 50 decision. It has been the same for several season but this is worse. Red cards now.

 

[JCMcBee]

We could have enlisted the support of MOTD’s Jonathan Pearce, (far from my favourite commentator) and his forthright views on the ‘incident’ (“game’s gone. Game’s gone”).
Or,
Maybe we did….

...JP is just an oldskool football supporter like most of us on here....he can see what's going on just like the rest of us can... and not just BFC supporters... everyone is sick to death of the stop start and unnecessary drama that VAR has introduced.... it's sucking the life out of football... it's just sad.

 

[Untouchable]

The problem is the governing body just cannot prove how hurt someone was in the moment.

Some of these situations are very straightforward though.

Jacquet v Brentford. Cheating.
Gabriel v Liverpool. Cheating.
MacAllister v Arsenal. Cheating.
Chema v Brentford. Cheating.

All examples from the last month. All easily identified as simulation. All easily remedied with a multi match ban.

 

[JCMcBee]

Given we have two red cards from basically identical situations three weeks apart, along with a pretty bad record in terms of yellow cards, I think it's fair to say we might have a discipline problem. And I don't represent every fan's view - that's not the point of what BBC Sport are doing. It's my view ie. a Brentford fan's view

.....so where does this lack of discipline come from in your opinion.

 

[Hippobee]

...JP is just an oldskool football supporter like most of us on here....he can see what's going on just like the rest of us can... and not just BFC supporters... everyone is sick to death of the stop start and unnecessary drama that VAR has introduced.... it's sucking the life out of football... it's just sad.

Managers could stop this in 2 weeks if they wanted to. But none of them has the appetite for it, because they want to win (or not lose) at ALL costs. Whatever it takes.

Many posters know I get sick of the ref bashing on here. But the truth is the players and coaches are making many games almost impossible to referee with their grabbing, holding, diving and play acting.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Some further thoughts:

1) The campaign to respect referees has failed. Mandatory cautions for any player other than the captain (or the player the referee is talking to) who approaches or gobs off at the referee

2) There is a concerted effort to delay penalty kicks. All players to leave the penalty area (aside from the keeper) until the kick is ready to be taken. Mandatory cautions for offenders.

All very sensible and costs nothing to implement. There are many ideas like this that would make the game better and could be added very easily. However, for years the FA choose not to implement such ideas but instead bring in rules such as the player needing treatment after a tackle having to go off for a minute, the goalkeeper having only 8 seconds to kick the ball and a time limit on long throws. All of these ideas adding nought to the game and are generally not enforced anyway. The game is run by idiots, and i say again football is finished.

 

[Mikej23]

.....so where does this lack of discipline come from.

Maybe the two red cards from identical situations?? Whatever you think about the rule/decision, why give the ref a decision to make?

 

[JANORAK]

The problem is the governing body just cannot prove how hurt someone was in the moment.

I stepped on a plug the other week and I'm sure it looked innocuous from a distance but I was in absolute agony!

Unless the players take some responsibility and refuse to act like complete fannys (ie zero chance) then I really don't know what else can be done.

Players should be ashamed of themselves. Do they proudly show their kids videos of them rolling around in pretend agony at the slightest touch and tell them that is the right way to behave?

Its gone too far and I'm not sure that there is any way back from here.

Sin bins? An early start every game might nip shenanigans in the bud. Continuing/repetition would result in the seats staying warm. We’d soon see who’s a tactical genius, if they’d got 3 ‘in the bin’.

 

[JCMcBee]

Maybe the two red cards from identical situations?? Whatever you think about the rule/decision, why give the ref a decision to make?

.... are you implying there's a lack of discipline across the whole team..... surely discipline emanates from the coaches....they are the ones who should be blamed perhaps for this lack of discipline.

 

[TadB]

Maybe the two red cards from identical situations?? Whatever you think about the rule/decision, why give the ref a decision to make?

Do you not think that there could be bias here?

 

[LostBee]

Some of these situations are very straightforward though.

Jacquet v Brentford. Cheating.
Gabriel v Liverpool. Cheating.
MacAllister v Arsenal. Cheating.
Chema v Brentford. Cheating.

All examples from the last month. All easily identified as simulation. All easily remedied with a multi match ban.

The two involving us, both players were struck in the face.

Yes they instigated the whole thing and completely overexaggerated the contact but they can reasonably argue, if charged with simulation, that they were legitamately hurt in those incidents and no one can prove otherwise.

Until players take collective responsibility, the game is f***ed.

 

[aawharris]

The problem is the governing body just cannot prove how hurt someone was in the moment.

I stepped on a plug the other week and I'm sure it looked innocuous from a distance but I was in absolute agony!

Unless the players take some responsibility and refuse to act like complete fannys (ie zero chance) then I really don't know what else can be done.

Players should be ashamed of themselves. Do they proudly show their kids videos of them rolling around in pretend agony at the slightest touch and tell them that is the right way to behave?

Its gone too far and I'm not sure that there is any way back from here.

Take MacAllister as a perfect example.
Madueke was cleared of making contact with his head, yet MacAllister went down like he was dead.
Pretty simple to prove that was cheating, but they didnt.

 

[aawharris]

Maybe the two red cards from identical situations?? Whatever you think about the rule/decision, why give the ref a decision to make?

Is a lack of discipline also from those provoking opposition players?

 

[Mikej23]

.... are you implying there's a lack of discipline across the whole team..... surely discipline emanates from the coaches....they are the ones who should be blamed perhaps for this lack of discipline.

Yes mate, I'm sure Keith said to Yarmo and Igor before the game to go out and get yourself sent off for no reason I'm implying the players lack discipline - remove yourself from the situation and don't get conned into red cards

 

[Mikej23]

Is a lack of discipline also from those provoking opposition players?

Maybe but who cares if you're Brighton/Liverpool They might lack sportsmanship rather than 'discipline'... but they won the game and sportsmanship doesn't get you three points

 

[JCMcBee]

Yes mate, I'm sure Keith said to Yarmo and Igor before the game to go out and get yourself sent off for no reason I'm implying the players lack discipline - remove yourself from the situation and don't get conned into red cards

...all you are doing is feeding the narrative that BFC are an aggressive team lacking in discipline....if you think that we are an aggressive and physical side lacking in discipline I respect your opinion....but I don't agree with it.

 

[aawharris]

Maybe but who cares if you're Brighton/Liverpool They might lack sportsmanship rather than 'discipline'... but they won the game and sportsmanship doesn't get you three points

Is a lack of discipline cheating your fellow professionals?
I would certainly suggest it is - especially if it is coached into players by a coach like Iraola.

 

[w6bee]

There is a solution to simulation and that is that every game gets reviewed after the weekend any player who dives or goes down clutching his eyes when his shoulder (or chin) is brushed receives a retrospective yellow card. But for whatever reason the Premier League and the wider football world do not support this for some reason. Chema would have got one on Sunday as he had a cut lip but was clutching his eyes as he went down.

The other area they could change is the actual time left to play being displayed rather than an arbitrary 4/5/6 minutes being added. We have seen games where time added on has been “light” when we have been losing. Maybe changing this would not support certain narratives of favoured teams though.

 

[Surrey Bee]

This makes me so angry. If some cheating c u next thursday like Andres or Jacquet goes down like he's been hit with a pick axe to get get an opponent sent off it makes you think you might as well make sure he really has got reason to roll around clutching his face. Which saddens me.

 

[BEEcool]

I actually think matey has actually tried to bite Thiago's arm

 

[larrysigny]

Maybe but who cares if you're Brighton/Liverpool They might lack sportsmanship rather than 'discipline'... but they won the game and sportsmanship doesn't get you three points

And that shows perfectly what's wrong with the game. If you need to cheat to get points - then cheat.

 

[Ken_Hom's_Wok]

Sin bins? An early start every game might nip shenanigans in the bud. Continuing/repetition would result in the seats staying warm. We’d soon see who’s a tactical genius, if they’d got 3 ‘in the bin’.

The trouble is sending someone off now is so disproportionately punitive given how well coached and how fit these teams and players are. If you go a man down now you practically have no chance of winning, or playing competitively (basically relying on set pieces) if you are behind already.

Was never in favour of sin bins, but the punishment outweighs the crime. The black card system (forced substitution) seems to be fairer in GAA

 

[Jezybee]

Looking to the future, Thiago pretty much has a month off. Dismissed after 23 minutes on 8th November, won’t play again until 20:00 on 5th December vs Man City.

An opportunity to recharge physically and mentally. Also can work one-to-one, with more time, specifically on strategies to combat the treatment he’s received from opposition defenders so far this season.

It’ll be hard not having him in the team but trust the coaching staff and Thiago. Who knows, might be the event that turns his season. Still 25 games to go when he’s back. Plus 3 games where he won’t pick up his 5th yellow.

 

[Jim McNicol Legend]

I think KA is right when he said that there is a game going on within a game. It’s plainly obvious that some players are going down very easily holding their faces when they haven’t been touched. The worst example I’ve seen this season apart from Jacquet and Chema was the one involving Kevin and the right back Munoz of Liverpool. Munoz was kicking and pulling Kevin all over the place during the game but unfortunately Kevin eventually reacted and pushed Munoz lightly in the chest - shamefully Munoz went down clutching his face and rolling over like he’d been pole axed. Totally shameful and disgusting behaviour trying to get a fellow professional sent off. Keving received a yellow card but it could have been worse. Re the appeal, it was never going to succeed because a) we are not a top six club with money and b) they were never going to go against a decision made by their golden boy referee.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I think KA is right when he said that there is a game going on within a game. It’s plainly obvious that some players are going down very easily holding their faces when they haven’t been touched. The worst example I’ve seen this season apart from Jacquet and Chema was the one involving Kevin and the right back Munoz of Liverpool. Munoz was kicking and pulling Kevin all over the place during the game but unfortunately Kevin eventually reacted and pushed Munoz lightly in the chest - shamefully Munoz went down clutching his face and rolling over like he’d been pole axed. Totally shameful and disgusting behaviour trying to get a fellow professional sent off. Keving received a yellow card but it could have been worse. Re the appeal, it was never going to succeed because a) we are not a top six club with money and b) they were never going to go against a decision made by their golden boy referee.

The Munoz incident - the booking was apparently on the 4th official recommendation, the referee (Brookes) didn't see it. Truly bizarre.

 

[Vid]

At our next attacking corner every Brentford player including our goalkeeper should fall to the ground. Just to make a demonstration.

 

[Banana]

Is it still the case that failed appeals see the ban extended by an extra game (and include the Man City match)?

There is scope for the ban to be doubled. But in practice that is when (say) the Premier League appeal to the FA to extend the ban because the violent conduct was particularly egregious.

 

[Banana]

Graham Scott in the The Athletic Q&A section

(Graham Scott refereed in the Premier League for a decade before retiring in 2025 to return to his previous career as a journalist. He was a video assistant referee more than 100 times and brings a unique insight into how officials operate, both on the pitch and in the video booth.)

Nat C: You partially justified the non-giving of a stonewall red card for Gabriel last season for a headbutt because he was walking backwards. That seems mad. Is it OK to punch somebody in the face, as long as you’re walking backwards? Do you therefore disagree with the Igor Thiago red card on Sunday, as he was in the process of trying to walk away?

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality, regardless of whether contact is made. The law adds: “A player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.”

Back in April, Gabriel escaped a red card because the contact with Erling Haaland’s head was judged negligible - in part because he was moving backwards - and the level of force deemed reckless, not excessive. Both were knife-edge judgements. A red card would have been defensible, but a yellow was not ridiculous.

On Sunday at Brighton, Thiago’s forearm made significant contact with Chema Andres in the face - even though he was moving away -and the level of force could hardly be described as “minimal”.

At the time of writing, Brentford had announced an appeal. Their case will surely hang on the word “deliberately”, as Thiago could argue he was shrugging off unwanted attention and Andres was unfortunate to be in harm’s way.

Thiago has my sympathy, as his actions looked more petulant than violent, but I doubt an FA disciplinary panel will conclude he was not guilty.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Seems about right.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Bloody hell. Even worse.

Chair is former Sheffield United striker Tony Agana.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

I still look forward to the games, I just enjoy it less when I get there. A bit like family holidays. Maybe I'm just getting old and curmudgeonly, but I think it's got something to the state of the game. And having teenage boys.

Totally agree about family holidays- Brilliant analogy.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

Also, hasn’t this thread turned into the kind of pity party we ruin Notts Forest for?

 

[Hullbee]

Anyone know when we might be able to discuss his goal scoring abilities again

 

[Gazza Bee]

Anyone know when we might be able to discuss his goal scoring abilities again

5th Dec....

 

[RoyBee]

Hugely disappointing. We must have thought there was a very decent chance of that being overturned. Like many, I’m becoming increasingly disillusioned with football.

 

[GuyBee]

It's a really sh*t view. Just my view, of course, I don't represent every fan.

A good view, but unfortunately expressed on a minorty (but much valued) forum. Unlike @Mikej23 , who effectively represented Brentford on a platform read by football fans of all clubs all over the world. If you 'speak' publicly you have to know your audience and the potential impact.

If you want a case study @Mikej23, take a look at Keith Andrews post match interview. I am sure he was seething, but he pitched it just right.

 

[Romt2]

The two involving us, both players were struck in the face.

Yes they instigated the whole thing and completely overexaggerated the contact but they can reasonably argue, if charged with simulation, that they were legitamately hurt in those incidents and no one can prove otherwise.

Until players take collective responsibility, the game is f***ed.

You genuinely believe, having watched those incidents, there is a reasonable argument that they were hurt? Not a chance.

It's so clearly obvious to 99% of fans to see what is and isn't cheating, it shouldn't be difficult to go back an punish those who have cheated.

 

[GuyBee]

Sin bins? An early start every game might nip shenanigans in the bud. Continuing/repetition would result in the seats staying warm. We’d soon see who’s a tactical genius, if they’d got 3 ‘in the bin’.

I am in favour of sin bins. I think every yellow card should be a 10 minute sin bin.

Why? take Vitally's second yellow in the Liverpool match where the scouse striker was in a good position to score. Assume for a minute we were 1-0 up and it was his first yellow. A yellow at that time in the game provides no benefit to Liverpool, in fact the benefit goes to all of Liverpool's competitors (the rest of the league) because as his 5th yellow he misses the next game.

All a Kevin breakaway on the 85th minute, pulled down on the halfway line.

 

[TorbayBee]

Should we not encourage our players to react to the new trend of active provocation by just going to ground, no play acting just avoid the macho push and shove. Once it’s done just get up and get on with the game. In short manage the situation rather than react to it.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Should we not encourage our players to react to the new trend of active provocation by just going to ground, no play acting just avoid the macho push and shove. Once it’s done just get up and get on with the game. In short manage the situation rather than react to it.

I think more and more teams will adopt these tactics, because you get the decision. I think the FA will eventually do something about it but it will take some time, so using that logic we should join the club which will hopefully speed up a response. Either way we need to be smarter or we will continue to come off second best. We generally play by the rules but i dont want us to become naive thinking this situation will magically right itself in the game over night, because it wont.

 

[TorbayBee]

I think more and more teams will adopt these tactics, because you get the decision. I think the FA will eventually do something about it but it will take some time, so using that logic we should join the club which will hopefully speed up a response. Either way we need to be smarter or we will continue to come off second best. We generally play by the rules but i dont want us to become naive thinking this situation will magically right itself in the game over night, because it wont.

Spot on.
As the coach of my Sunday morning team told me years ago ‘don’t play the Parish priest , no-one cares’

 

[badgerbee]

I think more and more teams will adopt these tactics, because you get the decision. I think the FA will eventually do something about it but it will take some time, so using that logic we should join the club which will hopefully speed up a response. Either way we need to be smarter or we will continue to come off second best. We generally play by the rules but i dont want us to become naive thinking this situation will magically right itself in the game over night, because it wont.

Now, I wonder which team(s) will be the first to be punished for simulating/exaggerating an injury..........??
In fact I don't wonder at all..........And I know 100% which teams it definitely won't be.........

 

[True Bee]

I think more and more teams will adopt these tactics, because you get the decision. I think the FA will eventually do something about it but it will take some time, so using that logic we should join the club which will hopefully speed up a response. Either way we need to be smarter or we will continue to come off second best. We generally play by the rules but i dont want us to become naive thinking this situation will magically right itself in the game over night, because it wont.

This whole situation is ridiculous, people are saying it's the right decision as you shouldn't react to provocation but let's be totally honest here neither YY or Thiago's are red cards, having played and watched football for years these two so called acts of violent contact are laughable and until football sits up and realises that it's being laughed at by all other sports then these farcical decisions will continue to be made. I watched England V Australia on Sunday and it was a pleasure to watch true sportsmen acting with respect for each other whilst knocking ten tonnes of s--t out of each other and not behaving like spoilt kids !!!!!!