Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Les Beeavinu said:
All very sensible but the club will not be able to exploit any of the potential without a significant increase in costs which of course will eat into any surplus from a GP sale.
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I don't understand where you're getting this significant interests in costs from. Can you explain that part of your argument?
As far as I'm concerned, the debt from building the new stadium doesn't matter that much because the financing of the whole project incorporating the sale of Griffin Park, and most importantly the paying off of current debts with the proceeds, will create a new, more manageable debt, rather than the oppressively unmanageable one the club has now. Yes, the Lionel Road project creates a new debt, but that's ok because the new debt will be more manageable with what should be a negotiated better interest rate as it'll be more akin to a mortgage than an outright bank loan and the money will be owed to one party, rather than many.
A new stadium also brings with it the previously-discussed benefits (hopefully, with good planning and negotiation) resulting in varied and more profitable revenue streams outside of your fortnightly Brentford league match.
Think of it, in a way, as a form of debt consolidation without the filthy interest rate, and you're probably most of the way there.
Ask Carol Vordermann :)
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

VTG said:
A new stadium also brings with it the previously-discussed benefits (hopefully, with good planning and negotiation) resulting in varied and more profitable revenue streams outside of your fortnightly Brentford league match.
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And may convince Chelsea reserves to continue with us when this current arrangement ends (in 3 years?)
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

VTG said:
I don't understand where you're getting this significant interests in costs from. Can you explain that part of your argument?
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Brentford is run on a shoe string. If you're selling hospitality, that means more marketing people, staff to look after events, maintenance, administration etc. People using Lionel Road's hospitality will demand far higher standards than us Bees fans put up with. Off the field staff costs would have to double at least I reckon.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

The reason why I don't believe Lionel Road will ever happen is easy to explain - nobody has ever provided a reasonable explanation of where the money will come from to fund this.

The cost of buying the land and building the stadium may well exceed the revenues from the sale of Griffin Park even without counting the current debt (some people seem to be forgetting that the Olympics will drive up the wages of builders). I can't see a building firm throwing several million in the way of Brentford unless they get a commercial return on their investment and the Sugar Daddy route doesn't appear to be on Bees United's agenda.

When somebody comes up with a credible explanation of how it can be funded then I'll start to believe it's possible, until then I'll believe the stadium is as likely as the monorail station.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Les Beeavinu said:
Brentford is run on a shoe string. If you're selling hospitality, that means more marketing people, staff to look after events, maintenance, administration etc. People using Lionel Road's hospitality will demand far higher standards than us Bees fans put up with. Off the field staff costs would have to double at least I reckon.
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It would and probably more, but hopefully covered by addtional income streams. Not just matchday hospitality but many more weekday events.
I would hope that a well thought out business plan would cover all the bases to explain to fans what would be hoped for. You would also likeley have business partners who may well supplement resourse costs.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Les Beeavinu said:
People using Lionel Road's hospitality will demand far higher standards than us Bees fans put up with. Off the field staff costs would have to double at least I reckon.
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True Les, but i`d imagine football hospitality / conferences etc would just be a small % of hoped for income should enough facilities be feasible. An all singing all dancing new stadium would need a strong commercial dept.
I`m thinking of music venue or even a nightclub incorpoated within the stadium which could generate decent revenue if it was permitted and well run. TW8 lacks a venue like that IMHO, and with a train station potentially on the stadium`s door step (plus numerous bus routes) the place could have amazing possibilities if it ever happens..... :wave:
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Simon T said:
The reason why I don't believe Lionel Road will ever happen is easy to explain - nobody has ever provided a reasonable explanation of where the money will come from to fund this.

The cost of buying the land and building the stadium may well exceed the revenues from the sale of Griffin Park even without counting the current debt (some people seem to be forgetting that the Olympics will drive up the wages of builders). I can't see a building firm throwing several million in the way of Brentford unless they get a commercial return on their investment and the Sugar Daddy route doesn't appear to be on Bees United's agenda.

When somebody comes up with a credible explanation of how it can be funded then I'll start to believe it's possible, until then I'll believe the stadium is as likely as the monorail station.
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The funding comes from what's known as "enabling development" - ie other buildings that will be built on the site (and at GP), which are profitable enough to subsidise the cost of the stadium - but wouldn't be allowed to happen without the stadium happening too. I don't believe this has been a secret and has always been part of the plans BU have been putting forward.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Edmundo said:
The funding comes from what's known as "enabling development" - ie other buildings that will be built on the site (and at GP), which are profitable enough to subsidise the cost of the stadium - but wouldn't be allowed to happen without the stadium happening too. I don't believe this has been a secret and has always been part of the plans BU have been putting forward.
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How would that affect PJ's plans above then? Would we only be able to profit from the stadium itself?
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Les Beeavinu said:
How would that affect PJ's plans above then? Would we only be able to profit from the stadium itself?
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"My plans" is over-egging it just a wee bit Les lol Just an idea. An ice rink might also work ;)

On your second point i think that would largely depend on who (if anyone) jumped into bed with BFC on a project like this; ie sports and/or commercial partner or who knows even LBH :wave:
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Les Beeavinu said:
How would that affect PJ's plans above then? Would we only be able to profit from the stadium itself?
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Yes, but it depends on what is built into the stadium itself. No reason why it can't have plenty of facilities and rooms that double up as hospitality on match days and conference/meeting rooms on other days.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

:fishing:
Edmundo said:
The funding comes from what's known as "enabling development" - ie other buildings that will be built on the site (and at GP), which are profitable enough to subsidise the cost of the stadium - but wouldn't be allowed to happen without the stadium happening too. I don't believe this has been a secret and has always been part of the plans BU have been putting forward.
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A pub on each corner then?! :fishing:
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Edmundo said:
The funding comes from what's known as "enabling development" - ie other buildings that will be built on the site (and at GP), which are profitable enough to subsidise the cost of the stadium - but wouldn't be allowed to happen without the stadium happening too. I don't believe this has been a secret and has always been part of the plans BU have been putting forward.
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Have the council given any indication that planning permission for the site will ONLY be granted if a football stadium is part of the development? If that isn't the case then why would any developer waste money building a stadium when they could put something more profitable on the site?
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

There seems to be an assumption on this thread that BFC will be a "stakeholder" in the new stadium. Is it not more likely given our probable thin profit from the sale of GP (assuming we then quickly clear the debts) that we will merely be renting the ground - but hopefully on favourable terms?

I think this is what happens at Coventry. I read somewhere that the Ricoh stadium makes a profit without a ball being kicked due to its multifarious other uses and Coventry City are just tenants. Apologies if this point has already been covered...
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Simon T said:
Have the council given any indication that planning permission for the site will ONLY be granted if a football stadium is part of the development? If that isn't the case then why would any developer waste money building a stadium when they could put something more profitable on the site?
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I'm not the person to be asking detailed questions, but I think the answer to this lies in the link to the Griffin park site and the fact that the council and Ken Livingstone are thought to be supportive.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

My understanding is that:

a) we won't own the stadium, we will rent it and probably have a 'golden' share or whatever they are called
b) the only way the numbers work for the development of Lionel Road is if the Twin Towers full of apartments are included in the development

Quite what happens if the residents object to two blocks of flats and the Council don't grant permission, I really don't know. Pressure on Hounslow Council to grant permission though as they have a £500K loan they will want back at some point and they may only get that if GP can be sold.

As far as the valuation of GP goes, it's all academic if we end up owing so much in loans by the time we move to GP that it wipes out most of the profit of the sale. A £13m valuation is only worth something if the Club is run on a break-even budget and we aren't going cap in hand for extended overdrafts or loans between now and the move to Lionel Road....which by my calculations is June 26th 2008 as that will be the end of the 5-year period of waiting.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Where's the imagination....?
Forget a Tesco / Asda jobby then like Everton ( would help though with the jammy dodgers carbo diet introduced by TB ). Slap a 5 star hotel in one corner / nightclub and casino in the other. Sport science college at the back / relocate the Sky headquarters and build a shed load of housing called mews / condos instead of flats integrated with a new shopping mall and a new US Embassy building with heli pad link to City and Heathrow airport.
Seems pretty straight forward to me all this enabling development ;)
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Nurse Betty said:
My understanding is that:

a) we won't own the stadium, we will rent it and probably have a 'golden' share or whatever they are called
b) the only way the numbers work for the development of Lionel Road is if the Twin Towers full of apartments are included in the development

Quite what happens if the residents object to two blocks of flats and the Council don't grant permission, I really don't know. Pressure on Hounslow Council to grant permission though as they have a £500K loan they will want back at some point and they may only get that if GP can be sold.

As far as the valuation of GP goes, it's all academic if we end up owing so much in loans by the time we move to GP that it wipes out most of the profit of the sale. A £13m valuation is only worth something if the Club is run on a break-even budget and we aren't going cap in hand for extended overdrafts or loans between now and the move to Lionel Road....which by my calculations is June 26th 2008 as that will be the end of the 5-year period of waiting.
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Sounds like last-chance saloon to me. If this is ****ed up, the club is dead.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Although we are deep in debt at the moment, our saving grace is the value of the ground which we own. If we move to a stadium where we are tenants, even if we pay off this debt by doing so, and then in 10+ years time we get deep in debt again then we'll have nothing to fall back on, and likely go bust.

IMO it's crazy to move away from GP unless we have ownership of the new stadium and land.

Land values in London will only continue to increase, BFC need to continue to benefit from these increases, the moment we go to rent, that's all over.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Idaho Bee said:
Although we are deep in debt at the moment, our saving grace is the value of the ground which we own. If we move to a stadium where we are tenants, even if we pay off this debt by doing so, and then in 10+ years time we get deep in debt again then we'll have nothing to fall back on, and likely go bust.

IMO it's crazy to move away from GP unless we have ownership of the new stadium and land.

Land values in London will only continue to increase, BFC need to continue to benefit from these increases, the moment we go to rent, that's all over.
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Idaho, I don't think there was ever any chance that we would own the new ground. Noades plunged us into a horrific debt situation that has only worsened in the last few years and what is keeping the Club alive at the moment is the value of the GP ground. That's the only collatoral we have against which to borrow. If the rate of borrowing continues at it's recent pace, I am not sure how much money will be left over after the GP sale.

It's not a state secret that we have a budget deficit every year but there is light at the end of the tunnel because our esteemed Chairman, Mr Greg Dyke, assured us all at the last Fans Forum that we would be running at break-even - what was it? - in two years and Brian Burgess said in the August BU Q&A:

Detailed consultations take place between the Bees United nominees on the Club board and their colleagues on both the Trust and Club boards. As well as the short term budget and cashflow issues these discussions focus on the medium term need to get the Club to a breakeven budget over the next few years and to raise the necessary funds to plug the gaps. The deal with Matthew Benham to reduce the Club’s interest costs was very helpful and the boards of the Club and Bees United as the majority shareholder are looking at other initiatives to improve the financial stability of the Club.


Add to that this extract from the BU minutes for August:

A proposal was put that following consultation on the budget figures over the
previous months that the board resolve to ratify the BFC budget. The board
noted the cashflow requirement contained within, and that funds would need
to be introduced to the club during the financial year to ensure that the
budget could be funded. The proposal was approved by a majority.


and you start to wonder what could possibly go wrong?
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Anyone know when building work starts?:fishing:







60 moon?:sneakoff:
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

Idaho Bee said:
Although we are deep in debt at the moment, our saving grace is the value of the ground which we own. If we move to a stadium where we are tenants, even if we pay off this debt by doing so, and then in 10+ years time we get deep in debt again then we'll have nothing to fall back on, and likely go bust.

IMO it's crazy to move away from GP unless we have ownership of the new stadium and land.

Land values in London will only continue to increase, BFC need to continue to benefit from these increases, the moment we go to rent, that's all over.
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Time Lionel rd comes off, I will be a heap of dust housed in a coffin, six feet under.
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

readingbee said:
Sadly I think I'll be there as well WWB..............depressing isn't it :sad:
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You want to have a word with your kids now if you think they're going to bury you in west wilts bee's coffin :nono:
 

Brentford FC set up Lionel Road stadium company

....well played Gloworm..............
 
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