World Cup Qatar 2022 - Can it be Stopped?

red_and_white · 30 Mar 2014

Is Football worth so many lives?

2 people died in South Africa building stadia for 2010
7 people have died in South America for 2014
1200 people have died already building Qatar's venues.

How is this not bigger news? Does this make anyone else angry?Can anything be done here to stop it?

Surely national federations can take a united stand with a threat to boycott - the amount of deaths is far too many.

The estimated death toll is 4,000. As one website put it, that's more than 9/11 - and by choice.

Hudgebadger · 30 Mar 2014

It wasn't baffled by the great footballing nation of Qatar getting the world cup.....
They have a fine football heritage, and money to throw at FiFA officials to help them realize the logic of hosting the 2022 cup in Qatar.

ladbroke · 30 Mar 2014

A lot of deaths etc are down to pressures to get everything right and on time. If they had no target to hit to get it built it may be 'safer'...
Competitions should be given to those that are ready. Some stadiums may need a touch up at best.

red_and_white · 30 Mar 2014

In Brazil, yes. However they have 8 years to build Qatar stadiums. It's less the timing and more the living conditions of workers and heat exhaustion due to near slave labour.

Owlsmoor_Bee · 30 Mar 2014

ladbroke said:
A lot of deaths etc are down to pressures to get everything right and on time. If they had no target to hit to get it built it may be 'safer'...
Competitions should be given to those that are ready. Some stadiums may need a touch up at best.

I suspect the deaths are far more the result of poor working practice than anything else. You simply wouldn't see that here with the rigorous health and safety practices e played on UK construction sites.

bees66 · 30 Mar 2014

I am sure when wembley was being built they had a death aswell..

ladbroke · 30 Mar 2014

red_and_white said:
In Brazil, yes. However they have 8 years to build Qatar stadiums. It's less the timing and more the living conditions of workers and heat exhaustion due to near slave labour.

May be 8 years to build but as you pointed out, the conditions are such worse in that what they work in they can't be out there all day where say a builder in England could be. So the time to build these venues would take a bjt longer than the norm.
They have nothing from what I understand that is being 'upgraded' and it's all being built from scratch.

hanworthbee · 30 Mar 2014

1200 have died in Qatar? really?

horshambees · 30 Mar 2014

How many people died building the City of Dubai ?

How many people got paid for building the City of Dubai ?

How many people had no rights at all in building the City of Dubai ?

Be the same in Qatar.

Builders will come from Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal and live in squalid conditions working 7 days a week for nothing.

No passports no rights no money while working.

Pixelator · 30 Mar 2014

The thing is, it is big news. A quick search will bring up newspaper articles from all over the world, all telling pretty grim stories. I suspect we fail to take in news which isn't on TV with video coverage.

Giving the world cup to Qatar is being described by some as a humanitarian disaster. Immigrant workers are suffering inhumane conditions and dying at a rate of almost 1 per day, and then there are also the issues of bribery, unplayable heat, homosexuality being illegal, and Qatar not recognising Israel as a state. Oh, and the promise of air-conditioned stadiums appears to have been a load of hot air.

While searching for information on the internet, I also came across articles about foreign players having their passports confiscated by their employers and effectively being held prisoners without pay.

It doesn't matter who's to blame, finger pointing won't stop anything. The solution has to come from FIFA and the Qatari authorities, and it's doubtful that they will do anything unless they are pushed hard. Players and fans should be pressurising their national FAs to threaten to boycott the tournament, and fans can tell the TV companies that they'll be boycotting the coverage.

If we do nothing and then watch this world cup as though nothing had happened, some of that blood will be on our hands.

We all want to see a stadium that looks like a giant vagina, but is it worth it?

The Pipe · 30 Mar 2014

A very cohesive argument for pulling it out of Quatar however I can assure you the chances if that happening are the same as Fulham winning the champions league. Absolutely nil.

Big monies are involved here and big companies, lots of palm greasing and footballs well known position of burying its head in the sands

However bad things may seem unfortunately the millions of dollars involved ensure that issues such as you highlight are conveniently overlooked and unfortunately the news media that might put pressure on are all thinking more of future advertising income than human suffering

pauljd1964 · 30 Mar 2014

http://http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/2022-world-cup-qatar-accused-3303458[/URL]

Quick Google search-truly shocking and unbelievable.

Indian Bee · 30 Mar 2014

horshambees said:
How many people died building the City of Dubai ?

How many people got paid for building the City of Dubai ?

How many people had no rights at all in building the City of Dubai ?

Be the same in Qatar.

Builders will come from Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal and live in squalid conditions working 7 days a week for nothing.

No passports no rights no money while working.

Completely agree. My second cousin who has now returned to India spent 7 years in Dubai as a builder in his late teens early 20s - he was telling me the conditions he endured in 'building' Dubai whereby they took his passport away until 1) he paid off his flight fare 2) until the work was complete. In addition he was living with 7 men in one room. He was not educated, brought up in a farm but the only bright point was he did get paid - the amount probably not much for many of us but helped support his family. Cheap labour is often used with no consideration of the health and safety of the workers.

jlove · 30 Mar 2014

hanworthbee said:
1200 have died in Qatar? really?

I think it is 900 construction workers in total on all sites, not just football, in Qatar ‒ still unacceptable. I think the true figure in South Africa was also quite high but there the government control the reporting. There was a very heavy H&S element within the ODA for London; I did some IT work there and had to go through it all!

I'm not sure that campaigns against Johnny foreigners are worth much effort, though, although it will salve the burning in the self-righteous.

Stanley · 31 Mar 2014

Truth is apart from the British media who else is bothered?

The whole 2018/22 bidding process was farcical but nothing will change as too many people have too much to lose. Scandal after scandal may fall upon FIFA but they seem impervious to it all.

The other point about Qatar is that it had no real footballing heritage before and it will have none after.

jlove · 31 Mar 2014

Stanley said:
The other point about Qatar is that it had no real footballing heritage before and it will have none after.

Manchester City?

Pixelator · 31 Mar 2014

The Pipe said:
A very cohesive argument for pulling it out of Quatar however I can assure you the chances if that happening are the same as Fulham winning the champions league. Absolutely nil.

Big monies are involved here and big companies, lots of palm greasing and footballs well known position of burying its head in the sands

However bad things may seem unfortunately the millions of dollars involved ensure that issues such as you highlight are conveniently overlooked and unfortunately the news media that might put pressure on are all thinking more of future advertising income than human suffering

The media exist to report the news, they're doing that. Putting pressure on football authorities and governments is our responsibility, as football fans we are the ones with the collective financial might.

I found this site, which appears to be sponsored by the ITUC, the organisation that is trying hardest to bring the situation to light.

Maybe we need something similar for football fans. Imagine if a million fans in England pledged to boycott world cup qualifiers, or if a hundred million worldwide pledged not to watch the finals on TV.

Stanley said:
Truth is apart from the British media who else is bothered?

A simple internet search will answer that question for you. If you're able to search in another language, even more so.

jlove · 31 Mar 2014

Pixelator said:
... sponsored by the ITUC...

That is a left-wing labour organisation, specifically set up to lobby the ILO in Geneva; mainly jobs for-the-boys (my friend's father worked at the ILO).

Pixelator · 31 Mar 2014

...which is of course why I didn't suggest we all sign their petition. Our message needs to go to the football authorities and TV companies.

Stanley · 31 Mar 2014

Pixelator said:
A simple internet search will answer that question for you. If you're able to search in another language, even more so.

In terms of worker conditions and "slavery" I agree but in terms of challenging the processes and decisions to award the 2018/22 world cups I see few other nations (Governments or footballing authorities) really willing to put themselves in the firing line. I get the impression that even the FA have decided to take a back seat now as every comment they make is just seen as sour grapes for not getting 2018. I thought the Yanks might take up the battle but not much more than hot air so far.

It would be great to see some sort of collective action against FIFA, particularly Blatter and his cronies, but just can't see it as he has survived the most outrageous of allegations

Stanley · 1 Jun 2014

After the latest "revelations" will there be a rerun of the bid? given they have spent millions already on building the stadiums etc I can't see it happening but there again the whole summer/ winter thing has got FIFA into one hell of a mess, could be a way out for them....

Nada Bee · 1 Jun 2014

I am truly shocked by these allegations.

I am sure Fifa are totally innocent of any wrong doing.

:fishing:

hobbsy · 1 Jun 2014

So we get an internal FIFA inquiry into whether FIFA are corrupt.....hmmm.

jlove · 1 Jun 2014

Sunday Times in return to journalism shock.

Or, just maybe: Sky does not get TV rights to Qatar World Cup...

wibs · 1 Jun 2014

jlove said:
Sunday Times in return to journalism shock.

Or, just maybe: Sky does not get TV rights to Qatar World Cup...

Impressive cynisism.

Bigbee · 1 Jun 2014

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27654587

FlyBee · 1 Jun 2014

Lionel Road as a 2022 venue if we win the rebid??

beebopalula · 1 Jun 2014

hobbsy said:
So we get an internal FIFA inquiry into whether FIFA are corrupt.....hmmm.

Of course ! Bo**ox isn't it. FIFA is so corrupt it makes me sick. I'd like to see the european nations break away and form their own federation with an invite to South America. As so many of the other continents have corrupt officials they can apply to be admitted and be considered individually. Blatter and his cronies can run what's left to them.
Any country whose officials are found to have been involved in corruption should be banned from international competition for 10 years.

opinions5u · 1 Jun 2014

FlyBee said:
Lionel Road as a 2022 venue if we win the rebid??

We won't.

But if we did you should certainly offer it up as a training base and for pre-tournament friendlies.

Stanley · 1 Jun 2014

Looks like sides are being taken within FIFA for forthcoming elections, Blatter's comment that Qatar was a mistake was not a casual slip of the tongue..... Platini is heavily linked to Qatar through the French Government I wonder how he will come out of all this.

Plug One · 1 Jun 2014

Nada Bee said:
I am truly shocked by these allegations.

I am sure Fifa are totally innocent of any wrong doing.

And that lovely man Jack Warner accepted no bribes whatsoever in the process.

Boscombe Bee · 1 Jun 2014

The only way Qatar will have the World Cup removed is if Blatter and his family dont see any major profit in it for themselves. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if someone has bought up all the hotel rooms during the proposed period before the Blatter family have.

Ealing Bee · 1 Jun 2014

Stanley said:
Looks like sides are being taken within FIFA for forthcoming elections, Blatter's comment that Qatar was a mistake was not a casual slip of the tongue..... Platini is heavily linked to Qatar through the French Government I wonder how he will come out of all this.

It can be no mere coincidence that this has all come out - apparently from a FIFA insider - just before Blatter's bid to get re-elected.

When previous scandals involving his (erstwhile) buddies Warner and Bin Hammam (and lesser others), Blatter always managed to distance himself from them.

But if the whole bid process should be proven beyond doubt to have been corrupt, and he tries to take it away from Qatar to protect his own image, then they will surely take him down with them.

And if he doesn't act against them, then he will have no defence to the charge that the whole scandal occurred on his watch.

And even with his brass neck, he will find it extremely difficult to demonstrate that he remains fit for another term as President after that.

Meanwhile, Andrew Jennings has a lot of very interesting stuff on Blatter, if anyone has a month or two free to skim through it:
http://www.transparencyinsport.org/

Simon T · 3 Jun 2014

Stanley said:
Looks like sides are being taken within FIFA for forthcoming elections, Blatter's comment that Qatar was a mistake was not a casual slip of the tongue..... Platini is heavily linked to Qatar through the French Government I wonder how he will come out of all this.

Platini's links aren't just through the French government - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...2-France-embroiled-in-corruption-scandal.html

zuko · 3 Jun 2014

FlyBee said:
Lionel Road as a 2022 venue if we win the rebid??

We couldn't anyway, it has to be a non-European country, USA probably.

beebopalula · 3 Jun 2014

zuko said:
We couldn't anyway, it has to be a non-European country, USA probably.

Australia?

zuko · 3 Jun 2014

beebopalula said:
Australia?

Would certainly be the most interesting choice, especially given that the US, Japan and SK have all had one in the last 20 years. I just assumed USA would get it.

ladbroke · 3 Jun 2014

zuko said:
Would certainly be the most interesting choice, especially given that the US, Japan and SK have all had one in the last 20 years. I just assumed USA would get it.

Technically going by blatters own thinking of giving each continent a chance on rotation (hence Japan/s. Korea, Germany, s. Africa and then Brazil (4 rotating countries).. Australia surely should have been given the chance for 2018.

Stanley · 3 Jun 2014

ladbroke said:
Technically going by blatters own thinking of giving each continent a chance on rotation (hence Japan/s. Korea, Germany, s. Africa and then Brazil (4 rotating countries).. Australia surely should have been given the chance for 2018.

You'd think so but the bookies are already taking bets on a rerun and the Aussies have the longest odds with the USA the shortest at the moment . I don't think Australia is a popular venue amongst FIFA folk, too much travelling between cities. I know Brazil is the same but their special aren't they....

tobymugdo · 3 Jun 2014

FIFA and Blatter make my ****ing blood boil. Disgrace doesn't even come close!

hanworthbee · 4 Jun 2014

I'd personally prefer it to be in Australia but the time difference probably wouldn't suit the tv audience....I don't really want it in the us as they have absolutely no interest in football over there

The Pipe · 4 Jun 2014

hanworthbee said:
I'd personally prefer it to be in Australia but the time difference probably wouldn't suit the tv audience....I don't really want it in the us as they have absolutely no interest in football over there

However I believe ( and no doubt will be corrected if wrong) but the last time it was in the USA their attendance figures were higher than any previous or subsequent competitions

BahrainBee · 4 Jun 2014

The Pipe said:
However I believe ( and no doubt will be corrected if wrong) but the last time it was in the USA their attendance figures were higher than any previous or subsequent competitions

shaun · 4 Jun 2014

tobymugdo said:
FIFA and Blatter make my ****ing blood boil. Disgrace doesn't even come close!

That just about covers my view as well.

Stanley · 4 Jun 2014

The Pipe said:
However I believe ( and no doubt will be corrected if wrong) but the last time it was in the USA their attendance figures were higher than any previous or subsequent competitions

You are correct and women's football as a participation sport is massive as well. Would still prefer the Aussies to get it though.

Aussie Bee · 4 Jun 2014

The Aussies would do a good job and have most of the stadiums already - can't see us getting it though - USA would I reckon - big corporate dollars etc - incentdentlly the Asian cup is being held in the eastern states in jan 2015 - crowd numbers will be interesting for that

RoyBee · 4 Jun 2014

hanworthbee said:
I'd personally prefer it to be in Australia but the time difference probably wouldn't suit the tv audience....I don't really want it in the us as they have absolutely no interest in football over there

Not for me. The World Cup should only go to countries with a decent football history/heritage. USA 94 and that disgrace in 2010 should never be repeated.

Aussie Bee · 4 Jun 2014

Australia has a history - just not a very successful one - football is on the up and up though compared to 10 years ago

Adam · 4 Jun 2014

RoyBee said:
Not for me. The World Cup should only go to countries with a decent football history/heritage. USA 94 and that disgrace in 2010 should never be repeated.

Yeah like that farce when England got it in '66. Had never made it past the quarters or had a team in a European club final before then, disgraceful scenes. Should of gone to Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal or Yugoslavia.

It's that type of attitude in football that sees the likes of Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal etc. scratching each others back and raking in the money. They deserve it because they have history and heritage, not like little old Brentford and their lower league chums, why give them a fighting chance?

The rise of football in the USA has been incredible since 1994. The most historic football nation (arguably) is hosting this year and look what a cock up they have made of it so far; building delays, deaths and rioting!

I think FIFA had the right idea promoting developing football nations, unfortunately the money corrupted them.

SpiderBee · 4 Jun 2014

Knowing Fifa, it will go to Saudi Arabia or the UAE!
Assuming Qatar are ousted (and they should be), and it can't be held in Europe, I would prefer 2022 to be held in the Caribbean Islands.

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