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The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

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The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Our old mate Dyke's idea.I can see why he's proposing it,sort of.Is there a restriction to how many foreign players can currently be in a team?Other wise we'll have a Premiership and Championship league of Johny Kickaballs and their UK players in the basement league.Surely the be big clubs could just have the number of players on their books restricted,then the British players will filter down the leagues to other clubs and get games.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27289819
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

If the English players were good enough they would be getting plenty of playing time with their clubs. The problem is the quality of training at junior level, having 'B' teams at league 2/conference level will have no impact either way on the national team, why would clubs risk talented youngsters being kicked all over Luton/Newport/Braintree etcs pitches?

Sounds like a daft idea that's going nowhere but can be used to justify a load of old gits having jobs where they don't really need to do much :wave:
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Probably not his best idea, although has worked well in Spain who have picked up the odd World Cup and Euro recently !!!!

With the Prem league objecting I doubt it will get any further but at least it is an idea, something the FA is not re known for. With a bit of luck it will at least be discussed and perhaps from it something good will arise
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

The Pipe said:
Probably not his best idea, although has worked well in Spain who have picked up the odd World Cup and Euro recently !!!!

With the Prem league objecting I doubt it will get any further but at least it is an idea, something the FA is not re known for. With a bit of luck it will at least be discussed and perhaps from it something good will arise
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How do we know it's specifically the B team idea that has been the key to Spain's success?
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

I really hope this doesn't ever happen..
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

I'd say they have jumped the gun without sorting the detail... er like promotion/relegation which if its part of the pyramid must be included..
...otherwise its just another standalone U21 league isn't it?

It's all very well Brentford (now a championship side) investing in a B team from their academy but what happens when the 1st team get relegated back to league1? Do they no longer have a B team and is their place is taken by Doncaster who just got promoted back up? So theoretically BFC 1st team are in league 1 and their B team have won the new div and are promoted to league2..

Non-starter IMV.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Another Premier League ruse to mop up all football money.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Awful idea. Worked well in Spain but lower league attendances have been depleted as these fixtures become non-entities.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

B-teams is an idea I don't want to see, would lead to killing the competitiveness that lower league teams have already.

So what, if B teams finish the top 3 slots in League Two, will the teams who finish in 4th and 5th get auto promotion? What will those teams have 'accomplished' exactly? All so that Chelsea youth can test themselves week in week out against League Two standard with no promotion reward at the end.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

This proposal will destroy football in this country once and for all. So I'm sure it will be allowed to happen.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

A very bad idea in my opinion.

It would mean no more loans from Premiership clubs (or very inferior loans). It would encourage Premier teams to hoover up even more youngsters. Chelsea/Man City etc. would dominate whichever leagues they are in.

I think I would not go to see the Bees v's Premier reserves away and knowing the Premiership clubs they would probably demand half the gate money when they are playing at Griffin Park/Lionel Road.

Kick the idea into touch quickly.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Good old Greg, wait until we get to the championship! Fully expect him to suggest those in the Championship or above will remain there forever more! Agent Dyke good work
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

hobbsy said:
How do we know it's specifically the B team idea that has been the key to Spain's success?
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That's what I wondered.

I think our lower league/non league structure is more established than in other countries where they have introduced "B" teams into the league structure. I'm not sure why any club below the Premier League would be in favour of this proposal and rather than strengthen our national team all I can see this doing is potentially strengthen the big premier league sides.

Also how would they decide who could have a "B" side in the football league? Would it just be the top 6 clubs in the Premier League or any Premier League club?

The FA need to impose/encourage/incentivise all clubs to have a minimum of 50% (or more) of their playing staff being English qualified.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

whyteleafebee76 said:
That's what I wondered.

I think our lower league/non league structure is more established than in other countries where they have introduced "B" teams into the league structure. I'm not sure why any club below the Premier League would be in favour of this proposal and rather than strengthen our national team all I can see this doing is potentially strengthen the big premier league sides.

Also how would they decide who could have a "B" side in the football league? Would it just be the top 6 clubs in the Premier League or any Premier League club?

The FA need to impose/encourage/incentivise all clubs to have a minimum of 50% (or more) of their playing staff being English qualified.
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Isn't the Championship the 4th highest supported league in Europe? I can't see how this idea will work in principle and I cannot believe that teams below the Championship will vote in favour of the idea in it's current guise
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

hobbsy said:
How do we know it's specifically the B team idea that has been the key to Spain's success?
Click to expand...
Can't say I'm enthusiastic about this proposal, but Roberto Martinez has addressed the subject previously, and he's probably as well qualified as anyone to comment:
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-clubs-to-fill-the-void-of-England-bling-kids

In particular, I thought this point interesting:
“Everyone speaks about Spain, about how they develop players and they’ll tell you that it has been a programme of 10 to 15 years and so on, said Martinez.
I don’t want to use strong words but that’s rubbish. What they have is a programme that develops men at the age of 18 to 21. That’s what it is and nothing else.
Up to the age of 18 we [England] are the best in the world. They’re too good, but then they become over-protected.
The Under-18s have the same facilities as the first team, the same support team and everything. It’s too much."


As for this being (the) "key" to Spain's success, I'm sure there are additional factors, but never mind their National team success, you only have to look at their clubs' showing in the Champions and Europa Leagues to see they're doing something right.

I think we should be open-minded to new ideas/ideas imported from elsewhere.
 
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The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

"Another option is to merge the B teams with League Two and the Conference to form two regional leagues."

The FA will do anything to stop Luton getting promoted.

What happens in the FA Cup then? You could have a Cup Final with Man United against Man United B, which presumably the FA would think was great for a global TV audience, even thought it would totally devalue the competition.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Ealing Bee said:
Can't say I'm enthusiastic about this proposal, but Roberto Martinez has addressed the subject previously, and he's probably as well qualified as anyone to comment:
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-clubs-to-fill-the-void-of-England-bling-kids

In particular, I thought this point interesting:
“Everyone speaks about Spain, about how they develop players and they’ll tell you that it has been a programme of 10 to 15 years and so on, said Martinez.
I don’t want to use strong words but that’s rubbish. What they have is a programme that develops men at the age of 18 to 21. That’s what it is and nothing else.
Up to the age of 18 we [England] are the best in the world. They’re too good, but then they become over-protected.
The Under-18s have the same facilities as the first team, the same support team and everything. It’s too much."


As for this being (the) "key" to Spain's success, I'm sure there are additional factors, but never mind their National team success, you only have to look at their clubs' showing in the Champions and Europa Leagues to see they're doing something right.

I think we should be open-minded to new ideas/ideas imported from elsewhere.
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We should be open-minded to new ideas.....but not this one and not any idea that could potentially have an adverse impact on lower league football, we of all clubs should appreciate that.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

markyst said:
"Another option is to merge the B teams with League Two and the Conference to form two regional leagues."

The FA will do anything to stop Luton getting promoted.

What happens in the FA Cup then? You could have a Cup Final with Man United against Man United B, which presumably the FA would think was great for a global TV audience, even thought it would totally devalue the competition.
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Most European countries with B teams don't allow them into the cup competitions.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Greg Dyke is an idiot for this latest football brainwave and probably has questions to answer as to what a DG should have known about the sheer level of noncing and child rape that took place at the BBC over the last 40yrs or so.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

whyteleafebee76 said:
We should be open-minded to new ideas.....but not this one and not any idea that could potentially have an adverse impact on lower league football, we of all clubs should appreciate that.
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As I said, I'm "not enthusiastic" about this myself, but I guess the idea must be to see whether we couldn't insert a "Reserve League" somewhere into the lower reaches of the Football League, thereby providing an additional injection of quality and resources etc, without also harming the existing lower League teams too adversely.

A hugely difficult trick to pull off, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least look at it (imo).
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Hideous idea to further devalue traditional English football.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Low End Bee said:
Hideous idea to further devalue traditional English football.
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Possibly apocryphal, but when invited to consider the "Finest traditions of the Royal Navy", Churchill characterised these as: "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash".

One might equally characterise English Football's equivalents as: "Insularity, An Unjustified Sense of Superiority and Hideous Under-Achievement in World Cups..."

Still, England invented the game, and that's all that really counts. ;)
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Its a non-starter

The Football League isnt whats broken, its the FA. The Football League have a strong brand with the Championship in the top 5 attended leagues in Europe and League 1 in the Top 10. The Football League have a lucrative TV deal with Sky. Plus theirs tradition. The 92 would be no more.

Then where will these B teams play. Are you likely to get a genuine strong opposition in crucial games? Will the prima donna B team players really be up to facing the likes of Guy Branston on a wet Tuesday night in March.

I can see the Football League will resist this with passion. Its not their problem the England team is crap.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

I think GD is trying to stimulate discussion more than anything else so fair enough but B teams and English football just don't go. The whole plan jeopardises the sporting integrity of our leagues and pyramid system which is the fundamental strength of our football, can't see it would have any impact on the England team and would simply benefit the big clubs (yet again). Most of these big clubs have as many foreign youngsters as English ones anyway so it would be as much benefit to our national competitors.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Don't like this but this seems very much in line with what Mark Warburton said on the Footballers Football show (and perhaps is also in line with Matthew Benham's views). Not for me though.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Here's an idea, why not introduce a reserve team league on a regional basis and call it something like the Football Combination?

That might work.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

It may or may not surprise you to learn that of the more than 300 'stakeholders' the FA consulted, none were representatives of supporters' organisations such as the Football Supporters Federation or Supporters Direct.

Older readers may remember that one of the justifications given for forming the breakaway Premier League was that it would improve the quality of the England team.

That went well, didn't it?
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

It seems very unfair to slot it between the Conference and League 2. I think placing it within the current footballing pyramid structure could prevent the success of lower league clubs with a whole new load of 'made up' teams pushed in. We'd effectively end up with a league worth of MK Dons.

It would also have implications on the loan system. Had this reserves league been around this season, we would probably have missed out on Saville, Trotta or Judge.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

This sounds like the first page in the book of excuses for Englands failure in the world cup
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

markyst said:
Here's an idea, why not introduce a reserve team league on a regional basis and call it something like the Football Combination?

That might work.
Click to expand...
It worked once upon a time.

Then it stopped working.

Which was why the clubs - not the FA - stopped supporting it.

P.S. Same applies eg to the Maximum Wage, the Home Championships and brown leather footballs with laces.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Ealing Bee said:
It worked once upon a time.

Then it stopped working.

Which was why the clubs - not the FA - stopped supporting it.

P.S. Same applies eg to the Maximum Wage, the Home Championships and brown leather footballs with laces.
Click to expand...

Well actually it stopped working because the Premier League clubs formed their own reserve league and once lower league clubs started disbanding their reserve teams for financial reasons there weren't enough teams to justify continuing the Combination.

The Premier League clubs then disbanded their reserve league for whatever reason and now Dyke is suggesting that they recreate it but make it part of the Pyramid and bung a few Conference clubs in to play for good measure.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Ridiculous idea that I hope never happens
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Can't understand why anyone would think that the whole framework of English football built up over nearly 150 years is worth destroying for the sake of possibly making the England team slightly better.

Greg Dyke will have blood on his hands if this goes through.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

It is, at the vary least, opening up a discussion on the subject, including the idea (used effectively in Italy, for example) of B Teams and the impact of regulation on English player development. None of that can be a bad thing to discuss openly. Calling for protests about our "heritage and culture" is just plain bollox; something has to change.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

jlove said:
It is, at the vary least, opening up a discussion on the subject, including the idea (used effectively in Italy, for example) of B Teams and the impact of regulation on English player development. None of that can be a bad thing to discuss openly. Calling for protests about our "heritage and culture" is just plain bollox; something has to change.
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Why does something have to change? You're basically going to be booting ten clubs out of the FL in the long run just so the England team might be slightly better (but probably won't be).

You're probably thinking about it slightly different as fans of a Championship club than you would be if you were still in League 2.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

The easy option, like always, is to do nothing; but I, for one, would like a strong England team capable of properly challenging for honours. That is never going to happen when only 30 odd per cent of players in the Premier League are qualified to play for England. These ideas might not be perfect as a means for changing that situation, but a discussion needs to start and these proposals are as good a place to start as anywhere. The important thing to press for is that any sacrifices that in the end have to be made are shared, not just loaded on the smaller clubs at the lower end of footballing hierarchy.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

markyst said:
Why does something have to change? You're basically going to be booting ten clubs out of the FL in the long run just so the England team might be slightly better (but probably won't be).

You're probably thinking about it slightly different as fans of a Championship club than you would be if you were still in League 2.
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I meant primarily that something has to change to encourage the development of young English players. You are correct, though, in your other assumption; I think I'd quite like to see Arsenal B in the League somewhere.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

IslandBee said:
The easy option, like always, is to do nothing; but I, for one, would like a strong England team capable of properly challenging for honours. That is never going to happen when only 30 odd per cent of players in the Premier League are qualified to play for England. These ideas might not be perfect as a means for changing that situation, but a discussion needs to start and these proposals are as good a place to start as anywhere. The important thing to press for is that any sacrifices that in the end have to be made are shared, not just loaded on the smaller clubs at the lower end of footballing hierarchy.
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Dyke stated that in 1992 more than 70% of players in the top league were English. We still failed to qualify for USA 94.

This suggests that the problems with English football might lie elsewhere.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

The problem is big clubs with too many players, so why is the solution to harm the integrity of the lower leagues? This will only encourage big clubs to hoover up even more players.

Right problem, wrong solution.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

IslandBee said:
The important thing to press for is that any sacrifices that in the end have to be made are shared, not just loaded on the smaller clubs at the lower end of footballing hierarchy.
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So 20 lower-league clubs could lose their league place and could be forced to go part-time or go out of business.

What equivalent sacrifices might the Premier League clubs make?
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

Listened to Gregg on radio and whilst the numbers he quotes are frightening I am not sure that the creation of a new league is the answer

Disappointed that the " experts" just dismiss it all out if hand as in the words of Gregg " we can do nothing and there will be no change"

Something does need to happen if we want to improve our National team however whilst the Prem has all the dosh nothing will change.

If nothing else we at least have got some ideas out in the open and perhaps in due course a bastardised version of one of them may come to fruition
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

markyst said:
So 20 lower-league clubs could lose their league place and could be forced to go part-time or go out of business.

What equivalent sacrifices might the Premier League clubs make?
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Exactly, I can't think of any cons for the big boys, but plenty for the rest of us
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

The last league restructuring was the formation of the Premier League and was similarly justified on the grounds that it would improve the England team.

That went well didn't it?
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

markyst said:
Why does something have to change? You're basically going to be booting ten clubs out of the FL in the long run just so the England team might be slightly better (but probably won't be).

You're probably thinking about it slightly different as fans of a Championship club than you would be if you were still in League 2.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not - this proposal is appalling and must never be allowed to be implemented.
 

The FA and Football League - Proposals include changes to Divisions

What is Uncle Greg thinking??
 
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