Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

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readingbee

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Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

But not one other club owner is anything as good as ours. Thank goodness for MB!

MB has been brilliant for the club. But I wonder how long he can keep digging into his pockets. There was an interesting piece about Reading last night on South Today. Apparently they may be taken over by a Chinese couple from the Thia group who bought the club from John Madjeski, although there is some doubt as to their credentials apparently. It got me thinking that, if the club needs to move on to and sustain Premiership status. MB may need to look for someone or group to help do that in the next few years as John Madjeski did with Reading.
 
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Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

MB has been brilliant for the club. But I wonder how long he can keep digging into his pockets. There was an interesting piece about Reading last night on South Today. Apparently they may be taken over by a Chinese couple from the Thia group who bought the club from John Madjeski, although there is some doubt as to their credentials apparently. It got me thinking that, if the club needs to move on to and sustain Premiership status. MB may need to look for someone or group to help do that in the next few years as John Madjeski did with Reading.

reading would not be a great example,John Madjeski sold to a russian , the only russian who bought a club but then appeared to have no money , then the thai couple who have backed stam , but really are planning big builds around reading ground and now the chinese are in town. thanks but no thanks
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

They can look on all they want. With a new ground in the offing, our West London location and potential to make someone PL millions, we are probably an attractive investment/gamble. Suspect we will hear more of these reports over the coming years. Weren't Red Bull linked last year?

My view? They can do one. Think that would be it for me and lots more. Keep well clear.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

They can look on all they want. With a new ground in the offing, our West London location and potential to make someone PL millions, we are probably an attractive investment/gamble. Suspect we will hear more of these reports over the coming years. Weren't Red Bull linked last year?

My view? They can do one. Think that would be it for me and lots more. Keep well clear.
My view? If I were Matthew I'd talk to anyone that was serious. If someone offered me £100m for (say) a 40% share in the club then they've just given us £100m for a series of promotion pushes.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

My view? If I were Matthew I'd talk to anyone that was serious. If someone offered me £100m for (say) a 40% share in the club then they've just given us £100m for a series of promotion pushes.


:sorted: Football has got even more expensive than ever, it's unfair and probably unrealistic to expect a one man success story like MB to fund a promotion push on his own these days, good recruitment, a bit of luck and a fair wind will get us so far and maybe produce another PO challenge but that relies on many things going our way whilst taking on fallen giants with huge parachutes coming out of the skies, mid-table Championship is brilliant but I reckon MB and co still want more.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

My view? If I were Matthew I'd talk to anyone that was serious. If someone offered me £100m for (say) a 40% share in the club then they've just given us £100m for a series of promotion pushes.

Totally get why MB would do it from a business point of view. But I'm a supporter and we've all seen how messy this can get at other clubs. It is a slippery slope and some things are more important in my opinion.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Totally get why MB would do it from a business point of view. But I'm a supporter and we've all seen how messy this can get at other clubs. It is a slippery slope and some things are more important in my opinion.

I would class myself as incredibly financially naive when it comes to business, but so long as MB retained a minimum of 51% of the club we wouldn't have much to worry about on that front would we?
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Totally get why MB would do it from a business point of view. But I'm a supporter and we've all seen how messy this can get at other clubs. It is a slippery slope and some things are more important in my opinion.

There are many examples where it has gone well though. Nice are doing ok - 3rd in Ligue 1. Leicester, Bournemouth. I guess you have to trust those in charge of the club that they would seek the right owner and the right deal - we haven't been let down thus far.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I would class myself as incredibly financially naive when it comes to business, but so long as MB retained a minimum of 51% of the club we wouldn't have much to worry about on that front would we?

I can't really see why someone would want to invest as a minority shareholder to be honest.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I would class myself as incredibly financially naive when it comes to business, but so long as MB retained a minimum of 51% of the club we wouldn't have much to worry about on that front would we?

You need to have a minimum of 76% to have full control of a business.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

When you see the amount MB has committed to the club so far you can understand why he might want to bring in some additional investment. Anyway I'm not getting worried because:
1 He knows what he's doing.
2 It was in The Sun
3 They probably meant Bradford or Brentwood..........
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I can't really see why someone would want to invest as a minority shareholder to be honest.

There is a lot of new money in China as you know, we're in London, near Heathrow and most of our local rivals aren't an option due to cost and I reckon a few would just like to spend their wealth in the hope of Premiership kudos for their brand, ego or whatever else takes their fancy.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Whoever might at some point want to become involved I can't see MB going ahead without considerable due diligence. Yes from a financial perspective would be great for him to recoup some or all of his investment. However unlike many owners he is also a fan so any suitor will have to satisfy some pretty demanding questioning.

He has taken us this far and I have every confidence that he wants the legacy to continue, as such he should have all our trust to do what's best for the club
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I have always "believed" it to be the case that MB had (possibly extensive) business interests in Asia and especially China , if there was any truth in such rumours, it is only likely to be with people he knows and trusts/respects and any deal to be in the best long term interests of the club, so it is either good news or (more likely) no news !
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I suspect there is a lot of interest in us from China. As NB says we tick all of the boxes, London based, new stadium 2 years away, huge growth potential, good management etc.

Whether MB would want to muddy the ownership waters prior to the completion of LR remains to be seen.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Basically yes. You are investing in the management of the company and expecting them to give you a return on your investment.

Not many football "investments" provide a return in the conventional sense. Most often the investor just watches his or her money disappear into a black hole.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Just nipped out and had a read of the story. It specifically mentions takeover rather than investment although we of course need to take it with a pinch of salt for the obvious reasons.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

The Sun are reporting that "Chinese Investors" are looking at the club .. The same group that owns Nice .. page 7 in Goals section

Who will be buying most of the flats to be built at LR! :fishing:
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Eh ? Why would that " be it " for you.

Just not for me personally. Would completely transform the club and, having seen these takeovers at other clubs, my fear is it would not be for the better.

If it all about buying our way into the PL with Chinese money, then good for those fans. Just a personal opinion, which I thought the GPG was for?
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Just not for me personally. Would completely transform the club and, having seen these takeovers at other clubs, my fear is it would not be for the better.

If it all about buying our way into the PL with Chinese money, then good for those fans. Just a personal opinion, which I thought the GPG was for?

The way it's gone with others is a good point IMO, should anything happen then my hope would be that MB has played with a straight bat but also not conformed to the "way football is" dinosaur which took him to a place of ridicule via journalists and fans alike but has come out it smelling of roses, I fancy he would get a result that shows others up should he ever take that route of foreign investment.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Just not for me personally. Would completely transform the club and, having seen these takeovers at other clubs, my fear is it would not be for the better.

If it all about buying our way into the PL with Chinese money, then good for those fans. Just a personal opinion, which I thought the GPG was for?

Of course but MB is in control and we have not 1 reason not to trust him ?
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Just nipped out and had a read of the story. It specifically mentions takeover rather than investment although we of course need to take it with a pinch of salt for the obvious reasons.

I don't believe a Sun Sports journalist would know the difference between investment and takeover.

Matthew isn't looking to sell-up and get out. We all know that. However having to fund the stadium (which has taken far longer than any of us expected thereby tying up tens of millions of cash) is no doubt a millstone around investment in the first team. So I can imagine if someone turned up with money then we would talk to them.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I suspect there is a lot of interest in us from China. As NB says we tick all of the boxes, London based, new stadium 2 years away, huge growth potential, good management etc.

Whether MB would want to muddy the ownership waters prior to the completion of LR remains to be seen.
I suspect that there is a lot of Asian interest in Matthew Benham, founder and owner of Smartodds and Matchbook, particularly significant in on-line gaming. The fact that he is one of his own company's customers and he owns two football clubs would not have gone unnoticed.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

My view? If I were Matthew I'd talk to anyone that was serious. If someone offered me £100m for (say) a 40% share in the club then they've just given us £100m for a series of promotion pushes.
Two questions.

1. Do you reckon BFC is worth £250m? (Tiny turnover, consistent loss-maker, huge liability over new stadium, no guarantee of promotion to, or survival in, the EPL?)

2. Do you think an investor would give BFC so as to fund a promotion push, without also guaranteeing himself the payback which goes with it i.e. majority control?

Re the second, if you look eg at the way Kronke (66.6%) is holding off Usmanov (30.1%) at Arsenal, what would be to stop Mr. Benham taking the £100m, using it to get promotion, reaping the rewards for himself (i.e. seeing his club reach the top), whilst denying the investor his rewards (i.e. dividends, profit, control etc)?

If I had to guess, I'd say Mr. Benham feels pretty confident he can get BFC to The Promised Land and gain a foothold there from his own resources.

So that the notion of bringing in a new investor (and eventual owner) need only arise as and when he hoped to take the club to the next level, beyond mere PL survival.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

1 my numbers were illustrative only
2 an increase in the value of shares is a return. No need for eventual majority shareholding. Same as Tesco shares. Plus ostentatious and status reasons as per NB

The rest of your points would be covered by a Shareholders' Agreement

And if I had to guess. I would guess that having put in £90m, funding three or more seasons of sustained pushes for promotion isn't necessarily within MB's resources. Especially when having to finance a stadium build.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Brentford use Smartodds data which Benham owns.
Benham owns Brentford and Midjtland (sp?)

Hope this helps

Nope :tongue:
I understood that. I didn't understand what he was on about with reference to it not going unnoticed.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

1 my numbers were illustrative only
Then why stop at £250m? Why not pluck any figure you liked out of the air?

Anyhow, my point is that in the real world, even if BFC were worth £100m (and I can't see it being anything remotely like that), then 40%/£40m would provide no guarantee whatever of mere promotion, never mind the prospect of viability once you got there.

2 an increase in the value of shares is a return. No need for eventual majority shareholding. Same as Tesco shares. Plus ostentatious and status reasons as per NB
Notwithstanding their recent post-Crash blip, Tesco is an enormous multinational business which has provided huge capital growth (share price) and huge investment revenues (dividends) for decades.

Meanwhile, BFC is a struggling corner shop, which has been losing value and money for decades.

Now granted, Bees have got a hugely talented, successful and wealthy new owner, who's looking to shake up his local High Street, and get the shop back to its former (brief) glory days of nearly a century ago, so as to hold off the Tesco Superstore out the road.

And as fans/insiders, we all know just how good Mr. Benham's chances are of pulling this off. But looked at objectively, we must be as likely to do a Blackpool as a Bournemouth. And more to the point, for someone looking to take a punt on taking a Championship side into the PL, there must be far better bets out there in the form of Forest, Derby, Wolves, Leeds, Sheff Wed etc, than little old Brentford.
 
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Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

1 my numbers were illustrative only
2 an increase in the value of shares is a return. No need for eventual majority shareholding. Same as Tesco shares. Plus ostentatious and status reasons as per NB

The rest of your points would be covered by a Shareholders' Agreement

And if I had to guess. I would guess that having put in £90m, funding three or more seasons of sustained pushes for promotion isn't necessarily within MB's resources. Especially when having to finance a stadium build.


Was that not "suggested" a couple of years ago though?
MB's "plan" within 5/6 years including the stadium, my thoughts and hopes are following "the plan" .
I honestly believe the push will happen next season, that is not a fan hoping, it is a fan sitting back and noticing the build up.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Nope :tongue:
I understood that. I didn't understand what he was on about with reference to it not going unnoticed.

The point was that the Chinese interest in Brentford FC (if there actually is any, it was The Sun, after all) is more likely to be caused by interest in MB, interest in on-line gaming and gambling, then subsequently that he also owns two 'over-performing' football clubs.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Investment by a minority partner makes total sense for us in terms of increasing our war chest and allowing us to compete on a more equal basis. Given the massive stadium build costs it might well be that MB is looking to share some of the load.

The key point is that there are no free lunches. What's in it for the investors. The party mentioned is already running a club and doing a decent job of it. Does he want to do the same here?

Is he simply looking for a financial return linked to the new stadium, apartment sales and possible Premier League income? If so, again, it makes sense.

If he is looking to have a say in how the football side of the club is run then that's when problems are likely to emerge.

There can only be one boss in my view.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Then why stop at £250m? Why not pluck any figure you liked out of the air?

Anyhow, my point is that in the real world, even if BFC were worth £100m (and I can't see it being anything like that), then 40%/£40m would provide no guarantee whatever of mere promotion, never mind the prospect of viability once you got there.

Notwithstanding their recent post-Crash blip, Tesco is an enormous multinational business which has provided huge capital growth (share price) and huge investment revenues (dividends) for decades.

Meanwhile, BFC is a struggling corner shop, which has been losing value and money for decades.

Now granted, Bees have got a hugely talented, successful and wealthy new owner, who's looking to shake up his local High Street, and get the shop back to its former (brief) glory days of nearly a century ago, so as to hold off the Tesco Superstore out the road.

And as fans/insiders, we all know just how good Mr. Benham's chances are of pulling this off. But looked at objectively, we must be as likely to do a Blackpool as a Bournemouth. And more to the point, for someone looking to take a punt on taking a Championship side into the PL, there must be far better bets out there in the form of Forest, Derby, Wolves, Leeds, Sheff Wed etc, than little old Brentford.

If that was the case Tony Fernandes and the Mittal family would never have invested in QPR. Yes they have more recent pedigree and a slightly better stadium etc but hardly a monster of the game.

I think MB will have a huge amount of credibility and Brentford has huge potential to grow its natural revenue from £10M per annum to in excess of £100M per annum with promotion to the PL. And as others have said if you're a new Chinese billionaire then no doubt ego and status also play a huge part over and above the pure financial investment. Let's be honest, why would anyone invest in the majority of football clubs if your only driver was making a financial return on your investment?

I believe we are very much an attractive proposition and would be very surprised if MB, with his Asian connections through his gambling network, has not been approached by a number of interested parties from China and the Far East in general.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Investment by a minority partner makes total sense for us in terms of increasing our war chest and allowing us to compete on a more equal basis. Given the massive stadium build costs it might well be that MB is looking to share some of the load.

The key point is that there are no free lunches. What's in it for the investors. The party mentioned is already running a club and doing a decent job of it. Does he want to do the same here?

Is he simply looking for a financial return linked to the new stadium, apartment sales and possible Premier League income? If so, again, it makes sense.

If he is looking to have a say in how the football side of the club is run then that's when problems are likely to emerge.

There can only be one boss in my view.

If the article is true, and it is the same investment consortium that own Nice, then they are the owners of the biggest hotel chain group in mainland China, and the fifth largest worldwide, along with various other hospitality/media/entertainment businesses around the world.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

If the article is true, and it is the same investment consortium that own Nice, then they are the owners of the biggest hotel chain group in mainland China, and the fifth largest worldwide, along with various other hospitality/media/entertainment businesses around the world.

That would be Jin Jiang then!
Massive company.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

I suspect that there is a lot of Asian interest in Matthew Benham, founder and owner of Smartodds and Matchbook, particularly significant in on-line gaming. The fact that he is one of his own company's customers and he owns two football clubs would not have gone unnoticed.
But isn't that the whole point?

That is, if you were to invest in BFC, you're not investing in a football club, you're investing in Mr. Benham himself. And let's be honest, if you were to take Mr. Benham away from the club, what would you be left with? Little more than a "West London Leyton Orient" - and remember that even before the mad Italian spiv took charge, Orient under Hearn were a mediocre club in the third tier of English football.

I have no doubt that huge gambling and financial institutions round the world would love to "buy" a Matthew Benham for their own companies, if they could. But they also know that an entrepreneur like him will never work for someone else if he can avoid it.

And similarly, they're not going to buy Matchbook or SmartOdds whilst those companies fortunes are so heavily dependant upon one individual. However, as soon as those companies are strong enough to stand on their own two feet without Mr. Benham (possibly already are?), then that's when the really big boys will take an interest (possibly already have?).

But Brentford FC can be nowhere near the stage of maturity of those companies, and realistically might never be.

Meanwhile, any mad billionaire Chinese out there who might otherwise still be prepared to take a punt on Mr. Benham's potential at BFC, will also know that there is a risk on his [MB's] losing his Midas Touch (illness? personal problems?), or losing interest (unlikely, but who knows?), or taking up another hobby (yachting? Formula One?), or falling under a bus etc.

[The usual disclaimers about not wishing/expecting any of those last possibilities transpiring apply]
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

If that was the case Tony Fernandes and the Mittal family would never have invested in QPR. Yes they have more recent pedigree and a slightly better stadium etc but hardly a monster of the game.
When those guys first got involved in QPR, that was a vanity project, involving people who thought they were going to build the next Chelsea etc, but in reality didn't know what they were doing. (Which is why the likes of Briatore and Eccleston baled out early, btw)

The point being that other would-be investors have learned from that fiasco - even if Fernandes hasn't, ha ha.

I think MB will have a huge amount of credibility and Brentford has huge potential to grow its natural revenue from £10M per annum to in excess of £100M per annum with promotion to the PL. And as others have said if you're a new Chinese billionaire then no doubt ego and status also play a huge part over and above the pure financial investment. Let's be honest, why would anyone invest in the majority of football clubs if your only driver was making a financial return on your investment?
As I said above, if you buy into BFC, you're not paying for a football club, you're paying for Mr. Benham, for without him, we'd likely be where Orient are. And risking it all on one man, at least until he has got the club that much further than presently, is too much of a risk.

Meanwhile, even if Mr. Benham might be prepared to accept a degree of outside investment in the club (to fast-forward his plans), I'm sure he is presently wealthy enough to demand that it only be on his own terms (control, direction, reward etc).

Of course, were it a question of going to a higher level than merely reaching, and surviving in, the Prem, then that might (have to) change. But I personally don't see that happening for a good while yet i.e. we must be aiming to become a Bournemouth or a Watford first under Mr. Benham, not a WHU or Southampton under someone else.

Let's be honest, why would anyone invest in the majority of football clubs if your only driver was making a financial return on your investment?
Actually, the majority of clubs in the Prem are now making money. As for the Championship, they're losing massively, but people are still investing either because they can't get into a Prem club, or they can't afford it, but still want to take a punt on getting there. And as punts go, there have got to be better bets in this Division than BFC.

Meanwhile, anything below the Championship is a whole different proposition entirely, with the normal rules of investment and profit & loss etc not applying. Which is why the truly wealthy outside investors continue to stay away from those divisions, leaving it to the spivs, the fan investors, the fantasists and the sorely deluded.

I believe we are very much an attractive proposition and would be very surprised if MB, with his Asian connections through his gambling network, has not been approached by a number of interested parties from China and the Far East in general.
Very likely. But being approached*, and reaching an agreement, are two very different things.


* - More likely expressing a tentative interest
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

When we move into the BCS LR and start to build an average matchday attendance north of 15,000 as well as significant non-match day income then we start to become an investable proposition for wealthy overseas patrons. We would find ourselves roughly on a par with the likes of Ipswich, Reading, QPR and so on. At that point I think it's quite possible that MB might sell some or all of his stake to enable someone with deeper pockets to take us to the next step. (It's at least equally possible he might not of course!).

But, at the minute, I'm not sure we're attractive enough to overseas investors with the sort of financial muscle needed to fund a serious push for the PL. And my instinct is that it would be premature for MB to abandon his project just now.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Ignoring any money from getting to the Premiership (or its subsequent payments) does anyone have any clue about the effect LR has in financial terms at each attendance level.
I know the plan is to get to the Prem but I'm just curious as to the impact on the financials at various attendance levels, whether that be 10k, 12k, 15k, 17k, or 20k.
Would, for example, getting in 15k regularly cut the losses (assuming similar wage budgets) to say £5m, or breakeven, or profit, etc?

I realise it's a very complicated thing to assess/guesstimate - but just wondered if anyone had heard anything that sheds light on the kind of impact the stadium alone (rather than Prem money) makes in financial terms.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Ignoring any money from getting to the Premiership (or its subsequent payments) does anyone have any clue about the effect LR has in financial terms at each attendance level.
I know the plan is to get to the Prem but I'm just curious as to the impact on the financials at various attendance levels, whether that be 10k, 12k, 15k, 17k, or 20k.
Would, for example, getting in 15k regularly cut the losses (assuming similar wage budgets) to say £5m, or breakeven, or profit, etc?

I realise it's a very complicated thing to assess/guesstimate - but just wondered if anyone had heard anything that sheds light on the kind of impact the stadium alone (rather than Prem money) makes in financial terms.

Thought I read a posting by abee a while back that suggested that if we averaged gates of around 15K in BCS/LR costs would still be north of income by about £5 million
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Does anyone know if the Chinese like Rugby?
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

When we move into the BCS LR and start to build an average matchday attendance north of 15,000 as well as significant non-match day income then we start to become an investable proposition for wealthy overseas patrons. We would find ourselves roughly on a par with the likes of Ipswich, Reading, QPR and so on.
LR should indeed take us to where eg QPR, Ipswich and Reading are. And they're still losing money hand-over-fist!

Fact is, even with LR completed and full every game, there is no chance of BFC breaking even AND mounting a serious promotion charge. Therefore it needs Mr. Benham to continue subsidising the club AND being cleverer than the rest for Bees to get promoted.

And if I were an outsider, looking objectively to put my £50-100m into a Championship club, then there are better bets than Brentford, much and all as we Bees fans believe in Mr. Benham.

But, at the minute, I'm not sure we're attractive enough to overseas investors with the sort of financial muscle needed to fund a serious push for the PL.
Quite right (imo).

I think it's quite possible that MB might sell some or all of his stake to enable someone with deeper pockets to take us to the next step... ...my instinct is that it would be premature for MB to abandon his project just now.
Absolutely!

I mean, why would he pull back from the project now it's getting to the really interesting bit?
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Just sat down and read all the posts from yday onwards at one go and have to say thank you for such clarity and education.
 

Potential Chinese Investment into Brentford FC

Thought I read a posting by abee a while back that suggested that if we averaged gates of around 15K in BCS/LR costs would still be north of income by about £5 million

Thanks. If that's correct then that's very positive indeed.
 
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