Correction To Chronicle Bucket Collection Comment

Ace Face · 6 Jun 2003

The Chronicle commented that the
"bucket collections are to stop as they do not send the right message" - THIS IS NOT CORRECT!!
Being the person responsible for purchasing and donating the buckets, helping to count the coins, bag up and banking the money for BU. I can confirm that the bucket collections are NOT to stop next season.

The bucket collections raised a total of £25, 000 - a brilliant achievement - thanks to all.

The bucket collection format will always be reviewed with the objective of increasing the amount raised to help save our club in the short term while Lionel Rd is progressed.

I can assure you that I will not accept any change in the bucket collection format, unless it can be proved that the changes will produce more funds.

I do apologise to any fan if they have been offended by having a bucket waved in front of them - no offense mean`t.

Anyway thanks to you all and especially the New Road ladies in all weathers last season - Julia & Darrell.

Bee H · 6 Jun 2003

And very well done to you and the Bucket Collectors Bish, excellent effort by you all :yes:

Apparently the bucket collections "send out the wrong impression" - hmmm, it sends out the impression that we're skint - but isn't that correct ? :confused:

abee · 6 Jun 2003

Bish. It would save a lot of time mate if perhaps once a week you posted a summary of exactly what is ******* going on at BFC.

Was the "bucket collections sending out a wrong image" a non-story or had indeed it been suggested that the "buckets" be reduced in number or re-sited and if so by whom???

There are so many Brentford Football Club fans who are professionals in their own field, have offered their services on a voluntary basis and surely could add something to the simply appalling ****-ups particularly in the area of public relations. You can only weep can't you. Bees United had months to prepare for taking over the management of BFC. It is all they dreamed about as a first step and it is not as if it were thrust upon them at short notice. A plan of action was in place surely before they agreed to take the reins.

Anyway more power to your elbow and for taking the time to come on here and tell us exactly what is going on.

Now about that Greg Dyke/Bryan Robson business........

'Ayes B · 6 Jun 2003

I always thought that the bucket collections were a BIAS initiative and were part of BIAS aim to raise 25k a season for BU.

Maybe were a rich club now and dont need the money :confused:

I wonder what could be meant by the "wrong sort of message"

Were skint, were in debt up until our eyeballs and havn't even got a sponsor.

Brickie Chap · 6 Jun 2003

Rodgers is yet another tw*t

stedders · 6 Jun 2003

Where does it say this in the Chronicle?
. . . and who says it?

I can't remember BIAS making such a decision.

dan_simmonds · 6 Jun 2003

Those of you that think that these collections are a waste of time :nono:

these collectons are important as they help to preserve the club. Every penny helps as without it we could go into administration and who wants to see that congrats to all who do the job because it is tireless work Well Done!!

JTofBFC · 6 Jun 2003

stedders said:
Where does it say this in the Chronicle?
. . . and who says it?

I can't remember BIAS making such a decision.

Jim Levack says it in his column on page 38. It is not a quote attributed to anyone so I presume only Jim can advise where the information came from.

Bee H · 6 Jun 2003

stedders said:
Where does it say this in the Chronicle?
. . . and who says it?

I can't remember BIAS making such a decision.

"The criticism comes against a backdrop of Bees United bucket collections in the ground being stopped next season because they do not send out the right message."

Ace Face · 6 Jun 2003

In fairness to BU, Jim doesn`t quote anybody, but I am worried that someone told him.

I would love to know who.

I think the PR at BU is awful and I would like to think that one of the BU Board can do nothing but send our PRs and info to fans. To enable this I believe all BU Board members must be on email and read their emails frequently.

Sorry chaps but my nominees to deal with PR are: Edmundo, Markbfc, Sweepy and Ayes BEE with hopefully ABee and BEE H to guide on topics to be communicated.

JimLevack · 6 Jun 2003

Sorry Bish,

Hate to disagree but having a reasonably decent knowledge of PR as I do - having been on the other side of it for 20 years - I think the only way forward for the club is to get a good, hard nosed professional or professionals to handle the PR.
Without decrying the work that Mark Chapman, Sweepy and Co do in their respective fields, the club is now entering a crucial stage where a little bit of strong arm, yet community based, PR is vital.
Many's the time I've had to harrass Gary Hargraves for stories about marketing etc, and he has been amazingly reluctant to talk about new initiatives being run by the club.
I've been going to Brentford for 30 plus years and it's strength has always been that it's a friendly family club...so build on that fantastic attribute.
Every game needs to be turned into an event that the local community can't afford to miss...and importantly whatever is decided on needs to be well publicised in advance.
Football in the community is a case in point - make more of it, shout about it, tell people who don't usually go to games how active the club is in their area.
Use the website, local media and stress that this is a club where the players don't just turn up on a Saturday/Tuesday and do their stuff, but one where they are active all week long through visits to children's hospital wards etc (with pictures etc).
It's pretty basic really, but if the club can make itself an integral part of the community then the community will respond.

.

Ace Face · 6 Jun 2003

Jim - How dare you question me

Who told you the bucket collections were to stop or was it a simple mistake?

IsleofWight_Bee · 6 Jun 2003

You've got the job Jim!

As for Bish's suggestion - no!! If he thinks its bad now what would happen with all these PR people - mixed messages, different agenda's and a toatally confused fan base!!!

malbee62 · 6 Jun 2003

I think whats needed is a link, a liason type person or persons, between Bees United, who after all is the supporters trust, and the ordinary supporters, someone perhaps not connected to the B.U. committe or the BIAS commitee, who could take questions from supporters via either or a website, e-mail facility, p.o. box number, even a telephone number with an answerphone, of course cost of these could be a problem.

Someone independent who Bees United could trust and so could the fans. someone who could give a few hours a week or month of his time to try and put the smile back on everyone's faces and truthfully answer the fans questions and ease the anxiety a bit.

Obviously some questions cant be answered straight away, but even being told that is a step in the right direction.

I haven't sat down and completly thought it out properly, but it would be a great step forward P.R wise as at the moment we haven't any.

This might sound a load of rubbish to everyone, but something needs doing.

abee · 6 Jun 2003

Bish said:
Jim - How dare you question me

Who told you the bucket collections were to stop or was it a simple mistake?

Are you saying that BIAS was never asked to "review" their bucket collection procedure and that the subject of the existing bucket collections has never been discussed between the BU Executive Committee and BIAS. Are you also saying that the question of bucket collections "sending out the wrong message" is not the opinion of certain individuals on the BU Executive Committee???

deg · 7 Jun 2003

I attended a BU fundraising ideas meeting recently when the question of bucket collections came up.

As a bucket collector I had heard a rumour that the collections might not continue and I felt strongly that this method of fund raising was too important to drop. I felt that if we, the bucket collectors, were ready and willing to continue then continue we should.

Twenty five thousand pounds is a great deal of money and until we find easier ways of raising money then bucket collections must continue.

Edmundo · 7 Jun 2003

malbee62 said:
I think whats needed is a link, a liason type person or persons, between Bees United, who after all is the supporters trust, and the ordinary supporters, someone perhaps not connected to the B.U. committe or the BIAS commitee, who could take questions from supporters via either or a website, e-mail facility, p.o. box number, even a telephone number with an answerphone, of course cost of these could be a problem.

malbee62,

website = www.beesunited.org.uk
e-mail = [email protected]
snail mail = Bees United, Griffin Park, Braemar Road, Brentford, Middx, TW8 0NT
telephone number = 0845 166 7222 (local rate).

Hope this helps. Can't see why we need a go-between. Anyone can ask away.

CJC · 7 Jun 2003

Some people may think they are being harassed. Don't know why. Maybe having them less frequently would dispel this but I will do it every home game.

Jim has a good point, perhaps looking for a professional or at people who are successful at other clubs and who we could afford to pay ie some third division marketing/PR guy who has done really well in some northern sh*thole, we can get he/she down here to a bigger club on better money and hopefully get a result.

re: the skills thing if BU could set up a database and people could send in their details and skills if BU wanted some help they could search in this database and call up.

malbee62 · 7 Jun 2003

Edmundo

Reading what most people say about the B.U. website and e-mail ther questions a) dont always get answered b) it takes an age to get answered.

also do everyones questions get shown to other fans.

I take your point about the website, but people on the commitees have other things to do than keep updating things so someone with nothing to do with commitees could devote more time to the fans.

I mean other fans questions are of interest to others, it means the same questions dont keep being asked.

I know you mean well, but there are so many people on this board alone that are not happy with the P.R. and the seemingly secretness of B.U. (which i'm sure is not the case, not enough time etc.) so something better needs to be done.

Thats why i suggested it. Not out of ignorance, as i said you mean well, so thats why i didn't mind you talking down to me as though i am an idiot.

Edmundo · 8 Jun 2003

Sorry, malbee62, I didn't mean to talk down to you - certainly not my intention. I'm quite happy to try to sort out the communications. I know what you've read about the BU website and e-mail, but in our defence (a) every question that we have received has been answered without exception and (b) yes, sometimes it's taken longer than ideal, but really that only applies to one question and that was because my PC had died and I was unable to chase it for a while. Furthermore, the number of questions that have been asked so far can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

The idea was that when we had a sensible number of questions and answers, a Q&A will be put on the BU website, but there really haven't been enough questions to make this very interesting yet. I'll keep plugging the [email protected] email address and hope that in time, the FAQ will be worthwhile.

There is no intention of secrecy in BU, although obviously there are some things that must remain confidential, for commercial or negotiating reasons. The real problem we have encountered is in getting our internal communications working properly, so that I can respond more fully and more quickly here. I have accepted the responsibility in BU for trying to do something about this, but it's early days yet. I hope you will bear with me and that we will see an improvement soon.

malbee62 · 8 Jun 2003

Thanks for that Edmundo.

Perhaps a reason there are not a lot of questions is that a) not enough fans know about the website (fans that sit in New Road for example, dont go past the Griffin) b) some of the older fans, of which there are quite a few, dont have computers, so there must be some way for them to ask.

i use the New Road as an example as my season ticket is there, there's no information put up explaining how to get in touch with B.U. for fans to air there views, and just an e-mail address is not sufficient, for reasons i have explained.

You need to get to these people and the fans that dont come anymore, so any queries they might have can be answered and we can get them back to watching Brentford. That after all is what we must acheive.

I'm not doubting your competence or your enthusiasm, but perhaps it needs more than one of you to run the website.

Lets face it we all have the same dream Brentford in the Champions League Final (please dont laugh, it could happen)

Take care Malbee62

CJC · 8 Jun 2003

Do we still have a club shop over on the New Road? Maybe we could use that as a BU info post/shop or erect a stall that is semi-permanent in some safe space in the New Road. This is a messageboard and as such doesn't lend itself to a Q&A type article. With the greater access to club facilities I think we could do a one or two page article every matchday programme.

Ace Face · 9 Jun 2003

Can I reiterate that BIAS have not been approached about stopping the bucket collections and as a result with your help we will hope to raise another £25k for our supporters trust.

I am sure BU would make official contact with BIAS and follow some simple protocol if such a decision might be considered - I am confident the hardy volunteers are totally against stopping us bucketers.

I have my bucket in hand and am cleaning it for next season.

philip turner · 10 Jun 2003

consensus was at one bees united meeting to stop bucket collections because we didnt want to irritate fans by constantly begging for money.

however at the following bees united meeting - following intervention from the "hardy bucket collectors" - consensus had changed to having bucket collections at every second game or so as a compromise - cos we still DO need the money!

if there is a game where we dont do buckets, the suggestion was that us hardy collectors give out standing order forms and newsletters at the gates.

on the PR subject, i agree the website rarely has any decent info on it anymore - maybe the best solution is a noticeboard outside the club shop which is updated at each home game with a news briefing. then everyone can see it.

we asked the chronicle if we could have a regular "bees united column" which members of the trust were prepared to write but they said no. this would have been a key part of the much-criticised PR strategy but the paper which relies for sales on club news didnt want to take stuff we had written. come on jim help us out!

please dont think that BU are sitting back and not trying though, on saturday committee members brian burgess, stephen callen, john huggins and smiffy superbee were out with myself and rod gower on hounslow high street handing out leaflets and talking to shoppers for several hours, and then more people did the same at another venue later that day. this is going to be a regular event in different locations this summer.

keep coming up with the ideas and we will get there!

Ace Face · 10 Jun 2003

Phil - It is not a BU decision to make in isolation. By all means suggest a proposal to BIAS from the BU Board.
But ultimately the decision should be made by full consultation and through a formal proposal.

Not at any time was BIAS consulted about any plan to stop bucket collection and the idea of "begging" is beyond belief.

Bring on the annual elections.

Message to BU - Do not abuse the activists or you will lose a lot of respect.

Can we put an end to this by simply reaffirming that the bucket collections will continue next season and move on end of thread.

Banana · 10 Jun 2003

Are/were they collectiong for BU or BIAS??? :confused:

Ace Face · 10 Jun 2003

We of course were collecting funds for BU and I am surprised you didn`t know that.

BU cannot ask for support and help from BIAS for fundraising and then make decisions about BIAS organised activities without consultation or any formal contact.

I repeat if you treat people without any respect they will feel taken for granted.

abee · 10 Jun 2003

Bish said:
Can we put an end to this by simply reaffirming that the bucket collections will continue next season and move on end of thread.

But Bish isn't this thread representative of exactly what is wrong with the public relations at the moment at BFC, BU and BIAS.

Still no one is any the wiser.

Philip says quite clearly that there was a consensus within BU to stop the bucket collections. You say that BIAS was never approached. If that was the case why did the "hardy bucket collectors" make representations to Bees United to continue the buckets. Did the bucket collectors who approached BU include you and why should they do that if they were never approached.

You say that life goes on and imply that the buckets will be out at every match; Philip is talking about perhaps every other match.

My understanding was that the bucket monies were collected by and for BIAS and were then paid to Bees United as a donation. If that is the case then BIAS just carries on doing what it has always done and if BU don't like it you tell them to take a flying ****.

Sorted.

Banana · 10 Jun 2003

That's what I thought - the funds are collected for BU. But there's a difference between asking for "support and help" and "organising". If you do the former then surely you are doing the latter! So if BU want to discuss a different arrangement amongst themselves (which seems to have happened in this instance) then why should they have to notify BIAS in advance :confused:

.

In all I'm astounded by the attitude that a "formal proposal" is required to talk about bucket collections....

malbee62 · 10 Jun 2003

Thats a clever thing to say banana, so does that mean that only B.U. there commitee and little inner sanctum are the only ones to have any say in what happens at Brentford, and everyone else's opinion doesn't matter. We might as well start a war now B.U. against BIAS.

Brentford F.C. might as well chuck it in now, we've no chance of surviving with attitudes like that.

Banana · 10 Jun 2003

I think they have the right to talk about it - yes.

Bee H · 10 Jun 2003

malbee62 said:
so does that mean that only B.U. there commitee and little inner sanctum are the only ones to have any say in what happens at Brentford, and everyone else's opinion doesn't matter.

hey abee, does this ring a bell ?

IsleofWight_Bee · 10 Jun 2003

getting pi$$ed off now!

here we go again - this is how wars start :nono:

As I recall this was a BIAS initiative supported by BU and BIAS people - with BISH pretty much to the fore cajoling people to 'do the buckets' before every home game.

We're all on the same side so why don't BIAS and BU sort it out between them...but please not on here - its gone past entertainment value!!

abee · 10 Jun 2003

Bee H said:
hey abee, does this ring a bell ?

rofl rofl rofl

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Ace Face · 10 Jun 2003

BIAS was asked by BU to take a lead on fundraising for BU.

Which BIAS did and last season raised £40k.

One of the schemes which BIAS organised (organised means buying the buckets, banking, logistics, organising consumables, encouraging volunteers etc), was matchday bucket collections raising £25k.

My point is that BU cannot simply say their will be no more bucket collections next season without taliking to the organisers (BIAS) and the foot soldiers. This should involve a formal approach via an email (thats all) so that BIAS can contact all the volunteers and collate a response.
For example my dad raised £650 at the fans match last year by waving a bucket all game, I would like to think he should be asked his views. We are vtalking about asking about 15 volunteers for their views, thats all.

Their may be some bucket collectors who heard through the grapevine of a possible move by BU to stop the bucket collections. But I repeat no views of the BIAS committee as a minimum were sort.

A similar example would be for the BU Board to decide to stop Stripes Music Bar at a board meeting without talking to the gigs volunteers.

BU Annual elections NOW!!

abee · 10 Jun 2003

Bish said:
A similar example would be for the BU Board to decide to stop Stripes Music Bar at a board meeting without talking to the gigs volunteers.

You haven't checked your emails lately obviously Bish!!!

Alternatively see Jim Levacks column in this week Chronny and read all about it. :wave:

Bee H · 10 Jun 2003

French for beginners !

abee said:
rofl rofl rofl

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

ne demi pas mon ami !

Baffled · 10 Jun 2003

Re: French for beginners !

Bee H said:
ne demi pas mon ami !

Do we have to put up with this plethora of french letters?

Bee H · 10 Jun 2003

Baffled said:
Do we have to put up with this plethora of french letters?

c'est tres possible Monsieur Baffled ! :yes:

Nigel Brooks · 10 Jun 2003

OK.. fed up with this.

IF BU want to stop bucket collections, then a clear and unequivocal statement to that regard is all that is needed.
After all communication has always been one of the strongest cards in BU's hand!

Good then, this means that I can get my Saturday afternoons back and enjoy the build-up INSIDE GP rather than stand in Brook Road for ninety minutes before every game (in fairness I did miss 'bucketing' at three games last season).

Doubtless there is an immediately available alternate source of £25,000 that I am not aware of.

Why the hell can't the 'BU Information Ministry' get their bloody act together to confirm or deny things like this and stop potential divisiveness?

As Bish says "it only takes an e-mail".

Streetboy · 10 Jun 2003

philip turner said:
we asked the chronicle if we could have a regular "bees united column" which members of the trust were prepared to write but they said no. this would have been a key part of the much-criticised PR strategy but the paper which relies for sales on club news didnt want to take stuff we had written. come on jim help us out!QUOTE]

Hello, i thought it had gone a bit quiet.
I would be interested to know exactly who you asked mate and exactly what has been sent in and ignored?
I have admitted there was an article or two last season which could have beem more critical of our dearly departed chairman (as Mr aBee helpfully pointed out ), but i do take exception to the insinuation that the paper ignores Bees United.
The trust, of which I am a member and avid supporter, I feel gets plenty of coverage, and not just on the sports desk.
If you ever walk past the office you might also notice a couple of BIAS Lionel Road posters which have been there since the idea was first borne.

Bee H · 11 Jun 2003

How much longer is the deafening silence from the Exec Comm going to go on for ?

:idea:

On the official web-site and in the Chronny :idea:

"There have been postings on the unofficial web-site link concerning the Bucket Collections that took place outside Griffin park before and after match-days last season.

The Exec Comm will be meeting with both Bees Utd and BIAS shortly to discuss whether these should cease or not. Last season incidentally, the collections raised a massive £25,000 for the Club

If you've any thoughts on this, please

1. web-site e-mail bu@brentf...
2. Chronny write, fax or e-mail ......

The result of the discussions will be brought to you as soon as a decision is reached"

Now that wasn't too difficult was it ?

abee · 11 Jun 2003

Bee H said:
How much longer is the deafening silence from the Exec Comm going to go on for ?

Well we can't complain about the Management can we???

There isn't any!!!!!!!

:mad1: :mad1: :mad1:

Edmundo · 11 Jun 2003

I see the broken record pair are still in fine fettle.

abee · 11 Jun 2003

Edmundo said:
I see the broken record pair are still in fine fettle.

Ed, with this one post you have explained exactly what is wrong with Bees United and BFC. If we didn't care we wouldn't post. Do you think I enjoy seeing what a darn awful mess is being made of running BFC by a bunch of amateurs who if they sent in their cv's for a management job wouldn't get to the final cut.

Edmundo · 11 Jun 2003

abee, I think your comment ther is bang out of order. "A darn awful mess"? Come on.

I'm fed up over this storm in a tea-cup, based on misunderstanding and over-reliance on the accuracy of what is printed in newspapers.

The BU committee discussed whether we should ask BIAS to stop the collections. It was a difficult debate as there wasn't a clear consensus. It was decided to talk to BIAS about it and the message back was that stopping the collections was a non-starter. The BU committee is entirely happy about this, but remains concerned about the effect on a small number of charity days that the Club facilitates and which were hit hard last season. The precise way of resolving this minor problem with the bucket collections has not yet been agreed - it's not a matter of urgency as no bucket collections are imminent. But I'm sure it will be. We have also discussed the idea of beefing up the bucket collection scheme by providing facilities for distribution of information, but this idea has not got very far yet.

Does that help? I have hesitated to make this post, as I'm concerned that you'll now dig around to find something else to moan about.

Brickie Chap · 11 Jun 2003

Edmundo said:
I see the broken record pair are still in fine fettle.

The same as you and all the Gibbo brown nosing, which bores the pants off more than just me it seems

abee · 11 Jun 2003

Edmundo said:
I see the broken record pair are still in fine fettle.

Ed , I am still seething about your post which had no smilies and you are a member of the BU committee.

In the past two weeks I have personally offered to :-

1) Repay Rogers loans of £75,000- 100,000 if the only reason that he is still on the BFC board and promoted to chairman is that BFC can't afford to clear his loans. That is if BU would like to see the back of him I will take him out.

2) Offered unlimited financial support to BIAS when they suggested that I finance (not fund) marketing devices, information points and other tools. I was told that it has to go to the BIAS committee and I have emailed them and said buy whatever they need, tell me how much it comes to and I will send a cheque right away.

I am up to here with you and your smart cracks and if your comment that Bee H and I are broken records reflects the views of BU and BIAS then **** *** to the lot of you.

Brickie Chap · 11 Jun 2003

Edmundo said:
abee, I think your comment ther is bang out of order. "A darn awful mess"? Come on.

I'm fed up over this storm in a tea-cup, based on misunderstanding and over-reliance on the accuracy of what is printed in newspapers.

So the hiding of the golf day invoice was a mis-understanding now.

I understand that BU/BFC/BIAS are still paying a consultants 'salary' to The Tea Boy, in heavens name why?

Luton Bee · 11 Jun 2003

abee said:
Do you think I enjoy seeing what a darn awful mess is being made of running BFC by a bunch of amateurs who if they sent in their cv's for a management job wouldn't get to the final cut.

Personally I think that BeeH, BC and yourself rather do enjoy it. After all it's easier to stand outside the tent and pi55 in.......

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View from afar.