Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

stedders

stedders

Moderator
Joined
18 Apr 2000
Messages
4,192
Reaction score
384
Location
Whitton (the Surrey end!)

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Brentford have taken a big step towards leaving Griffin Park after a meeting with the local council. The club agreed that, if they can sell the ground to developers, they will use the money to buy a new site within the London Borough of Hounslow.
The meeting, attended by the leader of the council, John Connelly, and football club owner Ron Noades, was called because of fears that Noades would try to move the club away from its historic roots.
Earlier this year he was refused permission by the Football League to groundshare at Woking.
Now Noades will apply for outline planning permission for the Griffin Park site before trying to sell it.
Brentford have played at the ground since 1904.

© Associated Newspapers Ltd., 09 October 2001
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Was BIAS or anyone else informed about this meeting prior to it happening?
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stedders:
they will use the money to buy a new site within the London Borough of Hounslow.
</font>
Click to expand...

presumably they will use the money left "after clearing the overdraft and loans" - mmm, that'll leave a lot won't it ?

Me thinks the future's a touch bleak personally. As the old saying goes, the worlds our lobster
confused.gif
frown.gif
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

To avaoid any confusion and acrimony perhaps Mr Noades would like to keep us up to date on a few matters?

1. It will be nice to know how much from the sale of GP, if and when it occurs, will be made available for the purchase of a new site?

2. Whether a new site has already been identified?

3. Whether the Council have indicated a willingness to work with BFC to allow a stadium and ancilliary development at this site?

3. Whether the sale of GP will be conditional upon 2. & 3. and the obtaining of Planning Consent for the new site?

4. What comfort the supporters will be given regarding the commitment to a new ground before any move to a temporary ground share arrangement is considered?

5. The potential timescale that is being worked to?

6. Why, if this is an accurate story, it has appeared in the Evening Standard before an authenticated version has appeared on the Club's own web site?

Only looking for some straight answers Ron, do not even need detail. Stop speculation before it starts by being open, frank and honest with us.

Thanks in anticipation.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bee H:
presumably they will use the money left "after clearing the overdraft and loans" - mmm, that'll leave a lot won't it ?

Me thinks the future's a touch bleak personally. As the old saying goes, the worlds our lobster
confused.gif
frown.gif


</font>
Click to expand...

Why do we have to pay the loans off if we sell GP and why can't the overdraft carry over to our new stadium? Just thinking aloud

[This message has been edited by Luke Kirton (edited 09 October 2001).]
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Also what is the site that is to be bought? This can only be Feltham, WIM or Brunel.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

HOW ABOUT AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM BRENTFORD FOOTBALL CLUB AT SOME STAGE PLEASE !
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Some answers now please Ron, where am i going to be spending my future Saturday afternoons?
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

It's on the official site now.

It doesn't tell you much more than the standard article.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bees Bhoy:
It's on the official site now.

It doesn't tell you much more than the standard article.</font>
Click to expand...


Well what did you expect?

Join the rest of us mushrooms, here in the dark feeding on bullsh*t, come to think of it bullsh*t would be better than nothing!!!!!!!!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I don't want to be a mushroom.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I'm sorry but this can not be allowed to happen, if we move out of Griffin Park before a new site is found I have a horrible feeling that then after GP is gone we'll never find another home in Hounslow.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bees Bhoy:
I don't want to be a mushroom.

</font>
Click to expand...

Just a Fun Guy!!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Luke Kirton:
Why do we have to pay the loans off if we sell GP and why can't the overdraft carry over to our new stadium? </font>
Click to expand...

Hasn't Mr Noades said that he's retiring at the end of the season - if so, he'll want to take his guarantees etc., with him together with any monies owed to him ?????????

Bees United - a couple of million in the Bank to start off with no home and little income looking to move in to a £20million pound new stadium complex
confused.gif


My opinion = if we leave GP without a new stadium/site agreed, we're finished

Bit more of a statement please Mr Noades
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Why do i see us playing at Woking next season (if we did i wouldn't be there !)
I like to see this a step forward but i feel Noades is selling us down the river !

No new ground built and No GP still there means ?

where we going to play when we sell GP!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

What the official site actually says is that the club will make an application for outline planning permission on GP for the purposes of obtaining a value of GP to enable the club to make an offer upon a site in the borough (presumably Feltham). It doesn't suggest that GP will be sold before the purchase of a new site is agreed. Planning permission once granted lasts (I might be wrong) 5 years so the club has this time to make the necessary arrangements for the new site. The application for PP was always going to be the first stage of the process.

It would have been comforting if the statement had made clear that GP will only be sold once the arrangements for the new site are completed.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Perhaps I've missed the boat, but I'm a bit confused by the tone of this statement. I was under the impression that the major stumbling block we had was Hounslow's lack of interest in helping the Bees stay in the region. Now they appear to be insisting that we do so. Does this mean they are going to help us in the search? And surely that is good news?

I'm aware of the concerns and the fact that RN's clandestine style means the majority of True Bees cannot trust him because they don't know where we stand with him- but we have agreed that the majority of us are all for relocating. Our future needs safeguarding, by a stable move, within the local area, from one home to another without the nomadic period of Brighton/ Charlton.... But if the council is on our side then today's news may be supportive, and may be a result of the excellent work of BEE POSITIVE.

I wait to be corrected by people who are more involved.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised that what is ostensibly a positive decision by the Council as far as Brentford FC is concerned should be turned round the opposite way by all the paranoia merchants on here.

Before anybody else has a go at either the Council or the club I suggest they re-read "Stedders" long post detailing the content of the speeches at the Fans Stadium Forum.

It is pretty clear from those speeches in particular the one from Bob Reynolds that this is the first and necessary step along the road to getting a new stadium in Hounslow.

Without Griffin Park being designated as able to be developed for residential purposes, it's value is minimal and therefore the whole new stadium is off because we wont have any cash to put into it. The Council have now given the green light to the club to get it valued with planning permission and once everybody knows what it is worth we will have a starting point for looking at other sites.

Nowhere is it intimated that the club will sell or leave GP before a new site is identified or even built. In fact the inference is fairly clear that the Council are stipulating a Section 106 clause in the planning which basically means that the planning permission is only granted on the proviso that the club purchase the land for a new stadium in the borough.

This is surely good news for the club assuming you are not one of the "heads in the sand" types who think we can continue to lose £1m a year remaining in a stadium that has no possible use for 342 days a year.

My personal reservations about the issue are nothing to do with the decision by the Council which is welcome but are that:

a) I personally believe Feltham is not the right place to relocate and

b) I'm not sure it is correct for Ron Noades to be taking such a major and irreversible decision towards the clubs future if he really is leaving at the end of the season. Better to allow the new owners to make that call. (although he may rightly argue that the likelihood of finding a new owner without the move agreed is small)
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Well I liked the bit about Groundsharong with QPR . I have no problem with that!!!
All clubs seems to be able to do it in Italy
it makes sense to me havling our ground costs>...
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

1. Where did this story come from? Theres nothing on the HBC website (www.hounslow.gov.uk - which hasn't been updated for a week), and there doesn't appear to be anything relevant on the BFC website - so is the sub-standard just taking the piss or what?

2. All the paranoid people, please read stedders' report from the Stadium Forum meeting last week - http://gpgrapevine.co.uk/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000305.html#12 Hopefully this will allay most people's fears (some trust might too)

[This message has been edited by Mr T Bee (edited 09 October 2001).]
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Originally posted by Mr T Bee:
1 Hopefully this will allay most people's fears (some trust might too)

Trust has to be earned, or is it that you simply mean blind faith?

Without concrete proposals for a new location, we can posture all we like about moving within Hounslow, but where is a shred of evidence of their support for this?

I am not a Luddite with emotional attachments to GP that colour sound judgement, but the devil is in the detail, and there is little of that (if any) being shared with the customers i.e. you and me.
Click to expand...
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I like most fans am concerned with regards any sale of GP.

But we need to take a step back and start thinking rationally.

The future of BFC depends on a new stadium. The financial case and details are available simply give me a call and I will explain (020 8891 6127), I am too tired to go into chapter and verse.

The first step in developing a new stadium is maximising your assets ie: maximum value for GP.

The club have simply said they are going to attempt to submit a planning application for GP, which will maximise it`s value.

If and when the club plans to sell GP to a developer, we will demand our concerns are addressed and safeguards put in place.

This step by the club is step 1 out of 10, in ensuring our club survives.

For all those who attended the stadium forum and countless other meetings and who understand our desperate need for a new stadium, this will be greeted with careful optimism.

I will continue to work 24/7 to see the club in a LBH 16,000 stadium. But by god it is going to give us all grey hairs.

Finally I call upon the club to act on the vision document I will be sending them this week and give us fans a lift.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mr T Bee:
1. Where did this story come from?</font>
Click to expand...
It's on the official site, Tommy. But I guess the Standard picked it up from a press release.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Oops...
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I think a few of us has upset Mr Noades again!
eek.gif
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

When the ground is sold and Noades ****s off,will the Noades fan club still sing his praises.The man is a **** !!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

After Ronald MacDonalds's early defeat at woking it was only time b4 he came back to spoil the party, and when he retires he would have won......no GP, no new ground and us playing at some nonleague sh1thole......says it all really.

thanks uncle ron - OUR SAVIOUR
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

For those of you who like this kind of thing the following is the wording od section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990.

“Agreements regulating development or use of land.

106.—(1) A local planning authority may enter into an agreement with any person interested in land in their area for the purpose of restricting or regulating the development or use of the land, either permanently or during such period as may be prescribed by the agreement.

(2) Any such agreement may contain such incidental and consequential provisions (including financial ones) as appear to the local planning authority to be necessary or expedient for the purposes of the agreement.

(3) An agreement made under this section with any person interested in land may be enforced by the local planning authority against persons deriving title under that person in respect of that land as if the local planning authority were possessed of adjacent land and as if the agreement had been expressed to be made for the benefit of such land.

(4) Nothing in this section or in any agreement made under it shall be construed—
(a) as restricting the exercise, in relation to land which is the subject of any such agreement, of any powers exercisable by any Minister or authority under this Act so long as those powers are exercised in accordance with the provisions of the development plan, or in accordance with any directions which may have been given by the Secretary of State as to the provisions to be included in such a plan; or
(b) as requiring the exercise of any such powers otherwise than as mentioned in paragraph (a). ”

© HMSO
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

BTW, those of you that read the pages of the Chronicle other than the sports pages will be aware that the LBH have recently been investigating a development in Isleworth where the developer of a residential scheme (Laings I believe) were required by way of a S.106 agreement to provide a new medical centre.

Did they? Did they f**k. They just walked away and put up two fingers. Apparently the agreement they signed was worthless.

I would not dream of suggesting that an agreement between LBH and BFC would be worthless, or that BFC would walk away if it was. However, do not believe that a S.106 Agreement is the panacea that will stop GP being devloped before a commitment to a new ground in LBH is in place. There are ways round everything!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I'm not a planning lawyer but the way I construe s106 is that any agreement has to relate to the land in question, i.e. GP. In other words, the conditions as to development have to relate to that site and not another site elsewhere in the borough. As in your example of the medical centre and one in my borough where a developer is allowed to build flats on a public library site provided they also provide a new library within the site.

Are you surmising that the agreement between BFC and LBH is intended to be a s106 agreement or has that been stated?
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

It is my understanding that a S.106 Agreement relates to the Planning Consent for the land in question, although the benefit does not have to be derived by that actual piece of land. However, I do beleive that it would need to be derived locally.

Basically I believe that what this may mean is that if Planning Consent is given on GP with a S.106 Agreement being required to use any/all of the income derived, then it may well limit a new stadium site to being within the boundary of the LB Hounslow. I'm not a Planner or a lawyer, but assume it would be difficult for Hounslow to acceopt the benefit being gained by another borough? Furthermore, I'm not sure how Hounslow would enforce a S.106 Agreement if BFC went to say Hillingdon? Presumably soem monetary compensation would be sought.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Well I'm sure there must be some mechanism for achieving it one way or the other and it must be the case that LBH are not going to enter into any agreement which doesn't benefit the borough or land within it. I doubt very much whether a breach by the developer would lead to anything other than a damages award, on the grounds that a court will not injunct someone to do something when damages are sufficient. Damages would clearly be sufficient here as they could be utilised by the authority to pay someone else to do what the developer should have.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Now Noades is talking about a ground share with QPR.
Lets just loose all our identity...why not change our name to Brentford Rangers?
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

It is not rocket science, we need to maximise the value of GP to move. The only way to this is to get a consent on it. The best consent would be a high density residential scheme. The plans will drawn up and negotiated with Hounslow prior to submission.

We are talking about 12 months before a consent is in sight.

I do not have an extreme view on RNs tactics. He is damed regardless. If he sells GP now it is as good as corporate suicide. If he maximises the value he is a robber.

If we stay at GP for another 10 or 20 years we will die. We need to move on to a new ground with new facilities. We are in a new millenium. The game has moved on since BFC first kicked a ball at GP. It is a shame but thats life. Every other club in the leagues is looking for a new ground. They appreciate that the clubs have evolved.

Stop the whinging anti Noades stuff that every thread is being turned into on this subject. Lets have some constructive thoughts and maybe BFC can move onwards and upwards.

The only minor point is for Baz, the Laing scheme you are talking about is up by the fire station, they have been in negotiation with a consortium of docs for some 18 months and the docs are the ones p*ssing Laings about.

I don't work for Laings, I have been trying to buy that particular bit of land for another use and Laings won't sell because of the doctors. They haven't stuck their fingers up at anyone except me!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by South Acton Bee:
I think a few of us has upset Mr Noades again!
eek.gif


</font>
Click to expand...

Oh dear, how sad, at least we'll be here (or somewhere) watching the SUPER REDS next season. All I want is vision and committment, this nonsense has gone on for too long and gets in the way of enjoying some of the best football we have played in years.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JBN:
It is not rocket science, we need to maximise the value of GP to move. The only way to this is to get a consent on it. The best consent would be a high density residential scheme. The plans will drawn up and negotiated with Hounslow prior to submission.

We are talking about 12 months before a consent is in sight.

I do not have an extreme view on RNs tactics. He is damed regardless. If he sells GP now it is as good as corporate suicide. If he maximises the value he is a robber.

If we stay at GP for another 10 or 20 years we will die. We need to move on to a new ground with new facilities. We are in a new millenium. The game has moved on since BFC first kicked a ball at GP. It is a shame but thats life. Every other club in the leagues is looking for a new ground. They appreciate that the clubs have evolved.

Stop the whinging anti Noades stuff that every thread is being turned into on this subject. Lets have some constructive thoughts and maybe BFC can move onwards and upwards.

The only minor point is for Baz, the Laing scheme you are talking about is up by the fire station, they have been in negotiation with a consortium of docs for some 18 months and the docs are the ones p*ssing Laings about.

I don't work for Laings, I have been trying to buy that particular bit of land for another use and Laings won't sell because of the doctors. They haven't stuck their fingers up at anyone except me!</font>
Click to expand...
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Just been emailing a Brighton season ticket holder regarding both of our situations. I will use his words not mine:

-a warning for you: Brighton sold the goldstone for £7million with planning
permission for a shopping centre. A year later it changed hands again for
£24million. Get it valued and make sure that Noades doesn't accidentally
find himself (or a stooge) on the board of the developer as part of the deal
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bees Bhoy:
Just been emailing a Brighton season ticket holder regarding both of our situations. I will use his words not mine:

-a warning for you: Brighton sold the goldstone for £7million with planning
permission for a shopping centre. A year later it changed hands again for
£24million. Get it valued and make sure that Noades doesn't accidentally
find himself (or a stooge) on the board of the developer as part of the deal

</font>
Click to expand...

I would love to know the finances behind Tooting & Mitcham United's sale of their ground at Sandy Lane? I believe Altonwood were involved in this
eek.gif
Any ideas??
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

JBN I'm not whinging at Noades regarding the selling of GP, obtaining Planning Consent or moving elsewhere. In fact if you read my posts you would see that I fully endorse that option with a few minor provisos on when we should sell and if necessary ground share. My problem was whether we can trust the words he uses, because this whole situation will need to be delivered with a lot of trust involved on all sides.

On the S.106 issue, I only posted the information because I thought some interest was being shown by others as to precisely what it is all about?

If the Laing's S.106 situation is a straight forward as you suggest, why has there been a top level Members investigation at the Civic Centre, which, if he had not already left, would probably have resulted in the Chief Planning Officer's dismissal? Still no sign of the promised Health/Medical Centre and LBH admit there is nothing they can do to force Laing's to deliver. That is a slightly different situation than Laing's actually delivering, all be it some 2 or 3 years later than they promised!

[This message has been edited by Baz Bee (edited 11 October 2001).]
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I think (as usual) people are missing the point somewhat on this one. We were always going to have to sell GP to fund a new stadium and to do that we need to get planning permission for the site. This needs to be done before we can move on because we're relying mainly on the revenue that the sale will generate and we need to have an idea of what we've got to play with. So nothing new there.

However, up until this press release there was a possibility that we would not get the planning consent we require leaving us right in the sh&t. Unable to sell the ground or develop it satisfactorily. A dead duck.

This press release is the first time the council have shown any concrete interest in the survival of Brentford FC and in keeping the club in the borough. As such this is brilliant news and should be welcomed.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bees Bhoy:
Just been emailing a Brighton season ticket holder regarding both of our situations. I will use his words not mine:

-a warning for you: Brighton sold the goldstone for £7million with planning
permission for a shopping centre. A year later it changed hands again for
£24million. Get it valued and make sure that Noades doesn't accidentally
find himself (or a stooge) on the board of the developer as part of the deal

</font>
Click to expand...

I maybe wrong but I thought there was something built into the article of association that the directors could not profit from the sale...
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mark Chapman:
I maybe wrong but I thought there was something built into the article of association that the directors could not profit from the sale...

</font>
Click to expand...

There was but Archer, and his stooge Bellotti, cunningly had it changed without telling the other directors removing the "offending" piece. It was only thanks to an eagle-eyed Brighton fan, acting Detective, who found this out by scouring Companies House!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

I don't think there is any bar on directors profiting personally from the transactions of the company. They only have to declare an interest at the board meeting which approves the transaction and are generally barred from voting at the same meeting. It's always open to a company to change the articles, anyway. Anyone read the memorandum and articles for BFC?
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

one day, sooner or later, a property development company will get their hands on griffin park.
and they will make a huge amount of money.
i hope i'm wrong, but i've got this nasty feeling that while the developers rake in the profits, we'll be groundsharing and trying to work out how we can afford any kind of stadium with the rapidly shrinking proceeds from selling the ancestral home.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dragonfly:
I don't think there is any bar on directors profiting personally from the transactions of the company. They only have to declare an interest at the board meeting which approves the transaction and are generally barred from voting at the same meeting. It's always open to a company to change the articles, anyway. Anyone read the memorandum and articles for BFC?</font>
Click to expand...

this is my point, I think they have re-drafted for this reason..
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pandora:
Well I liked the bit about Groundsharong with QPR . I have no problem with that!!!
All clubs seems to be able to do it in Italy
it makes sense to me havling our ground costs>...</font>
Click to expand...

i agree with ya there panny
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Roy_loak:
one day, sooner or later, a property development company will get their hands on griffin park.
and they will make a huge amount of money.
i hope i'm wrong, but i've got this nasty feeling that while the developers rake in the profits, we'll be groundsharing and trying to work out how we can afford any kind of stadium with the rapidly shrinking proceeds from selling the ancestral home.

</font>
Click to expand...

RN has said, in his summer interview with beesotted, that whichever developer buys GP, will have to build at least two stands of our new stadium as part of the contract. If you believe him (and I do), this is at least some sort of security against us being left up the creek etc. I do realise that there are ways around this (e.g. agree to build the stands but avoid actually having to do it as no new land can be found), but the idea in principle is there, and at this stage I think this is very positive.
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mr T Bee:
RN has said, in his summer interview with beesotted, that whichever developer buys GP, will have to build at least two stands of our new stadium as part of the contract. If you believe him (and I do), this is at least some sort of security against us being left up the creek etc. I do realise that there are ways around this (e.g. agree to build the stands but avoid actually having to do it as no new land can be found), but the idea in principle is there, and at this stage I think this is very positive.</font>
Click to expand...

I would like to believe that but the reality may be different.

If the land could be subject to offer on the open market. Depending upon what type of Outline Planning Consent is obtained may determine who bids and how much.

It is not unusual for parcels of land such as GP to be attractive to social landlords such as Housing Associations. If they were to offer the highest price for GP then it is extremely doubtful if they would, or indeed be allowed, to enter in to an arrangement to build anything for a third party, i.e. BFC and two new stands. In those circumstances a deision would need to be taken as to whether to accept the highest offer or a lower total overall offer but with two new stands included!!!
 

Evening Standard: Brentford in deal to quit stadium

Bees Bhoy said:
Just been emailing a Brighton season ticket holder regarding both of our situations. I will use his words not mine:

-a warning for you: Brighton sold the goldstone for £7million with planning
permission for a shopping centre. A year later it changed hands again for
£24million. Get it valued and make sure that Noades doesn't accidentally
find himself (or a stooge) on the board of the developer as part of the deal
Click to expand...



We have the S106 relaxed because of ***** like JM and SC, we have the stooge in Rogers...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Back
Top Bottom