Hillsborough 89
Still one of the worst things i can remember seeing,and i cant believe its 20 years ago.And thinking that IF we had beat liverpool in the previous round,that could of been one of us.All spare 1 min silence tommorow :sad: :sad:
Hillsborough 89
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Hillsborough 89
Obviously an awful day but I always think that if Brentford had won the 1/4 final the crush would never have happened at all as we would have not filled 1/2 that stadium surely ?
Hillsborough 89
28,000 was at Wembley for Wigan a few seasons earlier, this team was much much better
love and mercy
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Hillsborough 89
Sheffield is a tad further away than Wembley. I am sure you understand my point
Chorlton Bee
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Hillsborough 89
If by "one of us" you mean an incident in a football ground around that time, I'd agree - I came very close in the away end at White Hart Lane 5th round cup tie against Newcastle two years before. Went with a NUFC supporting mate, there were 12,000 in the Park Lane end, and it was mayhem - pressed up against a barrier, unable to move, feeling my chest tightening.
If by "one of us" you mean, Brentford at Hillsborough in the semi against N Forest in '89, it wouldn't have happened, that game wouldn't be scheduled for Sheffield.
Hillsborough 89
I remember being scared sh*tless in the Stretford End when Man United equalised against Liverpool in 1985 ish. I am surprised that more people didn't get seriously injured or died on occasions such as this before Hillsborough
Hillsborough 89
i was at donnington monsters of rock in '88 when a couple of people died during guns n roses' set. it was rammed. and i kept getting hit by bottles of p*ss.
WarrenBee
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Willo
Formerly known as "The Prophet"
Hillsborough 89
I can remember an almighty crush at QPR v Spurs match in the away end not long after Hillsborough. Also at the Birmingham v Bees game
Alan D
Active member
Hillsborough 89
I also remember travelling on the slowest coach in the world when the Bees played in the 6th. round at Anfield.
The game kicked off before we entered the ground. With all the pushing and shoving, to get in, my feet left the floor for a period of time, before my son and I eventually found a relatively free space to position ourselves.
stevenagebee
Member
Hillsborough 89
That had occured to me too - under the stand before getting out to daylight & the seats. It was scary for a few seconds but its one of those things that maybe we just tolerated and it took Hillsborough (and the other tragedies around then) to make everyone come to their senses.
Hillsborough 89
was that coach 53? as we all missed the build up for the game... gutted:sad:
Jimbee
Who's the dummy?
Hillsborough 89
I was in the standing section in the corner at Anfield; it was as tightly packed as I have ever experienced in that when the teams came out, I couldn't get my arms free to clap and was part of a swaying mass that used to be a common sight on Match of the Day.
The Taylor Report has long been praised for demanding all seater stadia to ensure there is never another Hillsborough. I never understood the relevance of this in relation to what happened that day; if there were thousands of ticketless fans effectively creating a situation that led to the decision to open the gates to ease the crushing outside the ground, I would have thought that had there been fixed seats in place, the outcome would have been far worse.
No matter where the fault lies for what happened that day, the simple fact is that the perimeter fencing was the reason so many people died.
Basically, this bloke has it right 100%:
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6545/
The Taylor Report has long been praised for demanding all seater stadia to ensure there is never another Hillsborough. I never understood the relevance of this in relation to what happened that day; if there were thousands of ticketless fans effectively creating a situation that led to the decision to open the gates to ease the crushing outside the ground, I would have thought that had there been fixed seats in place, the outcome would have been far worse.
No matter where the fault lies for what happened that day, the simple fact is that the perimeter fencing was the reason so many people died.
Basically, this bloke has it right 100%:
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6545/
Duleep Allirajah said:
Phoenixkeeper
The Mighty Phoenix
Hillsborough 89
I can still remember the following weekend when Brentford played at Sheffield United. Went up by coach and the coaches stopped at Hillsborough on the way. Was a very very errie sensation standing just outside the ground looking at all floral tributes and scarves from clubs from all across the country. Was a very quiet journey onwards to Bramall Lane after that.
Also I am sure at the end of the minutes silence at Bramall Lane a low rendition of "You'll Never Walk Alone" was sung by most fans of both clubs.
Also I am sure at the end of the minutes silence at Bramall Lane a low rendition of "You'll Never Walk Alone" was sung by most fans of both clubs.
TW3Bee
Can We Play You Every Week
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Ashford Bees
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Hillsborough 89
Also I am sure at the end of the minutes silence at Bramall Lane a low rendition of "You'll Never Walk Alone" was sung by most fans of both clubs.[/QUOTE]
I also remember the church bells ringing around Sheffield as well.
I also remember the church bells ringing around Sheffield as well.
ChinaBee
The boys are back in town
Hillsborough 89
At the end of the day we just need to remember any football fan that has died in the ground going to watch their team play, Glasgow Rangers (I don't like them), Liverpool, Juventus, Bradford City etc. etc.
:sad::sad::sad:
:sad::sad::sad:
Hillsborough 89
Hillsborough families calling for top-secret documents to be released in their fight for justice:
http://www.liverpoolbanter.co.uk/2009/04/hillsborough-families-reveal-w.html#more
http://www.liverpoolbanter.co.uk/2009/04/hillsborough-families-reveal-w.html#more
jlove
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
It really is about time they let it go. It's tragic that so many lost their lives, at Hillsborough and elsewhere, but it's 20 years FFS. What does "justice" mean? Is there an official that should hang?
The Liverpudlian saccharine-coated mawkishness has overtaken the whole event. It's now part of conspiracy-theory folklore; "top secret documents", so MI5 are in on the act now.
The Liverpudlian saccharine-coated mawkishness has overtaken the whole event. It's now part of conspiracy-theory folklore; "top secret documents", so MI5 are in on the act now.
hanworthbee
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
you cant just let it go, justice would have been someone taken to task for what happened and the person who was in control that day is to blame and the lies he told to cover it up but nothing will ever happen now.
malvernbee
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Hillsborough 89
Another year goes by.....Still remember the news filtering though at H/T against Rovers that there was fatalities. Plus the very poignant stop off en-route to Sheffield Utd the following Saturday. RIP
Hillsborough 89
Sorry, but the way the authorities have dealt with the aftermath and enquiries has been shocking IMO. If one of my family had died that day, I'd want to know that every scrap of evidence had been released and that anyone culpable had been punished. In fact, I do anyway.
What does it matter that it's 20 years ago?
rebus
On my final warning
westwing
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
My Little Mate Joe
Never a week goes by without me thinking of my mate,
Joe McCarthy, who tragically died at Hillsborough aged 21.
He attended Mount Carmel School on Little Ealing Lane W5
and lived in Ealing. He visited my mum every day the week
before the incident as she worked in the library at TVU in South
Ealing and he was catching up on studies before returning to Sheffield Uni.
A big Liverpool fan was Joe, always preferred success to failure,
we would argue because I believed that he should have supported
the local team and not Liverpool.
His death still haunts my family and he will never be forgotton.
I only managed to visit his grave in Greenford Cemetry for the first time
last year on the 20th Anniversary.
If only Brentford had won that FA Cup 1/4 Final, this would not have happened that day.
May all their souls Rest In Peace.
Never a week goes by without me thinking of my mate,
Joe McCarthy, who tragically died at Hillsborough aged 21.
He attended Mount Carmel School on Little Ealing Lane W5
and lived in Ealing. He visited my mum every day the week
before the incident as she worked in the library at TVU in South
Ealing and he was catching up on studies before returning to Sheffield Uni.
A big Liverpool fan was Joe, always preferred success to failure,
we would argue because I believed that he should have supported
the local team and not Liverpool.
His death still haunts my family and he will never be forgotton.
I only managed to visit his grave in Greenford Cemetry for the first time
last year on the 20th Anniversary.
If only Brentford had won that FA Cup 1/4 Final, this would not have happened that day.
May all their souls Rest In Peace.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Hillsborough 89
One thing that really gets me angry about Hillsborough is the way it's taagged with Heysel as an explanation of how bad the English fans were back then. They were both tragic events but a million miles apart in terms of people's actions.
mhead bee
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
Probably not the right thread to bring it up again, but a friend of mine was working on the turnstile that day and his evidence was damning in regard to liverpool fans and the events of the day.
He had worked there on liverpool days dozens of times and always had the same problem, fans showing up with and without tickets 30 seconds before kick off because they did not want leave the pub. The crush was suffocating people outside the ground so the gates were opened to release that pressure.
Whether that was the right decision or not has been debated for two decades, clearly it was not.
The liverpool fans are very aggressive in their fight for justice against the police but have failed to learn from their own mistakes as they piled in to the euro cup final a few years ago without tickets stealing seats from fellow fans who had paid. They need to look at themselves as well rather than trying to point the blame 100% elsewhere.
Heysal was more about crowd violence so probably higher up the scale, but both incidents were brought about by selfish actions and alcahol so they are possibly right to be put in the same catagory of misbehaving fans.
I agree that fans are treated like kids nowadays but at least you can go to any ground in the UK and get in and out quickly and safely without risk to your health.
bonafidebee
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Hillsborough 89
100% agree. It's not the done thing to mention this, but it's a sad truth that had hundreds in Liverpool fans not turned up without tickets, this whole disaster would have been avoided. It wasn't just Hillsborough either. Scousers used to turned up everywhere and force their way into grounds without paying.
Hillsborough 89
Whatever led up to it and whose fault it was or wasn't, I still find it shocking that 44 ambulances turned up at Hillsborough, but the police only allowed 1 on to the pitch.
Some people were still alive at 3:05 and could have been saved if more ambulances had been allowed into the stadium.
Plenty of Forest fans would also turned up drunk 2 minutes before kick-off that day, but despite having much smaller support they were given the bigger terrace, which was another clear error.
Even though there were fans without tickets, there was enough room in the side pens for the extra fans, but the police funnelled them all into the central pen.
Obviously, some Liverpool fans turned up without tickets, but no-one's ever been able to put a figure on it, and turning up a couple of minutes before kick-off after a few pints is not a crime.
Some people were still alive at 3:05 and could have been saved if more ambulances had been allowed into the stadium.
Plenty of Forest fans would also turned up drunk 2 minutes before kick-off that day, but despite having much smaller support they were given the bigger terrace, which was another clear error.
Even though there were fans without tickets, there was enough room in the side pens for the extra fans, but the police funnelled them all into the central pen.
Obviously, some Liverpool fans turned up without tickets, but no-one's ever been able to put a figure on it, and turning up a couple of minutes before kick-off after a few pints is not a crime.
Houghton Bee
Massive Member
Hillsborough 89
an ex-luton steward i work with says liverpool were the same whenever they visited kenilworth road around that time and after, turning up without tickets at 2.55pm then trying to force their way in. sadly the ones with tickets/got in the ground early were the ones to suffer up there. as much as the police are responsible, so are the liverpool who pushed their way in or tried too, and i dont believe for a second that everyone of them trying to force the gates had tickets despite what they may claim.
rebus
On my final warning
Hillsborough 89
Can you supply us with any evidence of this? Kelvin MacKenzie has a lot to answer for.
Hillsborough 89
Can you supply us with any evidence of this? Kelvin MacKenzie has a lot to answer for.
Don't bother, it's the same sh*t year after year. They wouldn't be posting if it happened at the Forest end
westwing
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
I agree, they would climb the fences and charge gates, they did this in France during the world cup.
But always remember, it was the early birds who were killed, the kids at the front who got there early and had tickets. The drunks and late comers killed them IMO.
Paul O'Brien
Active member
Hillsborough 89
Can you supply us with any evidence of this? Kelvin MacKenzie has a lot to answer for.
Good point, rebus. Although what thas been said above is partially true, it's not really accurate. In the Taylor Interim Report (paras 194-210 in particular) (http://www.southyorks.police.uk/sit...ublicinterest/interim report hillsborough.zip) it is clear that there were some people who were drunk, and there were some who arrived without tickets. However, the numbers appear to have been small and at worst can only be said to have exacerbated the situation.
It's also clear that the turnstiles were clearly inadequate, and the capacity of the affected areas had been overstated in comparison to what they were legally allowed to hold, which raises the question why Sheff Wed themselves aren't held more accountable.
Having said all that, I can't help feeling that the families and papers would do well to let matters rest. At present, it doesn't look as though they'll ever get the answer many of the most vociferous people clearly want which, rightly or wrongly, seems to me to be that the Police were entirely to blame.
However, if we look back at Ibrox, Burnden Park, Valley Parade there has never been the non-stop demand for Justice, investigations, reparations and so on in these instances. It is no surprise therefore that those who weren't connected in some way with Hillsborough feel compassion overload.
nick logan
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
The police let everyone through the tunnel into the central pen instead of directing them either side where there was plenty of room. That was no one elses fault.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Hillsborough 89
Whatever anyone wants to believe, my point was that Heysel was the product of full on hooliganism that went wrong, a mob charging Italian fans made up of families, the elderly etc. Hillsborough wasn't.
chippendale
Active member
Hillsborough 89
Just watched a re-run on this. Why the Police haven't been prosecuted I will never know. Sending all those fans into the middle pen was nothing short of manslaughter. They lost total control on that day.
The fans may have been over the top but large numbers had tickets and they were all being sent into the middle pen. The Police could have shut the entrance to the middle pen and funnelled them into the two side pens. The TV clearly showed plenty of room in both side pens.
Even when Grobberler was shouting at them to do something the Police just looked at him. He said that they told him it was up to the person in the control room to order the opening of the gate.
The fans may have been over the top but large numbers had tickets and they were all being sent into the middle pen. The Police could have shut the entrance to the middle pen and funnelled them into the two side pens. The TV clearly showed plenty of room in both side pens.
Even when Grobberler was shouting at them to do something the Police just looked at him. He said that they told him it was up to the person in the control room to order the opening of the gate.
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Chorlton Bee
Active member
Hillsborough 89
Then with the collusion of the despicable Kelvin Mackenzies mob, lied and slandered the dead along, and claimed compo for 'PTSD' and retired on big fat pensions.
nick logan
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
Indeed, utter disgrace.
The police thought it was hooliganism and turned a blind eye to people being crushed to death in front of them.
Hillsborough 89
Exactly. They initially refused to open the pens to let fans who were being crushed to death on to the pitch as they thought it was an attempted pitch invasion.
Then turned away the ambulances as they told them it was just crowd trouble.
If you were a relative of someone who died who could have been saved if it wasn't for some appalling police blunders it doesn't matter if a year, 21 years, or 50 years had passed, you would still want justice for them.
rebus
On my final warning
Hillsborough 89
Agreed. I quote directly from the Taylor report as I did in a similar thread three years ago:
Taylor Report said:
Maggie hated football and she hated scousers. If there was any way of stitching both up she would have done but the Taylor report has shown it was inadequate stadia and crowd control that caused this tragedy, not the ill informed crap I have read on this thread.
nick logan
Well-known member
Chorlton Bee
Active member
Hillsborough 89
Was that V Wolves? the footage is remarkably similar to the disaster. Also writer Kevin Sampson reckons that the only thing that saved his life at Hillsborough was being involved in a crush in the middle pen at the semi final the season before, and ensuring that he and his mates went to the sides.
Hillsborough 89
There is an excellent chapter about your mate Joe McCarthy in Nick Varley's book Parklife. Nick was a mate of his at Sheffield Uni.
RIP
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parklife-Search-Football-Nick-Varley/dp/0718143620
westwing
Well-known member
Hillsborough 89
Thanks for that Mark, never knew that, I will order a copy.
He was football mad and was a decent player too.
cheers
bonafidebee
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Hillsborough 89
Can you supply us with any evidence of this? Kelvin MacKenzie has a lot to answer for.
As do, amongst others, the South Yorkshire police, the football authorities and the ticketless Liverpool fans
I suggest you review the CCTV and television evidence of the crowd outside the Leppings Lane End and then inside it, and match the time line. Look at how full the terrace is and then how many are still trying to get in.
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