Álvaro Fernández (returned to parent club)

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GP200

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But cannot see where next points are going to come. We are in freefall and need some major change - formation, goalkeeper, midfield balance
..............freefall????............beat Villa,beat Vale and lost two league games..............wow..............,
 
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Untouchable

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We are in freefall
Are you sure?

In the 6 game form table, we have taken 6 points.

In the 10 game form table, we have taken 11 points.

Either of these averaged over a season would see us comfortably safe.
 

rebus

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But cannot see where next points are going to come. We are in freefall and need some major change - formation, goalkeeper, midfield balance
We are not in free fall. Don’t overreact. You can’t see where the next points are from because your glass is half full right now.
 

Leonardo

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We are not in free fall. Don’t overreact. You can’t see where the next points are from because your glass is half full right now.
I'm getting deja vu of 92/93 season. Started well and got sucked down into relegation fight which was lost with a whimper
 

Sandybee

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I sh*t my pants every time the opposition have a corner, freekick, get anywhere near the box or when he has the ball at his feet.

He was thrown in at the deep end, has made some fantastic saves but I’d pick Lossl against MUFC.

If Alvaro gets picked for Wednesday, everyone in the ground needs to get behind him 👏🏻🐝
Yeah, we should all get on the goal line behind him!
 

rebus

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I'm getting deja vu of 92/93 season. Started well and got sucked down into relegation fight which was lost with a whimper
We got loads of injuries in the second half of that season and we’ve also got Kenny Samson, Alan Dickens and Ray Biggar to blame for getting getting relegated.

This time around, key players are coming back and we can strengthen where needed. If Bryan’s shot in the second half goes in it’s a completely different match.
 

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I'm getting deja vu of 92/93 season. Started well and got sucked down into relegation fight which was lost with a whimper
f*** me. We were sh*t at Southampton but dont know if you are aware. But Liverpool are a bit good. We won the game before Southampton btw.

United are sh*t, the ground will be rabid and we will beat them 3 one on Wednesday. Job done.

You are massively over reacting.
 
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United are sh*t, the ground will be rabid and we will beat them 3 one on Wednesday. Job done
Nailed on. I actually think Wolves will be harder than United. United have a soft underbelly. Get into them early and they’re toast.
 

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Nailed on. I actually think Wolves will be harder than United. United have a soft underbelly. Get into them early and they’re toast.
Thats what I think the probhlem is the way we are playing now we can't get into them early.

Even the villa game, our opponents are now easily imposing their game onto us and holding us far too depp to pressurise our vulnerable goalie.

We are too passive and not stepping out enough to relieve the pressure. Toney and Mbeumo aren't able to hold onto the ball and we have a phyiscal midfield without a creative spur.
 

AB

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But cannot see where next points are going to come. We are in freefall and need some major change - formation, goalkeeper, midfield balance
Last season towards the end of our long unbeaten run I couldn’t really see where our next defeat would come from. Even conceding early after giving away a needless set piece and big lumps bullying Raya into letting in a soft goal got followed up by us going up a couple of gears and blowing teams away. Then after three defeats in a week to mediocre teams where would our next win come from?

We can beat anyone and we can lose to anyone. On pure relative quality we will lose more often. But when the tactics are right (as they generally have been), the players play well and minimise their errors, we can and have got wins. At 100% fitness and availability we can do as we did early season and be on top. But any missing piece weakens us a lot and we’re still missing a few pieces through injury, fitness and form.
 

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Fernandez isn't a bad keeper, but he is inexperienced at this level and his confidence looks low. His kicking is poor and he isn't commanding of his area. He is, though, quite a good shot stopper, but that's a fundamental skill of being a keeper. Who's heard of a decent keeper who's not very good at shot-stopping?

Why Fernandez is getting a lot of criticism, and why he affects the rest of the team is because of a number of factors.

- He's not a confident keeper who can bark commands at the rest of the defence to organise them. It matters as the keeper is the last line of defence and has the entire pitch in front of him. He needs to spot things and tell the defenders when they are out of position, when to push up, when to pull in a midfielder, etc.
- He's a poor kicker. Ok, we can't expect him to be a Raya, as not many keepers are that good. Raya's passing skills mean that the team has such confidence in him that they have less reason to be on the back foot. But, we might expect him to be able to clear his lines at the right times, and give it some welly to get the ball beyond the halfway line on a consistent basis, with a reasonable level of accuracy, so we can at least battle for the first and second ball. His kicking is not accurate nor consistent, and at this level, opposition defence have a pretty remarkable level of ability to head the ball to their own players, meaning we don't even get the chance to battle for the second ball. This puts us on the back foot again.

These two areas of weakness affects the entire team, although he is not wholly responsible for the whole team playing poorly. He is, though, a key factor as to why we are not playing well. You can take individual mistakes made against Liverpool and blame it on other individuals, but you cannot ignore the impact of the way a keeper influences the entire team too. Just the ability to kick beyond the halfway line on a consistent basis means that the entire team can play 10 yards higher up the pitch, which could make a substantial difference to the way we play. We're simply not getting that from Fernandez.
 

larrysigny

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You don't need to see it, audio only would inform you of his English ability.
OK, let me reword my original query. I didn't see or hear the interview. As a result I didn't know the answer to my question - I got a reply - thanked the replier - end of story. Why try to be clever (with a 'like')?
 

Isleworth_Bee

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f*** me. We were sh*t at Southampton but dont know if you are aware. But Liverpool are a bit good. We won the game before Southampton btw.

United are sh*t, the ground will be rabid and we will beat them 3 one on Wednesday. Job done.

You are massively over reacting.

The ground will be rabid

😂😂😂😂 that’s the best line I’ve read on herein ages.
 

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Thought he kept us in the game first half with a couple of excellent saves and good handling, he seems a safe pair of hands which is always a number one for a keeper. Agree he needs to dominate the box more but I wonder if he is coached to stay on the line and leaving the clearances to the three CB's?
 

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Fernandez isn't a bad keeper, but he is inexperienced at this level and his confidence looks low. His kicking is poor and he isn't commanding of his area. He is, though, quite a good shot stopper, but that's a fundamental skill of being a keeper. Who's heard of a decent keeper who's not very good at shot-stopping?

Why Fernandez is getting a lot of criticism, and why he affects the rest of the team is because of a number of factors.

- He's not a confident keeper who can bark commands at the rest of the defence to organise them. It matters as the keeper is the last line of defence and has the entire pitch in front of him. He needs to spot things and tell the defenders when they are out of position, when to push up, when to pull in a midfielder, etc.
- He's a poor kicker. Ok, we can't expect him to be a Raya, as not many keepers are that good. Raya's passing skills mean that the team has such confidence in him that they have less reason to be on the back foot. But, we might expect him to be able to clear his lines at the right times, and give it some welly to get the ball beyond the halfway line on a consistent basis, with a reasonable level of accuracy, so we can at least battle for the first and second ball. His kicking is not accurate nor consistent, and at this level, opposition defence have a pretty remarkable level of ability to head the ball to their own players, meaning we don't even get the chance to battle for the second ball. This puts us on the back foot again.

These two areas of weakness affects the entire team, although he is not wholly responsible for the whole team playing poorly. He is, though, a key factor as to why we are not playing well. You can take individual mistakes made against Liverpool and blame it on other individuals, but you cannot ignore the impact of the way a keeper influences the entire team too. Just the ability to kick beyond the halfway line on a consistent basis means that the entire team can play 10 yards higher up the pitch, which could make a substantial difference to the way we play. We're simply not getting that from Fernandez.
This is a very good analysis of the problem.

The one thing that I can't work out is when we were scouting the lad we must have identified the strength of his kicking/distribution as a weakness which considering the importance of a sweeper keeper to our style of play must have been a concern. Perhaps it was an area that we thought he could significantly improve upon and I guess we didn't expect him to be thrust into the heat of Premier League football as our No.1.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Thought he kept us in the game first half with a couple of excellent saves and good handling, he seems a safe pair of hands which is always a number one for a keeper. Agree he needs to dominate the box more but I wonder if he is coached to stay on the line and leaving the clearances to the three CB's?
Not too sure Stanley. He pulled off two good one v one saves but every other save I would expect Stuart Nelson to save.
 

Leicester Bee

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Thought he kept us in the game first half with a couple of excellent saves and good handling, he seems a safe pair of hands which is always a number one for a keeper. Agree he needs to dominate the box more but I wonder if he is coached to stay on the line and leaving the clearances to the three CB's?
I can't see any goalkeeping coach ever advising that. You're advising the defence to, basically, sit on the keeper's toes, which is in contrast to the basics of defending, which is to try and create space for the keeper to dominate his area.
 

bees1984

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Fernandez isn't a bad keeper, but he is inexperienced at this level and his confidence looks low. His kicking is poor and he isn't commanding of his area. He is, though, quite a good shot stopper, but that's a fundamental skill of being a keeper. Who's heard of a decent keeper who's not very good at shot-stopping?

Why Fernandez is getting a lot of criticism, and why he affects the rest of the team is because of a number of factors.

- He's not a confident keeper who can bark commands at the rest of the defence to organise them. It matters as the keeper is the last line of defence and has the entire pitch in front of him. He needs to spot things and tell the defenders when they are out of position, when to push up, when to pull in a midfielder, etc.
- He's a poor kicker. Ok, we can't expect him to be a Raya, as not many keepers are that good. Raya's passing skills mean that the team has such confidence in him that they have less reason to be on the back foot. But, we might expect him to be able to clear his lines at the right times, and give it some welly to get the ball beyond the halfway line on a consistent basis, with a reasonable level of accuracy, so we can at least battle for the first and second ball. His kicking is not accurate nor consistent, and at this level, opposition defence have a pretty remarkable level of ability to head the ball to their own players, meaning we don't even get the chance to battle for the second ball. This puts us on the back foot again.

These two areas of weakness affects the entire team, although he is not wholly responsible for the whole team playing poorly. He is, though, a key factor as to why we are not playing well. You can take individual mistakes made against Liverpool and blame it on other individuals, but you cannot ignore the impact of the way a keeper influences the entire team too. Just the ability to kick beyond the halfway line on a consistent basis means that the entire team can play 10 yards higher up the pitch, which could make a substantial difference to the way we play. We're simply not getting that from Fernandez.
I have started to think his kicking is the biggest problem. Early in the season we were winning more long balls due to Raya and this is where there is the biggest deficit when comparing Alvaro with Raya. His long balls are high and loopy and don't go beyond the halfway line therefore defenders have more time to get in position to win the header, which is happening more and more often. If we do win the first header then we are only halfway up the pitch, so if we don't win the second ball the opposition have possession in our own half meaning the pressure on defence is greater. This then becomes a vicious cycle where one is playing into the other.
 

Leicester Bee

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I guess we didn't expect him to be thrust into the heat of Premier League football as our No.1.
I highly doubt it. I do think that he can be coached to be a good keeper, but not at this stage of the season. Remember, we signed him on a one year loan with an option to make permanent.
 

Balders Bee

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I highly doubt it. I do think that he can be coached to be a good keeper, but not at this stage of the season. Remember, we signed him on a one year loan with an option to make permanent.
Yes indeed. I'm just intrigued as to if we identified his distribution as a strength or weakness in our initial Scouting. On the evidence so far you would say quick and agile keeper with good hands, struggles to command area and distribution under pressure is variable.
 

Leicester Bee

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Yes indeed. I'm just intrigued as to if we identified his distribution as a strength or weakness in our initial Scouting. On the evidence so far you would say quick and agile keeper with good hands, struggles to command area and distribution under pressure is variable.
I'd suggest that we might have wanted him on loan as the backup keeper, to coach him to see what improvements he could make before signing him?
As you said, the injury to Raya has meant he's thrust into the first team...
 

Balders Bee

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I have started to think his kicking is the biggest problem. Early in the season we were winning more long balls due to Raya and this is where there is the biggest deficit when comparing Alvaro with Raya. His long balls are high and loopy and don't go beyond the halfway line therefore defenders have more time to get in position to win the header, which is happening more and more often. If we do win the first header then we are only halfway up the pitch, so if we don't win the second ball the opposition have possession in our own half meaning the pressure on defence is greater. This then becomes a vicious cycle where one is playing into the other.
Undoubtedly, the laser like precision of Raya really caused teams some major issues early in the season and you could see them not knowing to press high or not as Raya was capable of bypassing them with a 40-50 yard driven pass to either Mbeumo or Toney. Alvaro definitely doesn't currently have that in his locker.
 

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Yesterday did nothing to convince me nor change my mind on him.

I know others are questioning the defence around him but good defences start with a solid GK you have absolute trust in.

He creates uncertainty, defenders don't play naturally and take a second longer to decide whether they'll play a ball back to him or turn and kick it into touch.

His kicking is shocking, twice yesterday I can remember poor kicks which turned the ball over in our half and they're immediate on the counter 30 yards from our goal.

I can remember him getting gloves on one corner, otherwise he's anchored to his line.

What really did it for me was looking at the difference just before the second half kicked off. Allison filled up his goal and looked big and imposing. Down the other end Alvaro looked tiny in the goal with the Kop behind him.

He's kept 1 clean sheet in 12 games versus David who kept 3 I think in 8. I cannot see the downside in changing things up and having a look at Lossl v Man U.
 

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A bit gutted for him and slightly torn - he has definitely improved since he came in and he stopped us from being seriously embarassed yesterday with some world class saves and without them it could have easily been 5 or 6-0, maybe more. However he just doesn't seem to inspire confidence from our defence at the minute which you could argue contributed to the goals we conceded, and his distribution leaves a lot to be desired.

Could maybe do with a break, if just for the mental recovery time, as he's getting a lot of flak, some fair and some unfair. We might find that Lossl doesn't do any better if it's an issue with our defensive confidence as a whole rather than their trust in the keeper.
 

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While I hate criticising any Bees player, two of his saves yesterday came as a result of his errors. First he flapped badly at the corner where Van Dijk had his shot and then the Jota chance came directly from his goal kick. I'm not saying the defence were faultless in either case, but decent clearances stops either shot from being taken.

Just for the current panic around crosses, free kicks and corners I think we need a change for the ManUre game...

PS - we're not in a relegation battle until the bottom 4 are only 1 win behind us, not 3 wins.
 

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It has been commented a few times about Alvaro's poor communication with the defence. He got throw in 1st team games very quickly because of injury. Does any one know what is his English like ?
 

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A bit gutted for him and slightly torn - he has definitely improved since he came in and he stopped us from being seriously embarassed yesterday with some world class saves and without them it could have easily been 5 or 6-0, maybe more. However he just doesn't seem to inspire confidence from our defence at the minute which you could argue contributed to the goals we conceded, and his distribution leaves a lot to be desired.

Could maybe do with a break, if just for the mental recovery time, as he's getting a lot of flak, some fair and some unfair. We might find that Lossl doesn't do any better if it's an issue with our defensive confidence as a whole rather than their trust in the keeper.

I'm a vocal critic and I do take on board your comments about some of it being quite harsh.

Unless we try Lossl we just won't know either way, and on the basis we've shipped 4 and now 3 and our goal difference has taken a hammering, I don't see what we've got lose in making the change. It seems foolish to persist when we do have the option of changing it up.
 

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Yesterday did nothing to convince me nor change my mind on him.

I know others are questioning the defence around him but good defences start with a solid GK you have absolute trust in.

He creates uncertainty, defenders don't play naturally and take a second longer to decide whether they'll play a ball back to him or turn and kick it into touch.

His kicking is shocking, twice yesterday I can remember poor kicks which turned the ball over in our half and they're immediate on the counter 30 yards from our goal.

I can remember him getting gloves on one corner, otherwise he's anchored to his line.

What really did it for me was looking at the difference just before the second half kicked off. Allison filled up his goal and looked big and imposing. Down the other end Alvaro looked tiny in the goal with the Kop behind him.

He's kept 1 clean sheet in 12 games versus David who kept 3 I think in 8. I cannot see the downside in changing things up and having a look at Lossl v Man U.


He's not smaller, he's just further away! :ROFLMAO:
 

Paul O'Brien

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I can't see any goalkeeping coach ever advising that. You're advising the defence to, basically, sit on the keeper's toes, which is in contrast to the basics of defending, which is to try and create space for the keeper to dominate his area.
Undoubtedly, the laser like precision of Raya really caused teams some major issues early in the season and you could see them not knowing to press high or not as Raya was capable of bypassing them with a 40-50 yard driven pass to either Mbeumo or Toney. Alvaro definitely doesn't currently have that in his locker.
I have to own up here. When I first saw him play, back in October, I commented: "He looked almost indistinguishable from Raya in his distribution, but was even more scary."
 

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It has been commented a few times about Alvaro's poor communication with the defence. He got throw in 1st team games very quickly because of injury. Does any one know what is his English like ?
He understands “it’s all your fault“
 

BFC1997

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The Athletic running with the story that Alvaro is a big problem for us at the moment:

 

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I'm a vocal critic and I do take on board your comments about some of it being quite harsh.

Unless we try Lossl we just won't know either way, and on the basis we've shipped 4 and now 3 and our goal difference has taken a hammering, I don't see what we've got lose in making the change. It seems foolish to persist when we do have the option of changing it up.

Haha I am as well mate don't worry, I agree it's at the point where it's not a knee jerk reaction to give Lossl a shot - imo Frank has a habit of sticking with his selections longer than some would want, rightly or wrongly (e.g. Canos when he came through that bad patch in championship) but the defensive performance yesterday might push him to start Lossl v united
 

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Cardinal sin passing out down the middle, one mistake-goal, at least if the pass is either side and mistake is made there is an opportunity to recover,
he might as well have passed it straight to Minamino, he makes some good reaction saves, but the rest of the time he looks nervous as hell.
Gunnarson not an option now either.
 

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Should never have been dropped. The first goal was embarrassing and he nearly did the same first half. Mixed with that error against Port Vale. I have to question why Lossl was picked.
I’m struggling to see what Lossl could have done about any of the goals
 

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I’m struggling to see what Lossl could have done about any of the goals
He was at fault for the first goal when he should have come out to claim it, I mean he’s big enough.
 

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Let’s take away the goals that I didn’t think were his fault to start with by the way. He looked unbelievably more comfortable than Alvaro on the ball,didn’t stop shouting and sorting out the back line all game. Upgrade on Alvaro.
 

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Should never have been dropped. The first goal was embarrassing and he nearly did the same first half. Mixed with that error against Port Vale. I have to question why Lossl was picked.
Thought he did well and defence looked more confident and settled. Not at fault for any of those goals.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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He was at fault for the first goal when he should have come out to claim it, I mean he’s big enough.
No. You must have been at the stadium. I watched it on TV and there was no error on the keeper's part. If anything, for all the commentators' praise of the quality of Elanga's first touch, I think it was both crap and extremely fortunate.
 

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Really?!

No one could have anticipated that first touch, it was an absolute fluke.
Hey I’m part of the goalkeeping union, I think he hesitated and could have done better. That said right now I probably prefer him to AF
 

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Should never have been dropped. The first goal was embarrassing and he nearly did the same first half. Mixed with that error against Port Vale. I have to question why Lossl was picked.
Not in a month of Sunday’s. Nothing he could do about the first. His kicking and distribution is much better.
 

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Maybe take a routine catch for the first goal.

I know you are not normally a negative guy so can only assume you had a bad angle in the ground.

He had absolutely no chance of anticipating that first touch.
 

detours

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I’m struggling to see what Lossl could have done about any of the goals
First goal looked a bit iffy, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

However if it had been Fernandez in goal you just know there would be 4 pages of micro analysis and freezeframes of his starting position ad nauseum 🙄
 

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Should never have been dropped. The first goal was embarrassing and he nearly did the same first half. Mixed with that error against Port Vale. I have to question why Lossl was picked.
Go to bed.

Poor old Alvaro gets his boat on the cover of the tonight’s programme and is dropped for the game.
 

BFC1997

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Absolutely right call to take Alvaro out of the firing line.

You don’t want to damage his morale by continuing to start him when he’s clearly struggling and you need to have a goalkeeper the rest of the team has faith in.

Hopefully he can build his confidence again in training without the pressure of matches every few days looming over him.
 
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