Alleged Misuse of Footballers' Personal Data

Joined
20 Nov 2004
Messages
22,559
Reaction score
1,317
Location
Whitton
Perhaps he'll celebrate like he's won the FA Cup if he gets a victory!!

:pop:
Are we allowed to share this ‘data’ about how Mr. Slade celebrates?
Do we have to pay him?
 

Nickabee

Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
668
Reaction score
240
Interesting as this may cross over between professional data and personal data. I have always pushed back on giving data where possible and when forced to answer questions on websites I always pick the daftest answer. The footballers data is performance related the same as in other sports. Horse racing is a good example as it would not be able to operate without available data. I don’t think this will go far but in these crazy times ?
 

Inappropriate Smilies Bee

Well-known member
Joined
16 Apr 2003
Messages
15,039
Reaction score
1,133
Location
SE13

BudleighBee

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2020
Messages
196
Reaction score
378
Location
Budleigh Salterton, Devon
How will it affect Smart Odds and therefore the entire financing and business model of the club, if at all? I don't really know enough about this, but this was my first thought. Does anyone have any thoughts?
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
How will it affect Smart Odds and therefore the entire financing and business model of the club, if at all? I don't really know enough about this, but this was my first thought. Does anyone have any thoughts?
It’d absolutely screw it. (Mods can delete my duplicate thread which I got interrupted posting earlier!).

But they’ve missed a trick by taking action here. The interpretations of GDPR and use of publicly available data in eg Germany are much more strict. I’ve had to waste too many hours arguing with German privacy lawyers that we really don’t need the consent of an individual potential hire to use their criminal conviction data from the equivalent of DBS/CRB in making a hiring decision.
 

BFC1997

Active member
Joined
12 Feb 2011
Messages
9,684
Reaction score
2,217
Location
Osterley
These performance stats are collected by people observing football matches that are both physically open to the public and broadcast worldwide. Can’t see how it can be argued that they are private details?

I do agree when it comes to medical data like heart rate etc. that this should be the players choice to share or not but don’t think that sort of thing is sold by firms like Opta anyway?
 

Banana

Very, very seldomly incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
78,731
Reaction score
11,381
Location
London
It’d absolutely screw it. (Mods can delete my duplicate thread which I got interrupted posting earlier!).
They don't have to operate out of the UK.
 

Silly Hat

Purveyor of (mostly) absolute nonsense
Joined
25 Jan 2002
Messages
5,480
Reaction score
4,763
One helpful approach towards all this nonsense would be for all football clubs to say jointly to all footballers that if they want cash for disclosing their height or current location (both covered under Article 4/GDPR) then they can go f*** themselves, and they’re outside any consideration for transfers and signings. That’d get ‘em dropping their position faster than Derby’s descent from Premier League to liquidation (hopefully).
 
Joined
19 Mar 2021
Messages
356
Reaction score
420
Location
Kingston
These performance stats are collected by people observing football matches that are both physically open to the public and broadcast worldwide. Can’t see how it can be argued that they are private details?

I do agree when it comes to medical data like heart rate etc. that this should be the players choice to share or not but don’t think that sort of thing is sold by firms like Opta anyway?
And taking your point about these matches being broadcast, havent the broadcasters already paid for this (image) data ? Even if the broadcast is made by the players own club, could it not be argued that this is covered by the players contracts. And if not covered by (?lower league player) contracts, then increasing use of Utube will surely lead to a term being negotiated into those contracts.
 
Joined
19 Mar 2021
Messages
356
Reaction score
420
Location
Kingston
One helpful approach towards all this nonsense would be for all football clubs to say jointly to all footballers that if they want cash for disclosing their height or current location (both covered under Article 4/GDPR) then they can go f*** themselves, and they’re outside any consideration for transfers and signings. That’d get ‘em dropping their position faster than Derby’s descent from Premier League to liquidation (hopefully).
Rewording your point a slightly different way, this data is clearly highly useful in upwardly progressing players football careers. And as I’m suggesting above, surely an additional data-usage term could be inserted in all future contracts.
 

Silly Hat

Purveyor of (mostly) absolute nonsense
Joined
25 Jan 2002
Messages
5,480
Reaction score
4,763
Rewording your point a slightly different way, this data is clearly highly useful in upwardly progressing players football careers. And as I’m suggesting above, surely an additional data-usage term could be inserted in all future contracts.
Yes, indeed. Spot on. Maybe this is one of those issues that seems so obvious (‘of course it’s ok to share your height and speed, why on earth not?’) that nobody’s ever seen it as an issue until Slade has raised it as if it’s a problem.
 

I'll Bee Damned

Active member
Joined
18 Nov 2006
Messages
1,681
Reaction score
357
Location
Yorkshire
One helpful approach towards all this nonsense would be for all football clubs to say jointly to all footballers that if they want cash for disclosing their height or current location (both covered under Article 4/GDPR) then they can go f*** themselves, and they’re outside any consideration for transfers and signings. That’d get ‘em dropping their position faster than Derby’s descent from Premier League to liquidation (hopefully).
Agreed. I am sure all future contracts (if they haven't already) will include "I consent to the use of my data". They may even be able to change the terms to include one in a an existing contract with all parties' agreement

Edit - Now seen @Raise The Roof has made that point just ahead of me
 

sonofabee

Well-known member
Joined
14 Feb 2003
Messages
47,762
Reaction score
2,069
Location
Walton on Thames
KPI measures would be available to line managers and players would have to approve sharing of their performance stats as part of any contract or they may not qualify for all bonuses.
At the end of the day you can’t manage what you can’t measure ?
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
They don't have to operate out of the UK.
If the interpretation they’re proposing is right it’ll be argued in the EU, in many of whose member states the authorities take a more strict line than here.
 

Banana

Very, very seldomly incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
78,731
Reaction score
11,381
Location
London
If the interpretation they’re proposing is right it’ll be argued in the EU, in many of whose member states the authorities take a more strict line than here.
They don't have to operate from the EU either.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
They don't have to operate from the EU either.
Their customers do though. Unless we’re planning on shifting Brentford to Dubai.
 

Silly Hat

Purveyor of (mostly) absolute nonsense
Joined
25 Jan 2002
Messages
5,480
Reaction score
4,763
They don't have to operate from the EU either.
Off-shore info collection and analysis operation, Congolese Data Inc. On payment of a fee, anyone can log in and view the product on a server hosted in Lubumbashi.

Any issues, call my legal reps and we’ll see you in the High Court in Kinshasa. Did I mention that the Chief Justice is my lawyer’s brother :) And court proceedings can take ten years to be first heard.

Good luck, Mr Slade :) 🇨🇩
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Off-shore info collection and analysis operation, Congolese Data Inc. On payment of a fee, anyone can log in and view the product on a server hosted in Lubumbashi.

Any issues, call my legal reps and we’ll see you in the High Court in Kinshasa. Did I mention that the Chief Justice is my lawyer’s brother :) And court proceedings can take ten years to be first heard.

Good luck, Mr Slade :) 🇨🇩
Just go after the customers in the UK. Whack a 4% of turnover fine on Man City.
 

JANORAK

Active member
Joined
14 Nov 2003
Messages
6,622
Reaction score
967
Location
A goal kick from Harrow Borough FC
I don’t get the emphasis on people’s height? (He says, from a bit less now than his peak 5ft 11 and 3/4ins..)
Doesn’t a bit of trigonometry give anyone’s height, if they stand still?
 

I'll Bee Damned

Active member
Joined
18 Nov 2006
Messages
1,681
Reaction score
357
Location
Yorkshire
It's not clear from the BBC article what Slade's motivation is here? Is it purely an altruistic thing, does he stand to make a cut from the compensation or something else. Perhaps he should be clearer on his motives
 

The Pipe

Active member
Joined
7 Feb 2005
Messages
9,897
Reaction score
1,367
Location
churchinford Devon
I always tried that line at Performance Reviews, usually without success.
Yes I remember, unfortunately for you I did have the relevant data to discuss your performance !!!!

Seem to recall a final comment “ John does his work to his entire satisfaction” 😂😂😂
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds

JANORAK

Active member
Joined
14 Nov 2003
Messages
6,622
Reaction score
967
Location
A goal kick from Harrow Borough FC
Yes I remember, unfortunately for you I did have the relevant data to discuss your performance !!!!

Seem to recall a final comment “ John does his work to his entire satisfaction” 😂😂😂
Probably nicer than being told to “please yourself”, which ended one such I/V with an over-promoted nonentity…
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Is the question who owns the data? If company X counts how many miles players have run, passes completed etc who owns that data, the use?
No. Personal data rights are ultimately the rights of the individual to whom it appertains.
 

Silly Hat

Purveyor of (mostly) absolute nonsense
Joined
25 Jan 2002
Messages
5,480
Reaction score
4,763

josht

Active member
Joined
5 Jun 2005
Messages
2,857
Reaction score
166
Location
Whitechapel
“Russell Slade is a leading influence in the game of football. Russell is a highly experienced manager with a global network in football and across many sports. "The Gaffa" is recognised by leading players in the game“.

😂✊🏻💦
I think that's cause for the case to be thrown out.

Misrepresentation...
 

Paul O'Brien

Active member
Joined
9 May 2001
Messages
5,192
Reaction score
509
Location
Middlesex
If I have a neighbour Mr Jones who lives at no 15 Mafeking Crescent and Mr Bloggs asks me where Jones lives, do I need permission before I can tell Bloggs?
 
Joined
19 Mar 2021
Messages
356
Reaction score
420
Location
Kingston
No. Personal data rights are ultimately the rights of the individual to whom it appertains.
Presumably this would then apply to all sports. And what Performance Data would be defined as Personal Data under GDPR? * Thinking about other sports, all match data on Tennis player serves, all Golfer scorecards (and tee to green stats) would presumably be caught. The solution must be in lining up the league, tournament and player contracts (surely) ?
* Personally I don’t understand how the performance data of players who are being paid to perform publicly, can be in any way treated as personal data. But then I’m probably being oversimplistic.
 

Silly Hat

Purveyor of (mostly) absolute nonsense
Joined
25 Jan 2002
Messages
5,480
Reaction score
4,763
If I have a neighbour Mr Jones who lives at no 15 Mafeking Crescent and Mr Bloggs asks me where Jones lives, do I need permission before I can tell Bloggs?
Technically, I think the answer is ‘yes’, as Mr Jones ‘owns’ the data on where he lives.

Yes - it‘s lulu cray-cray insane clown posse nonsense 😐
 

hillrunner

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2007
Messages
173
Reaction score
12
Location
Valencia, Spain
This is just Slade trying to make a quick buck, as his dinosaur management methods are no longer useful in the modern football world, highly respected in football, highly doubtful, if so wouldn't he still be managing a football league team?
 

Banana

Very, very seldomly incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
78,731
Reaction score
11,381
Location
London
Presumably this would then apply to all sports. And what Performance Data would be defined as Personal Data under GDPR? * Thinking about other sports, all match data on Tennis player serves, all Golfer scorecards (and tee to green stats) would presumably be caught. The solution must be in lining up the league, tournament and player contracts (surely) ?
* Personally I don’t understand how the performance data of players who are being paid to perform publicly, can be in any way treated as personal data. But then I’m probably being oversimplistic.
Andy Murray plays Roger Federer. We cannot publish the score as one of the players considers his performance as private data. I can't see this one standing up in court TBH.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Presumably this would then apply to all sports. And what Performance Data would be defined as Personal Data under GDPR? * Thinking about other sports, all match data on Tennis player serves, all Golfer scorecards (and tee to green stats) would presumably be caught. The solution must be in lining up the league, tournament and player contracts (surely) ?
* Personally I don’t understand how the performance data of players who are being paid to perform publicly, can be in any way treated as personal data. But then I’m probably being oversimplistic.
Personal data is any data about or relating to a person. It’s an immensely broad concept. Centralised contracts don’t solve it in themselves unless between clubs/leagues and the data companies and agreed between players and their clubs. Even then, players would be entitled to ask the stats companies to correct the data they held, to stop holding it or to delete their records completely. Those rights can’t be contracted out of or bought out. It’s a very interesting test case.

Even though the information is derived from public acts/ is voluntarily made public by players participating in matches open to the public, that isn’t an absolute defence (eg just because you can get someone’s birth certificate info from public records and address from the electoral roll doesn’t mean it is fine to use it for identity theft!). The analysis of it has to be the minimum necessary for the legal purposes of processing and clearly the more sophisticated and algorithmic analyses are used for significant decisions.
 

Hudgebadger

Member
Joined
8 May 2005
Messages
620
Reaction score
119
Location
Leek
Would there not be a data clause written into players contracts these days, with the club being able to sell onto third parties?
 

Banana

Very, very seldomly incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
78,731
Reaction score
11,381
Location
London
Would there not be a data clause written into players contracts these days, with the club being able to sell onto third parties?
It's not the club selling data though. It's other parties that they are targeting. I guess Opta et al.
 

RAF_Patto

Active member
Joined
16 Jun 2020
Messages
1,073
Reaction score
1,313
Location
Lincoln
I suspect those players which had their match data used for big money moves will be less bothered about how it was used!
 

ruislip bee

Well-known member
Joined
25 Apr 2009
Messages
23,907
Reaction score
2,828
I always tried that line at Performance Reviews, usually without success.
The Head Masters comment at the end of one of annual school reports was - perhaps he's lazy! It took them 4 years to work that out!
 

Hudgebadger

Member
Joined
8 May 2005
Messages
620
Reaction score
119
Location
Leek
It's not the club selling data though. It's other parties that they are targeting. I guess Opta et al.
Ah ok, or not ok, depending of which side of the fence you’re sitting on then.

Off to do some more reading on this then.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Andy Murray plays Roger Federer. We cannot publish the score as one of the players considers his performance as private data. I can't see this one standing up in court TBH.
No, that would fall within the legitimate interests and performance of contractual obligations legal bases- Murray will have signed a contract with the tournament organisers to participate in the event and things like the score and who won will be obvious parts of that. Performance metrics which are not governed by the rules of the tournament might not be, though a broader range of such data could be contracted for as a condition of participation, along with the extent to which that data can be shared or used. But that doesn’t deal with a spectator unaffiliated to the organisers (eg watching a recording of the match and breaking down all the data they can from the footage).
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,941
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
I suspect those players which had their match data used for big money moves will be less bothered about how it was used!
Although their data will have been more valuable because of it. Players who have been rejected might be less happy.
 
Top Bottom