Alleged Misuse of Footballers' Personal Data

The Pipe

Active member
Joined
7 Feb 2005
Messages
9,897
Reaction score
1,367
Location
churchinford Devon
So yet another person on the money go round, no longer earning the bucks as a lousy football manager so has come up with this idea, Public reason to protect sportsmen, private reason I can make a load of money out of this

No doubt in these times of countless litigation cases this will open a massive can of worms across all sports. Even as arm chair fans we are bombarded with all sorts of information which has been in the public domain but collated by a specific company who now presumably would require the sportsmen’s authority to divulge???

In golf both in Europe and the States the amount of money earned by each player is directly linked to the final tournament and is discussed on TV again would this fall foul of this as income would certainly be classed as private information

Kind of glad that I have considerably less years in front of me as I am not sure I care for what the future looks like
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
So yet another person on the money go round, no longer earning the bucks as a lousy football manager so has come up with this idea, Public reason to protect sportsmen, private reason I can make a load of money out of this

No doubt in these times of countless litigation cases this will open a massive can of worms across all sports. Even as arm chair fans we are bombarded with all sorts of information which has been in the public domain but collated by a specific company who now presumably would require the sportsmen’s authority to divulge???

In golf both in Europe and the States the amount of money earned by each player is directly linked to the final tournament and is discussed on TV again would this fall foul of this as income would certainly be classed as private information

Kind of glad that I have considerably less years in front of me as I am not sure I care for what the future looks like
Tournament prize money isn’t private information and as it is used as part of the competition to qualify for tournaments holding, analysing and discussing the info as part of commentary on the sport would be processing for a legitimate interest. Using that information to send targeted marketing for something wouldn’t be. In fact doing that would almost certainly not just breach UK and EU rules but also the California Consumer Privacy Act.

Doing a screengrab of a golfer’s swing and performing a gait and stance analysis to decide he’s fluking his current form so as to offer him a worse sponsorship deal, conclude he has a disc that’s just about to herniate or to pile on bets that he won’t make the cut next tournament is a much greyer area. It’s not part of the rules of the game. It’s information the use of which may be significantly adverse to his interests.

Luckily this is precisely the sort of thing we can trust will be looked at expertly by the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in the review of data protection law just started…
 

Isleworth_Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
24,002
Reaction score
3,050
Location
Basingstoke
What is happening to this world.

FFS. Slade is ****.
 

badgerbee

Mafeking Avenue........gets you there!!!!
Joined
28 Jan 2008
Messages
17,821
Reaction score
4,121
Location
Langport, Somerset
Get all the doubts around the validity of The Sontaran's (Slade) case, but surely the cost of bringing it would be pretty prohibitive, if he wasn't fairly confident of some sort of success.....??......
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Get all the doubts around the validity of The Sontaran's (Slade) case, but surely the cost of bringing it would be pretty prohibitive, if he wasn't fairly confident of some sort of success.....??......
Letters before action don’t cost much. If he can get a few/all to settle he’s happy. The risks of defeat are bigger for those he’s pursuing.
 

upnorthbee

Active member
Joined
3 Jan 2006
Messages
2,154
Reaction score
1,061
Location
Singapore
My two cents, he's always been a bit of a ****** this guy. Making money in the name of supporting footballers, when that's realistically the last thing he wants to do. I'll celebrate like we've won the cup if this all falls through.
 

SmiffyBee

A Beautiful Lie
Joined
23 Mar 2005
Messages
36,262
Reaction score
1,137
This possible court case could make him the UK's pound shop Bosman !
 

horshambees

Well-known member
Joined
7 Nov 2010
Messages
10,718
Reaction score
1,844
Location
Warnham,West Sussex
“Russell Slade is a leading influence in the game of football. Russell is a highly experienced manager with a global network in football and across many sports. "The Gaffa" is recognised by leading players in the game“.

😂✊🏻💦
Russell Slade = a man whose teams struggled to play football.
Bored the balls of me.
 

horshambees

Well-known member
Joined
7 Nov 2010
Messages
10,718
Reaction score
1,844
Location
Warnham,West Sussex
How many players in that group managed to get moves from the use of their data?
Quite a number made money from it I wager.
Without the data many may not be playing.
Dense woodland springs to mind.
As for Slade (I saw him in Jurassic Park) .
His data would be an Interesting read, but I recommend many other interesting reads before his one.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
How many players in that group managed to get moves from the use of their data?
Quite a number made money from it I wager.
Without the data many may not be playing.
Dense woodland springs to mind.
As for Slade (I saw him in Jurassic Park) .
His data would be an Interesting read, but I recommend many other interesting reads before his one.
Doesn’t really matter under the law. How much value do people get from using social media? By the amount people use it and like how it connects them to folk probably quite a lot. But that doesn’t make it OK for them to sell your data to Russian oligarchs to swing elections with, for instance.
 

FlyBee

Active member
Joined
29 Apr 2007
Messages
6,026
Reaction score
255
I think GDPR is a red herring here.

GDPR would certainly apply to data obtained about a person for example by a lender asking them about their earnings to assess a loan application.

But I don't see how the same logic applies to sport analytics. For example, if I pay to attend 10 football matches, from which I collate stats about Ivan Toney, all of which has been played out in the public domain, surely the information I have is my intellectual capital because I legitimately paid to watch the matches and bothered to collate the stats? Anyone else could have done the same thing (that being a key point), but the intellectual capital is mine as I bothered to write it down.

It's hardly data that requires the protections of GDPR in my opinion.

Slade is just an absolute chancer in this to try and make a few Bob. I hope he wastes a lot of money in the process.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
I think GDPR is a red herring here.

GDPR would certainly apply to data obtained about a person for example by a lender asking them about their earnings to assess a loan application.

But I don't see how the same logic applies to sport analytics. For example, if I pay to attend 10 football matches, from which I collate stats about Ivan Toney, all of which has been played out in the public domain, surely the information I have is my intellectual capital because I legitimately paid to watch the matches and bothered to collate the stats? Anyone else could have done the same thing (that being a key point), but the intellectual capital is mine as I bothered to write it down.

It's hardly data that requires the protections of GDPR in my opinion.

Slade is just an absolute chancer in this to try and make a few Bob. I hope he wastes a lot of money in the process.
No, it is information about the person. If the data was only collated at a team level (eg xG) it’d not be personal. But data which is about the person’s actual activity is linked to them. Otherwise it’d be a useless performance measure for eg recruitment. It’s personal data. It’s a distinct concept from ownership of IP. The issue is whether the processing of it is fair (under the pre-GDPR notion) or has a legal basis (the GDPR restatement of the same concept).

Multiple different people can and do collate player data according to their own criteria and definitions. The question is whether using it infringes the rights of the players as data subjects. Some uses might - if a player was seeking a move to a club and that club liked him from having watched him play, but then read an analytic report which called that view into doubt, that player would have clearly suffered a detriment as a result of that processing of data about him. If the data was incorrect, should he not have the right to rectify it (inaccurate height data is the example cleverly being used by Slade in the media)? Should he not have the right to access the files with his data on it to check what was held?
 

FlyBee

Active member
Joined
29 Apr 2007
Messages
6,026
Reaction score
255
No, it is information about the person. If the data was only collated at a team level (eg xG) it’d not be personal. But data which is about the person’s actual activity is linked to them. Otherwise it’d be a useless performance measure for eg recruitment. It’s personal data. It’s a distinct concept from ownership of IP. The issue is whether the processing of it is fair (under the pre-GDPR notion) or has a legal basis (the GDPR restatement of the same concept).

Multiple different people can and do collate player data according to their own criteria and definitions. The question is whether using it infringes the rights of the players as data subjects. Some uses might - if a player was seeking a move to a club and that club liked him from having watched him play, but then read an analytic report which called that view into doubt, that player would have clearly suffered a detriment as a result of that processing of data about him. If the data was incorrect, should he not have the right to rectify it (inaccurate height data is the example cleverly being used by Slade in the media)? Should he not have the right to access the files with his data on it to check what was held?
Yep, all good points. But I think the context of what is being used and what it is being used for is very important in this specific scenario.

Arguably the industry itself relies on this data. Football scouting has been around forever. That feels like a pretty strong case for legitimate use although not necessarily right in the eyes of the law I suppose.

There is also no transaction, or exchange of data with an organisation such as there would be in my loan example when the data is collated. However I guess there is at the point that data is sold to third parties and it is relied upon.

In any event, I'm not convinced the protections GDPR is intended to provide will apply to the extent RS is hoping for. For example yes, you might be on the hook for ensuring data used or sold is accurate, but you don't need consent to collate it.
 

Gee Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2001
Messages
23,157
Reaction score
552
Location
Rayleigh
Yep, all good points. But I think the context of what is being used and what it is being used for is very important in this specific scenario.

Arguably the industry itself relies on this data. Football scouting has been around forever. That feels like a pretty strong case for legitimate use although not necessarily right in the eyes of the law I suppose.

There is also no transaction, or exchange of data with an organisation such as there would be in my loan example when the data is collated. However I guess there is at the point that data is sold to third parties and it is relied upon.

In any event, I'm not convinced the protections GDPR is intended to provide will apply to the extent RS is hoping for. For example yes, you might be on the hook for ensuring data used or sold is accurate, but you don't need consent to collate it.
When tv do a player analysis are they not then breaching GDPR as they’ve sold this data to their subscribers to watch?
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Yep, all good points. But I think the context of what is being used and what it is being used for is very important in this specific scenario.

Arguably the industry itself relies on this data. Football scouting has been around forever. That feels like a pretty strong case for legitimate use although not necessarily right in the eyes of the law I suppose.

There is also no transaction, or exchange of data with an organisation such as there would be in my loan example when the data is collated. However I guess there is at the point that data is sold to third parties and it is relied upon.

In any event, I'm not convinced the protections GDPR is intended to provide will apply to the extent RS is hoping for. For example yes, you might be on the hook for ensuring data used or sold is accurate, but you don't need consent to collate it.
Just holding data is counted as processing. Consent is not the only legal basis for processing (in fact good practice is to consider it only as the last resort if you can’t fit into one of the other legal bases).

Article 6(f) is the one to look at and the scouting example is a good starting point here to build a defence.

“processing is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate interests pursued by the controller or by a third party, except where such interests are overridden by the interests or fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject which require protection of personal data, in particular where the data subject is a child.”

The legitimate interests part is certainly arguable as scouting of players is a central part of football as a competitive professional sport. But is the data being collected excessive for the carrying out of those legitimate interests or does its analysis and use infringe players interests and rights?
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Can I take action against my Line Manager for using my personal performance data in my performance reviews?

You should have a data privacy clause in your employment contract and your employer’s HR department should also have a fair processing notice which states what data is held, the purposes for which it is used and the legal basis for that (legitimate interests and performance of contract most likely). You can do a subject access request (SAR) to get hold of the full file if you don’t get that disclosed to you anyway. It is very common for workers facing disciplinary/dismissal to put in a SAR.
 

vcmazz

Well-known member
Joined
20 Apr 2009
Messages
18,035
Reaction score
2,630
Location
Isle of Red & Wight
Couple of points I've made on a lesser website. Slade claims that players don't receive payment for use of this data. Those who have ultimately received payment via Premier League contracts resulting from such data may beg to differ?

Also, in 1947, Blackpool signed Stanley Matthews. They knew he had scored 51 goals in 259 appearances for Stoke. They knew he was a sh*t hot winger who would beat defenders time and time again. They knew his height, his weight, his injury record - they even knew his age ffs! Kick Blackpool out of the league. Data thieving bastards. :mad:
 

hitchinb

Active member
Joined
13 Feb 2006
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
228
Location
Hitchin
Solutions:
1) Players get a small recompense for use of data pertaining to them
2) Contract include data use clause.
At the end of the day, if the data use ends up with players getting transfers then they and their agents will not want to kill the golden goose - unless they are poor prospects who want to hide the fact they are slow, fat and crap.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Solutions:
1) Players get a small recompense for use of data pertaining to them
2) Contract include data use clause.
At the end of the day, if the data use ends up with players getting transfers then they and their agents will not want to kill the golden goose - unless they are poor prospects who want to hide the fact they are slow, fat and crap.
So everyone collecting data on players has to contract with every player and pay them? Are you Russell Slade in disguise?
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
18,323
Reaction score
2,584
Location
KT3 New Malden
You should have a data privacy clause in your employment contract and your employer’s HR department should also have a fair processing notice which states what data is held, the purposes for which it is used and the legal basis for that (legitimate interests and performance of contract most likely). You can do a subject access request (SAR) to get hold of the full file if you don’t get that disclosed to you anyway. It is very common for workers facing disciplinary/dismissal to put in a SAR.
No don't! As some poor IT worker has to go and find all the data.... ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: AB

Brentford Bob

Well-known member
Joined
5 Apr 2000
Messages
11,074
Reaction score
607
Location
Chandlers Ford, Hants.
I’d have thought it was fairly easy to get round when a young player signs his first pro contract. Just needs a tick box confirming that he allows performance data to be collated and possibly sold on, otherwise he risks not being discovered by a forward thinking premier league club and missing out on fifty grand a week over three years.

No brainer.
 

Banana

Very, very seldomly incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
78,731
Reaction score
11,381
Location
London
I’d have thought it was fairly easy to get round when a young player signs his first pro contract. Just needs a tick box confirming that he allows performance data to be collated and possibly sold on, otherwise he risks not being discovered by a forward thinking premier league club and missing out on fifty grand a week over three years.

No brainer.
Can I collect data on the young player without asking him though (or his club)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AB

hitchinb

Active member
Joined
13 Feb 2006
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
228
Location
Hitchin
So everyone collecting data on players has to contract with every player and pay them? Are you Russell Slade in disguise?
No, they'd get a 'royalty' from commercial firms making use of their data - Playstation, bookmakers etc. If you want a model, there's the ALCS which pays out to authors for use of their work by libraries and academic institutions etc.
But if you read my second option - the one most likely to occur IMO - players and agents will realise the marketing value of having the data out there is much greater than a notional payment.
 

teesbee

Active member
Joined
16 Nov 2006
Messages
4,387
Reaction score
467
Location
Back in London
It would be fascinating to know what Matthew and Rasmus think about this, especially bearing in mind RA's involvement with Tonsser, where young players are effectively promoting themselves with their own stats.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
I’d have thought it was fairly easy to get round when a young player signs his first pro contract. Just needs a tick box confirming that he allows performance data to be collated and possibly sold on, otherwise he risks not being discovered by a forward thinking premier league club and missing out on fifty grand a week over three years.

No brainer.
Making it a condition of his contract would make it invalid as consent. The purposes of onward sale would need to be set out.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
It would be fascinating to know what Matthew and Rasmus think about this, especially bearing in mind RA's involvement with Tonsser, where young players are effectively promoting themselves with their own stats.
That’s a set up where the players are consciously and intentionally sharing data with an intent to have it seen and used by clubs subscribing to Tonsser.

Think of it like Tinder. You sign up and share personal info with the intent that it will be seen by other subscribers. That doesn’t mean they can publish the messages and dick pics you send more broadly.

The Slade case (at its highest) is more like going to nightclubs and taking the cctv pictures of folk dancing and recording their chat up lines to create dating profiles for them and pitching these to single folk.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
No, they'd get a 'royalty' from commercial firms making use of their data - Playstation, bookmakers etc. If you want a model, there's the ALCS which pays out to authors for use of their work by libraries and academic institutions etc.
But if you read my second option - the one most likely to occur IMO - players and agents will realise the marketing value of having the data out there is much greater than a notional payment.
That’s not how this area of the law works. Rights to personal data are not pure economic rights.
 

Nickabee

Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
668
Reaction score
240
The use of data is confusing for example the amount of yards a player covers is performance related but other data is personal say weight - an club that
may be put of a player that piles on the pounds every time they have a break from training and takes weeks to get ’match fit’.
On a personal note I have wondered why supermarkets keep offering my deals on pet food and insurance as I for a short time was buying cat food for somebody else but when I go the store there are signs up with warnings and product recalls , ie chocking hazard for children , when surely they should be able to contact most people who brought the product directly to inform them using the data they have. What data should or not be available on all of us ,including players , and to whom needs to be clarified
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
The use of data is confusing for example the amount of yards a player covers is performance related but other data is personal say weight - an club that
may be put of a player that piles on the pounds every time they have a break from training and takes weeks to get ’match fit’.
On a personal note I have wondered why supermarkets keep offering my deals on pet food and insurance as I for a short time was buying cat food for somebody else but when I go the store there are signs up with warnings and product recalls , ie chocking hazard for children , when surely they should be able to contact most people who brought the product directly to inform them using the data they have. What data should or not be available on all of us ,including players , and to whom needs to be clarified
If the performance data is linked to the person it becomes personal data. So aggregated and anonymised data about how far players in a team or a league run without linking it to individual players’ profiles would not be.

Supermarkets could and do track what their loyalty card holders buy. But they might not track it to the level of the batch numbers of product actually bought so while they know you bought chicken kitekat last Friday in Feltham, they don’t know which batch the particular can was from. They could just contact every kitekat buyer over a date range (and do where there’s a serious risk). But not everyone uses a loyalty card so they need to notify others.
 

teesbee

Active member
Joined
16 Nov 2006
Messages
4,387
Reaction score
467
Location
Back in London
That’s a set up where the players are consciously and intentionally sharing data with an intent to have it seen and used by clubs subscribing to Tonsser.

Think of it like Tinder. You sign up and share personal info with the intent that it will be seen by other subscribers. That doesn’t mean they can publish the messages and dick pics you send more broadly.

The Slade case (at its highest) is more like going to nightclubs and taking the cctv pictures of folk dancing and recording their chat up lines to create dating profiles for them and pitching these to single folk.
Yes, I understand that. I'm just wondering if Matthew and Ras saw this coming and have invested/got involved in Tonsser because they recognise that owning something where the data owners are willing contributors is the future.

I've dealt with personal data rights in the past with regards to imagery. Frankly, it's a pain in the neck and just ends up being a moneymaker for some that don't deserve it, an additional expense for others who can't afford it, and of course, a generator of more work and especially paperwork, oh and that brings us back to lawyers again. No offence @AB .
 
  • Like
Reactions: AB

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
14,296
Reaction score
4,942
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Yes, I understand that. I'm just wondering if Matthew and Ras saw this coming and have invested/got involved in Tonsser because they recognise that owning something where the data owners are willing contributors is the future.

I've dealt with personal data rights in the past with regards to imagery. Frankly, it's a pain in the neck and just ends up being a moneymaker for some that don't deserve it, an additional expense for others who can't afford it, and of course, a generator of more work and especially paperwork, oh and that brings us back to lawyers again. No offence @AB .
No offence taken. My privacy work has been for businesses trying to resist spurious claims and getting their compliance policies and procedures tight enough (and practical enough for the poor sods in IT to implement) to avoid carpetbagging like Slade’s.
 

A Real Mysteron

Active member
Joined
13 Apr 2009
Messages
9,109
Reaction score
2,657
You should have a data privacy clause in your employment contract and your employer’s HR department should also have a fair processing notice which states what data is held, the purposes for which it is used and the legal basis for that (legitimate interests and performance of contract most likely). You can do a subject access request (SAR) to get hold of the full file if you don’t get that disclosed to you anyway. It is very common for workers facing disciplinary/dismissal to put in a SAR.
Should I take that as a no?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AB
Top Bottom