General American Transfer Market (1 Viewer)

[BFC1997]

With the changes coming in 2021 post Brexit, we know it is now harder to sign players based in the EU/EEA.

However, for those playing regular first team football for their club and that are part of their international setup (even at youth level) we should have a good chance at getting them a work permit. And this is even if they are outside the EU. This means new markets are now potentially open to us.

In particular, I’m interested in the American market. Whilst most of the best US-born players already play abroad, the MLS itself is full of players in the 18-23 ages category playing regular first team football and are youth/full internationals for the likes of Ecuador, Uruguay, Argentina, Venezuela, Colombia, Mexico etc. (as well as USA/Canada). Lots of talent there we previously had no access to, and we can offer them a ticket into the PL. There’s the obvious lack of language barrier too for players US-based.

I wonder if/hope the club will be expanding scouting activities for this region. Our usual hunting ground for new stars (youth internationals from Ligue 2, Eredivisie, 2. Liga, Denmark, Belgium) will surely become more competitive markets now.

 

[Holysmit]

The MLS is w***.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

The MLS is ****.

Quality input

 

[BFC1997]

The MLS is ****.

I think the quality is incredibly varied in the MLS. The money is definitely there. Some of the new expansion teams in particular, the likes of LAFC and Atlanta United have very good setups and some good young players.

 

[Banana]

Lots of talent there we previously had no access to,

Eh?

 

[BFC1997]

Eh?

My understanding is that we previously could only sign non-Europeans if they were full internationals e.g Mokotjo.

Under the new rules youth internationals from outside the EEA who are playing regular first team football may also now be eligible for work permits.

 

[Banana]

My understanding is that we previously could only sign non-Europeans if they were full internationals e.g Mokotjo.

Under the new rules youth internationals from outside the EEA who are playing regular first team football may also now be eligible for work permits.

Are you sure?

 

[BFC1997]

Are you sure?

That is my interpretation - I think the level being played at does play a part e.g plucking players from the Bulgarian 3rd tier will be difficult even if they are youth internationals. But Argentina U23 internationals playing regularly in the MLS could be good candidates for a work permit.

 

[Banana]

That is my interpretation

It's incorrect. Until next week we can sign players from all over the world who are not internationals subject to criteria. And then there's an exception process via which over half of non-EEA players currently join via.

 

[BFC1997]

It's incorrect. Until next week we can sign players from all over the world who are not internationals subject to criteria. And then there's an exception process.

“Subject to criteria” - Don’t know what these are then. They must be fairly stringent as to my knowledge we’ve never signed any non-Europeans that are not full internationals.

Agains, having read the new rules, this will now be possible provided they are first team regulars at a decent level and youth internationals.

 

[Banana]

“Subject to criteria” - Don’t know what these are then. They must be fairly stringent as to my knowledge we’ve never signed any non-Europeans that are not full internationals.

Just because we haven't, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

The new rules aren't providing "new opportunities", those pathways have always been there. You do NOT have to be an International to play football in the PL or EFL.

 

[Mr Cynical]

“Subject to criteria” - Don’t know what these are then. They must be fairly stringent as to my knowledge we’ve never signed any non-Europeans that are not full internationals.

Agains, having read the new rules, this will now be possible provided they are first team regulars at a decent level and youth internationals.

Lachlan Brook?

 

[BFC1997]

Just because we haven't, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

The new rules aren't providing "new opportunities", those pathways have always been there. You do NOT have to be an International to play football in the PL or EFL.

Ok, so if your point is that we have always been able to sign these players then it’s still worth discussing as it is now not any easier to sign players from the EEA.

 

[jlove]

My understanding is that we previously could only sign non-Europeans if they were full internationals e.g Mokotjo.

Under the new rules youth internationals from outside the EEA who are playing regular first team football may also now be eligible for work permits.

Mokotjo had a Dutch passport by the time we signed him.

 

[Ealing Bee]

Aiui, it is now harder to sign players from the EU/EEA than before, but signing players from elsewhere (eg USA) is essentially unchanged.

That is, they all need a Work Permit, which is granted subject to certain criteria. Re the latter, generally speaking, HMG doesn't want clubs filling their squads with overseas players at the expense of UK players, solely because they (overseas) are cheap. Rather they have to be of superior quality for the money than their UK counterparts.

Therefore a player with eg 50 caps for Mongolia won't get one, whereas someone with 10 Brazil caps should. The transfer fee payable should also give a clue. That is, if a club is paying eg £250k for a player when their normal spend is £2.5m, that rings alarm bells, Similarly with wages: if a player from overseas is offered £2k per week, when the squad average is £10k per week, that too would likely put the kiobosh on it.

As against that, HMG pays regard to a club/league's circumstances. For example, Man City might not get a permit for a player that eg Brentford might. And Brentford might be denied a permit for a player who could sign for eg Rochdale. By the same principle, a Scottish club can sometimes sign a player an English club cannot, because Scotland regularly loses its best players to England, so need to replenish them from somewhere.

Meanwhile, even if a given player satisfies the normal criteria to be given a permit, it seems likely that at the instigation of the FA, who want to protect England-qualified players, HMG will restrict the total number of work permit players a club may sign at any one time.

 

[Hullbee]

When Bradley Wright Philips is considered one of the greatest the MLS has ever seen I have no interest in players from American

 

[psg150]

This topic gets me so riled. I think, pretty much that even for youth internationals, tier 3 leagues are pretty much as far down as we can go. I thought youth international rules apply completely separately to that. Still, what a stupid position to be placed in.

 

[Holysmit]

Quality input

Similar to the MLS!

 

[TadB]

“Subject to criteria” - Don’t know what these are then. They must be fairly stringent as to my knowledge we’ve never signed any non-Europeans that are not full internationals.

Agains, having read the new rules, this will now be possible provided they are first team regulars at a decent level and youth internationals.

Iceland, Australia, and USA (via an EFL Club)

 

[TadB]

I think the quality is incredibly varied in the MLS. The money is definitely there. Some of the new expansion teams in particular, the likes of LAFC and Atlanta United have very good setups and some good young players.

If the money is there then they can pay bigger salaries than us.

 

[BFC1997]

If the money is there then they can pay bigger salaries than us.

But not bigger than those available in the PL. We are offering them the chance to make it there.

 

[liverbee]

Chlorinated footballers.

 

[jlove]

If you include South America in "America", then that's probably the most productive market to be looking in.

 

[homerbees]

Bryan Reynolds, FC Dallas right back. Linked to clubs in Italy, Belgium & France recently.

Don't know anything about him, but American fella at work says he's a young player worth keeping an eye on.

 

[BFC1997]

Bryan Reynolds, FC Dallas right back. Linked to clubs in Italy, Belgium & France recently.

Don't know anything about him, but American fella at work says he's a young player worth keeping an eye on.

Their previous RB, Reggie Cannon joined Portuguese top flight side Boavista in the summer.

Only 22 himself and a regular for USMNT.

 

[Ealing Bee]

It's easy - and often justified - to scoff at the MLS, but it is improving* and expanding. And whatever else, American sport is supremely professional when it comes to sports science, training and conditioning etc, which must funnel down to "soccer".

And when you consider so many players are the sons/grandsons of immigrants from football-loving nations (so are pushed towards the game), and the money is improving, they're now beginning to produce decent youngsters who will want to go to Europe to improve themselves. They certainly produce decent keepers - eg Friedel, Keller, Howard, Guzan, Hahnemann:
US Players in Premier League | List of Americans Soccer Players in EPL
We shouldn't be sniffy (imo).


* - When I say "improving", I trust it's a good deal better than the Colorado Rapids v DC United game I attended about 20 years back. A 30-something John Spencer was the best player on the pitch (iirc, notched a hattrick).

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

It's easy - and often justified - to scoff at the MLS, but it is improving* and expanding. And whatever else, American sport is supremely professional when it comes to sports science, training and conditioning etc, which must funnel down to "soccer".

And when you consider so many players are the sons/grandsons of immigrants from football-loving nations (so are pushed towards the game), and the money is improving, they're now beginning to produce decent youngsters who will want to go to Europe to improve themselves. They certainly produce decent keepers - eg Friedel, Keller, Howard, Guzan, Hahnemann:
US Players in Premier League | List of Americans Soccer Players in EPL
We shouldn't be sniffy (imo).


* - When I say "improving", I trust it's a good deal better than the Colorado Rapids v DC United game I attended about 20 years back. A 30-something John Spencer was the best player on the pitch (iirc, notched a hattrick).

MLS IMO is a much improved standard and there will be some very good young players itching to get a shot at the EPL.

 

[GP200]

.................awesome...............will we get some soccerball first picks????????.............

 

[Gee Bee]

When Bradley Wright Philips is considered one of the greatest the MLS has ever seen I have no interest in players from American

Pulisic looks quite useful.

 

[Ealing Bee]

When Bradley Wright Philips is considered one of the greatest the MLS has ever seen I have no interest in players from American

And when Carlton Palmer was considered good enough to get 18 caps for England....

 

[shouldbee]

Does this mean we may be signing some awesome soccer players ?

 

[JANORAK]

.................awesome...............will we get some soccerball first picks????????.............

No, because we’re at the top.

 

[aslan]

Pulisic looks quite useful.

But a grand total of zero MLS appearances

 

[BFC1997]

Philadelphia Union centre back Mark McKenzie has joined Genk for a reported fee of $6m. Celtic had been interested.

 

[BFC1997]

Matthew Hoppe (19), who left California United Strikers FC in 2017 has 9 goals in 6 appearances for Schalke 04 in Germany.

Hattrick today vs Hoffenheim.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347934995160174592

 

[Silly Hat]

My understanding is that we previously could only sign non-Europeans if they were full internationals e.g Mokotjo.

Under the new rules youth internationals from outside the EEA who are playing regular first team football may also now be eligible for work permits.

Mokotjo had a Dutch passport.

 

[FlyBee]

Have we got room on our roster for all these yanks?

 

[swr22]

I wonder whether we might scout the US college ranks and offer some of the more promising players a route to Europe rather than being drafted into the MLS

 

[BFC1997]

I wonder whether we might scout the US college ranks and offer some of the more promising players a route to Europe rather than being drafted into the MLS

There are some UK-based youngsters that earn scholarships to at US colleges for Soccer.

Jack Harrison (now in the PL with Leeds) being on such example.

 

[TadB]

There are some UK-based youngsters that earn scholarships to at US colleges for Soccer.

Jack Harrison (now in the PL with Leeds) being on such example.

How do we square that with the new migration rules?

 

[Gee Bee]

But a grand total of zero MLS appearances

Thread title doesn't mention MLS. Just American Transfer market. He was picked up young from America, so scouting at youth level in USA is important. Does Alphonso Davies count?

 

[TadB]

Philadelphia Union centre back Mark McKenzie has joined Genk for a reported fee of $6m. Celtic had been interested.

Genk is an EU club! We have left the EU so how do we square signing such players in accordance with U.K. migrant worker rules?

 

[JANORAK]

Thread title doesn't mention MLS. Just American Transfer market. He was picked up young from America, so scouting at youth level in USA is important. Does Alphonso Davies count?

I can remember thinking we’d got a foot in that market when John Mousinho came along.....

 

[Gee Bee]

I can remember thinking we’d got a foot in that market when John Mousinho came along.....

He was a school mate of Martin Allen son who got a US scholarship.

 

[jlove]

There's a lot of US university scholarships, including many sports ones, for international students, so I'd expect the traffic to be more out of the UK than in. I'd also assume there are well-established scouting networks in the US, so not too difficult to access the data but highly competitive. Our own network appears to focus more on markets that are less well analysed.

 

[swr22]

There's a lot of US university scholarships, including many sports ones, for international students, so I'd expect the traffic to be more out of the UK than in. I'd also assume there are well-established scouting networks in the US, so not too difficult to access the data but highly competitive. Our own network appears to focus more on markets that are less well analysed.

I'd be curious to know whether there is much data on NCAA college soccer along the lines you suggest. Not sure if Benham's company would compile stats on those games.

 

[jlove]

I'd be curious to know whether there is much data on NCAA college soccer along the lines you suggest. Not sure if Benham's company would compile stats on those games.

I'd guess there will be in the US, that has a high level of sports data analysis, and that Smartodds would be able to access it if needed. Today's signing from non-League certainly points to the breadth of our scouting (and, I assume, data collection).

 

[swr22]

I'd guess there will be in the US, that has a high level of sports data analysis, and that Smartodds would be able to access it if needed. Today's signing from non-League certainly points to the breadth of our scouting (and, I assume, data collection).

I wonder whether Leatherhead U-18s is more of a case of a recommendation rather than data analysis.
Would be curious to know the answer for NCAA. Certainly at USC the women's team (despite being national champions) would get c.150 people and were only sometimes on the conference TV station and, while USC didn't have a men's team, when I was at Brown the number of people attending a tournament game against UNC Ashville was about the same number.

 

[jlove]

I wonder whether Leatherhead U-18s is more of a case of a recommendation rather than data analysis.

Yes, I'd guess it's recommendation>data>scouting.

 

[HaylingBee74]

Maybe the American market shouldn’t be totally overlooked, Schalke04 signed Matthew Hoppe from Barcelona’s academy based in the US. After 1 goal in 16 appearances for Schalke’s 2nd team he gets promoted to their struggling first team, they are bottom. He has scored 4 in 6 games including 1 yesterday vs Eintracht Frankfurt and a hat-trick last weekend vs Hoffenheim

Matthew Hoppe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org