B-Team Production

Frothybaby

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I was wondering at what point this idea becomes successful, if it isn't already. There is the Rob Rowan debut board but is that enough to be a success. When you look at the list of debuts (I think 19) the obvious success is Mepham. Not just for the games played (started) but also the money it brought in. If that money goes towards this project, then it will be a while before it runs out. However I don't think it can be used specifically for that.

Of those debuts the ones that are no longer with the club, I think Zain Westbrooke is the only player doing well. (I don't know how the Greek lad, Ilias, is doing). We do seem to be getting more consistency from those still here:

played
Patrik Gunnarsson 3 (1)
Chris Mepham 42 (6)
Mads Bech Sorensen 10 (2)
Luca Racic 7 (2)
Mads Roerslev 6 (6)
Jan Zamburek 4 (14)
Marcus Forss 4 (8)

I think that's it. I haven't included Oksanen and Hammer.

Of those, they should all have a career in football, a financial return on the investment, or game time for us. If we get promoted, you would think the level of ability we will need has to improve. If we don't get promoted, I would imagine nearly all of our first team would be on some teams wish list. So, that would be the best chance for those listed above to make a Mepham like contribution. (You wonder how many games he would have got, if not for the lack of first team defenders). Otherwise, they will go to other teams/leagues hopefully with a sell on clause.

It may be that the 31 (ignoring Mepham) first team starts is good enough from those listed above. I guess there needs to be a turnover and the B-team provides opportunity and cover. Of those listed above the obvious potential for Brentford first team starts of 25+ is Racic, Roeslev and possibly Zamburek and Forss, as long as the opportunities are forthcoming. I thought Brisset and Onen would make it, but no. Of those left in the Bteam I have heard promising things about Shepperd, O'Conner, Read, Adams and Mogenson. We will never know for sure, but it seems like a far more positive and successful option than the Academy (especially with prospect being pilfered .

I believe it's a good thing for the club. But if it doesn't produce a Mepham a season, or every 2-3 seasons, is it enough? Is 31 starts enough of a success?
 
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Frothybaby

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I wonder why this doesn't appear on new thread section of home page?
 

Mr Cynical

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Think Ilias has done quite well. Seems to have played a fair few games..

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ilias-chatzitheodoridis/profil/spieler/340308

Carre and Adams have both looked very promising too. No doubt there will be a large influx of B teamers this summer as I think we're down to about 12 and that includes Oksanen and Hammar who you'd think would be on the verge of the 1st team squad..
 

The Joker

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From a distance, I'd say it's undoubtedly the right model. You can see how integrated the B team is with the first team and it demonstrates how players can step up easily and fit in quickly.

I could easily see Racic and Roerslev going on to have successful careers with us. Maybe Zamburek and Gunnarson too.

One 'problem' is the first team constantly raising the bar in terms of the level required. We're now almost a Premier League team - which means any B team recruits have to step up to that level.
 

Beat Poet

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The secondary objective is to produce players who can go on and make professional careers for "theirselves", which is steadily becoming more of a thing. Long gone are the days of 8 players being released and all of them dropping straight into the Isthmian League South Central Division or out of football altogether.
 

Banana

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The mark will be if the players that leave us right now have already been fixed-up with other clubs.
 

Les Beeavinu

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From a distance, I'd say it's undoubtedly the right model. You can see how integrated the B team is with the first team and it demonstrates how players can step up easily and fit in quickly.

I could easily see Racic and Roerslev going on to have successful careers with us. Maybe Zamburek and Gunnarson too.

One 'problem' is the first team constantly raising the bar in terms of the level required. We're now almost a Premier League team - which means any B team recruits have to step up to that level.
Might need a C team.
 

Beat Poet

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Wonder if those cups will be finished at the beginning of next season?
I tweeted both FAs and only one responded, was typical "we are looking into it" blah blah. I don't think it'll happen, the squads will have changed too much by the time they play them.
 

Mr Cynical

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I tweeted both FAs and only one responded, was typical "we are looking into it" blah blah. I don't think it'll happen, the squads will have changed too much by the time they play them.
Can't see it. Are non-league clubs even back training yet?
 
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Frothybaby

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It will be interesting to see what happens with Forss. Talk of Ivan Toney being worth £ms. Forss possibly would have caught the top scorers at the rate he was scoring. He was playing for a much worse team than Peterborough.
 

swr22

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It will be interesting to see what happens with Forss. Talk of Ivan Toney being worth £ms. Forss possibly would have caught the top scorers at the rate he was scoring. He was playing for a much worse team than Peterborough.
Depending on how transfers go, a season in the Championship if we're in the Prem might be great for his development
 
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Frothybaby

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Yes, it would, ideally with a team playing nearer our style than the Anti-football mob. Mind you I guess he would learn a lot from those as well.
 

Bagman

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Wonder if those cups will be finished at the beginning of next season?
The London FA will be continuing with the London Senior Cup from last season!

Good news for Erith Town who have a semi-final tie with Brentford B to look forward to!
 

Mr Cynical

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The London FA will be continuing with the London Senior Cup from last season!

Good news for Erith Town who have a semi-final tie with Brentford B to look forward to!
oh, cool. when is that happening?
 

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oh, cool. when is that happening?
I believe the plan is last week of August behind closed doors, which is little frustrating for Erith.

Erith lost their first pre season game 4-1 to Croydon of the division below on Saturday. They were awful trying to play a new 3-5-2 system, unlike last season when they were long ball.
 

Mr Cynical

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I believe the plan is last week of August behind closed doors, which is little frustrating for Erith.

Erith lost their first pre season game 4-1 to Croydon of the division below on Saturday. They were awful trying to play a new 3-5-2 system, unlike last season when they were long ball.
why does it need to be behind closed doors? Surely there wouldn't be many there? V annoying..
 

Beat Poet

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It's a strange move as the integrity of the competition hasn't been kept, what with transfer dealings etc...but who cares, it's all good for the B team.
 

Stanley

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Some B team players may have more chances next season to move up to the first team given we will not be a PL club. In an odd way they may benefit from our pain.
 

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It will be interesting to see what happens with this over the next few years. I think in all honesty the B team has yet to produce a true first team player, with the exception of Chris Mepham who started in the academy so is as much a product of the previous system. I am hopeful about Zamburek, Gunnarsson, and Forss but it could go either way and I'm not seeing too many other potential stars in the current batch, but others have seen more than me. Maybe Mads Bidstrup or Maghoma will come through.

I guess when we sign really promising U21 players they tend to go straight into the first team, like Rico Henry and Josh DaSilva, and the idea that you can set up some kind of production line to develop them starting from such a late age is a little optimistic or at least bound to have more misses than hits.

Looking forward to seeing who else we recruit as we do seem to be targeting a higher calibre of player now, but I think we have been a bit quick to declare this a rip roaring success to be honest, notwithstanding the financial savings from ditching the academy.
 

jlove

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The B Team challenge is that the first team has significantly improved each season, so B Team players have a steeper mountain to climb. Nevertheless, they are fully-attuned to our style of play but may just need to wait; instead of getting thrown in at 20, it may be 23.
 

grutter

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It will be interesting to see what happens with this over the next few years. I think in all honesty the B team has yet to produce a true first team player, with the exception of Chris Mepham who started in the academy so is as much a product of the previous system. I am hopeful about Zamburek, Gunnarsson, and Forss but it could go either way and I'm not seeing too many other potential stars in the current batch, but others have seen more than me. Maybe Mads Bidstrup or Maghoma will come through.

I guess when we sign really promising U21 players they tend to go straight into the first team, like Rico Henry and Josh DaSilva, and the idea that you can set up some kind of production line to develop them starting from such a late age is a little optimistic or at least bound to have more misses than hits.

Looking forward to seeing who else we recruit as we do seem to be targeting a higher calibre of player now, but I think we have been a bit quick to declare this a rip roaring success to be honest, notwithstanding the financial savings from ditching the academy.
Good post. I think Forss is a good example, who was being touted as 1st team material at the start of the season (even had some sub appearances), but went out on loan, got injured, etc. He's now seemingly down the line behind Dervisoglu and whoever we bring in to replace Watkins (assuming he goes). The B teamer has to be really outstanding to get into the 1st team regularly. e.g. Roerslev has not looked comfortable when I've seen him come in. Probably good enough for a mid-table championship team, but in high pressure top of the table games, maybe not.

I suppose financially, MB only needs one of the B teamers to make it really big every 2 or 3 years to make it worth its while (like a Mepham as you mentioned).It gets increasingly challenging attracting players that will be good enough to potentially play in the 1st team at Champ/PL level, but essentially, have them in the reserves, then seeing other players bought in above them.

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation; the only way we'll really know if they're good enough is to give them a good run in the 1st team, which is a massive gamble when challenging for the top 2 or top 6. Thomas showed when push came to shove in important games, he really didn't want to fiddle about with his best 14 or so players. If I was a B teamer, I wouldn't see much of a pathway there.
 

Mr Cynical

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Good post. I think Forss is a good example, who was being touted as 1st team material at the start of the season (even had some sub appearances), but went out on loan, got injured, etc. He's now seemingly down the line behind Dervisoglu and whoever we bring in to replace Watkins (assuming he goes). The B teamer has to be really outstanding to get into the 1st team regularly. e.g. Roerslev has not looked comfortable when I've seen him come in. Probably good enough for a mid-table championship team, but in high pressure top of the table games, maybe not.

I suppose financially, MB only needs one of the B teamers to make it really big every 2 or 3 years to make it worth its while (like a Mepham as you mentioned).It gets increasingly challenging attracting players that will be good enough to potentially play in the 1st team at Champ/PL level, but essentially, have them in the reserves, then seeing other players bought in above them.

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation; the only way we'll really know if they're good enough is to give them a good run in the 1st team, which is a massive gamble when challenging for the top 2 or top 6. Thomas showed when push came to shove in important games, he really didn't want to fiddle about with his best 14 or so players. If I was a B teamer, I wouldn't see much of a pathway there.
you say that but we've got B teamers regularly training with the first squad and clocking up minutes. Zamburek has prob been on more than most and both he and Roerslev were trusted with minutes in the run in. Both look like great prospects. On top of that Racic has the potential to be a first choice CB, he's looked excellent whenever he's come into the team and has the ability on the ball we're missing a little at the mo. He's even scored for the first team. Then you've got Forss who was banging goals in for fun for AFC at league one level. I would not be at all suprised if Oksanen gets his 1st team promotion this summer and we see more of him from pre-season. We don't necessarily need another Mepham to make it worthwhile though, we're currently using B team and ex-B team players to top up the squad and it has been an effective extra level of players to call upon so far. We can't afford a massive squad and to have youngsters who can step in comfortably is a massive bonus which we've never had before.
 

Beat Poet

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Would be nice if we could not lose in the first round to lower league opposition in the League Cup this coming season, so we could get the inbetweeners and a handful of B teamers some additional first team game time.
 
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Mr Cynical

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Would be nice if we could not lose in the first round to lower league opposition in the League Cup this coming season, so we could get the inbetweeners and a handful of B teamers some additional first team game time.
In theory we should have a much better, more settled second string this season so fingers crossed!
 

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It seems as if Arsenal are copying our B squad model. They have now signed three freebie 19 year olds to 'bring on' in their Under 23s . One released by Huddersfield, another by Spuds. Flattering I suppose.
 

wanderer paul

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It seems as if Arsenal are copying our B squad model. They have now signed three freebie 19 year olds to 'bring on' in their Under 23s . One released by Huddersfield, another by Spuds. Flattering I suppose.
They’re just “fillers” to make up their squad for that competition. The better ones will be loaned out.
 

Mr Cynical

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With Racic now off to Northampton, it's good to see that the last few loans of players who've graduated from the B team have all been at League One level. Hopefully Racic will do as well there as Sorenson and Forss did at Wimbledon. No reason to think he won't which does show that the level of player we're producing has gone up significantly recently..
 
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Frothybaby

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Also Patrik Gunnarson at Southend. Although they were league 2.
 

Mr Cynical

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Neil MacFarlane said that there were a few B teamers training with the first team at St Georges.. Any idea who? Given the number of trialists today, looks like most of the remaining B team squad!!
 

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Neil MacFarlane said that there were a few B teamers training with the first team at St Georges.. Any idea who? Given the number of trialists today, looks like most of the remaining B team squad!!
Maghoma and Bidstrup definitely. Would expect Hammar and one of the goalkeepers too.
 

Mr Cynical

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Maghoma and Bidstrup definitely. Would expect Hammar and one of the goalkeepers too.
was odd there were no goalkeepers at Hanwell today given how many we have? They can't ALL be at St Georges surely?
 

Beat Poet

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Neil MacFarlane said that there were a few B teamers training with the first team at St Georges.. Any idea who? Given the number of trialists today, looks like most of the remaining B team squad!!
Maghoma and Bidstrup definitely. Would expect Hammar and one of the goalkeepers too.
Seen Hammar pictured. Got Shepperd, Bidstrup, Carré and Maghoma left to account for!
 

Mr Cynical

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In Neil MacFarlane's interview post Bromley he reveals that Mogensen is out until January, Bidstrup out 'for a significant period' and Wraynel Hercules out for a bit less than the other two.. Nathan Shepherd also not due back for some time. Nightmare with injuries for the B team, particularly Mogensen and Bidstrup..
 

Beat Poet

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This definitely feels like a season of transition, whereby they're really taking their time over incoming transfers, so that if/when we do get promoted to the PL, loans to L1 become routine and some can even get Championship loans. They also need to improve the standard so that, as we're seeing now, even with injuries, the squad isn't entirely depleted by players being out on loan.
 

Mr Cynical

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We're definitely seeing a step up again in standard of B team player. The majority of players we're bringing in have already played some form of 'mens football'. Really bad news the injuries to Mogensen and Bidstrup. Mogensen was looking really good and was probably getting involved on the fringes of the first team squad and Bidstrup looked like he had the ability to challenge pretty quickly, in fact he got called up to the first team training straight away I think..
 

Jim Rourke

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So have our fortunes changed on injuries.? Over the years I have felt, while we have had one or two long term, not as many as this.

To add to the B Team list is Roerslev, Noorgaard (Hopefully very short term). I personally feel there is something underlaying with Baptiste (Really hope Shandon can get fit enough to have a regular place is first eleven).

Assume Bidstrup is an ACL which would be a real shame
 
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Frothybaby

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Sad to see that Tom Field, Reece Cole and Cole DaSilva are all currently without clubs.
 

Mr Cynical

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Sad to see that Tom Field, Reece Cole and Cole DaSilva are all currently without clubs.
That is a real shame, all three showed a load of promise. Reece Cole in particular I'm surprised about as he had a really good spell up in Scotland..
 

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I thought there was a bit of a hint in PG's transfer window interview that maybe the B team has yet to prove its full worth in supplying players for the first team which is of course its main aim. Not to say it won't but that expectations are high.
 

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