Barnsley match reports and comments

Bill Benn

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Not good enough yesterday same old pretty football when we did play, no end product sound familiar? Do hope we sign a big lump of a striker for next season someone who can create a bit of havoc in the box. Just to give us a plan B.

Think that is the solution for clubs in relegation fights and the usual lazy solutions.Look at the teams below us and further down the lower leagues to see how this fails.Prefer to us to continue with our successful style and improve on it.
 

sonofabee

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Not good enough yesterday same old pretty football when we did play, no end product sound familiar? Do hope we sign a big lump of a striker for next season someone who can create a bit of havoc in the box. Just to give us a plan B.

Sorry Sid, signing a big lump is the worst thing we could do as would signal an end to the successful strategy that has seen the best 4 seasons in my lifetime.
Big, quick, goal scorer yes, big lump definitely not!
 

grutter

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Think that is the solution for clubs in relegation fights and the usual lazy solutions.Look at the teams below us and further down the lower leagues to see how this fails.Prefer to us to continue with our successful style and improve on it.

In other words, "do plan A better."

Now who was it that used to get castigated for saying that? I don't want our style of football to change, but there are occasionally games where it doesn't come off and we need to try something else. A physical threat might be that something? The difference between us and many others is that that is their plan A.
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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Sorry Sid, signing a big lump is the worst thing we could do as would signal an end to the successful strategy that has seen the best 4 seasons in my lifetime.
Big, quick, goal scorer yes, big lump definitely not!

I don't see what's wrong with having a Matt Smith on the bench. If we're 2-1 down with 15 mins to go and the opposition are stacking deep and comfortably defending. Chucking him on extra instead of a defensive player might get us a few more points. Don't think anyone's suggesting we change our overall strategy or way we play.
(by the sounds of it this less applies to the Barnsley match though)
 

Bill Benn

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In other words, "do plan A better."

Now who was it that used to get castigated for saying that? I don't want our style of football to change, but there are occasionally games where it doesn't come off and we need to try something else. A physical threat might be that something? The difference between us and many others is that that is their plan A.

I agree we do need a far more physical presence and threat which I’m sure will be addressed in the summer and hopefully will be from kick off rather than from the bench.
 

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All this lower-league blx about a "physical threat"; what century are we in? Maupay is a physical threat! He seems intent on GBH all the time.

This season, we've introduced a new formation and style, plus new young players. What we need is to enhance the squad where there are weaknesses and inevitable losses – restock the defence; improve the DHM position; add more mobility and technical ability to the midfield; add more across the attacking three. All of this is plain to see. Recruiting some 6'7" lump to "give an an option" would be a retrograde step. Would one have made a difference yesterday? Not in a million years.
 

Les Beeavinu

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All this lower-league blx about a "physical threat"; what century are we in? Maupay is a physical threat! He seems intent on GBH all the time.

This season, we've introduced a new formation and style, plus new young players. What we need is to enhance the squad where there are weaknesses and inevitable losses – restock the defence; improve the DHM position; add more mobility and technical ability to the midfield; add more across the attacking three. All of this is plain to see. Recruiting some 6'7" lump to "give an an option" would be a retrograde step. Would one have made a difference yesterday? Not in a million years.

Agreed. Mobility is the key - most teams have big centre backs so a big centre forward with balls played up in the air puts them in their comfort zone. They need to be moved around. If we found a big, mobile centre forward - i.e someone who can do both - that's a different matter.
 

sonofabee

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I don't see what's wrong with having a Matt Smith on the bench. If we're 2-1 down with 15 mins to go and the opposition are stacking deep and comfortably defending. Chucking him on extra instead of a defensive player might get us a few more points. Don't think anyone's suggesting we change our overall strategy or way we play.
(by the sounds of it this less applies to the Barnsley match though)

Don’t agree that going route one against a team stacked deep and defending comfortably will work otherwise every team would have a basketball type forward on the bench.
More patience, creativity and clever in and around the box, game changing player is the answer. As rare as hens teeth but clever players capable of special is the answer, we need more than just Romaine, we need the next Pritchard or Jota who can win games with a piece of magic.
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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All this lower-league blx about a "physical threat"; what century are we in? Maupay is a physical threat! He seems intent on GBH all the time.

This season, we've introduced a new formation and style, plus new young players. What we need is to enhance the squad where there are weaknesses and inevitable losses – restock the defence; improve the DHM position; add more mobility and technical ability to the midfield; add more across the attacking three. All of this is plain to see. Recruiting some 6'7" lump to "give an an option" would be a retrograde step. Would one have made a difference yesterday? Not in a million years.

Maupay isn't remotely a physical threat. He's an arsey so and so who likes an irrelevant tussle with defenders but that's no use at all.
Everyone knows we have formation and style - this is plain to see.
Recruiting a more physical striker to mix-up the attack and make it less one-dimensional is not a retrograde step. That's just an extremely simplistic way of looking at it.
It might not have made a difference yesterday but it might in other matches.
We've had plenty of mobility and creativity dancing around the box in many matches, resulting in lots of chances, but often of a poor quality.
This is exactly what many teams want. Keep us at arms length.
Having someone mixing it up in the box and able to carry more aerial threat or provide knock-downs for others would potentially make that more difficult.
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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Don’t agree that going route one against a team stacked deep and defending comfortably will work otherwise every team would have a basketball type forward on the bench.
More patience, creativity and clever in and around the box, game changing player is the answer. As rare as hens teeth but clever players capable of special is the answer, we need more than just Romaine, we need the next Pritchard or Jota who can win games with a piece of magic.

Most other teams already have much more height/physicality in midfield or up front and probably have less of a need to. Some still do anyway.
 

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How did McBurnie do yesterday? Is he the type of player people are referring to?
 
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How did McBurnie do yesterday? Is he the type of player people are referring to?

I'm told he was a beast and gave us a lot of trouble as he is, strong, bustling and never gives up as well as having a decent touch. If he was not on our radar before he should be now as I suspect he is gettable. I just hope he is not another Sam Gallagher who looked phenomenal on loan last season but has done nothing this season at Birmingham
 

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How did McBurnie do yesterday? Is he the type of player people are referring to?
Very mobile, tall and beat Barbet in the air to score. Only 21 but he'd have some value to Swansea, so wouldn't come cheap.
 

sonofabee

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How did McBurnie do yesterday? Is he the type of player people are referring to?

Personally I thought he reminded me of a poor mans Steve Claridge, gangly, socks down, awkward but effective type. The wide man Mahoney the number 21 looked far better yesterday IMHO but know he’s been inconsistent accord to the Tyke on the train.
 

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Sorry Sid, signing a big lump is the worst thing we could do as would signal an end to the successful strategy that has seen the best 4 seasons in my lifetime.
Big, quick, goal scorer yes, big lump definitely not!

Isn't Mitrovic a big lump? And not overly quick? And Fulham play good football. I know we can't afford him and we have our limitations in terms of budget, but the view that you have to be a midget to be a decent footballer and fit in to our side is a false one in my opinion.
 

jlove

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Maupay isn't remotely a physical threat. He's an arsey so and so who likes an irrelevant tussle with defenders but that's no use at all.
Everyone knows we have formation and style - this is plain to see.
Recruiting a more physical striker to mix-up the attack and make it less one-dimensional is not a retrograde step. That's just an extremely simplistic way of looking at it.
It might not have made a difference yesterday but it might in other matches.
We've had plenty of mobility and creativity dancing around the box in many matches, resulting in lots of chances, but often of a poor quality.
This is exactly what many teams want. Keep us at arms length.
Having someone mixing it up in the box and able to carry more aerial threat or provide knock-downs for others would potentially make that more difficult.

You clearly don't mean "physical threat" then. If we had this mythical beast, who would cross the ball to him and who would pick up these knock-downs? We don't really have the other players to go with it, so he would be a useless beanpole. We have to believe in, strengthen and develop on what we have, not chop and change on a whim.
 

sonofabee

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Isn't Mitrovic a big lump? And not overly quick? And Fulham play good football. I know we can't afford him and we have our limitations in terms of budget, but the view that you have to be a midget to be a decent footballer and fit in to our side is a false one in my opinion.

Mitrovic is a quality finisher from inside and out of the box, he is nothing like the Matt Smith lump I refer to!
 

sonofabee

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Isn't Mitrovic a big lump? And not overly quick? And Fulham play good football. I know we can't afford him and we have our limitations in terms of budget, but the view that you have to be a midget to be a decent footballer and fit in to our side is a false one in my opinion.

Read my previous post I said lump definitely not but big, mobile goal scorer yes, Mitrovic is the latter.
 

Bill Benn

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Mitrovic is a quality finisher from inside and out of the box, he is nothing like the Matt Smith lump I refer to!

Would have loved to have had him this season pretty sure we would have made top 2 but way out of our budget.Would never put him in the big lump category.
 

IslandBee

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Our support was poor.

Completely agree - the belief seemed to drain out of the fans as much as the players after the first goal. After Fulham scored, there was an immediate reaction, yesterday there were several half-hearted attempts to build an atmosphere but they fizzled out very quickly. On and off the pitch there was a lack of belief. Quite liked Barnsley though - lively town centre and a very interesting history. Glad I went!
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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You clearly don't mean "physical threat" then. If we had this mythical beast, who would cross the ball to him and who would pick up these knock-downs? We don't really have the other players to go with it, so he would be a useless beanpole. We have to believe in, strengthen and develop on what we have, not chop and change on a whim.

I really don't know why you consider a different type of striker, like Matt Smith, as a mythical beast.
Who would cross to him!? Are you seriously suggesting we've got nobody who can cross? Don't know what team you've been watching this year!
Who would pick up the knock downs? Anyone else......
It's not chopping and changing on a whim to simply have another option we could occasionally use.
 

Bangor Bee

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The way in which we failed to respond to their opening goal after we had totally bossed the first 10 minutes was very disappointing. Heads seemed to drop and we just couldn't get going again. No doubt the result at Derby the other evening did not help.

A couple of things stood out for me: Watkins is not and may never be an out and out centre forward; at least for the foreseeable future we should continue to play him out wide, where he looked far more at home. Macleod seemed either uninterested or unable to compete against a bustling midfield -- he had a shocker, and Scotsoc beckons on that display. As others have said, almost all the other players were well below their best. For me only Mepham and Woods had decent games.
 
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magicbees

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I hope we decide to get a loan player or 2 in next season. We are starting at a disadvantage as all clubs outside the premiership bring loans in.
 

A Real Mysteron

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Completely agree - the belief seemed to drain out of the fans as much as the players after the first goal. After Fulham scored, there was an immediate reaction, yesterday there were several half-hearted attempts to build an atmosphere but they fizzled out very quickly. On and off the pitch there was a lack of belief. Quite liked Barnsley though - lively town centre and a very interesting history. Glad I went!

The away end is appalling though.
High roof which doesn’t allow any noise to build.
 

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I hope we decide to get a loan player or 2 in next season. We are starting at a disadvantage as all clubs outside the premiership bring loans in.

The ludicrous costs of getting loan players makes this an unlikely scenario and doesn’t fit with our philosophy of buy potential, develop and sell.

To get the loan players that you want cost serious money, Fulham are paying £30k a week for their CF with Newcastle funding the other £30k !!!

Personally I hope we continue with the process that has served us well with 5 top 10 finishes, just a little luck and the next step awaits
 

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It doesn’t fit the strategy as we can’t sell someone we don’t own
So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.
 

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Personally I thought he reminded me of a poor mans Steve Claridge, gangly, socks down, awkward but effective type. The wide man Mahoney the number 21 looked far better yesterday IMHO but know he’s been inconsistent accord to the Tyke on the train.

Spot on Claridge/ Albert Steptoe hybrid 😁
 

Les Beeavinu

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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

Considering our resources, I think every Brentford supporter should be delighted with the current state of our club and I would hope most realise that having ambitions of promotion and failing is understandable given the competition. As far as I'm aware, nobody promised anything.
 

Doovster

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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

I must have missed these promises about being PL within 3 years. Where and when were these made?
 

dbee3

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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

It actually saddens me a Brentford supporter can hold this sort of view.
 

Mr Tree

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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

"promises"?! :eek:

the thing that always gets me about this line of argument is, do you realise how much money we'd get for going up?!? it's absolutely priority number one and it's ridiculous to think otherwise :rolleyes:
 
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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

Why not stamp your foot a few times and cry out "It's not fair!!!" That might make you feel a bit better.

Jota was never going to stay and if we had forced him to do so he would have continued to mope around as he did at the beginning of the season. Our only solution would have been to pay him nearly 5 times what he was earning - something Brum did and we could;t and never should.
 

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Wow, yesterday pissed me off but to question how we’ve got to where we are and suggest a change of thinking is needed is bizarre.
 

jlove

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I really don't know why you consider a different type of striker, like Matt Smith, as a mythical beast.
Who would cross to him!? Are you seriously suggesting we've got nobody who can cross? Don't know what team you've been watching this year!
Who would pick up the knock downs? Anyone else......
It's not chopping and changing on a whim to simply have another option we could occasionally use.

I think you've missed my original point. That we'll never bring in a player, especially a loan player, just to sit on the bench "to have another option". A) it's complete waste of budget and B) no player is going to join us on that basis (unless he's complete toilet).

This season I've been watching a really good and generally technically competent team of young players learning a very fluid style of play in a new formation. It's been a joy, with occasional bouts of depression. I'm confident that the players we retain will continue to mature and improve and that we'll continue to acquire players that turn out better than the ones we lose (although Sawyers' replacement worries me). The more we develop our style and the more players we recruit specifically for it, the better we will get... while continuing to survive financially.
 

sonofabee

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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

Time for a change, no thanks. I wouldn’t swap the last 5 years for the 50 I endured before.
Bottom 5 budget and we end up in top 8 for second season in last 4, not too much wrong in my opinion.
Please show me the statement I must have missed where the DOFs promised promotion within 3 years.
 

wanderer paul

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So is it the money that DoF are concerned about, or building a team for the top 2 in the championship, as we are not far off the pace at present, but need the little bit extra magic. If Jota had stayed and was in top form, how many more points would we have acquired! I would suggest enough for a play off place. The DoF have made various promises which are all noted about obtaining premiership football within 3 years and it has not happened. So is it time for a change, if the model has not worked as outlined by DOF.? I still think we need a little bit more strength and experience if we are going to get close, like under MW.

Ifs and buts. Means sod all. We are where we are because we haven’t quite got it right. Who gives an eff if the DoFs said 3 years.

What I see is my football club developing a strategy and the strategy working. Developing players, moving them on for good money, then bringing in replacements. One season it’ll work and we’ll click. There’s no way I’d want to see the way the Club works changed. If the right player is out there, at the right price, then I’m sure the DoFs and MB would snap them up. We aren’t the only Club looking for these special players to make the next step. How much has it cost Wolves, Fulham, Cardiff, Villa etc to get where they are? Millions
 

kevalutonbee

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Sandy1 are you familiar with the letters FFP at all?

It is very easy to spend other peoples money
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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I think you've missed my original point. That we'll never bring in a player, especially a loan player, just to sit on the bench "to have another option". A) it's complete waste of budget and B) no player is going to join us on that basis (unless he's complete toilet).

This season I've been watching a really good and generally technically competent team of young players learning a very fluid style of play in a new formation. It's been a joy, with occasional bouts of depression. I'm confident that the players we retain will continue to mature and improve and that we'll continue to acquire players that turn out better than the ones we lose (although Sawyers' replacement worries me). The more we develop our style and the more players we recruit specifically for it, the better we will get... while continuing to survive financially.

Your latter paragraph goes without saying (although I'm not worried about losing Sawyers) but that doesn't mean a different sort of striker, as an option, is a "mythical beast", that couldn't be utilised at certain times in matches, and would look like a total fish out of water playing with our team, and make the rest of the team look like fishes out of water.
So I disagree, that a decent big man (Matt Smith an example), couldn't cause an opposition side some different problems, on top of our normal attacking play.
No reason that player has to be an expensive loanee either.
 

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He’s an irritating, diving, time wasting git. But he can play.

I thought he flattered to deceive for most of the game. Better in the second half but generally Henrik had his measure IMO.
 

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I must have missed these promises about being PL within 3 years. Where and when were these made?

Couldnt disagree with sandys post more but I think they're referring to a comment made at a fans forum by Rasmus, though it wasn't a promise more of an aim. One of those no win questions really. If he said 5 or ten years people would have been moaning we have years of mid table football to look forward to. Fail to get promoted in the 3 years, which was always likely, the critics are out again. I'm happy to be seeing us for another year in the championship, I think the real push will come when the new ground is done. Most of you understand this though I know!
 

whyteleafebee76

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I agree that we should not go down the road of paying fees for loan players, that whole concept is just wrong in my opinion. It is a shame though as Bidwell, Forshaw, Canos all joined us permanently after a loan spell and they worked out well for us.
 

grutter

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I agree that we should not go down the road of paying fees for loan players, that whole concept is just wrong in my opinion. It is a shame though as Bidwell, Forshaw, Canos all joined us permanently after a loan spell and they worked out well for us.

Correct. We wouldn't have got out of that division if it wasn't for the loans system. I think Harlee was on loan to start with as well? Pritchard the next season made a big difference as well. However, the loans systems is so different now with costs and the inflexibility of timings when you can and can't take them on. If the system was the same now as it was then, I'm sure we'd be dabbling in it to make that extra bit of difference. We still might if it's one, special player.
 

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I thought he flattered to deceive for most of the game. Better in the second half but generally Henrik had his measure IMO.

He was the cult hero for their fans yesterday (more than any of their own players) and so he must have made a real impression since going there on loan.
 
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