Bees 0 - 0 Birmingham

Beesfan

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This might be controversial but interested in views and opinions. But Toney has contributed to our playing style change, we've gone more direct, and our style has adapted to his strengths, which has resulted in his goals. But plenty people moaning about our "flowing attacking" football has gone. You cant have both with Toney I don't think. Watkins played into our "flowing football". Fans need to accept that we've adapted to Toney. It's why Forss doesn't currently suit our style. Forss in last seasons side would get goals.

Agree, as good as Toney has been he style doesn’t suit the way we played last season. As hard as he works he does not stretch teams or work the channels which allow others to move into the space he leaves behind. He’s not overly comfortable on the ball which means unless others are already around him he’s not going to hold it up or run with allowothers to join in the attack...

This is by no means a criticism of Toney just a theory as to why we have played differently this year compared to when Ollie or Neal were up top..
 

sheffbee

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A lot of posters have been saying that Playing both CN and VJ doesn't work and it appears that they may well be right. I think the decision to leave one of them out is pretty difficult. Vitaly has consistently been one of our best players and I don't really think you could drop him. On the other hand Christian is fighting to regain his form and fitness after a bad injury. If you leave him out, that aint gonna happen. I'm glad I'm not the Head Coach.
 

IslandBee

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Thought we were decent in general. V good first half, just couldn’t take the chances, pulled birmingham apart particularly first half. Canos, Toney and maybe Mbeumo should have scored but it’s just not going in for us at the moment. Thought we looked solid defensively and Norgaard and Canos in particular were v good. Roerslev had a v effective game getting forward down the right. Birmingham defended v well though and we’re just missing that little spark up front or that little bit of luck. Autos was always a big ask at this point but I don’t think we’re that far away from finding our form in time for play offs. I do think we need to abandon the Norgaard, Janelt selection. Either one or the other and I’m afraid it needs to be Christian.. Don’t think we need to change too much more. It’ll come I think. Could do with Josh back as soon as though...

Pretty much how I saw it. I understand the Norgaard/Janelt thing but they were on when we were at our best tonight and both performed well first half. I didn't see enough from any of the other midfielders to suggest they should start before either of them. So, I can understand why TF persists with them. I would go with Marcondes as the third midfielder next game, though. Just to see if we can get someone closer to Toney.
 

Sandybee

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Ghoddos very poor again.
So I predicted these subs half an hour before kick off.... reality Marcondes for Jansen on 70, Fosu for Mbeueno on 78, Forss on for Canos with 6 to go..... I’m not a soothsayer, it’s just what Frank does. So predictable, unable to change it up, too late to make changes, happy to play the same patterns....Roserlev and Sorrenson totally ineffectual second half but stayed on for the full 90.
It’s very disappointing I know, but if he was a gambler, he’d have risked one of the full backs, swapping one for an attacking midfielder. Birmingham were content with a point, so wouldn’t have tried to capitalise, having already done their tactical subs. So, is he going for the playoffs? Our subs, and their timings made the game a non event. And as for Forss coming on for the last 5 minutes again, I’m surprised Forss doesn’t tell him to stick it, with our scoring record of late.
 

TorbayBee

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We’re so boring now & predictable. I’m fed up of the team selections & the substitutions let alone the same minutes we do them. Everyone was creaming themselves over that first half performance to me it was just paper over cracks. We’re not good enough anymore, can’t see us really improving either. Now let’s hear a recycled post match Frank interview fine margins top intensity blah blah blah 🥱
Then go away and support Man City, this is Brentford yes Brentford. It’s not a disaster, it’s not terrible it’s just my team at a low point and needing my support. If you cannot find it in your heart to do that then it’s best that you go somewhere where you always win.
 

spirebee

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we desparetely need jds, rico and henrik back......without these 3 we are a tame comparison of what we were.......i actually thought mbs had a decent game and has done well filling in for rico but roerslev is just not good enough and was the main reason everything slows down and his passing and crossing is pretty dire.....the next biggest problem is norgaard, great player but him and janelt cannot play together as both look a lot worse when combinded,,,,its one or the other and at the moment i prefer janelt.......jensen was poor and mbeumo just looks drained of confidence......fair play to canos who did ok but ghoddos and marcondes dont add anything much,,,,,,we are limping over the line into the play offs hopefully but still need a couple of wins to get there.......once we have everyone back weve got a chance but we need everyone back for that to happen.......and for tf to actually make the right decisions regarding line ups and tactics......he just doesnt fill me with any confidence that he will do that though
I have to agree and will strongly consider your application for assistant manager behind me!
 

Twickenhamben

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It’s very disappointing I know, but if he was a gambler, he’d have risked one of the full backs, swapping one for an attacking midfielder. Birmingham were content with a point, so wouldn’t have tried to capitalise, having already done their tactical subs. So, is he going for the playoffs? Our subs, and their timings made the game a non event. And as for Forss coming on for the last 5 minutes again, I’m surprised Forss doesn’t tell him to stick it, with our scoring record of late.
The issue I have is that I just don’t see TF affecting a game... it was the same last season. This campaign we have made the same substitutions regardless of who and how we are playing.... tonight the full backs were irrelevant. Do something else... as you say put an attacking player on to give Birmingham something to think about. But no we sleep walk into another non performance.
 

cliffbee

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Fully agreed re Norgaard and Janelt, they are too similar and lack the pace/control of JDS. I’d like to see Emiliano get a start as well, I feel he’s one of our best creators and can make our set pieces more effective. Also, what happened to the Pinnock corners? The worked well enough last year.

As for wingers, I really wish we would have recalled Valencia from his loan spell. We need his pace. Sadly, Forss does not fit the winger position well.
Last time I saw him mentioned, Valencia wasn't even starting matches in Poland
 

BaildonBee

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Next year will hopefully be loads better 👍

Maybe we can all go and watch them again 🤞

I think a higher premium is placed on the football during this pandemic.....it's difficult to be heard or to voice an opinion like you could to your mates at the game, pub, curry house or wherever and this forum and other social mediums become the outlet for any frustration.

A real victory, for me, will be a full Lionel road regardless of what division we are in.
Spot on. I am on here moments after the final whistle. When I am at a game I won't get to the GPG until at least 8pm and will probably be half cut by then! Emotions are heightened under the current restrictions.
 

abeeforever

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Very disappointing for us all, that was another non event, and very hard to watch, all our performances against the bottom half teams have been woefully poor, slow, ponderous and negative, with continued sideways an backward passing, very little attacking football that has made us attractive to watch previously, these are teams we should have been putting away with ease.

The way we are playing at the present we need to up our game dramatically to get anything out of this season, Realistically, Its sad to say, even if you believe in miracles, but auto promotion seems to be passing us by, making the play offs will be seen as success, fingers crossed we can eventually win them!!
 

BedfontRed

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You know when a black player gets called a monkey on Twitter, do you [checks notes] tell him to grow a pair, chill out, get off social media - and then add a few laughing emojis to demonstrate your empathy for victims of abuse? I’m just keen to understand where you stand on anonymous ****s deliberately affecting the mental wellbeing of other people. I’ve got a good guess though.
Say what you like I could care less. Playing the race card when I have never been racist on here or at a match just reacting to blaming social media for our inadequate performances of late on the pitch is just bullshit. I would have taken the play offs at start of the season but like many others got my hopes up. Every team and player in every league has had some sort abuse from fans at games or on the internet. I bet it’s far worse higher up. It’s not ever going to stop so get the feck off of it.
 

spirebee

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Isn’t the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results???
Nail on head.
He might do something different next time and swap the wingers over again.
Might wait until the 85th minute for the BM substitution and put Forrs on in the 90th. Little tweeks, but you never know......
 

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Another insipid serving of sterile predictable football. We’ve lost our mojo but don’t seem to be doing anything differently to rediscover it

Canos played well tonight but missed the game’s defining chance. But he drove us forwards. The Mads Brothers had better games and we looked relatively OK at CB

Toney completely isolated again, and tbh he looks a bit knackered. his flicks are great but we normally have nobody near him. And when he gets a chance to power through he doesn’t seem to get away properly so it’s normally a long distance shot. His goal scoring is immense but I think we miss Ollie running the channels more than we admit

Bryan making all the right runs but looks terrified when composure is needed. The weekly lottery of which of Jensen, Ghoddos and Marcondes can completely underwhelm in midfield (despite apparent ability) ended in a dead heat of crass sh*tness

The Raya throw-in debacle at the very end pretty well summed up our recent performances in it’s soul destroying ineptness
 

BFC1997

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We are playing with the handbrake on with no Dalsgaard, Dasilva, Henry. It’s not pretty.

Despite that, we defended well and then created the chances to win the game. Props to Frank and the players for that. Finishing was poor though. Frustrating, the Canos chance simply has to go in.

We then made it tougher for ourselves toward the end with poor subs. High quality chances started to dry up. Game slipped away. Ghoddos is getting too many minutes. Poor decision making by Frank or just a sign we haven’t currently got the required depth? Not sure which.
 

Twickenhamben

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To some of the people posting on here. Yes you can be both delighted about how incredible we have risen over the last decade, thankful about where we have come but also critical that we seem to be throwing away the chance for promotion (and more importantly the chance to safeguard our financial future). They are not mutually exclusive.

Yes we are 3rd but 13pts from 11 games suggest that we might scrape the playoffs but will be blown away in the end.
 

North Northants Bee

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A lot of posters have been saying that Playing both CN and VJ doesn't work and it appears that they may well be right. I think the decision to leave one of them out is pretty difficult. Vitaly has consistently been one of our best players and I don't really think you could drop him. On the other hand Christian is fighting to regain his form and fitness after a bad injury. If you leave him out, that aint gonna happen. I'm glad I'm not the Head Coach.
I think it could work but only if you have the full backs attacking and a front 3 like last season!
 

Manc_Bee

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AFC Bournemouth on 65. If the worst case happens and we drop out of the playoffs, does TF keep his job?
 

Delbee

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Crikey, I think you need to inform the EFL, and pronto. My league table says we’re third in the Championship, which is clearly wrong as you obviously have inside knowledge that we’re in the relegation zone, which would indeed make the season a disaster.
That’s only because of the 21 run of games earlier when we were getting good results, but my point is no longer is that happening as I said in the earlier post over those games mentioned we are in my mind very poor
 

Shamrock_Bee

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A lot of posters have been saying that Playing both CN and VJ doesn't work and it appears that they may well be right. I think the decision to leave one of them out is pretty difficult. Vitaly has consistently been one of our best players and I don't really think you could drop him. On the other hand Christian is fighting to regain his form and fitness after a bad injury. If you leave him out, that aint gonna happen. I'm glad I'm not the Head Coach.

I actually don't think it's a problem playing CN and JV together; I actually quite like it and it could add a bit of steel for the big play off games if we make them. I'd play them with Josh in front. The problem at the minute is whilst it's not personal, the full back's strength is not overlapping so we have no deep runners and our wingers are out of form. I'd like Fosu and Canos to start as wing backs and play Toney and Forss upfront with CN and JV controlling the midfield and providing cover. Jensen could play as the attacking midfielder until Josh and Rico come back and it can reviewed again. Our full backs are currently very defensively minded which makes people think JV and CN together is the problem, I don't think that is the case.
 

hitchinb

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One of our top players literally said that the abuse he got on social media affected him and you think that’s funny. Our manager literally said he has to warn the players to avoid social media because of the bile on it and you think that’s funny.

Shameful. Just shameful.
I'm sorry, maybe I'm just of the wrong generation but surely everyone who uses social media knows that it's a cesspit. Players must know what they are exposing themselves to if they go public with their accounts. If you can't take vile abuse from nonces, scumbags and vermin, then just stay away from it. It can't be allowed to be an excuse for playing badly. It wasn't long ago that the mantra was 'prove them wrong on the pitch'. (All that said, anyone who gives racist etc abuse should be hunted down and prosecuted.)
 

Gazza Bee

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Eh! This team should be challenging for the autos not mid-table. It's not just fans who think that, so do most pundits and, I imagine, MB.
This team are in 3rd which unless the Championship has suddenly reduced to 6 teams would suggest we are challenging for autos
 

Holysmit

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In a few months we can go to games as a crowd again. I know tonight and recently has been disappointing and I definitely want to go up but what ever division we are in next year just getting the band back together will be special.
 

Hippobee

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This disappointing run in, the chasing PO pack. and the reminders from the optimists that we are still 3rd in the table reminds me of that scene in Titanic.

You know - the bit where below decks, there's gallons of water pouring in, but up on 1st class, they're all supping their brandies and having a jolly nice time, while tragedy rises from below. Nothing to worry about here, this ship can't sink.

Time for Captain E. J Frank to change course.
 

IslandBee

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I actually don't think it's a problem playing CN and JV together; I actually quite like it and it could add a bit of steel for the big play off games if we make them. I'd play them with Josh in front. The problem at the minute is whilst it's not personal, the full back's strength is not overlapping so we have no deep runners and our wingers are out of form. I'd like Fosu and Canos to start as wing backs and play Toney and Forss upfront with CN and JV controlling the midfield and providing cover. Jensen could play as the attacking midfielder until Josh and Rico come back and it can reviewed again. Our full backs are currently very defensively minded which makes people think JV and CN together is the problem, I don't think that is the case.

There was nothing wrong with Canos's performance tonight, other than of course the missed chance! But I agree that CN/VJ together is not necessarily the problem.
 

Beefletch

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This team are in 3rd which unless the Championship has suddenly reduced to 6 teams would suggest we are challenging for autos
It might “suggest” we are but our performances say differently!
 

Untouchable

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I'm sorry, maybe I'm just of the wrong generation but surely everyone who uses social media knows that it's a cesspit. Players must know what they are exposing themselves to if they go public with their accounts. If you can't take vile abuse from nonces, scumbags and vermin, then just stay away from it. It can't be allowed to be an excuse for playing badly. It wasn't long ago that the mantra was 'prove them wrong on the pitch'. (All that said, anyone who gives racist etc abuse should be hunted down and prosecuted.)
Wow.

It’s not the fault of the abuser. It’s the fault of the abused for reading it.
 

james121bees

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Then go away and support Man City, this is Brentford yes Brentford. It’s not a disaster, it’s not terrible it’s just my team at a low point and needing my support. If you cannot find it in your heart to do that then it’s best that you go somewhere where you always win.

HA well I have for a long time, it’s come to the point where it’s insanity doing the same thing over & over again expecting different results. We’ve needed to start different players or change formation for a long time. Our squad is being poorly managed end off....
 

TadB

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I stopped reading the crap on social media months back. But there is a lot of frustration in many posts above and I can understand it. This league is dire. Watford will get second due to our inability not to get results in the last 4 games. Easy to blame missing players but what we are only missing 3 first teamers (yes they would make a difference). There has been some strange team selections recently that have not only confused me but others. Playing two defensive midfielders at home against Brum is shocking.

Missing just three players yes, however, we have one of the smallest squads of genuine first team players in the league. That is the essence of the problem. We can only afford top quality players if we only have a very small squad. Janelt is not playing out of position, he may not be as good as Marcondes (opinion) but believe it or not he was out of position playing defensive mid field even though he did very well there. Thomas Frank has a very limited choices available to him, and consequently after a poor result he quickly finds himself being hung out to dry. The suggestion that he play three at the back quickly runs into the problem of Sorrensen who is not by any stretch of the imagination an overlapping full back, and I am not sure that Roeslev is quite there yet. This is football, there are no easy answers in life, and there are no easy answers in football. Someone once said that at anyone time 95% of football fans are disappointed, and that seems about right to me. The Stock Market had the best day since Christmas, and I will go to bed thinking of that instead of football, and I will be more contented when I wake up tomorrow.
 

Silly Hat

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I'm sorry, maybe I'm just of the wrong generation but surely everyone who uses social media knows that it's a cesspit. Players must know what they are exposing themselves to if they go public with their accounts. If you can't take vile abuse from nonces, scumbags and vermin, then just stay away from it. It can't be allowed to be an excuse for playing badly. It wasn't long ago that the mantra was 'prove them wrong on the pitch'. (All that said, anyone who gives racist etc abuse should be hunted down and prosecuted.)

I should point out that it’s not just the victim of social media abuse who reads the bile. It’ll also be their family and friends. It’ll affect them too. Sergi has 23,000 followers on Twitter who are interested in what he has to say. The idea that the answer to abuse by cowards is to withdraw from one of the world‘s most popular social media platforms, rather than taking action against the abusers, is a strange one. As is posting multiple laughing emojis when talking about the victim of such abuse.
 

Shamrock_Bee

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There was nothing wrong with Canos's performance tonight! But I agree that CN/VJ together is not necessarily the problem.

He had so much heart and passion and you can see he loves Brentford and really cares. The problem is he has no options when he gets himself into good positions and sometimes panics, his return from possession wouldn't be what it should be for a winger playing on a promotion chasing team, that may be due to having no Rico overlapping to help him so he gets confused under pressure.

I've thought he could be a very effective wing back, with his runs from deep providing serious supply to a front two of Toney and Forss; if he was told use your pace and your aim is crossing to a front two it could work as it would provide more structure to his possession.
 

Wise old Bee

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It's all falling into place as many have said. We hobble into the POs in 5th or 6th place then win them. We had a holiday booked so I would have missed the final, but not now obviously. Also, spectators will likely be allowed in so it will be no more than we deserve after missing out in, in every respect, in last year's final. Injured players will have returned giving TF a full squad to choose from. Face makeup and red balloons?
 

BEEcool

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No. It's the abuse on social media. Cowards bullying and abusing platers and staff from the club. The difference between letting off steam down the pub and on social media is that everyone cam see it and hear it. Not just your mates. So it has a much wider impact. Be nice. Criticise the perofmrnace, not the people.
I agree with your performance/people point but, whilst I’m not here to defend anyone dishing out abuse on social media, I’m not sure the pub analogy is correct.

Is social media not just a MASSIVE pub itself where everyone (the good, the bad and the ugly) gather? In that ‘social media pub’ there’ll always be gobshites with lots to say but if you’re a player, then unless what they’re saying is ‘crossing the line’ you’re probably better of just avoiding them, like you would by not going to a real pub after a game.

The big difference however is when the gobshite’s start @‘ing players/individuals in that social media pub. In the real pub, it’d the equivalent of seeking out a player, tapping them on the shoulder and saying whatever it is you’ve got to say direct to their face. And I dare say the majority of those giving abuse would be a lot less brave in that scenario.
 

condorman

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I actually don't think it's a problem playing CN and JV together; I actually quite like it and it could add a bit of steel for the big play off games if we make them. I'd play them with Josh in front. The problem at the minute is whilst it's not personal, the full back's strength is not overlapping so we have no deep runners and our wingers are out of form. I'd like Fosu and Canos to start as wing backs and play Toney and Forss upfront with CN and JV controlling the midfield and providing cover. Jensen could play as the attacking midfielder until Josh and Rico come back and it can reviewed again. Our full backs are currently very defensively minded which makes people think JV and CN together is the problem, I don't think that is the case.

I agree with this. Or Bryan with Toney instead of Forss, he had his best recent game up front and he the pace to get onto flicks
 

hitchinb

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I should point out that it’s not just the victim of social media abuse who reads the bile. It’ll also be their family and friends. It’ll affect them too. Sergi has 23,000 followers on Twitter who are interested in what he has to say. The idea that the answer to abuse by cowards is to withdraw from one of the world‘s most popular social media platforms, rather than taking action against the abusers, is a strange one. As is posting multiple laughing emojis when talking about the victim of such abuse.
I specifically said that those who use racist abuse etc should be hunted down. I take your point about family and friends. And, yes, the laughing emoji types are sickos.
 

JCMcBee

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AFC Bournemouth on 65. If the worst case happens and we drop out of the playoffs, does TF keep his job?
.....i guess it's a manc thing....stirring the pot.
 

Voice from the Braemar

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Wow.

It’s not the fault of the abuser. It’s the fault of the abused for reading it.
to be fair i think he had a point.......social media is full of weirdos who think their tough behind a keyboard and put outright rubbish and abuse on knowing that they will never have to answer for it.....these freaks would never dream of saying it to someone face to face so if i was a player id take it all with a pinch of salt as you just know they are social freaks just trying to get their 3 minutes of being noticed for the first time ever in there sorry friendless lives.......it probably is an age thing......im old school....theres lot worse things that can happen.....players who are a bit sensitive really should avoid social media for the best
 

Shamrock_Bee

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I agree with this. Or Bryan with Toney instead of Forss, he had his best recent game up front and he the pace to get onto flicks

Good shout actually that could be an effective front two and help with Bryan's confidence. You'd imagine Ivan would create a lot of chances for him with flick ons.
 
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