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Final Score Bees 3 - 2 Bristol City (Canos, Toney, Ghoddos)

gbems92

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Edwards the left winger looked very useful and at times dangerous last night and as a youngster maybe we should be looking to recruit players like him, not slagging Canos off as I thought he's been on it for the last few games
looked okay but think he was trying too hard and blowing out his ass 20 minutes in. We had alot of joy down our right side
 

Gee Bee

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I agree , a small chink that hopefully will go away , we have been fine on crosses generally
I think we need to get some perspective, yes we had a couple of shaky games, Pinnock in particular, but generally we deal well with crosses rest of season. Also need to give credit for quality of cross last night, which wasn't one you could just go and head away, it was a low well delivered cross that Pinnock failed to maintain goal side of with Vyner at far post.
 

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Great play last night........the only thing I would like to see is Ivan and someone else, stay forward when we defend, to pick up the clearances.
Just seems to be too congested when we defend, leading to mistakes.
We know forwards can make the silly tackle now and again, we don't need it in the penalty area.
Plus with two hovering around the centre circle, it makes the need for the opposition to leave a couple back as well.

Other than the above, over the moon and cannot wait to get the others back, TF is going to have some difficult decisions.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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Well, in those 5 minutes he could’ve pulled a muscle etc etc. As mentioned above, subs are made with certain analytical stats behind them. Just trust the system. Otherwise, if they didn’t sub him, we could be without an important left back for several weeks due to a muscle injury that could’ve been prevented.
5 mins, this is nonsense imo, if we are that worried by injury then 20 mins makes more sense.
 

abeeforever

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You’re allowed to scout the opposition. Several scouts can be seen and accommodated at games.
Is this a Club rule, FA, or Gov.UK as It's hardly an "Essential Occupation" in these very trying times, it's a leisure industry, and what with Gyms, Golf etc not operating this appears to fly in the face of all Gov advise, or have Football Clubs been exempt from the rules? Just curious, that's all.
 

wanderer paul

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5 mins, this is nonsense imo, if we are that worried by injury then 20 mins makes more sense.
It isn’t nonsense. I suggest you let the analytic people know you’re views, they’ll soon put you right. This isn’t the 1960’s anymore. This is the modern game. Each player wears a tracker. Each player is monitored. If they show fatigue, no matter what time it is, they’ll be subbed to protect them. Whether you like it or not.
 

wanderer paul

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Is this a Club rule, FA, or Gov.UK as It's hardly an "Essential Occupation" in these very trying times, it's a leisure industry, and what with Gyms, Golf etc not operating this appears to fly in the face of all Gov advise, or have Football Clubs been exempt from the rules? Just curious, that's all.
Clubs are allowed to scout the opposition. 🤷‍♂️
 

HantsBee

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I understand that Jensen has the "marmite" effect on here but just look how many goals we have scored this season where he has instigated the move.
He is a current international (albeit with Denmark) which shows that managers/coaches at all levels see the positives in him. :sorted:

I am sure there are many teams in this division that would like him on their books.
 

AB

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Great play last night........the only thing I would like to see is Ivan and someone else, stay forward when we defend, to pick up the clearances.
Just seems to be too congested when we defend, leading to mistakes.
We know forwards can make the silly tackle now and again, we don't need it in the penalty area.
Plus with two hovering around the centre circle, it makes the need for the opposition to leave a couple back as well.

Other than the above, over the moon and cannot wait to get the others back, TF is going to have some difficult decisions.
Ivan is used as a key part of our defending team for set pieces. He takes pride in doing it well and it’s a big part of our overall approach to the game which is paying dividends. Leaving him up top is a bit Warburton.
 

AB

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I understand that Jensen has the "marmite" effect on here but just look how many goals we have scored this season where he has instigated the move.
He is a current international (albeit with Denmark) which shows that managers/coaches at all levels see the positives in him. :sorted:

I am sure there are many teams in this division that would like him on their books.
 

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Oceanbee

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It was posted on here, somewhere, re the subs and reasons why.

All the players are tracked. Analytics can tell when a player is becoming fatigued and then this causes muscle injuries late in games.

Better to be safe than to lose Rico Henry for 4-6 weeks with a pulled hamstring or such like.

Subs are made for a reason. Just accept it’s for the players benefit. Even if it seems to have an affect on the game.
Just to add that the sports fitness vests that players wear can measure all sorts of dynamics including this -

"One figure the club medical professionals look at a lot is step balance - which assesses if you’re putting more weight on one foot than the other. If a player is carrying a knock, for example, they might unconsciously compensate and adjust without even realising, That can shift the balance to 45-55, and make any injury much worse."

The other point about these vests is that because they carry a GPS tracker system, why can’t they connect this up to VAR.
A minor modification of the offside rule would be incorporated, but basically your player vest could instantly ping out the signal as to whether you were ahead of the opponent, including your player number, and into the ref’s ear; or at least straight on to the pitchside VAR screen.

With all the modern technology available, an instant reading of offside from a player’s vest would speed everything up.
This process of saying his left bootlace was offside is making the game ridiculous.

Yes, it would be about the upper body positioning but better this, and everyone knows that, than games being held up for 3 or 4 minutes.
 
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West Wilts Bee

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Ah, thought he was a youth product!:LOL: Still, think he would be some player under our system.:pop:
Thing is at 7.2mill you would expect something for your money, must admit I quite liked him , where did they sign him from?
 

Voice from the Braemar

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A humongous win in the grand scheme of things...I said before if we win it we will win the league and I’m certain that WILL happen....the Brentford bottlers rep will finally be buried in May....believe it ;)
 

WARFIELD BEE

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It isn’t nonsense. I suggest you let the analytic people know you’re views, they’ll soon put you right. This isn’t the 1960’s anymore. This is the modern game. Each player wears a tracker. Each player is monitored. If they show fatigue, no matter what time it is, they’ll be subbed to protect them. Whether you like it or not.
I bow to your greater knowledge, all I know is taking Rico off and shuffling 3 players doesn't usually end well, leave it at that.
 

wanderer paul

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I bow to your greater knowledge, all I know is taking Rico off and shuffling 3 players doesn't usually end well, leave it at that.
I knew a thread was on here somewhere.........found it. Here's the info re substitutions & why?

 

Mr Cynical

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That is genuinely surprising - he plays for a very decent champ side so expect that kind of forward output. Defensive stats from last night seem decent with 4 tackles and 2 interceptions, but still feel we can definitely do better than him.
I'm not surprised at all, thought he had a decent game last night and played some really good passes, his movement was very good too, for at least one of the goals I think he went wide behind Fosu to drag defenders away, allowing Fosu to run in. I guess people see what they want to see at times, that's why we use the stats a lot, takes the emotion out of it.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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I knew a thread was on here somewhere.........found it. Here's the info re substitutions & why?

I bow to your greater knowledge, don't need to say it twice do I?
 

wanderer paul

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I bow to your greater knowledge, don't need to say it twice do I?
I tried to help you by pointing you towards a post which was gleaned from the Club to alleviate any fears, that you as to why we make subs when we do.

If that’s your attitude, then bore off.

Educate yourself.....
 

WARFIELD BEE

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I tried to help you by pointing you towards a post which was gleaned from the Club to alleviate any fears, that you as to why we make subs when we do.

If that’s your attitude, then bore off.

Educate yourself.....
Charming after accepting your observations and information twice.
 

TG51

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I don't think subbing Rico was an issue. We weren't really under any extra pressure after he went off. It's just a sloppy ball from Ethan, as jlove says he was probably a little thrown by being on the left again and just got his angles wrong.
This was similar to the blackburn game in that a player made a bad choice or executed badly to cost a goal. I dont think a manager can plan around an unexpected error.
 

Beeswaxnees

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I actually read a little about this after Klopp mentioned it. It's basically about muscle injury prevention. The idea is that those 5 minutes at the end of a game are the most dangerous for players who could be close to muscle fatigue. So if you have a chance to remove them from the game, you are drastically reducing their chance of injury, not just by a "marginal gains" perspective, but by a relatively large %age.

I'll be honest, I don't fully understand it, but there must be some sports science behind this considering the teams that rely most on analytics and science to do their work (see also England rugby) make these subs regularly.
Very good point stomalomalus, there is not much to understand, it seems logical to me that the last 5-10 minutes of a game would be the most dangerous for players getting close to muscle fatigue especially those players who play nearly every game.
 

Beeswaxnees

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That is genuinely surprising - he plays for a very decent champ side so expect that kind of forward output. Defensive stats from last night seem decent with 4 tackles and 2 interceptions, but still feel we can definitely do better than him.
Very harsh. I thought he played well yesterday and have been playing well most of the season, he brings quality to the team. When we go up he will be a very important player for us in the Premier league where quality is needed and where he be more suited.
 

Beeswaxnees

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Just to add that the sports fitness vests that players wear can measure all sorts of dynamics including this -

"One figure the club medical professionals look at a lot is step balance - which assesses if you’re putting more weight on one foot than the other. If a player is carrying a knock, for example, they might unconsciously compensate and adjust without even realising, That can shift the balance to 45-55, and make any injury much worse."

The other point about these vests is that because they carry a GPS tracker system, why can’t they connect this up to VAR.
A minor modification of the offside rule would be incorporated, but basically your player vest could instantly ping out the signal as to whether you were ahead of the opponent, including your player number, and into the ref’s ear; or at least straight on to the pitchside VAR screen.

With all the modern technology available, an instant reading of offside from a player’s vest would speed everything up.
This process of saying his left bootlace was offside is making the game ridiculous.

Yes, it would be about the upper body positioning but better this, and everyone knows that, than games being held up for 3 or 4 minutes.
Not sure if that would work unless the player have a tracker on all limbs, nevertheless very interest idea.
 

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Not sure if that would work unless the player have a tracker on all limbs, nevertheless very interest idea.
Modern running technology lets you see if you're just one side of your body more than the other, so I very much suspect these elite athletes will have access to the same tech. Essentially, if you can see that a player is beginning to use their left side more than the right, you can summarise there is likely to be more strain placed on the left leg, thus increasing the chances of injury.
 

AB

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Modern running technology lets you see if you're just one side of your body more than the other, so I very much suspect these elite athletes will have access to the same tech. Essentially, if you can see that a player is beginning to use their left side more than the right, you can summarise there is likely to be more strain placed on the left leg, thus increasing the chances of injury.
I noticed recently the Apple Health app on iPhone measures “double support”- how much time while walking you are resting on both legs . I’d expect that to be much more accurately measured using the specialist kit the players wear but even the iPhone one shows variation as I get more tired.
 

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Well, in those 5 minutes he could’ve pulled a muscle etc etc. As mentioned above, subs are made with certain analytical stats behind them. Just trust the system. Otherwise, if they didn’t sub him, we could be without an important left back for several weeks due to a muscle injury that could’ve been prevented.
By using analytics to decide when Rico needs to be substituted, couldnt we use those same analytics to decide 10 minutes earlier to instruct Rico to stop making the forward runs and that way he could last until the end of the game
 

AB

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By using analytics to decide when Rico needs to be substituted, couldnt we use those same analytics to decide 10 minutes earlier to instruct Rico to stop making the forward runs and that way he could last until the end of the game
I’d rather players were rested off the pitch than instructed to stop doing the things they’re needed for while on it!
 

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By using analytics to decide when Rico needs to be substituted, couldnt we use those same analytics to decide 10 minutes earlier to instruct Rico to stop making the forward runs and that way he could last until the end of the game
I think the issue is having him on the pitch increases his chances of injury. You can tell him to stop pressing forward, but what's to stop their forwards bombing forward and Rico having to chase back? The easiest and best way to mitigate the risk is to put him back on the bench with an ice pack and protein shake!
 

HaylingBee74

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Rico‘s unforced substitutions:-
all home league games:-
vs Blackburn 81 mins, remaining time 9 mins + injury time, goals conceded in that time 1
vs Reading 45 mins, rem time 45 + inj, goals conceded 1
vs Wycombe 84 mins, rem time 6 + inj, goals conceded 0
vs Bristol C 86 mins, rem time 4 + inj, goals conceded 1

so 75% (3 of 4) of the time we have conceded even though twice there was less than 10 minutes remaining


This isnt a statistic that can continue like this, can it?
 

Vid

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In days gone after 90 minutes extra time meant players dropping like fly's with cramp. I think it was Liverpool under Shankley who were said to train so hard during the week that the game was like having a day off. I suppose is a compromise.
 

Alex

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By using analytics to decide when Rico needs to be substituted, couldnt we use those same analytics to decide 10 minutes earlier to instruct Rico to stop making the forward runs and that way he could last until the end of the game
They could instruct him to go and sit by the corner flag too, but I'd rather the players were taken off and replaced with others who can keep doing what rest of the team is doing. It's also good experience for the players coming on.
 

nick logan

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Rico‘s unforced substitutions:-
all home league games:-
vs Blackburn 81 mins, remaining time 9 mins + injury time, goals conceded in that time 1
vs Reading 45 mins, rem time 45 + inj, goals conceded 1
vs Wycombe 84 mins, rem time 6 + inj, goals conceded 0
vs Bristol C 86 mins, rem time 4 + inj, goals conceded 1

so 75% (3 of 4) of the time we have conceded even though twice there was less than 10 minutes remaining


This isnt a statistic that can continue like this, can it?
taking him off didn't cause the offside goal against Bristol or the lucky deflection Blackburn scored
 

wanderer paul

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Rico‘s unforced substitutions:-
all home league games:-
vs Blackburn 81 mins, remaining time 9 mins + injury time, goals conceded in that time 1
vs Reading 45 mins, rem time 45 + inj, goals conceded 1
vs Wycombe 84 mins, rem time 6 + inj, goals conceded 0
vs Bristol C 86 mins, rem time 4 + inj, goals conceded 1

so 75% (3 of 4) of the time we have conceded even though twice there was less than 10 minutes remaining


This isnt a statistic that can continue like this, can it?
It doesn’t matter what you think or what your stats say. All that matters is Rico is managed properly by those in the know at the Club watching his realtime stats. Not going back over matches saying this and that. If only etc etc.
 

Gazza Bee

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Rico‘s unforced substitutions:-
all home league games:-
vs Blackburn 81 mins, remaining time 9 mins + injury time, goals conceded in that time 1
vs Reading 45 mins, rem time 45 + inj, goals conceded 1
vs Wycombe 84 mins, rem time 6 + inj, goals conceded 0
vs Bristol C 86 mins, rem time 4 + inj, goals conceded 1

so 75% (3 of 4) of the time we have conceded even though twice there was less than 10 minutes remaining


This isnt a statistic that can continue like this, can it?
Nothing to say we wouldn't have conceded if he was still on the pitch? Both late ones were unlucky - a deflection and a clearly offside goal
 

The Pipe

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I would far rather the medical team monitor the player and if there are signs of fatigue then the player is hooked rather than risk injury. The stats highlighted of goals conceded in his absence are probably not a direct correlation, certainly against City it was due to unforced errors.

with the amount of games and the injuries we are already carrying we have to view the medical information as probably the most important statistic available to Thomas. Klopp this week referred to how tired his players were and how injuries were effecting them

With the number of injured players we currently have I think the coaches and medical analysts are doing a fantastic job in managing the players fitness levels
 

EarleyBee

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Rico‘s unforced substitutions:-
all home league games:-
vs Blackburn 81 mins, remaining time 9 mins + injury time, goals conceded in that time 1
vs Reading 45 mins, rem time 45 + inj, goals conceded 1
vs Wycombe 84 mins, rem time 6 + inj, goals conceded 0
vs Bristol C 86 mins, rem time 4 + inj, goals conceded 1

so 75% (3 of 4) of the time we have conceded even though twice there was less than 10 minutes remaining


This isnt a statistic that can continue like this, can it?
How many goals do you reckon we will concede if he breaks down and is out for four weeks?
 

HaylingBee74

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How many goals do you reckon we will concede if he breaks down and is out for four weeks?
I wasnt saying play him all game, when he needs substituting. I was suggesting before getting to that point, stop him marauding forward like he does 20 or 25 minutes before the end of a game, saving his energy for defending and that way he can last 90 minutes and he doesn’t need replacing. Use the information better than we currently do. Why is that a bad idea?
 

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Ivan is used as a key part of our defending team for set pieces. He takes pride in doing it well and it’s a big part of our overall approach to the game which is paying dividends. Leaving him up top is a bit Warburton.
Not saying he does not take pride..... I am saying the box looks congested and leads to mistakes!
Ok, leave Ivan in there , leave Sergi or another outside the box and...... sod Warburton !
 

AB

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Not saying he does not take pride..... I am saying the box looks congested and leads to mistakes!
Ok, leave Ivan in there , leave Sergi or another outside the box and...... sod Warburton !
Maybe leave Ghoddos up there. Though I think Toney actually headed it on for Brizzle's first goal on Wednesday...
 

hatfieldbee

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Not saying he does not take pride..... I am saying the box looks congested and leads to mistakes!
Ok, leave Ivan in there , leave Sergi or another outside the box and...... sod Warburton !
We do tend break out very quickly from our own penalty area, after corners. Just like when the oppo has kick off we move from the half way line, very quickly.
 

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