Bish's irony (merged threads)

[Wee Dave]

Well said. You tell him, me

Seconded.

 

[SC]

If, like me, you agree that last season was our worst on the pitch since W£bb's departure, you would expect the crowd for the first home game to be lower.

Did you know that on our first Saturday home game last season, we got 4,846 after 2 consecutive wins away to Huddersfield and at home to Bristol City on the Tuesday.

Talk of losing 1,500 fans is bollox. People don't come to games in August because they're on holiday or at weddings or family barbeque's.

Get your facts straight if you want to put forward a valid argument.

For our first saturday home game last season we got 5356 and I would suggest Peterboro had more fans than Oldham.

Get your facts straight if you want to put forward a valid argument

 

[nocoat]

TWO full time wages

Its not that much if you do the correct maths.

 

[D_Block]

Get Wallys mate Vinnie Jones to make a donation to buy a player
and then use the money to to pay off Downes simple !

 

[RitchBee]

If I win the lottery it will give me the greatest pleasure to hand them both a cheque and to tell them to p**s off. :banana:

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Re: Re: Ideas On How To Pay Wally & GT Off

That is either utter bullshit or utter madness - if that is what we are paying them per year.

If the management team at this football club are on £160k+ per year between them then it is no surprise we need gates of 5,500 to attempt to break even.

Bearing in mind they are at leat 1 month into their contracts too I truely hope you are joking or misinformed Bish.

 

[nocoat]

thats NOT how I read Bish comments


he said to pay off WD AND GT would take around 80k... surely

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Re: TWO full time wages

Its not that much if you do the correct maths.

It's around £1,500 per week each.

That is too much in my book.

 

[nocoat]

agreed if thats the case, but see my point above

 

[mhead bee]

I still can't believe that by phoning a number and offering to hold a bucket is going to save us from relegation.

Are some of you chaps so blind that you can't see that all the hard work and money collected is going to be pi55ed up the wall if we are relegated?

This constant "can't get rid of the manager" crap is going to cost us the club. If he can't be removed, the person who gave him a new contract needs to have a serious performance related 1 to 1 with him and find out why he is trying to relegate us.

In fact, no don't bother, I have a better idea, let him carry on relegating us , phone this number and help raise some more cash for him to waste on salaries for people like jeremy bloody beadle!

 

[West Ealing Bee]

thats NOT how I read Bish comments


he said to pay off WD AND GT would take around 80k... surely

I read it that one was on £75k and the other was on £85k, taking away what we have already paid them.

If Bish meant to post £75k-£85k then my point is obviously pointless.

 

[Wee Dave]

thats NOT how I read Bish comments


he said to pay off WD AND GT would take around 80k... surely

That's how I read it as well.

It's still a lot. :grey:

 

[nocoat]

just re-read, and I will hold my hands up as wrong, you have two have interpreted it how it should have been.... in which case ... I HOPE THATS UTTER BULLSHIT!! :mad2:

Please clear it up for us Bish...

 

[nocoat]

That's how I read it as well.

It's still a lot. :grey:

no it you look again he says 75 k AND 85 K

 

[mhead bee]

Re: Re: Why I am Staying Away From GP and Sending My Kids To Heckle Wally

will every supporter please read this and more importantly understand what is being said.

I can't be bothered actually, bish has started 335 threads in one day all saying the same thing, then he accuses others of being keyboard warriors

We are going to get relegated if the manager stays..it is as cold and simple as that.. any amount of fund raising and bu activity is going to be wasted along with the constant "up the bees" flag waving if we go down..why can't the coffee be smelt!

 

[West Ealing Bee]

just re-read, and I will hold my hands up as wrong, you have two have interpreted it how it should have been.... in which case ... I HOPE THATS UTTER BULLSHIT!! :mad2:

Please clear it up for us Bish...

Yes, someone please clear this up.

Exact figures are not required but please tell me we aren't paying £3k a week to this management team.

 

[mhead bee]

Luton - What I am trying to say we have no money NOW to pay them. We can`t pay them £50k because we will lose £50k+ if we go down.
WE HAVE NO MONEY NOW!!!

Bu is keeping the club afloat...just.

If we only lost £50k to go down it wouldn't be an issue..

You can take a third of total income off for home games as we will not sell out to the likes of QPR, sheff wed etc., and our crowds would drop to 3000. The only reason we didn't get 3K last time we went down is because we got a new owner and a stack of new players and optimism.

 

[Turnstile Bee]

Re: Re: Re: Why I am Staying Away From GP and Sending My Kids To Heckle Wally

I can't be bothered actually, bish has started 335 threads in one day all saying the same thing, then he accuses others of being keyboard warriors

We are going to get relegated if the manager stays..it is as cold and simple as that.. any amount of fund raising and bu activity is going to be wasted along with the constant "up the bees" flag waving if we go down..why can't the coffee be smelt!

I think he was asking you to read what Baz Bee said, not what Bish said, anyway!

 

[Wee Dave]

I sincerely doubt and hope beyond hope that GT gets £75K... and if Wally's on £85K there's more chance of him accidentally flushing himself down the bog than resigning.

I presume Bish meant £80K altogether and made a typo. I hope....

 

[mhead bee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I am Staying Away From GP and Sending My Kids To Heckle Wally

I think he was asking you to read what Baz Bee said, not what Bish said, anyway!

Was he?

OK!

 

[mhead bee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I am Staying Away From GP and Sending My Kids To Heckle Wally

I think he was asking you to read what Baz Bee said, not what Bish said, anyway!

no you're wrong..I just looked at it again.

S you haven't bothered reading it either then

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I sincerely doubt and hope beyond hope that GT gets £75K... and if Wally's on £85K there's more chance of him accidentally flushing himself down the bog than resigning.

I presume Bish meant £80K altogether and made a typo. I hope....

I agree, but Bish is the man with the figures................

 

[Turnstile Bee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I am Staying Away From GP and Sending My Kids To Heckle Wally

no you're wrong..I just looked at it again.

S you haven't bothered reading it either then

Apologies....Was Dave who asked everyone to read what Baz said....actually a sensible post in a thread that Bish has started 30 times....No, I didnt bother reading what Bish says!

Out of interest, Bish, were you one of the people who told everyone to give Uncle Ron a break because he knew what he was doing and by shouting down him were we demoralizing the team? Well, look where that got us! What shall we do, wait until we are relegated and then start shouting? It took lots of people on here until we were £4.5m in debt to realise that Noade$ was like, so why don't you tell us when we are allowed to start worrying about the club?

 

[Boston Bee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I am Staying Away From GP and Sending My Kids To Heckle Wally

Bish deserves a neutral's defense: A quick scan of the archives indicates that Bish was never fooled by the SP and that in fact he was ready to pitch invade to make his point to Unka Ron.

Out of interest, Bish, were you one of the people who told everyone to give Uncle Ron a break because he knew what he was doing and by shouting down him were we demoralizing the team?

 

[Ace Face]

To pay off the contracts for both would be approx £75 - 80k in total not for each contract - this is my estimate.

If you really think we could afford to pay double that you need to take a reality check. We are potless!!

 

[nocoat]

Well bish... we didnt.. but I came around to others way of thinking that your English implied as much. (pun)

 

[Nick Hester]

I think you're all mad?

Wally I would think is on no more than £40,000 a year.

WHO are you all exactly proposing to take this job then?

I'm not one of his biggest fans but what is the man expected to do with what he has?

I bet there aren't many people that will queue up for the job if you get rid of him?

I personally feel that although I am as depressed as everyone at the way the team perform and the state the Club is in but this witch hunt for Downes is unacceptable.

Blame Noades and Noades only for the mess we are FORCED with. The word FORCED being the most important part of this post?

Everyone seems to have great ideas about how we can push on etc but nobody seems to be able to work around the finances?

All those who are boycotting the club at this time should go and support Man Utd. Glory hunt there?

You start as a Brentford fan you should end a Brentford fan.
You all knew from day one that supporting Brentford is hard work with few ups and many downs (no pun intended).

If we boycott the Club dies END OF.

I am not happy about things around the place but so many have wise words without action or the failure to engage a brain with their keyboard..

Its OUR club. Support it.

Ask yourself this question;

'What would YOU do on a Saturday when Brentford no longer exists?'

Signing off until the madness passes..some of my fellow supporters shame me when you can't face the facts that we are skint and without a chance in hell of attracting better players..

Blame those who have inflicted the injury, not those who are trying to patch it up the best they can..

 

[nocoat]

?All those who are boycotting the club at this time should go and support Man Utd. Glory hunt there?

You start as a Brentford fan you should end a Brentford fan.
You all knew from day one that supporting Brentford is hard work with few ups and many downs (no pun intended).

If we boycott the Club dies END OF.

:bound:

 

[Boston Bee]

I think you're all mad?

But you're not sure? I think you have to be?

Wally I would think is on no more than £40,000 a year.

WHO are you all exactly proposing to take this job then?

It seems impossible to believe that young, energetic, determined, ambitious managers do not exist that wouldn't consider this club and this situation a fantastic 'springboard' post. Cotterill springs immediately to mind.

I'm not one of his biggest fans but what is the man expected to do with what he has?

Play to the players strengths, use the talent he has most effectively, organize set-pieces in practice, encourage not beat-down young players. All decent suggestions I think.

I bet there aren't many people that will queue up for the job if you get rid of him?

Bet you're very wrong. See above.

I personally feel that although I am as depressed as everyone at the way the team perform and the state the Club is in but this witch hunt for Downes is unacceptable.

Just so I know, how many losses more would you characterise as "acceptable" (as we're 5 wins in last 25). Should we wait until Christmas for signs of life or hold off until relegation?

Blame Noades and Noades only for the mess we are FORCED with. The word FORCED being the most important part of this post?

Don't think anyone on here isn't aware that we're deep, deep, deep in the brown stuff. Deep. If they don't realize it, Bish sets them straight!

Everyone seems to have great ideas about how we can push on etc but nobody seems to be able to work around the finances?

I think the argument is, "can't change, finances just absolutely do not allow it, just have to take the chance that Wally can right what appears to be a listing ship" vs. "relegation and accompanying attendance drops this season are financially ruinous, so a hard financial decision has to be made for the long-term good". I am increasingly in the second camp.

All those who are boycotting the club at this time should go and support Man Utd. Glory hunt there?

You start as a Brentford fan you should end a Brentford fan.
You all knew from day one that supporting Brentford is hard work with few ups and many downs (no pun intended).

If we boycott the Club dies END OF.

Agreed. Bee 'til I die.

I am not happy about things around the place but so many have wise words without action or the failure to engage a brain with their keyboard.

It is what happen when you ask for everyone's opinion (like a**holes, as they say).

Its OUR club. Support it.

Ask yourself this question;

'What would YOU do on a Saturday when Brentford no longer exists?'

Not even able to contemplate it. Would be too great a loss.

Signing off until the madness passes..some of my fellow supporters shame me when you can't face the facts that we are skint and without a chance in hell of attracting better players..

Blame those who have inflicted the injury, not those who are trying to patch it up the best they can..

Think we know we're skint. The nature of loan players is you don't pay 'em. That we can't attract 'em is part of the concern, actually.

Don't remember anyone, or certainly not many, here getting on BU/BIAS (save for the mysterious role/position of Mr. Rogers), or on the players (most here seem to me to think they're better than they've been showing).

 

[West Ealing Bee]

To pay off the contracts for both would be approx £75 - 80k in total not for each contract - this is my estimate.

If you really think we could afford to pay double that you need to take a reality check. We are potless!!

I am fully aware that we are potless Bish and I did not expect to see the figures that our management team were on £75k each, but that is the way you wrote it.

No-one is under any illusions about what we can afford, or they shouldn't be, which is why I wanted some clarification that it was a typo and not a huge error from the men who write the contracts.

It still doesn't make it any easier to pay off, unfortunately.

 

[nick logan]

I think you're all mad?


I personally feel that although I am as depressed as everyone at the way the team perform and the state the Club is in but this witch hunt for Downes is unacceptable.


Everyone seems to have great ideas about how we can push on etc but nobody seems to be able to work around the finances?



You start as a Brentford fan you should end a Brentford fan.
You all knew from day one that supporting Brentford is hard work with few ups and many downs (no pun intended).

If we boycott the Club dies END OF.



Its OUR club. Support it.

'

Signing off until the madness passes..some of my fellow supporters shame me when you can't face the facts that we are skint and without a chance in hell of attracting better players..

Blame those who have inflicted the injury, not those who are trying to patch it up the best they can..

well said mate

 

[Nick Hester]

well said mate

Thanks Nick,

A person who travels to EVERY game and someone who's views should be respected..

At last I have the knowing that I'm not the only one who have these thoughts..

 

[Scratchy]

For the most part I totally agree with Greenholme's views.Those who boycott the club when we are in our hour of need are helping to worsen the club's situation which will ultimately result in death for this club. No-one wants that.

Downes has made far too many mistakes since the turn of 2003.I am personally fed up of his excuses and he needs to correct those errors pretty damm quickly.However,and it galls me to say this,sacking him right now is not the answer!!He needs an opportunity to turn things around.The main priority is to stay in this god-awful division this season.End of story!

If he can't do this(and do this quickly) then he needs to do the honourable thing,hold up his hands and resign from this club.

This is the time to stand up and be counted folks.Those that are not around are helping to kill this club!

 

[Wee Dave]

sacking him right now is not

possible.

He can only resign. We can't afford to sack him.

Even he must realise that any more performances like Saturday's and he can't expect to be taken seriously any longer.

 

[Voice from the Braemar]

some good points from both 'sides'..................but the really worrying thing is unless we have a team which is going to win a few games sooner rather than later we will defo lose a large percentage of our already dwindling support...........people will not turn up to watch that rubbish we saw on saturday week after week...................and surely we will be losing more money from lower crowds than taking a chance and changing the manager(if needed) and maybe seeing things improve on the pitch

i say gamble and hope it works


still, im still giving him 3 more games before i make a decision...............how grascious of me eh??!

 

[Ace Face]

Voice - WE HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY WALLY & GT OFF!!

It doesn`t matter if we are going to lose more fans if he stays. We have got no spare cash laying around and we cannot borrow more.

 

[Edmundo]

i say gamble and hope it works

How do you gamble without the stake money?

 

[Boston Bee]

So when the time comes, someone will have to, shall we say, persuade WD to leave.

:box: :suspect:

 

[Hungerford Bee]

Voice - WE HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY WALLY & GT OFF!!

It doesn`t matter if we are going to lose more fans if he stays. We have got no spare cash laying around and we cannot borrow more.

So what is being said is that no matter how dire the situation becomes under the current management we have no choice but to stick with them

Who negotiated that?

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Voice - WE HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY WALLY & GT OFF!!

It doesn`t matter if we are going to lose more fans if he stays.

You can't really mean that Bish.

Of course it matters, there comes a point where the number of paying customers dwindles to the point where the economic vibility of the club is threatened even more than by crippling interest payments.

The exec has a business plan predicated upon an expected amount of gate receipts. If this falls, or is missed significantly, where does the money come from to pay the players?

If you read my posts, I have deliberately not called for the present incumbent to be sacked, I have called for changes to tactics which are clearly naive at best and destructive at worst both to the morale of a young team and to a fan base that we have all tried so damned hard to maintain and build in the face of, seemingly at times, overwhelming, odds.

The alternative of course, would be to raise receipts by fleecing the paying customer (just as that POS Livingstone has just done by raising bus fares in outer London by 40%). However we are competing for a limited leisure pound so that is never going to be a realistic option.

So, rather than accept a 'damned if we do, damned if we don't' philosophy, hard decisions are going to have to be made, the first of which is to try and turn the situation around using exisiting resources.

This must be time-limited, in that any sustainable improvement must be achieved by a given date. Failing this or failing to achieve this target must mean that resources are changed, else there will be no business within which to improve the process.

 

[Ace Face]

All I am trying to say - and badly - is that we gave them a contract and we cannot afford to pay that up and get a new manager in.

Of course it matters the crowd dwindling - but what I am saying is that a loss of revenue will not magically produce the funds to pay off Wally & GT and get a new team in. The loss of revenue means even less of a chance of paying Wally & GT.

If we were getting 7000 gates - we might be able to afford it.

I am not saying I have all the answers all I am saying is because we are skint, we have to stick with Wally. There is no other choice.

Unless the supporters can come up with £75k approx.

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Point made Bish.

As I said I would rather the situation could be turned around using existing resources.

However there comes a point whn you have to accept, in laymans terms, that you can't make a silk purse out of a sows' ear.

If we maintain depressed gates (by say 1000 each match) then the cost of removing the failing resource is fully justified.

This is course is complicated by three factors.

1. It assumes the money can be found to remove the failing resource.

2. It then takes time for the 'lost fans' to be recovered, I doubt they will reappear overnight.

3.It ssumes that the new resource will be more successful than the current resource.

No one said that is was going to be easy.

 

[The Joker]

2. It then takes time for the 'lost fans' to be recovered, I doubt they will reappear overnight.

I suspect they would if we appointed a "name" manager like Tony Adams.

Not that I am advocating such a strategy. Cue opening of new can of worms as we all debate again the merits of appointing a "name" manager who has no experience, never mind the potential cost of doing so!

 

[Voice from the Braemar]

I suspect they would if we appointed a "name" manager like Tony Adams.

Not that I am advocating such a strategy. Cue opening of new can of worms as we all debate again the merits of appointing a "name" manager who has no experience, never mind the potential cost of doing so!

why sack Dodgin

 

[Thomas Bathurst]

I think it will all become academic if we are hammered in our next 3 games, in a similar fashion to the last 3. Surely nobody, not even Wally, would have the shame to not resign after 6 heavy defeats, and the appaling end to last season?

However, we aren't going to get a hiding in the next 3 games - we are going to turn this piss poor form around. Up the bees

 

[Baz Bee]

I stand by the contents of my earlier post in this thread. Downes could easily be dismissed under capability procedures. It just needs someone with the balls to do it. That is what is wrong with football today, there are too many frightened individuals who will not (or probably cannot) get to grips with Employment Law or running a business. Why do you now think players have the whip hand in transfers, contracts, salaries etc? Because the PFA have used European and UK Law to their advantage. They had the balls and are now bleeding clubs dry. The trouble is the FA, Football League and Clubs' have not got the collective intelligence to use the present law to their advantage. Just think back to the ITV Digital fiasco. No parent company guarantees or performance bonds in place, so we all lost £'000's of contracted income. Why was that? Because the idiot administrators' who run our game do not have a basic, let alone detailed knowledge, of anything to do with business, law or probably anything else except freeloading.

So rather than call for Wally's head, perhaps we should be going back to basics and asking who the hell appointed him for another year in the first place. I would submit that based upon the evidence from January onwards there were sufficient grounds to show him the door, not open it further for him. It was clear that Downes was never going to make a manager of a football club. He had no history of management. His man management skills appear to consist of a limited vocabulary of foul four letter words. Team selection and motivation seems to be non existent. He was floundering like the proverbial fish as soon as Forzoni departed. So exactly who thought that this man was worthy of continuing the downhill slide that he had perpetrated starting in January? Was it Eddie Rogers? The man with no footballing pedigree and probably less experience of football matters than most on this board! The same Eddie Rogers who is Mr Noades puppet? The same Mr Noades who is probably still receiving a large Group Company Tax Relief on our losses? So the bigger the losses the more Mr Noades benefits? The same benefits that Mr Rogers will probably also enjoy through his associations with Altonwood? So exactly where do the loyalties of our Chairman lie? Is there a large financial incentive to have re-appointed a failing individual as manager? Who is left holding the baby? BU?

Our club is haemorrhaging cash and, assuming there is a business plan in place, we are surely not going to meet its projections on the current gates. And if Downes stays in post I have no confidence that the gates will ever achieve sufficient size to meet the Board’s level of required income. So Bish, some hard and difficult questions need to be answered. It is easy to say we do not have the money to pay off Downes. Just as easy as saying we should sack him in fact! But what we must not do is just take a narrow and short term view. A longer perspective needs to be taken. If the Board believe that they have made an error of judgement by appointing a failing manager for a further year then they need to decide what the financial implications of all scenarios may be. I would suggest that based upon the current evidence we cannot sustain the club based upon present crowd numbers. How do we improve the paying customer numbers? Basically I would suggest by improving the product. How? Well if Downes is not thought capable then get rid. Be bold and dismiss him on capability grounds. Now the tea boy has gone surely BFC have someone who can invoke employment law practices in the correct and lawful manner? If, however, they believe Downes is not the problem then I, for one, believe we are in serious trouble and consequently I would have to then say I have no confidence in the Board's ability to act in a sound and business like manner.
The bottom line is the team is not performing. And I repeat by the team I do not mean the individual players. I mean the unit selected and playing under the instructions of the manager. I have seen no evidence since January that has suggested that an improvement in team performance can be achieved by the present managerial incumbent. In fact all the statistics and evidence suggest the complete opposite. So stop talking about 3 games, look back to January 2003 and then look forward over a similar period. What can you see? All I can see is a team struggling. I hope I’m wrong, but I fear not. So the nettle is there to be grasped if anyone has the balls to grab hold!!!!

 

[Edmundo]

I remember a three month period from January, when a young team had to play twice a week every week and it was clear that that was proving too much for them. The manager did not arrange the fixtures, nor call off games for bad weather. His only part in this might have been to achieve success in two cup competitions, thus cluttering the fixture list further.

When the two games a week run came to an end, the performances and results picked up.

I'm not saying Downes is a fantastic manager, but I do think that there has been a completely ridiculous over-reaction to our opening games, displaying all the symptoms of mass hysteria.

Let me go further: the first game was one that most probably thought we'd do well to draw. With 10 men for 80 minutes, we didn't have a prayer, but despite that fought back to give ourselves an outside chance before legs tired. The manager was not responsible in any way for the sending off of Beadle.

The next game was another that only insane optimists would have given us a chance of getting anything other than a hiding from. But we didn't do too badly until we were again reduced to ten men - again, this was no fault of the manager.

And against Peterborough, we certainly didn't play well, but I think it's nonsense to suggest that we haven't played worse than that for 10/19/25/36 years or whatever. Off the top of my head - Cambridge away on Boxing Day under Coppell, Kingstonian in the FA Cup, Wigan at home in April 98 - not to mention a few games last season, including Peterborough away. Despite this, Peterborough were flattered by the scoreline, due to the extraordinarily unusually poor performance from our goalkeeper.

So there we have it. Downes is in my view being hung out to dry on the basis of selective memories from last season and one bad performance this. Effing ridiculous, in my opinion.

 

[Markybee]

I suspect they would if we appointed a "name" manager like Tony Adams.

Goo idea, he and I can get you future drink problem candidates on the straight and narrow

 

[Baz Bee]

I remember a three month period from January, when a young team had to play twice a week every week and it was clear that that was proving too much for them. The manager did not arrange the fixtures, nor call off games for bad weather. His only part in this might have been to achieve success in two cup competitions, thus cluttering the fixture list further.

When the two games a week run came to an end, the performances and results picked up.

Ed, if you ask most players, especially younger players I'm sure that by far the vast majority would rather be playing two games a week than playing one game and doing more training. In that respect we were/are at an advantage as young players recover from both the physical exertion and knocks quicker than the older players. Additionally, most other teams were also playing two games a week. Maybe not so many as us, but still not that many less.

In fact if you look at the results they really do not improve significantly after we stopped playing two matches per week. Our last Tuesday match was the 1-0 defeat at Port Vale on 18 March 2003. After that we played 8 more matches including the 2-0 win at Chesterfield on Easter Monday. Of those 8 matches we won 2, lost 4 and drew 2, scoring 9 and conceding 11. From 4 January (FA Cup 3) up to and including the Port Vale match we played 17 matches of which 8 were midweek games. Of these 17 games we won 3 drew 4 and lost 10! Scoring 10 and conceding 23. I would say that overall the performances were not to much different between January and May!!! And unfortunately they have continued this season where we left off.

All I can say is that, IMO, we do not have poor players. We have poor team selection, poor man motivation and non existent leadership from the manager. Yes, we do need a goal scrorer but that is not an excuse for the rest of the mediocrity that is being delivered by the team.

 

[Hungerford Bee]

"And against Peterborough, we certainly didn't play well, but I think it's nonsense to suggest that we haven't played worse than that for 10/19/25/36 years or whatever. Off the top of my head - Cambridge away on Boxing Day under Coppell, Kingstonian in the FA Cup, Wigan at home in April 98 - not to mention a few games last season, including Peterborough away".


I think that you can add the Wycombe away league game, Cambridge in the FRT and Cheltenham at home in the league to your list of poor performances. Can you think of many good performances after the Derby cup game?