Brentford 1-1 Bristol City: Match Reports

The Pipe

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Watched in silence on the box last night as otherwise it was the Barnsley commentary!!!

Good game of football from 2 good trams, excellent goal from Dasilva which came from nowhere and overall thought we were the better footballing team although towards the end a few players had nothing left in the tank.

The substitution at the end had, in my opinion, no effect on the game whereas some tired minds and bodies did with a lack of concentration leading to their equaliser. The rights and wrongs of the substitutes will be discussed at length and I have read various posters expressing their views that it was a mistake. My opinion for what it’s worth is that Frank was aware that some players had little to offer and could make mistakes so by trying to bolster the defence it would assist a tiring midfield and should allow us to see out the game ( something we have had issues with in the past!!) it didn’t work out due to player error and just goes into the “ sh*t happens” envelope.

A lot to be impressed with against a team that won’t be far away come the end of the season and, as our players settle, some of the fitness issues are resolved from those who missed pre season or have played little I have every confidence that come the season end we will be comfortably top 6
 

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The positive is that we showed that we can match and outplay one of the better teams in the league.

It was a game that was played at quite a high intensity, and we showed what we are capable of - fast flowing, quick passing football.
Yes, disappointing to leak that goal.

However, we are overall better defensively than last season, and most teams will find it difficult to score against us.

Bristol did not come for a draw, and you can see from their style of play, and previous results that they are an attacking outfit.
They kept looking for that equaliser.
We just need everyone to concentrate for those last few minutes.

Thought they had done their homework on Ollie, as he was squeezed out of much of the game.

Personally, I thought that this game showed us stepping up to another level, and an overall improvement.
A game that we were never going to lose, as we imposed ourselves on a quick and energetic team in Bristol.

Bentley was always going to be up to do well in this match. Plus he wanted to show us that has improved.

There was a spell in the second half, where we were all over them.
It was Bentley who kept them in the game then, with several saves.
This included one tremendous reaction save, at his right hand post, from what looked like a ricochet off his own player from just a couple of yards away.

All still good for us. A draw at Forest will be a good result. A win will be truly magnificent!

Didn’t Griffin Park look fantastic under the lights. I’ll miss that walk towards the ground for floodlit game!
 

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Don’t agree that subs cost us...Kamo played 90mins on Sun (at a struggle) and 70mins last night. He was on empty.

What cost us the points was poor finishing, not stopping crosses coming in to our box (happening before any subs) and when that cross did come in we had 4 giants (Henrik, Pontus, Jeanvier and Pinnock) who didn’t mark their midget (by comparison) winger, who heads it in. No way should he be getting a free header in our penalty area. That’s not a product of subs or Kamo going off....it’s a product of bang average marking and defensive play.

If we had beaten the dross of Birmingham, Hull and Stoke at home, tonight’s point would feel ok. But we didn’t and it doesn’t.

3pts needed at Forest.
 

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Don’t agree that subs cost us...Kamo played 90mins on Sun (at a struggle) and 70mins last night. He was on empty.

What cost us the points was poor finishing, not stopping crosses coming in to our box (happening before any subs) and when that cross did come in we had 4 giants (Henrik, Pontus, Jeanvier and Pinnock) who didn’t mark their midget (by comparison) winger, who heads it in. No way should he be getting a free header in our penalty area. That’s not a product of subs or Kamo going off....it’s a product of bang average marking and defensive play.

If we had beaten the dross of Birmingham, Hull and Stoke at home, tonight’s point would feel ok. But we didn’t and it doesn’t.

3pts needed at Forest.
Yep pretty much agree with your post, we certainly had enough of the play and chances created to have made it 2-0 and killed the game. As for their goal as has been mentioned a bad mistake cost us. On the upside we were better than BC for long periods and are getting back to the levels that we need to be at. As for Saturday I am confident we can get something but will need to rotate 1 or 2 players like Moko, Canos to keep things fresh.
 

Les Beeavinu

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Watched in silence on the box last night as otherwise it was the Barnsley commentary!!!
Would have been weird. By 'eck, these southern softies prancing around. And why's t' crowd wearing coats on a balmy evening like this.
 

Eieieio

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VERY easy to say!

Kamo was struggling, that was so obvious. So he had to make the sub, Jensen playing at his own slow pace - didn't react quick enough to the game.
TF knew they would put balls into the box so went for more height, and to allow Dals and Henry to push natural space out wide for the last seven minutes. How it is TF's fault that they couldn't readjust and pick up the men is beyond me.
So much blame landing at the feet of the manager and not the defending, I've got a still image from the highlights that shows 4 Bristol City players at the D and the penalty spot, with only TWO defenders.

That side, best performance of the season and a wonder goal. Watkins didn't get much apart from the first half where he tried to take a touch for an unknown reason. Henry mistake aside (thank you Raya) we were very comfortable at the back for large parts of the game. We controlled things for a very long time and Norgaard is improving with every game too.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle - poor defending but how much did the tactical change contribute to loss of focus/awareness and change the mentality of both teams?

I think the thing is that while it’s easy in hindsight to criticise a change when afterwards we go on to concede... a fair few on here would have been critical of the change at the time. I’m sure we weren’t the only ones in the stands saying “oh no, they’ve changed the formation, we’re asking for it here”.

You’re right though that there were lots of positives as well, and reasons to be optimistic, mostly in terms of how much we dominated ball against a good team. Would have been a very boring match for Bristol fans apart from their goal.

I think the main finding I took though is that 4-3-3 is looking good so far for us - both against weak and strong teams...
 

jlove

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Conceding was absolutely nothing to do with the substitutions. Mokotjo was a bit behind the pace all game and had almost ground to a halt before asking to come off; The ref was on Canós' case all game, having words with Sergi from early in the first half, mainly for manhandling in the box at corners; getting him off after that yellow was absolutely correct and he would have been subbed sooner or later without that. Dasilva not letting the ball run out but trying a back heel started the catalogue of errors that lead to the goal; not closing down the eventual crossser was a clear mistake – I think it was Benrahma's job; allowing so much space in the box for a header was a defensive mess.

Anyway, the game showed we can compete at any level in the Championship but that there's still a lot of improvement to be made. Nørgaard was impressive again and it's hard to criticise a player who actually commits to a tackle and is side-stepped. Perhaps he needs to grab a handful of shirt like seemed to be our defensive midfield tactic prior.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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Watched in silence on the box last night as otherwise it was the Barnsley commentary!!!

Good game of football from 2 good trams, excellent goal from Dasilva which came from nowhere and overall thought we were the better footballing team although towards the end a few players had nothing left in the tank.

The substitution at the end had, in my opinion, no effect on the game whereas some tired minds and bodies did with a lack of concentration leading to their equaliser. The rights and wrongs of the substitutes will be discussed at length and I have read various posters expressing their views that it was a mistake. My opinion for what it’s worth is that Frank was aware that some players had little to offer and could make mistakes so by trying to bolster the defence it would assist a tiring midfield and should allow us to see out the game ( something we have had issues with in the past!!) it didn’t work out due to player error and just goes into the “ sh*t happens” envelope.

A lot to be impressed with against a team that won’t be far away come the end of the season and, as our players settle, some of the fitness issues are resolved from those who missed pre season or have played little I have every confidence that come the season end we will be comfortably top 6
Why was the commentator from Barnsley?
 

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Having watched it again now why oh why did benrahma just wander into the middle of the pitch :( if he help the shape then the ball either doesnt get out to him or atleast theres some pressure on him when crossing. Then pontus forgets to look behind him and keep his man, perhaps dalsgaard should have been shouting at him, he could see all the way along the line. Hard to be too critical when they had been so solid up until then but you need to be ruthless if you want to challenge. Starting to feel like more and more like a season of integration and transition to prepare for a push next season
 
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Having watched it again now why oh why did benrahma just wander into the middle of the pitch :( if he help the shape then the ball either doesnt get out to him or atleast theres some pressure on him when crossing. Then pontus forgets to look behind him and keep his man, perhaps dalsgaard should have been shouting at him, he could see all the way along the line. Hard to be too critical when they had been so solid up until then but you need to be ruthless if you want to challenge. Starting to feel like more and more like a season of integration and transition to prepare for a push next season
Except we surely won’t have Watkins or Said next season and will have to integrate their replacements.
 

TorbayBee

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Having watched it again now why oh why did benrahma just wander into the middle of the pitch :( if he help the shape then the ball either doesnt get out to him or atleast theres some pressure on him when crossing. Then pontus forgets to look behind him and keep his man, perhaps dalsgaard should have been shouting at him, he could see all the way along the line. Hard to be too critical when they had been so solid up until then but you need to be ruthless if you want to challenge. Starting to feel like more and more like a season of integration and transition to prepare for a push next season
There is a lot of the season left. In fact 30 odd games so seems a little early to be giving up on the Top 6. If you remember Villa hardly set the league alight for over half the season last year. Lots to play for. and I for one am confident that a post Christmas run will see us there or thereabouts.This division is very open with a lot of clubs currently over-performing so certainly no need to give up on promotion.
 

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Except we surely won’t have Watkins or Said next season and will have to integrate their replacements.
Mbeumo, Valencia already on the conveyor belt with Dervisoglu to come in January. Benrahma i can definitely see going but Ollie having signed his new contract with no doubt improved terms, might want to stick around for the first season at lionel with a squad thats been moulded throughout this season(hopefully)
 
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Mbeumo, Valencia already on the conveyor belt with Dervisoglu to come in January. Benrahma i can definitely see going but Ollie having signed his new contract with no doubt improved terms, might want to stick around for the first season at lionel with a squad thats been moulded throughout this season(hopefully)
Fair comment but I’m certain Ollie will also go.
 

The Pipe

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Why was the commentator from Barnsley?
Pictures from GP commentary from Barnsley v Derby I think, was not sure what was going on so watched with no commentary, very strange experience
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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Starting to feel like more and more like a season of integration and transition to prepare for a push next season
The problem is, with the way we (have to) operate, is that every season is a season of integration and transition, and it's always this time next year rodders we'll be pushing to be premier league miwleeeonaaaaires. ;)
 
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The red button coverage is a disgrace. Either do it properly or don’t bother at all.

Was the commentator even there or watching it back at the studio, squinting at the almost unrecognisable players?

His appalling commentary makes me feel it was the latter.
 

Herbert

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Gutting as we were robbed. That was one of the best all round 90 minute performances for some time, and against a good team.

First half was a cracking game to watch, both teams playing well. I think we edged it.

Second half was almost all us. Bentley kept them in it with atleast 3 top saves. Class goal from Da Silva.

All positives overall just gutting we didnt get the win we deserved against good opposition
 

WisBee

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Starting to feel like more and more like a season of integration and transition to prepare for a push next season

.......when, as it stands, it looks as if we will need to find replacements for Dalsgaard and Mokotjo, both full internationals, don't forget.......
 

beetee

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Here's that goal

The throw-in. We have 4 defenders on the edge of the box and one just outside looking after two of theirs. Said is close to their number 2 - the eventual crosser of the ball for their goal.
View attachment 20719

The ball is played laterally by City. Again plenty of cover for the three City playing on the edge of the box whilst Dalsgaard has their left-winger covered. We pressurise the possession and the ball is played back to their #9. Said goes for a jog here leaving their right-back in plenty of space.
View attachment 20720

Their 9 pings it back to their right where their #2 collects. There is space here and two of our defenders both leave their central positions to close down the space despite Rico being available. Said joins in as well having left their number 2 to it previously (above). Suddenly we have a 4 v 2 in the middle. Henrik notes this and sets-off.
View attachment 20721

The cross comes-in. There are two clear areas for the ball to be played in to.
View attachment 20722

At this stage with the ball in mid-flight. Pontus is still committed to defending the area around the penalty spot otherwise he'd be leaving a 3 v 1 here. In doing so he's inadvertently increased the target area for the cross.
View attachment 20723

Despite Dalsgaard getting a foot in and Pontus attempting a block, the header is well executed and beyond Raya's reach.
View attachment 20724

What could we have done better?

Well it's not hard is it. However certainly nothing to do with the substitution.
Top punditry Banana... Brentford TV beckons 🍌😁
 

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Full credit to City. They didn’t come to park the bus and tried to play football throughout.
Without any outstanding individual performances from us, overall we were impressive and created chances. Bentley made a number of top class saves to keep us out.
Dasilva scored a fantastic goal (which I hope will boost his confidence) although he didn’t have the best of games.
I fully understood the substitutions and, despite the feeling from some that they were unwise and caused us to concede, their goal was just down to individual errors and really should not be blamed on Thomas Frank.
Lots of positives to take from tonight. We dominated possession and had more shots and shots on target than City, who are no mean team and will be in with a shout of a top 6 place at season’s end. So too will we.
 

GuyBee

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The problem is, with the way we (have to) operate, is that every season is a season of integration and transition, and it's always this time next year rodders we'll be pushing to be premier league miwleeeonaaaaires. ;)
I felt last season was our chance, we had little integration to do. The bad run over the winter period killed that
 

TorbayBee

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The problem is, with the way we (have to) operate, is that every season is a season of integration and transition, and it's always this time next year rodders we'll be pushing to be premier league miwleeeonaaaaires. ;)
From how I understand it that is where the 15/20% influence of luck plays its part. As a business we seem to be confident of a buy/improve/sell model to keep us in the Championship. However using such a model can inevitably hinder the team from hitting the ground running each season as players are newly integrated. In this scenario the importance of luck is emphasised. As referred to by MB and other analysts the importance of luck/good fortune etc is identified as the x factor that we cannot predict or control. Teams with a lot of luck can out perform better teams e.g. a poor Reading side few years ago only failed to go up on penalties. Therefore I believe for us to go up we need some luck to keep us ticking over and in touch while we bed players in. Here's hoping
 

Frothybaby

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I thought we played some good stuff last night but overall still look about 70%. CN showed the type of player we can eulogise over. Defensively we looked strong and Raya is impressive. Kamo coming back to form and JDS improving . The result was ok, but disappointing with little time left. Three games unbeaten and hopefully something out of Saturday's game. Does it matter that NF have an extra day's rest?

Yes we are addressing defensive frailties, but we still aren't taking the chance we create, and the chances created seem fewer to me this season.
 

Isleworth_Bee

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Good game, we are still a work in progress. The change of subs wasnt the problem, it was the formation change that didnt help. I think TF should have just gone like for like changes and kept the shape.

Fitness issues are a worry especially with a tough game up at Forest coming up. Bentley unfortunatly did what he does best and pulled off some good shot stopping saves.

Ps there are some proper moaners in the right of ER. One bloke was seething at the end calling Frank a Danish**** then proceeded to have a pop at a fan who had hung a flag in "his spot". heaven forbid he had to move a few yards to somewhere else to watch the game.
 
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Just to say we have conceded 3 goals in 5 home games one of which was a freak.

I haven’t checked but I’d guess that we have conceded no more than about 8 shots on target in those 5 games too.

We certainly are tightening up.
 

WisBee

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Just to say we have conceded 3 goals in 5 home games one of which was a freak.

I haven’t checked but I’d guess that we have conceded no more than about 8 shots on target in those 5 games too.

We certainly are tightening up.

......sorry to burst your bubble NLB, but in those 5 matches, we've managed to score 5 goals, of which (IIRC) 3 were scored in one half; I think we agree that we are certainly tightening up, but with different meanings........



Edit I don't know what the ratios are for goals scored as against shots on target as against shots at goal, but I would think they would make horrendous reading
 
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kevalutonbee

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I know its only one goal but maybe we aren't as reliant on Ollie as some think.:fishing:

Looking at the table this morning has anyone else noticed that lot from W12 and Charlton are starting to come back to us?
 

Les Beeavinu

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I know its only one goal but maybe we aren't as reliant on Ollie as some think.:fishing:

Looking at the table this morning has anyone else noticed that lot from W12 and Charlton are starting to come back to us?
That's because we're better than both of them. :) Form is temporary etc.
 
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......sorry to burst your bubble NLB, but in those 5 matches, we've managed to score 5 goals, of which (IIRC) 3 were scored in one half; I think we agree that we are certainly tightening up, but with different meanings........



Edit I don't know what the ratios are for goals scored as against shots on target as against shots at goal, but I would think they would make horrendous reading
I was simply talking about our defensive record and it’s massive improvement.

As for our attacking potency - or lack of it.....Rome wasn’t built in a day.
 

kevalutonbee

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An interesting stat. is the fact that in our league games so far we have had 69 corners ..I don’t think we have scored from any of them.
.
Perhaps thats why we are getting the set piece coach in :idea:
 

kevalutonbee

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Hope he helps to improve our movement on our throw in at the moment we look a bit static
Reading Bobby Robson's autobiography at the moment. He considered the great sin at throw in to be take the throw and immediately lose possession. Couldn't help but agree with him but it seems to happen an awful lot
 

liverbee

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Here's that goal

The throw-in. We have 4 defenders on the edge of the box and one just outside looking after two of theirs. Said is close to their number 2 - the eventual crosser of the ball for their goal.
View attachment 20719

The ball is played laterally by City. Again plenty of cover for the three City playing on the edge of the box whilst Dalsgaard has their left-winger covered. We pressurise the possession and the ball is played back to their #9. Said goes for a jog here leaving their right-back in plenty of space.
View attachment 20720

Their 9 pings it back to their right where their #2 collects. There is space here and two of our defenders both leave their central positions to close down the space despite Rico being available. Said joins in as well having left their number 2 to it previously (above). Suddenly we have a 4 v 2 in the middle. Henrik notes this and sets-off.
View attachment 20721

The cross comes-in. There are two clear areas for the ball to be played in to.
View attachment 20722

At this stage with the ball in mid-flight. Pontus is still committed to defending the area around the penalty spot otherwise he'd be leaving a 3 v 1 here. In doing so he's inadvertently increased the target area for the cross.
View attachment 20723

Despite Dalsgaard getting a foot in and Pontus attempting a block, the header is well executed and beyond Raya's reach.
View attachment 20724

What could we have done better?

Well it's not hard is it. However certainly nothing to do with the substitution.
I just see a banana holding a Roman sword to a Scandinavian throat.
 

Rubenhutchinson

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I kept a close eye on that all game, 4 times he went to go tight to the man (who had already received the ball) but was too slow in doing so and got sidestepped. He's not quick enough to get back when that happens, he's got to learn to hold his ground and position because leaving the space behind is much more important than maybe making a tackle. HOWEVER he won a ton of the ball with good tackling.
Fair enough then, IDBI must be right regarding different definitions of stuff. That is one part of his game that I would say he needs to improve, but it's still very early on in his Bees career so I'm very impressed
 

jlove

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I kept a close eye on that all game, 4 times he went to go tight to the man (who had already received the ball) but was too slow in doing so and got sidestepped. He's not quick enough to get back when that happens, he's got to learn to hold his ground and position because leaving the space behind is much more important than maybe making a tackle. HOWEVER he won a ton of the ball with good tackling.
It's a judgement a player needs to make. Either you go tight to the player with the ball and try a tackle, risking the player will outwit you (see Saïd's showreel), or you keep a bit of distance and try to shepherd him into traffic (the Douglas technique), where he can be outnumbered. The best defensive players are those that make the best decision in each circumstance, plus have the ability to recycle the ball quickly and transition defence to attack. From what I've seen so far, Nørgaard is pretty good and will only improve with a developing understanding with his teammates.
 

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He did still drop one. And Raya was far more assured with his handling - he basically leapt and caught everything with confidence whereas Bentley punched everything even when it could comfortably have been caught.

The phantom farter of Ealing Road now unveiled.
 

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Isn't a player being beaten on the turn a failure in pressing? Should be one goes, one covers shouldn't it?
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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It's a judgement a player needs to make. Either you go tight to the player with the ball and try a tackle, risking the player will outwit you (see Saïd's showreel), or you keep a bit of distance and try to shepherd him into traffic (the Douglas technique), where he can be outnumbered. The best defensive players are those that make the best decision in each circumstance, plus have the ability to recycle the ball quickly and transition defence to attack. From what I've seen so far, Nørgaard is pretty good and will only improve with a developing understanding with his teammates.
Point was his decision making or execution of the tackle when running out to someone to close down around the centre spot was very poor and got done nearly every time.
In tighter areas when not running out to someone he was much better.
He’s either got to make the tackle (very risky running full pelt) or slow down a fraction ready to contain/shepherd the player as you describe. Instead he stayed full tilt and got spun or run past with a simple short nudge past of the ball.
 

jlove

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... got done nearly every time.
Do you really mean this? Without any evidence but what I saw, I'd say he must have won double figures and got done 3 or 4 times, so my wild-****ed guess is 70% success rate.
 

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Do you really mean this? Without any evidence but what I saw, I'd say he must have won double figures and got done 3 or 4 times, so my wild-****ed guess is 70% success rate.
As far as I can recall, he over committed on two or three occasions and got left for dead. The rest was good.
 

Mr Cynical

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Just to say we have conceded 3 goals in 5 home games one of which was a freak.

I haven’t checked but I’d guess that we have conceded no more than about 8 shots on target in those 5 games too.

We certainly are tightening up.
The only issue I see with this is that those few chances we're conceding are generally very good chances. We've let in a few with players unmarked in the box. Snuff that out and we'll be a hell of a force as our attacking play is starting to come together.
 

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Quite a lot of very positive remarks about Bristol City’s fans Griffin Park experience on their forums -

Just posted 3 here to give you a flavour of what they, and we all are going to miss at our beloved Griffin Park -

"All top notch again last night in my experience.
Chatty, friendly bar*staff and Brentford fans in the pub.
Smiley, friendly, helpful stewards outside and inside Griffin Park - the all to often miserable looking stewards*who*survey us grimly and suspiciously at AG could learn a thing or two.
Griffin Park -*what a great ground, an absolute pleasure to visit so often over the decades, a traditional away day experience second to none imo.*that will be hugely missed.
Good luck to Brentford FC in their new ground - looking forward to visiting when the time comes*and*hopefully they can retain*that friendly and welcoming feel as well as at least some of the traditional atmosphere of Griffin Park.*Also*hoping it*is close enough to use the same fantastic pubs and that*none of these historic alehouses*are in any way threatened by the move.
*P.S.*The lights being switched off*in the stands last night when the game was on*made*a hugely positive difference to the atmosphere - powers that be at AG take note.*The policy of leaving them on has completely destroyed the 'special atmosphere of AG under the lights' the club constantly goes on about as far as I'm concerned."

‘Was quite emotional walking around the outside of Griffin Park last night, seeing all the fabric of the stadium, the old turnstiles, corrugated roofs, and the floodlights etc. I had a great view in the top tier, it's a fantastic stadium, full of character. I also found all the stewards helpful and friendly. I'll miss Griffin Park, even though I think that was only my third visit. *
Looking forward to visiting their new ground at some point."

"Absolutely agree with this thread. One of my favourite away days. The stewards show that it is possible for them to do their job whilst being friendly and welcoming and their fans show you can be enthusiastic, knowledgeable and passionate without being needless arseholes towards opposing fans.*
I am going to miss Griffin Park but am looking forward to the new ground. It sounds like they're trying to make it nice and compact and keep some of what is special about Griffin Park so hopefully it'll still be a unique experience and have a bit of character."
 

EarleyBee

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Do you really mean this? Without any evidence but what I saw, I'd say he must have won double figures and got done 3 or 4 times, so my wild-****ed guess is 70% success rate.
You have to remember that IDBI currently benefits from one of the best seats in GP which allows them to see stuff that other fans don't, you may as well stop now, resistance is futile
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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You have to remember that IDBI currently benefits from one of the best seats in GP which allows them to see stuff that other fans don't, you may as well stop now, resistance is futile
You have to remember that other fans saw it too. As evidenced earlier in this thread. It's just the stupid ones, like you, who try to make silly comments if they missed something or don't agree.
 

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