Brentford FC's Fallen Heroes.

Banana

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Paul, the research that you have performed on this subject is nothing short of extraordinary. Grateful thanks for this wonderful research.
 

wanderer paul

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Cheers.

I noticed that the Football club mentioned on the OS, and their other media outlets, the two new additions this morning too. Either taken from here, Facebook or twitter, from my accounts.

There may now be an A team player - the Bees 3rd team at the time - from 1938/39 to add, who died in WW2. Just checking on one or two things first.
 
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Cheers.

I noticed that the Football club mentioned on the OS, and their other media outlets, the two new additions this morning too. Either taken from here, Facebook or twitter, from my accounts.

There may now be an A team player - the Bees 3rd team at the time - from 1938/39 to add, who died in WW2. Just checking on one or two things first.

You've done a great job, WP.

Reading about Alexander Glen has made me very sad. The poor man.
 

Ace Face

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I am going to Brentford war memorial tomorrow and will pay my own tribute to the BFC fallen.
 

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Great Job Paul well done. Seems to be some pretty extraordinary stories.. maybe worth publishing a book in the style of the "Big Brentford" books to put them all into one place?
 

halibutbee64

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I agree with others Paul, it's a fantastic thorough job you are doing on this.
 

wanderer paul

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Great Job Paul well done. Seems to be some pretty extraordinary stories.. maybe worth publishing a book in the style of the "Big Brentford" books to put them all into one place?

Mmmm, there’s a lot of work to do to get these brave players into some sort of book. Still a lot to search re their career in football and then their service in the forces. It’s something to think about though :)

If it was to happen, any profits will go to a charity or even towards a permanent memorial at LR. We’ll see.

ps Another new name has come to light recently too. A former player to add to the list, IMO, of those already known to have lost their lives in WW1 & WW2. Currently at 12 peacetime and 6 guests, this could be 14 peacetime and 6 guests once the names have been checked.
 

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My research into the footballers of Brentford FC who fought in WW1 is still an ongoing project. Even eight years after this thread was started, I'm still finding men who made the ultimate sacrifice.

Last November, 2017, I finally found the forename of a player who played for the B's in 1899 and 1903. His name, John Bayne. 103 years ago, on this day, he was in France. Tomorrow, 21 July 1915, was to be his last. Here's his shortened story...............................

John Bayne

John was born on 23 November 1877 in Dunblane Perthshire Scotland and was the illegitimate son of Mary Bayne, a farm servant. The birth record on Scotland’s People states that John came into this world at 10:45pm.

The 1881 Scotland Census shows that a three year old John and 26 year old Mary were living with Mary’s parents, John and Catherine Bayne, in Ramoyle.

The 1891 Scotland Census still shows John (now aged 13) living with his Grandmother Catherine Bayne (aged 65). There’s no record, that I can find, of his mother, Mary, or Grandfather, John Bayne.

At the age of 18 years and 3 months, John Bayne attested as a Private in Perth and joined the Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) on 17 February 1896. He was given the service number 6349. John signed up for 12 years of service, of which 7 years are in the Colours and a further 5 years were in the army reserve. He was posted to the 2nd Battalion Black Watch (Royal Highlanders).

The 2nd Bn. Black Watch were ordered to make their way down south to the barracks at Aldershot. In September 1898 The Black Watch (including Bayne) played Reading FC in a friendly match. A month later in October 1898 John Bayne, along with two fellow serving soldiers, played for Reading FC in a Southern League.
A year later (September 1899) and still in barracks at Aldershot, with the 2nd Bn. Black Watch, John Bayne played in the Southern League for Brentford FC. He played in two matches; 9 September 1899 versus Wycombe Wanderers and 23 September 1899 versus Shepherds Bush, scoring a goal in both games.

1899 for Brentford FC was a major turning point for the Club. Due to unlawful payments to players, including serving soldiers, Brentford were ordered to face the Football Assosciation to explain their case. The FA's decision was to suspend and also fine Brentford. A number of Club officials were suspended and several footballers too. One of them was John Bayne. As John Bayne and George Turner were on their way to The Cape, South Africa, their suspensions were to be looked by the FA on their return to the UK. Therefore, John Bayne has a place in the Clubs history as the FA investigation forced Brentford FC to turn professional.

John Bayne served for three years in South Africa with the 2nd and 1st Battalions of the Black Watch. He received the Queens South Africa and the Kings South Africa campaign medals.

On his return to the UK, John played for St Johnstone, Hearts and Raith Rovers. In late March 1903 John played for Brentford, again; versus Reading (21 March) and QPR (28 March), without scoring a goal. These were the last of his appearances in the Southern League for Brentford FC.

As a previous serving soldier John Bayne, now 37 years old, was called up once again for service due to the First World War. He re-joined the Royal Highlanders (Black Watch) as Private and kept his old number 6349 with an additional prefix “3” (i.e. 3/6349). The prefix “3” is in reference to the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion Royal Highlanders based in Nigg Scotland. His service record hasn't survived the WW2 bombings. However, thanks to the medal rolls and the Black Watch War Diary [WD], I'm able to follow in his foot steps.

He went to France on 22 April 1915. The WD gives details of the Battalions movements, the actions they took part in, the training they did, the drafts of new men (due to the losses the Battalion took) and the final day of John's life.

On 21 July 1915, after serving his Lieutenant his evening meal (Private Bayne was the batman to 2nd Lieutenant Cochrane), John sat down for his own meal when a rifle grenade was fired from the German lines. It exploded next to John and several fellow soldiers of his machine gun detachment. John Bayne, aged 38, was said to have been killed instantly, alongside another man of his detachment. Several of his colleagues in the detachment were also wounded.

A letter home to Scotland from a Perth Cricket Club member mentions the death of “Jock” Bayne. He says; “Jock was a former member of Dunblane FC and was also known as playing for the Saints (St Johnstone FC). He was a nice, quiet chap. One of just a few old soldiers left who served in the South African war.”

He left a wife, named May, and four young children bewtween the ages of seven and two.

Private John Bayne 3/6349 is buried in St. Vaast Post Military Cemetery, Richebourg-L'Avoue France. (Grave no. I. J. 2.)

Private Bayne has been added to the GPG's Roll of Honour to the Fallen.

[Please do not copy any of the above without permission]


John Bayne - Gravestone - 21 7 1915 small.jpeg

The headstone of Private J. Bayne 3/6349.
 

wanderer paul

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After discovering Brentford FC's thirteenth known former player to have lost their life in WW1, Private John Bayne, just a month ago number fourteen was discovered. Once again, here's his story.......

Joshua Hardisty

Born during the autumn of 1882 in Buttermere Cumberland, Joshua was the eldest son of Henry and Mary Ann Hardisty.

The 1891 Census tells us the Hardisty family were living at Taylors Cottages, Drigg & Carleton, Cumberland. Henry was employed as an agricultural labourer.

The 1901 Census shows the family had moved to Tongne Ghyll Cottage, Grasmere, Kendal, Westmorland. (Grasmere is now in the middle of the Lake District National Park.) Joshua was 18 and is noted as an apprentice painter.

The first mention of Joshua Hardisty as a footballer, is in the local newspaper Lakes Chronicle, during September 1903, as playing for Grasmere Football Club. In April 1906 Brentford FC requested that Jos. Hardisty, and a second player named Wright, come down to London for a football trial. Hardisty named in the squad for a Western League fixture versus Reading FC on April 13 1906 at Griffin Park. The next day, Saturday 14 April, Hardisty was chosen for the first eleven and played for Brentford in an away Southern League match versus Northampton Town. The match ended in defeat by four goals to nil. Hardisty isn’t mentioned again as playing for Brentford, that can be sourced to date.

Hardisty went back home after his football trial at Brentford and continued playing for Grasmere FC as well as being a House Painter by trade. The Census of 1911 shows that Joshua was still living in Grasmere, but now at Turn Howe, Grasmere Westmorland. He’s mentioned in 1914 as still being a regular playing member of the Grasmere FC.

The Earl of Lonsdale proposed a Pals Battalion of the local population of Cumberland and Westmorland. This was approved by the War Office on 17 September 1914.

On 9 November 1914 in Ambleside Cumberland, Joshua Hardisty enlisted into the 11th (Service) Battalion Border Regiment (Lonsdale) as Private 16258. Hardisty joined C Company. At 1am on 23 November 1915, the Lonsdale Battalion left Salisbury for Kent to board a ship to France. At 9.30am, 23 November 1915, the Battalion left Folkstone for Bolougne France.

The Lonsdale Battalion War Diary can be followed to see where the Battalion was billeted, the actions it took part in and the place where Sergeant Joshua Hardity fell.

On 26 June 1916, now a Corporal, Hardisty received a gunshot wound to the right arm (He was one of many that day; 2 O.R. killed, 30 O.R. wounded, 9 shell shock.) He spent several days in a field hospital before re-joining his Battalion on 2 July 1916.

[The date of his return to the 11th Battalion is notable one. Just a day prior, on 1 July 1916, the Somme Offensive began, the Lonsdale's were to take part on the opening day.

A note in the WD says; “Battalion advanced from assembly trenches at 8 a.m. and came under very heavy machine-gun fire, suffering over 500 Casualties”.

Out of 28 officers and 800 men or so who left the wood, 25 officers and about 500 men were out of action, killed or wounded. From the original four companies, the Battalion was reduced to just two.]


On a day likely to be between August 1916 and October 1916, Sergeant Hardisty took part in an action where he was cited for his "Bravery in the field" and was recommended for the award of the Military Medal. No citations survive, unfortunately, for the Military Medal. He was also promoted to acting sergeant and, more than likely, to have been confirmed later as a Sergeant by a promotion in the field. This bravery award was mentioned in the London Gazette on 10 November 1916.

At some time during an engagement, near to a place named Wagon Road Beaumont-Hamel, Sergeant Joshua Hardisty was reported as “Missing”. On 12 December 1916 he was reported as killed in action on 18 November 1916.

Sergeant Joshua Hardisty (16258) of C Company 11th (Service) Battalion Border Regiment (Lonsdale) is buried at Waggon Road Cemetery, Beaumont-Hamel, France. His grave reference being A. 30.

He lies beside 195 fellow soldiers of WW1 who fell at Beaumont-Hamel, including 46 fellow Border Regiment soldiers.

Sgt. Joshua Hardisty’s next of kin received his WW1 campaign medals; the 1914/15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal and also his Military Medal for bravery.

Joshua Hardisty joins the Brentford FC/GPG Roll of Honour as the fourteenth member alongside the thirteen other former footballers so far discovered to have lost their lives during WW1 and WW2.

[Please do not copy any of the above without permission]

Hardisty and Bayne's story will be, hopefully, expanded in time. Along with the other twelve names on the Roll of Honour and the Brentford footballers who also served.


Joshua Hardisty MM - 18 11 1916 small.jpg

The headstone of Sergeant J. Hardisty MM 16258.
 

Banana

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Wonderful work Paul. Thanks very much.
 

sheffbee

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Well done for doing all this Paul. It is really moving and to me, extremely upsetting to read the accounts of their association with Brentford and terrifying deaths at such a young age. It is only right that we continue to remember them.
 

Houghton Bee

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Excellent job as always WP. Thank you.
 

halibutbee64

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Well done Paul
There’s such an aura around WWI and you’re articles certainly capture that.
 

jlove

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Really good historic information being built up WP, great stuff.

This is such a lot of work, as I know from trying to piece together my own father's military records ( ending with a rather ignoble: All prior service forfeited on conviction of desertion. Imprisoned. Discharged having been found medically unfit for further service over a 6 year period.) Each must take many, many hours.
 

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Fine work. Very interesting and well researched and written. In a former life I was a history teacher..
 

wanderer paul

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The BBC had a piece today on the National Trust and the choir who scaled the 13 peaks to remember those who died in WW1. The fells were gifted to the country and Scafell is England’s highest war memorial.

https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/a-great-gift-in-the-lake-district

The recent discovery of Sgt. Joshua Hardisty MM seems appropriate to add this here, as he hailed from Grasmere and the Lake District.
 

wanderer paul

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Another piece I found online was a poem by Canon H. D. Rawnsley. He was a local clergyman who must’ve known the Hardisty family.

To the Mother of Four Sons Gone to War

[Sergeant Joshua Hardisty M.M. 11th Battalion Border Regt., fell in action Nov. 18th; John Hardisty 1st Border Regt., fell in action July 30th, 1916. Two brothers, Harry and Walter, are still at the front.]

Mother of four sons gone to the war
Hark: how the stream mourns loud in the hollow
Two have fallen in fields afar
Two still the foemen follow.

Was it for this you reared each boy
In the calm of the dale and peace of the mountains
For this, their young hearts leapt with joy
And rush of Greenburn’s fountains.

For this that they borrowed strength of the hills
And freedom born of the torrent’s foaming,
The sycamore buds and the daffodils
And cuckoo’s call in the gloaming.

So nursed in their hearts the love of home,
That swift when they heard our England calling,
They answered. “O Mother we come, we come.”
Left painter’s work and walling.

For this, in defence of Grasmere vale
They topped the parapet, bombed the trenches
Endured the terrible shrapnel hail,
Blood, mud, and the battle-stenches.

For this, from the cottage beneath Helm-Crag
And not for the sake of a medal’s glory
They went to offer their lives for the Flag
And Honour’s ancient story ?

Weep not mother; rejoice with pride!
No more the stream mourns loud in the hollow
But it roars applause for the twain who died
And twain who the foemen follow.


https://www.hdrawnsley.com/index.php/life-and-times/memories-of-hardwicke/infant
 

Isleworth_Bee

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WP that is a wonderful bit of work. The reading is fascinating and sad at the same time. It really paints a picture of what happened all those years ago.

The time you put into this work must be long and hard. And at the same time quite rewarding. :sorted:
 

wanderer paul

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With two weeks till 11/11/2018 (Remembrance Sunday) and 100 years since the Armistice was signed and the cessation of hostilities on land, sea & air, between The Allies and Germany.

With two new discoveries since November 2017 now remembered, and added to Brentford FC’s fallen, we will remember them.

We Will Remember Them - Brentford FC.jpg
 

rodders

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It is inconceivable what those poor chaps went through and how they coped, came home if they were lucky and carried on ( no counselling in those days) Even more strange that university students have refused to back poppy day as they claim it is a celebration of war.
 

BlueJayBee

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Even more strange that university students have refused to back poppy day as they claim it is a celebration of war.

Ah yes, the old chestnut that they have the right to say that, which is true, but they conveniently overlook the fact that their right was paid for by the blood of those whom the poppy days remember.
 

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It is inconceivable what those poor chaps went through and how they coped, came home if they were lucky and carried on ( no counselling in those days) Even more strange that university students have refused to back poppy day as they claim it is a celebration of war.

...to the first part...indeed mate...and let us not forget the thousands of widows of the fallen who had to bring up children on their own...my grandmother being one of those....lest we forget....as for the second theme in your post....no comment.....except....ungrateful selfish bastards.
 
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A Real Mysteron

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Attention seeking ungrateful selfish bastards.

And don’t get me started on James McClean.......
 

wanderer paul

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There's a piece on Bayne and Hardisty in the programme versus Millwall. Plus the list, again, of those who fell in both World Wars. :sorted:

I did a short 5 minute spot with Beesotted on lovesport radio last night too. :)

I've also had contact, incredibly, with John Bayne's grandsons wife. The family didn't know of the connection with Brentford FC. A programme will be winging its way to them after Saturday as well. :)

The next step, with regards remembering these new names, is another memorial to sit alongside the one currently at Brentford FC. Whether its at GP or LR.
 

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As an ex serviceman I stood by the wall mounted memorial in Braemar yesterday to pay my respects to the fallen Brentford players, I was so disappointed to see it looking in an un-cared for state. I would have thought that, especially on the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1, someone at the club could have at least given it a clean. I will be emailing the club on Monday.
 

sonofabee

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There's a piece on Bayne and Hardisty in the programme versus Millwall. Plus the list, again, of those who fell in both World Wars. :sorted:

I did a short 5 minute spot with Beesotted on lovesport radio last night too. :)

I've also had contact, incredibly, with John Bayne's grandsons wife. The family didn't know of the connection with Brentford FC. A programme will be winging its way to them after Saturday as well. :)

The next step, with regards remembering these new names, is another memorial to sit alongside the one currently at Brentford FC. Whether its at GP or LR.

Good work WP
 

wanderer paul

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As an ex serviceman I stood by the wall mounted memorial in Braemar yesterday to pay my respects to the fallen Brentford players, I was so disappointed to see it looking in an un-cared for state. I would have thought that, especially on the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1, someone at the club could have at least given it a clean. I will be emailing the club on Monday.

Not sure what’s happening, or who is responsible for it now, especially on a match day when fresh flowers were displayed.
 

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It is inconceivable what those poor chaps went through and how they coped, came home if they were lucky and carried on ( no counselling in those days) Even more strange that university students have refused to back poppy day as they claim it is a celebration of war.

Its the new "in thing" to be easily offended by anything.
 

wanderer paul

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The QPR programme will carry the names of the fallen Bees players again this season, as they did 2 years ago, thanks to Matt Webb at QPR. :sorted: :)
 

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Apologies if this has been earmarked elsewhere, but does anyone know whether Bees are one of the 63 clubs which have participated in The Woodland Trust's "For King and Country" project, by planting a tree in memory of their players who served in WW1?

The BBC has a feature here on Harry Kane at Spurs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46099328

And there is more here on the "For King and Country" project, including how individual supporters may mark their own club's history: https://www.forclubandcountry.org.uk/
 

wanderer paul

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Apologies if this has been earmarked elsewhere, but does anyone know whether Bees are one of the 63 clubs which have participated in The Woodland Trust's "For King and Country" project, by planting a tree in memory of their players who served in WW1?

The BBC has a feature here on Harry Kane at Spurs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46099328

And there is more here on the "For King and Country" project, including how individual supporters may mark their own club's history: https://www.forclubandcountry.org.uk/

As far as I know, No. The Football Club hasn't participated.
 

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As an ex serviceman I stood by the wall mounted memorial in Braemar yesterday to pay my respects to the fallen Brentford players, I was so disappointed to see it looking in an un-cared for state. I would have thought that, especially on the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1, someone at the club could have at least given it a clean. I will be emailing the club on Monday.

I emailed the club on Monday and received an automated reply immediately, saying my email would be responded to within 72 hours. No response so far and with Remembrance Day now just two days away it doesn't look like it's going to get a clean. Very disappointing.
 

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....BBC 1.....very moving.....lest we forget.
 

wanderer paul

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Less than four years after WW1, supporters of PNE and HTFC were on their way to Wembley after travelling down from the north east and north west of the country. All jolly and on their charabancs.

They then drive past the Cenotaph. (Around a minute into this footage).

 

Paul USA

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I attended a function Friday evening - a minutes silence was held and then a lady read out a poem she had written.

I just want to share it with you all.



A soldier went to battle not knowing if he would return
He left his wife and children and the pain in his heart it burned
It was because of others to be kept free he gave his precious life
But it was only his wife and children that felt the sacrifice

He fought by the side of others, all exactly just like he
Alone in his heart scared, to keep others, strangers free
But for all those that he fought for, were they aware of his fight
When from a stray bullet, he lost his precious sight

But while being driven, to receive the help he had earned
A mortar hit the vehicle and it was overturned
He was thrown into the wayside, in agony and unable to move
Thinking God why have you picked on me, what is it I have to prove

A voice then answered him saying, here I am my son
You have proved that you had courage, now with me you must come
So the soldier held out his hand and felt the grasp firm and strong
And he was buried in a country, where he did not belong

His lonely wife and children, never got to know
About the bravery and courage he had got to show
And when the got the letter, saying he had died
The family came together, but all had died inside.


It just got to me and made me think more of the horrendous loss of life in WW1 and the way in which so many died so that I could be
sitting here, free, typing on my keyboard.
 

Bee4ever

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That was a lovely poem Paul USA. Thank you for sharing it with us.

I wrote a small poem last year in memory of my Uncle Jim a Gunner in the Royal Artillery . Killed in action 3rd February 1942 at El Alamein aged just 22.No known grave but commemorated on the El Alamein War Memorial

I never met you Jim,I only wish I had,
Two young brothers off to war. you and Fred,my Dad.

Dad came home,you stayed there alone,
Now just a name,carved on a wall of stone.

I'm so proud to carry both your names,
I'll always remember the sacrifice of my Uncle James

Your loving nephew Frederick James.

Whilst this little poem is personal to my family,it was written with the thought of the grief so many families suffered in both World Wars.

Just as a footnote. I was born on 29th December 1942. My dad was also fighting in North Africa. When I was 7 days old,Mum received a telegram saying he was missing in action. Mum named me after both of them as at that time she thought Dad had been killed too. Fortunately he wasn't and news came through later that he was a prisoner of war.

Thank you for reading this .

We shall remember them.
 

wanderer paul

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As my research continues into Brentford’s players from 1889 to 1920 (also including later years for WW1 research for those who may have served). It looks as though another undiscovered former player made the ultimate sacrifice. More on him later in the year.........trying to tie down his service and also whether his playing of football continued after his short time at Brentford....

With more and more older newspapers being digitised online, on FMP for example (British Newspaper Archives too), more information on our former players comes to light. Over 450 players from 1889/1920 have been found and named. Not just a surname anymore. New information pins down their football careers and where they lived. This then allows a wider search into census records, marriage records and births/deaths and military records.

It’s an evolving list of those we know who made the ultimate sacrifice....
 

Newport Pagnell Bee

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As my research continues into Brentford’s players from 1889 to 1920 (also including later years for WW1 research for those who may have served). It looks as though another undiscovered former player made the ultimate sacrifice. More on him later in the year.........trying to tie down his service and also whether his playing of football continued after his short time at Brentford....

With more and more older newspapers being digitised online, on FMP for example (British Newspaper Archives too), more information on our former players comes to light. Over 450 players from 1889/1920 have been found and named. Not just a surname anymore. New information pins down their football careers and where they lived. This then allows a wider search into census records, marriage records and births/deaths and military records.

It’s an evolving list of those we know who made the ultimate sacrifice....

That is some task you are undertaking; The Brentford Family Tree. Good luck with your research. What a great project.
 

wanderer paul

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