Final Score Brighton 2 - 0 Bees

seanrs

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Maybe when you sober up the future will look a little less bleak! ;)

Norwich and Newcastle are both down. Which means Bees only need to finish above one other team to avoid relegation. And seeing as 20 points from 17 games has another 5 teams below us, plus another two above catchable if we win our game in hand, then Bees have every chance of surviving once we get over our present injury crisis.

A couple of new signings in January would help, too.

"Nil Desperandum!"
Agree with you for the most part but re Newcastle I would say it depends on who they sign in January. For those that are critical at the moment I would say judge the team when there is a relatively fully fit squad. It’s not just first choice players injured but also many of the fringe players that would be natural replacements
 

seanrs

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I think that only Norwich are nailed on for the drop . Although they made the wrong choice of manager, Newcastle could climb the table with a few signings - decent defenders might help. Burnley usually grind it out and Watford will probably sack the manager. For all our overall play it was, as ever, small margins at Brighton. Our season will be decided by home games with Burnley and Newcastle and aways at Norwich and Watford. If we get the injured players back, minus Raya and JDS we will be OK. Don't want a repeat of how the season panned out in 92-93, 10th in December........
That was my thoughts too though I doubt we are going to sign Kenny Sansom or Alan Dickens type players. Also technology has moved on in terms of added time so we won’t be at the mercy of a Ray Biggar type judgement 😊
 

rebus

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@rebus - We've got 20 points.....what guarantees do we have we'll gain another point? Are you some kind of time traveller coming back from the future to reassure us?

No bed wetting going on, in most parts, just genuine opinions based on what we're seeing.
What guarantee is there you won’t get run over tomorrow? None. But I am willing to bet my house on us getting another point this season!
 

West Wilts Bee

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Agree with you for the most part but re Newcastle I would say it depends on who they sign in January. For those that are critical at the moment I would say judge the team when there is a relatively fully fit squad. It’s not just first choice players injured but also many of the fringe players that would be natural replacements
The point iswe were always going to get injuries and suspensions just like most teams. Imo we never signed enough to address this pre season.
 
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Their demeanor. Some looked like they couldn't be arsed, and that was reflected in their performances!
Could you be more specific please.

Which players?
What was it about their demeanour that suggested they were disinterested?
How long were you observing them for?

To be clear, you’ve accused some (or all?) players of a lack of effort and IMHO you need to give much more detail to justify that claim.
 

seanrs

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The point iswe were always going to get injuries and suspensions just like most teams. Imo we never signed enough to address this pre season.
Possibly although I can’t recall us having an injury crisis like this. Maybe there has been and it’s easier just to play players out of position in lower leagues
 

Silly Hat

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Could you be more specific please.

Which players?
What was it about their demeanour that suggested they were disinterested?
How long were you observing them for?

To be clear, you’ve accused some (or all?) players of a lack of effort and IMHO you need to give much more detail to justify that claim.
He won’t. He made it up.
 

The Pipe

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The point iswe were always going to get injuries and suspensions just like most teams. Imo we never signed enough to address this pre season.
Don’t disagree however it was not for the lack of trying. The January window is about to open and I have no doubt we will try and recruit suitable players

That having been said whilst we are now paying significant transfer fees and wages that are off the scale compared to a few years ago, there are other clubs with deeper pockets who, when hearing of our interest, will immediately sniff around. We want to buy players that meet all our requirements and I don’t think it is as easy as us fans would like
 

UtrechtBee

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The future looks like a return to the championship?!?

Well in, that’s the spirit.

The Europa league....... CHAMPIONS LEAGUE?!? Jesus we have some entitled fans.

We are struggling but we are still 9 points off the bottom 3 and teams down there aren’t pulling up trees either. We aren’t guaranteed to stay up but Jesus Christ it’s hard work on here. A 10 year stay will involve a hell of a lot of hard work and luck IMO. Teams like Burnley, West Ham, Southampton, Newcastle etc have spent years in this league and done sod all with the odd relegation mixed in.

Brentford FC will do well to have a 5 year stint in this league without having tough moments or a relegation on the history books.
That was a comment to the comparison being made between last night's game and playing Leyton Orient/Oldham.

It's the performances that are worrying me at the moment - too many games, Brentford are chasing the game 1-0 down and that's not just against top 6 teams, but the teams below Brentford too (Watford, Norwich, Leeds and even Newcastle). Yes of course, injuries, Covid have played their part this season but I also feel that tactically, the team is being out-thought due to the rigid 3-5-2 formation and starting the same 11 when possible. All I'm saying is that it's time to adapt the formation and/or the first team players to get the points needed to stay as far away from the relegation zone as possible as no one can rely on what happens to the teams below Brentford in terms of dropping points.

The Europa league....... CHAMPIONS LEAGUE?!? Jesus we have some entitled fans.

Yes, I make no apologies for that, why not aim high and look for a sustained stay in the PL and make and push in a few years for a Europa place? I'm not saying Brentford are entitled to it at all, but I'm sure management want to aim for that too? It will require opening up the wallet and wage ceiling to bring in 4-5 players of top quality to achieve it. I've always maintained that this first season in the PL, I'm aiming for 42 points and 17th place.
Brentford FC will do well to have a 5 year stint in this league without having tough moments or a relegation on the history books.
I'd take that too (5 year stint). But the performances over recent weeks will have to improve drastically but that also means TF needs to adapt game to game rather than putting out the same players in the same 3-5-2 formation. Rules out the element of surprise for Brentford's opposition.
 

The Pipe

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I don't think looking backwards 15 years helps the team. You can live only in the present and future, and right now, the future looks like a return to the Championship 6+ years of hard work (counting from Feb 2015 when the overhaul happened) to get up to the top flight only to get relegated immediately at the end of the season...there's some perspective for you. TF needs to start being less tactically naive and start trying different formations and different players against different teams. Sticking to this 3-5-2 system without the players to play his "play from the back" style is costing Brentford games and with it, points. I'd like a minimum of a decade's stay in the top flight, the money that comes with it to bring in some higher quality players and making a run at the Europa League/CL spots. For me, that's the definition of progress
Wow!!!

nobody either here or at the club want us to be relegated, although as Phil Giles mentioned, it is something that is on one of his spread sheets!! Therefore I am sure we will be proactive this January providing the talent is available at a price we consider justifiable.

Changing tactics/ formations would be a massive undertaking bearing in mind that day on day the coaches have no idea who will be available either to train or actually play in a match. All that can be done is to juggle the available players and try and create a cohesive unit. The late changes in personnel could also be an underlying reason for poor starts to games.

I look forward to our European campaign but, as my Dad used to say: “ you need to learn to walk before you can run”
 

aslan

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I don't think looking backwards 15 years helps the team. You can live only in the present and future, and right now, the future looks like a return to the Championship 6+ years of hard work (counting from Feb 2015 when the overhaul happened) to get up to the top flight only to get relegated immediately at the end of the season...there's some perspective for you. TF needs to start being less tactically naive and start trying different formations and different players against different teams. Sticking to this 3-5-2 system without the players to play his "play from the back" style is costing Brentford games and with it, points. I'd like a minimum of a decade's stay in the top flight, the money that comes with it to bring in some higher quality players and making a run at the Europa League/CL spots. For me, that's the definition of progress
With all due respect, please don't post b***ocks like this and get behind the boys.
You hadn't heard of us 15yrs ago, nevermind "in the trenches" with us, so I don't think you have much right to be talking like that.
Not sure how 10yrs of solidation in the league is your definition of progress, but looking back to where we were 15yrs ago is too far?
 
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Actually they were below us.
Yes
Whoops! 😆🤷‍♂️
Still think expecting to beat Brighton is a bit bonkers - expecting to beat anyone in this league is
 

Voice from the Braemar

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Maybe when you sober up the future will look a little less bleak! ;)

Norwich and Newcastle are both down. Which means Bees only need to finish above one other team to avoid relegation. And seeing as 20 points from 17 games has another 5 teams below us, plus another two above catchable if we win our game in hand, then Bees have every chance of surviving once we get over our present injury crisis.

A couple of new signings in January would help, too.

"Nil Desperandum!"
Norwich are down ….Newcastle defo not especially if they get a result tonight….Norwich for me are the ONLY certainties….anybody from next 6 or 7 are in the frame….Watford more than most 👍
 

UtrechtBee

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With all due respect, please don't post b***ocks like this and get behind the boys.
You hadn't heard of us 15yrs ago, nevermind "in the trenches" with us, so I don't think you have much right to be talking like that.
Not sure how 10yrs of solidation in the league is your definition of progress, but looking back to where we were 15yrs ago is too far?
I'm always behind the boys. My criticism is mainly of the rigidity of 3-5-2 system with the same team sheet and lack of players to execute them right now. All I'm suggesting is that TF considers changing things up in pursuit of results (including the formation and a couple of players moved around). Not once have I criticised the players directly - I know they're working their socks off in a tough league and I'm under no illusions there.

I think a sustained stay in the PL is considered a fairly standard definition of progress by any team that's outside the "top 6", don't you?

Yes, I think 15 years ago is rather far back considering the big change that was announced 6 years ago by Matthew Benham to shake up the club's entire setup and clearly he's setting the bar really high. Beating Arsenal on the opening day is the bar I'm looking at now - that's evolution, that's growth, that's maturity.
 

aslan

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I'm always behind the boys. My criticism is mainly of the rigidity of 3-5-2 system with the same team sheet and lack of players to execute them right now. All I'm suggesting is that TF considers changing things up in pursuit of results (including the formation and a couple of players moved around). Not once have I criticised the players directly - I know they're working their socks off in a tough league and I'm under no illusions there.

I think a sustained stay in the PL is considered a fairly standard definition of progress by any team that's outside the "top 6", don't you?

Yes, I think 15 years ago is rather far back considering the big change that was announced 6 years ago by Matthew Benham to shake up the club's entire setup and clearly he's setting the bar really high. Beating Arsenal on the opening day is the bar I'm looking at now - that's evolution, that's growth, that's maturity.
If you want to look forward ten years for your definition of progress, you should also be looking back 10yrs to see the current progression.
 

Zeeco

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Sorry, still can’t get how people think they looked ‘comfortable’.
In the space of 10 minutes in the 2nd half, their keeper made 2 fantastic saves, they made an incredible clearance off the line, and we should have had a penalty.
By contrast, Fernández had 1 save to make in the 2nd half……
Probably because once they went two goals ahead, they took the pedal off and dropped a gear, they just looked for the counter, had we have pulled a goal back, getting a third, looked likely.
 

Peteseeger

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Some posters on here need to realise the difference between doing a ‘Tarkowski’ ie not being arsed and not playing well/giving a 100%.

There were certainly several players last night who didn’t perform well and I suspect this was for a variety of reasons. I certainly would not accuse any of them of not being arsed. In fact, I would suggest that some were maybe trying too hard. We have been struck by injuries and Covid and I suspect some of those last night were not 100% fit and/or healthy. Hence the flat performance.

As to whether some of the players we put out are possibly not good enough (or consistently good enough) for the premier league is something for our management team to sort out. But I will always support any player that puts on a Brentford shirt I and goes on the pitch and at least tries to give a 100%. We have players like Jensen and Ghoddas who can be extremely frustrating at times but I believe they are trying their best.

Unless a player has specifically expressed their reluctance to play ala Tarkowski then it makes no sense for a player not be ‘arsed’.
 

badgerbee

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Probably because once they went two goals ahead, they took the pedal off and dropped a gear, they just looked for the counter, had we have pulled a goal back, getting a third, looked likely.
No-one has any idea how things would have panned out if we'd pulled back to 1-2.
BHA, not won in 12 games, nerves kick in, we were on top for most of the second half..........
It was probably as "likely" that we would have equalised, as it was that they would have got a third.............

Just find it amusing that people think a team will "throttle down" because they're winning, which ends up presenting the opposition with chances to come back into the game......
They might pscyhologically do it, because they think the game is won, but there's no reason whatsoever to do it deliberately/conciously.........
 

mhead bee

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Probably because once they went two goals ahead, they took the pedal off and dropped a gear, they just looked for the counter, had we have pulled a goal back, getting a third, looked likely.

They were hanging on, if one of our 5-6 chances went in they would have crumbled and we would have thrown the kitchen sink last 15-20.
 

IslandBee

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Yes
Whoops! 😆🤷‍♂️
Still think expecting to beat Brighton is a bit bonkers - expecting to beat anyone in this league is

I completely agree - I actually don't think we are clear favourites in any game we play this season. It is worth remembering that every other team in this league finished in a higher position last season and (I think) assembled their teams for this one at much greater expense.
 

Shamrock_Bee

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Maybe when you sober up the future will look a little less bleak! ;)

Norwich and Newcastle are both down. Which means Bees only need to finish above one other team to avoid relegation. And seeing as 20 points from 17 games has another 5 teams below us, plus another two above catchable if we win our game in hand, then Bees have every chance of surviving once we get over our present injury crisis.

A couple of new signings in January would help, too.

"Nil Desperandum!"

Newcastle will stay up this season, come back to this post at the end of the season, if I'm wrong I'd be delighted if it means we survive but I don't see Newcastle being one of the three to go despite how it currently looks 😀
 

Zeeco

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They were hanging on, if one of our 5-6 chances went in they would have crumbled and we would have thrown the kitchen sink last 15-20.
They were close to adding a couple themselves, it wasn't one way traffic with them hanging on.
 

TorbayBee

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I completely agree - I actually don't think we are clear favourites in any game we play this season. It is worth remembering that every other team in this league finished in a higher position last season and (I think) assembled their teams for this one at much greater expense.
That sums it up very well. As said on another forum in this league wins or even points for clubs our size are hugely precious that why for me our current total is excellent. All we need to do at season end is finish top of the 4 team mini competition at the bottom of the league. I am as guilty as anyone of over reacting to defeats but we all knew from the outset that we would be on the receiving end of yhings.
To be honest I have been shocked at the difference from the Championship of the standard , quality and financial resources available to many clubs in this league. I kind of knew it in principle but up close its mind boggling.
 

Ealing Bee

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Newcastle will stay up this season, come back to this post at the end of the season, if I'm wrong I'd be delighted if it means we survive but I don't see Newcastle being one of the three to go despite how it currently looks 😀
I'll come back all right - but I doubt I'll have to wait until the last day! :LOL:

Easter perhaps?
 

Hippobee

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They were hanging on, if one of our 5-6 chances went in they would have crumbled and we would have thrown the kitchen sink last 15-20.
Maybe. We'll never know. We threw the kitchen sink in league games against Norwich, Leicester and Chelsea and got no points. In this league, you have to make the most of chances you get. In fact, we didn't score at home to them either, with a better team. We have got to stop giving ourselves mountains to climb by going behind.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Spot on. We have to cut out the “dithering momentarily” (followed by a hospital pass to another player who is by then closely marked) and learn to drive forward, turning with the ball if necessary. All the good players in other teams, shield the ball with upper body strength, and then drive forward. Driving forward creates gaps. Wissa showed glimpses of doing this well.
Yes! Just imagine if we had Josh Dasilva! Missing piece in the jigsaw to link middle with forwards?
 
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kaebess

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To me it’s simple.

fit squad, fit first 15, we have enough and will stay up.
injuries persist we struggle.

No body wants to play inferior football.

I don’t know the stats but very few play off winner have had 20 points at this point in the season.

back the team and the 11 players that are asked to take the pitch.
 

BuzzingBee95

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No, Finn is our future, Thompson isn’t
That is actually the point I was making. Given that Thompson only has marginally more experience, not enough to put him ahead of Finn, you can’t therefore say that Finn can’t be used because he’s too young and has no prem experience
 

Mr Cynical

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They were hanging on, if one of our 5-6 chances went in they would have crumbled and we would have thrown the kitchen sink last 15-20.
They were in no shape or form 'hanging' on. We had a 5 minute spell when a few balls into the box caused them problems but after that they saw the game out at a canter..
 

Mr Cynical

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Yes! Just imagine if we had Josh Dasilva! Missing piece in the jigsaw to link middle with forwards?
Think we'd still need another first choice in midfield. Need to up the general level on the ball to Norgaard's standard as a minimum..
 

Gee Bee

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The point iswe were always going to get injuries and suspensions just like most teams. Imo we never signed enough to address this pre season.
We have a dozen injured most of whom have performed well earlier in season. You name a 25 man squad how many players do you expect us to sign and not play?
 
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That is actually the point I was making. Given that Thompson only has marginally more experience, not enough to put him ahead of Finn, you can’t therefore say that Finn can’t be used because he’s too young and has no prem experience
I think the point is that Stevens has more of a future here than DT and is having his confidence protected.
 

Ace Face

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"When we win we don't pop the champagne corks, when we lose we don't pop the pills." Martin Allen
 

RAF_Patto

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Just find it amusing that people think a team will "throttle down" because they're winning, which ends up presenting the opposition with chances to come back into the game......
They might pscyhologically do it, because they think the game is won, but there's no reason whatsoever to do it deliberately/conciously.........
Is this a wind up, or do you genuinely not get football? 🤔
 

BudleighBee

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You are completely missing my point.
Which was simply certain people writing off the performance as “awful”, so I’m trying to achieve a sense of perspective.
It certainly wasn’t a “good” performance (we have been spoiled over the last few seasons) but considering how depleted the squad is right now, a decent shift was put in for the 2nd half.
Agree completely. The second half was a vastly improved performance and we probably deserved to reduce the arrears. That is what we need to aim for, making full use of our depleted resources and making a fight of it to the best of our abilities. If we had done the same in the first half (not even that actually as the first 10 minutes was good) then we could have got something last night. In this league playing well for an hour will not 'cut the mustard'. We have to be at it for the full 90 minutes and even then we will often need some good fortune. It's hard, we knew it would be and we just have to make sure we give ourselves every chance.
 
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