Budget this season = performance = money to spend ?

kaebess

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what income did the club budget for this season? I don’t know and if anyone on here does, they ain’t going to share anyway.

I’m guessing about £ 105 million. This is made up of 17th place, minimal TV appearance, plus the money all receive. ( not 100% sure on previous sell on clauses etc, still due but would not be a big impact on this figure ).

Phil in his interview said we had the smallest budget but we’re about 50 % salary income based.

Players signed, again you hear all the different values. I’m saying 45 million.

Running costs, fuel for the yacht etc, will be somewhere around the balance of 10 million.

Concusion, we are there or there about, all in on budget. I am sure MB would always make the right long term call but he has always said the club needs to be self funding.

The difference being seen is,

With each extra TV appearance and extra league position above this, combined being worth CIRCA 3 million. Real possibility of an extra 10 games live, finishing mid table, there is the possibility of an extra 25 to 30 million income to be gained this year. It’s a results business.

Will the club stick or twist ? What do all the numbers say?

please pull all this apart
 

hobbsy

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There are lots of additional operational costs too, for example we have hired 25 more staff since promotion, excluding casual labour.
 

rebus

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There are lots of additional operational costs too, for example we have hired 25 more staff since promotion, excluding casual labour.
Exactly. Plus staff and player bonuses in the summer, the pay back of EFL loan and stadium upgrade for the Prem were not small beer.

Having written this, I don’t expect the need for MB to wire money to BFC’s account any time soon given our elevation in status.
 

LingfieldBee

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Don't see more than 2, signings in January and generally we don't do business in January always a inflated market.

Maybe right wing back cover where we seemed to miss out in the summer. But can't see much more than that. Our fringe/squad players have shown when called upon can perform. Maybe more outs Valencia et al.
 

Gazza Bee

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what income did the club budget for this season? I don’t know and if anyone on here does, they ain’t going to share anyway.

I’m guessing about £ 105 million. This is made up of 17th place, minimal TV appearance, plus the money all receive. ( not 100% sure on previous sell on clauses etc, still due but would not be a big impact on this figure ).

Phil in his interview said we had the smallest budget but we’re about 50 % salary income based.

Players signed, again you hear all the different values. I’m saying 45 million.

Running costs, fuel for the yacht etc, will be somewhere around the balance of 10 million.

Concusion, we are there or there about, all in on budget. I am sure MB would always make the right long term call but he has always said the club needs to be self funding.

The difference being seen is,

With each extra TV appearance and extra league position above this, combined being worth CIRCA 3 million. Real possibility of an extra 10 games live, finishing mid table, there is the possibility of an extra 25 to 30 million income to be gained this year. It’s a results business.

Will the club stick or twist ? What do all the numbers say?

please pull all this apart
Depends on whether you are looking at cashflow or P&L - for example player purchases will be amortised over the length of their contract so the costs will be smaller in the P&L compared to cashflow so the P&L and B/S will look better for 2021/22. I'd be interested to see the cashflow forecast for this season but I don't see any issues at all given the upturn in revenue received from EPL - however the main thing is to keep the club on an even keel so we cannot just splash out money willy nilly.
 

Jay Bee

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It is always worth saying in case anyone is not aware that the minimum TV money for one season in the PL is £105m, and in our last published accounts in the Championship it was £7m. It is a crazy different world. But we were funded in the Championship and will not be now.

Interesting you say budgeting for 17th place. Surely we will have budgeted for 20th place and the consequences of that? I.e. 2 years parachute money (circa £60m) with contracts to honour from that as well as funding the next promotion bid.

Self funding is a subjective term anyway and I wonder how that would be interpreted in practice. Self funding from the start of the latest accounts, or does MB want his previous investment back in a few years if the PL money keeps coming in?

Other complex questions:

Guardian football weekly mentioned this week that us and Leeds have the lowest wage bills in the PL (based on somewhat out of date info) - do we expect that to continue or will would more income and success mean we will climb this ladder.... in a responsible way?

Are we still a selling club that attracts raw players as a springboard (who are relatively cheap), or are we now the destination where quality players will stay for 4-5 years (but cost more?)? Or a bit of both?
 

AB

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It is always worth saying in case anyone is not aware that the minimum TV money for one season in the PL is £105m, and in our last published accounts in the Championship it was £7m. It is a crazy different world. But we were funded in the Championship and will not be now.

Interesting you say budgeting for 17th place. Surely we will have budgeted for 20th place and the consequences of that? I.e. 2 years parachute money (circa £60m) with contracts to honour from that as well as funding the next promotion bid.

Self funding is a subjective term anyway and I wonder how that would be interpreted in practice. Self funding from the start of the latest accounts, or does MB want his previous investment back in a few years if the PL money keeps coming in?

Other complex questions:

Guardian football weekly mentioned this week that us and Leeds have the lowest wage bills in the PL (based on somewhat out of date info) - do we expect that to continue or will would more income and success mean we will climb this ladder.... in a responsible way?

Are we still a selling club that attracts raw players as a springboard (who are relatively cheap), or are we now the destination where quality players will stay for 4-5 years (but cost more?)? Or a bit of both?
I think you’re right about budgeting for 20th. I’m sure in the past we also budgeted on the basis of exiting cups at the first game. Obviously both are distinct from how we are managed on field and the targets being set for football performance.

Regarding being a selling club I think this was summed up by the DoFs. We and everyone short of Man City and PSG are selling clubs to some extent. But the change we’ve had over the years has been to whom we aim to sell. Now the target is for our players to develop to the point top 6 teams want to buy them for top dollar. We’ve not spent £13m or thereabouts on Ajer to let him run his deal down- we want and expect him in a couple of seasons to go for VVD money. We will surely be expecting to sell Toney for £50m+. The operational question is whether we can go from turning £3m into £30m to turning £10m into £50-60m and keep on doing so.
 

Banana

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It is always worth saying in case anyone is not aware that the minimum TV money for one season in the PL is £105m,
By my personal analysis, finishing 17th with 10 games televised gets you £103m. However Brentford FC have had to pay a Covid Tax of £8m (all the other PL clubs paid it 2 seasons ago - included Watford and Norwich), so we get £95m net. Only the club that finishes rock bottom will get less.

My understanding is that, on the above basis (i.e. 17th and 10 games on TV, and with no changes in the squad) we end up with money in the bank at the end of the season.

As rebus says, we have had to pay out lots on promotion to the players, clubs that we have bought players from, and an EFL loan. There's no way we've spent £45m on incoming transfers either. We are certainly on the lowest playing budget this season, especially considering the other two promoted clubs were on parachute payments last season.

I suspect the goal is to get through this season and then use the revenues from next season to strengthen the squad. We all know we looked (relatively) weak on the bench last weekend, so we need more resilience against injuries and the inevitable suspensions. If we can bring in 3-4 players next season that don't look out of place in the PL, that, I thought, would be the goal/ambition.
 

Beecareful

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good post. and possibly borrow a player or two in January 2022 if needs be? Or is that a no no ?
 

AB

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good post. and possibly borrow a player or two in January 2022 if needs be? Or is that a no no ?
The club takes the view individual players in make much less difference to how we’ll end up than fans think. Phil G when talking about dropping out if buying Wissa in January put his expected impact at 1-2% last season and so not worth going the extra mile on a bid for.

If we’ve a hole to fill, as we did last season with Pontus out without a proven and fit CB and bringing Reid in to cover, I think we could loan but otherwise no.
 

N5022N122

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In response to hobbsy i thought we had premier league readied the ground?. What did we have to do extra?
 

ruislip bee

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Exactly. Plus staff and player bonuses in the summer, the pay back of EFL loan and stadium upgrade for the Prem were not small beer.

Having written this, I don’t expect the need for MB to wire money to BFC’s account any time soon given our elevation in status.
And new bank loan.....
 

AB

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In response to hobbsy i thought we had premier league readied the ground?. What did we have to do extra?
Sounds like more people. We might not have been selling out every league game in the Championship so would have needed fewer matchday staff.
 

hobbsy

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New COVID rules for a start. Which has also entailed extra press box seats...

Which meant extra staff needed to look after all the extra media in attendance.
 

Invipai

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Yeah, we'd be as Premier League ready as we can, but they can change regulations whenever they want, which would affect us and all other 19 clubs.

I believe Phil said in the GPG interview (at least I think it was there) that our wage budget was about 50% of our income, which is pretty good in football. It's not something I expect to last though as contracts are renewed and new players are signed. I concur with others that the basic plan is 'get through season 1, and then us the extra budget that season 2 offers in order to start to progress the club'. Bare in mind we'd also be guaranteed an extra year of parachute payments should we enter a second year in the Prem, so can budget that as guaranteed income.

I think we'll also sign 3-4 players of good quality next summer, and hopefully strengthen us year by year rather than in one go.
 

fencer/bee

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I hope we able to sign or loan at least 2 quality players in the January window , the injury's are stacking up , the bench looked pretty weak yesterday , i know MB said no big money signings coming , if thats the case it could well be a very tough second half of the season :eek:
 

beebopalula

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I hope we able to sign or loan at least 2 quality players in the January window , the injury's are stacking up , the bench looked pretty weak yesterday , i know MB said no big money signings coming , if thats the case it could well be a very tough second half of the season :eek:
I think the tough bit may be here now.We are going into a run of fixtures where ordinarily we could expect to pick up points. Unfortunately we seem to be building up a bit of an issue with injuries and our lack of squad depth may bite us.Hopefully not.
 

RAF_Patto

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I think if it's looking highly likely we are safe, then I can't see us splashing out in January. As already mentioned, it is an inflated market at this time, so may be worth waiting until summer to buy.

I can see one or two outgoings over any real incomings, but as I say, depends on position and percentage chances of staying up.
 

jlove

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It's more likely that any signing we make in January will be for next season unless injuries determine an essential recruit for a specific role. If things go to plan, any or all of Baptiste, Dasilva, Sørensen, together with Janelt and Wissa who should be earlier, should be able to contribute, and there's even Jeanvier if we're short of centre backs!
 

ruislip bee

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I hope we able to sign or loan at least 2 quality players in the January window , the injury's are stacking up , the bench looked pretty weak yesterday , i know MB said no big money signings coming , if thats the case it could well be a very tough second half of the season :eek:
Thing is we can't. Unless we transfer out players first. We have our 25 man squad.
 

StevieSteve

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Thing is we can't. Unless we transfer out players first. We have our 25 man squad.
I understood it that the 25-man squad in Jan is independent of the one in Sept.
So you don't have to sell members of the current squad, just not include them
 

jlove

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I understood it that the 25-man squad in Jan is independent of the one in Sept.
So you don't have to sell members of the current squad, just not include them
And we have Fosu, Jeanvier and Valencia as flex.
 

ruislip bee

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I understood it that the 25-man squad in Jan is independent of the one in Sept.
So you don't have to sell members of the current squad, just not include them
Oh right. So the unwanted just get binned off and we sign more players?
 

AB

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Oh right. So the unwanted just get binned off and we sign more players?
I think if we sign more players and take away the squad numbers of some currently holding them it gives them a clear indication that while they can pick up their pay to the end of their contracts they’d be better negotiating a move if they want an ongoing career.
 

JCMcBee

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I think if it's looking highly likely we are safe, then I can't see us splashing out in January. As already mentioned, it is an inflated market at this time, so may be worth waiting until summer to buy.

I can see one or two outgoings over any real incomings, but as I say, depends on position and percentage chances of staying up.
.... highly likely we are safe.....safe from what... relegation I assume....a tad previous I would suggest.....but think you're right....either way......MB won't splash out in January.......stick or twist.
 

FJBee

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Which would mean our wage bill is about £50m.
Seems slightly barmy that it could be that high so soon, especially given it couldn’t have been that high in the Championship and no contracts have been renewed yet.

What would the wage bill have been last year? £20m? That’d be £380k a week which seems probably too high.

I assume that means there were probably quite a lot of automatic pay rises in most of our contracts, even still can’t see how it would have gotten so high so quickly.
 

Banana

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Seems slightly barmy that it could be that high so soon, especially given it couldn’t have been that high in the Championship and no contracts have been renewed yet.

What would the wage bill have been last year? £20m? That’d be £380k a week which seems probably too high.

I assume that means there were probably quite a lot of automatic pay rises in most of our contracts, even still can’t see how it would have gotten so high so quickly.
It would have got high very quickly as all the players contracts will have had wages depending on what league we play in.
 
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beesbees_bfc

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.... highly likely we are safe.....safe from what... relegation I assume....a tad previous I would suggest.....but think you're right....either way......MB won't splash out in January.......stick or twist.
He said if it’s looking like we’re safe when the transfer window opens, not that he thinks it’s highly likely we’re safe now.
 

AB

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It would have got high very quickly as all the players contracts will have had wages depending on what league we play in.
Without them we’d have had all the best players strongly looking for a move last summer or needing new contracts at even higher rates so instead of focusing on getting a few new players in we’d have been negotiating with the current squad.
 

JCMcBee

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He said if it’s looking like we’re safe when the transfer window opens, not that he thinks it’s highly likely we’re safe now.
....yeah....I know....misread what the man said.... apologies.
 

FJBee

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It would have got high very quickly as all the players contracts will have had wages depending on what league we play in.
That's what I said in the last line of my post!

Roughly, that would indicate the contracts had 80%+ increases written in, which seems very steep!
 

AB

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That's what I said in the last line of my post!

Roughly, that would indicate the contracts had 80%+ increases written in, which seems very steep!
Depends how much they were in the Championship. Iirc we had a relatively low total wage bill by Championship standards so a big uplift on promotion would be unavoidable. We might have agreed big contractual uplifts for players who’d been at the club a long time without renegotiation as when they came we’d been offering what would now be low for Championship wages but PL was considered a low probability when they arrived (eg say Rico and Sergi if they’re still on deals from 2018 or based on ones before that).
 
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