Club's Offer to Premium Seats Holders and Season Tickets Holders

Status
Not open for further replies.

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
10,506
Reaction score
395
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
It is terribly sad.

The club has also created this problem for itself. It should’ve suspended ST sales in March but instead it carried on promoting and selling tickets either ignorant of or completely disregarding the fact it was flogging a product it would never be able to deliver.
August seemed a long time away in March and deciding not to attempt to get any revenue at just the time when they were immediately going to lose a lot would have been brave.
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
59
Reaction score
29
It is terribly sad.

The club has also created this problem for itself. It should’ve suspended ST sales in March but instead it carried on promoting and selling tickets either ignorant of or completely disregarding the fact it was flogging a product it would never be able to deliver.
I don't think the club were wrong to sell season tickets; in fact by March a number had been sold. What did surprise me was continuing to collect installments.

I remember a Q&A session with JV where he said he'd suggested a slight delay in installments and was waiting for cash flow assessment to confirm if it was possible - even this was only a months delay.

I found this strange as really by that stage there should have been a complete halt on installments as it was clear what was happening. The club continued to push for installments even giving a deadline of the 31st August if you wanted to be considered for this season's games.

I know of clubs who have sold "virtual" ST's - the new stadium complicated our situation as we had sold tickets so early in the year. To be fair to the club goverance might be easier with all the installments paid in terms of options. However the push for fans to pay was strange as most people if they were honest knew fans wouldn't be returning until at least 2021.

The benefit the club have is they can try and sell Ifollow access along with a gift for the price of the full ST. Fans wouldn't pay the cost of ST for Ifollow access but the club's sale pitch will kick in as the money is already with the club so they'll try and tempt as many as possible.
 

GABS

Active member
Joined
17 Apr 2000
Messages
7,116
Reaction score
73
The benefit the club have is they can try and sell Ifollow access along with a gift for the price of the full ST. Fans wouldn't pay the cost of ST for Ifollow access but the club's sale pitch will kick in as the money is already with the club so they'll try and tempt as many as possible.
I'm not sure that makes much sense??
 

rebus

Chin Laden
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,324
Reaction score
328
Location
Leytonstone / Ilford
the new stadium complicated our situation as we had sold tickets so early in the year. T
It's actually eased the situation for the club. They've banked millions of pounds worth of revenue 90 per cent of others have not.

The law is pretty clear on this given there has been a break in contractual obligations. If you're a Premium seat holder and say struggling for money or a change in circumstances you can walk away from the five-year deal and claim all your money back, even if it has to be through the courts.

The club weighted the original offer towards Premium seat holders as they are terrified of supporters doing that.
 

Guildford Bee

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2000
Messages
12,871
Reaction score
331
Location
Caterham
August seemed a long time away in March and deciding not to attempt to get any revenue at just the time when they were immediately going to lose a lot would have been brave.
While this is true, the rhetoric should've been toned down. All through lockdown they continued to push the "secure your seat for the historic" first season narrative when it was abundantly clear by the that point that games would at the very least be restricted. While it's the case that fans also knew - or should've known - what they were getting themselves into, the club had a duty, IMO, to make it clear they were unlikely to see a 23 games live. But that was never even hinted at.
 

Wise old Bee

El Viejo Zorro Plateado
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
8,278
Reaction score
113
Location
Sudbury Hill
The club had us by the balls as nobody wanted to miss out on what could have been a first season at LR - in the Premier League. In the past I would never have bought a ST knowing I wasn't going to see many games but it was different this time.
 

Bixer

Active member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
41
Location
Isleworth
Full refund it is.

Not overly concerned about being put to the back of any queues or whatever now if I'm honest.
 

Guildford Bee

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2000
Messages
12,871
Reaction score
331
Location
Caterham
Everyone's circumstances will be different.

I'll probably opt to defer as that way the club will keep the money (though will obviously be short next season) and I'm not fussed by ifollow. If we're in the promotion race the bulk of the games at the business end of the season will end up on Sky anyway.

I expect there may well still be some questions about whether grounds can be at capacity next season but we'll have to cross that bridge...
 

rebus

Chin Laden
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
25,324
Reaction score
328
Location
Leytonstone / Ilford
Everyone's circumstances will be different.

I'll probably opt to defer as that way the club will keep the money (though will obviously be short next season) and I'm not fussed by ifollow. If we're in the promotion race the bulk of the games at the business end of the season will end up on Sky anyway.

I expect there may well still be some questions about whether grounds can be at capacity next season but we'll have to cross that bridge...
Same here. Happy to keep the cash in the club but I'm lucky enough to be able to do that. The players are extremely well paid and they need to make some sort of gesture here.
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
10,506
Reaction score
395
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
While this is true, the rhetoric should've been toned down. All through lockdown they continued to push the "secure your seat for the historic" first season narrative when it was abundantly clear by the that point that games would at the very least be restricted. While it's the case that fans also knew - or should've known - what they were getting themselves into, the club had a duty, IMO, to make it clear they were unlikely to see a 23 games live. But that was never even hinted at.
It depends how far into the year you bought. I bought mine towards the end of July and they certainly did discuss the likelihood of the ground not being fully or partially open to fans for some time into the new season. It is why I didn’t bother going for one of the few remaining premium seats.

I don’t know how the sales went by date before that but suspect a large chunk were sold at early bird prices and early in lockdown or before season suspension. Those buying then will have had least info or awareness of the risk but also got the best prices and seat choices as well as having paid out and had their money held by the club longest. It looks like few cancelled even as things looked grim for the season restarting and potentially for their own finances. Those buying after April probably ought to have been aware of the risks and huge uncertainties even if there was nothing much the club could tell them.

I hope refunds/prepayments for 21-22 are given across the board with iFollow subscriptions an option and the balance returned in one of those ways and the position clarified. 20-21 STs could then be converted into a special category of membership linked to particular seats and given priority when buying tickets for seats for any matches to which fans are allowed to attend.
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
59
Reaction score
29
I'm not sure that makes much sense??
If we were told now the only product on offer was 23 games on Ifollow we wouldn't pay the club at least £395 for that product. However as that money is already banked by the club they'll make every effort to replace that season ticket money with Ifollow as "access to the bees".
 

nocoat

King of the Geeks
Joined
19 Jan 2001
Messages
47,525
Reaction score
172
Location
No longer my beloved NAM
The “what fans want - access to the Bees” is the worst sound bite since “we think that’s fair”
I still chuckle to myself and shake my head whenever it comes to mind. I can almost imagine being in a room as they were brainstorming it. It is so far from the reality of utter geezers that all bees fans are. They should have added "guys" in somewhere to appease @westwing but that apart it was simply terrific.
 

badgerbee

Mafeking Avenue........gets you there!!!!
Joined
28 Jan 2008
Messages
14,116
Reaction score
224
Location
Langport, Somerset
Do we know how long the player payments were deferred for?
Presumably their payments have resumed now? Has the 'deficit' been made up?
 
OP
Banana

Banana

Occasionally incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
71,012
Reaction score
1,413
Location
London
Do we know how long the player payments were deferred for?
Presumably their payments have resumed now? Has the 'deficit' been made up?
Why do you presume that they have been resumed? What's changed?
 

Simon C

Moderator
Joined
6 Feb 2001
Messages
18,313
Reaction score
199
Location
'slow
Why do you presume that they have been resumed? What's changed?
I think most people expected them to be deferred while there were no matches being played. e.g. normal people who can't work had furlough, football players had age deferrals
 

moribee

moribee
Joined
6 Apr 2000
Messages
6,859
Reaction score
74
Location
East Colnbrook
I don't think the club were wrong to sell season tickets; in fact by March a number had been sold. What did surprise me was continuing to collect installments.

I remember a Q&A session with JV where he said he'd suggested a slight delay in installments and was waiting for cash flow assessment to confirm if it was possible - even this was only a months delay.

I found this strange as really by that stage there should have been a complete halt on installments as it was clear what was happening. The club continued to push for installments even giving a deadline of the 31st August if you wanted to be considered for this season's games.

I know of clubs who have sold "virtual" ST's - the new stadium complicated our situation as we had sold tickets so early in the year. To be fair to the club goverance might be easier with all the installments paid in terms of options. However the push for fans to pay was strange as most people if they were honest knew fans wouldn't be returning until at least 2021.

The benefit the club have is they can try and sell Ifollow access along with a gift for the price of the full ST. Fans wouldn't pay the cost of ST for Ifollow access but the club's sale pitch will kick in as the money is already with the club so they'll try and tempt as many as possible.
I Follow is not suitable for all
 

badgerbee

Mafeking Avenue........gets you there!!!!
Joined
28 Jan 2008
Messages
14,116
Reaction score
224
Location
Langport, Somerset
Why do you presume that they have been resumed? What's changed?
Just assumed it wasn't an indefinite deferral.....
I would imagine they've got mortgages/bills to pay like everyone else, and their budgeting wouldn't allow for months of not being paid.....
Said clearly had an expensive holiday to pay for too.....
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
59
Reaction score
29
I Follow is not suitable for all
I agree it's not suitable but the club will try to persuade us it is. Boris has just announced his latest restrictions will be in place for 6 months and the only changes before then will be to increase them if required. So enough is enough it's time the club made public their offer because there is no chance of fans returning to at least March 2021 so they can't delay their statement any longer.
 
OP
Banana

Banana

Occasionally incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
71,012
Reaction score
1,413
Location
London
I agree it's not suitable but the club will try to persuade us it is. Boris has just announced his latest restrictions will be in place for 6 months and the only changes before then will be to increase them if required. So enough is enough it's time the club made public their offer because there is no chance of fans returning to at least March 2021 so they can't delay their statement any longer.
They just found that out in the last hour. Give them a ****ing chance :ROFLMAO: 😴
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
10,506
Reaction score
395
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
I Follow is not suitable for all
It isn't any use for those in households with more than one ST for the other ST holders. There are probably also a small minority who don't have access to a computer or tablet and whose eyesight isn't up to watching on a smartphone even if they have one. Otherwise it is a preference not to use it rather than it being unsuitable. If you have a computer or tablet and happily watch youtube videos, Now TV's Sky games or the Quest highlights (or the dodgy streams like hesgoal if you are naughty and don't mind saucy ads) I don't think iFollow is unsuitable, even if it is a bit fiddly to use.
 

Shamrock_Bee

Member
Joined
18 Aug 2020
Messages
59
Reaction score
29
They just found that out in the last hour. Give them a ****ing chance :ROFLMAO: 😴
True fair enough lol but we've been told the offers have been discussed and decided but they wanted to wait for further guidance so surely the statement can be released in the next 24 hours or so 😄
 

Gazza Bee

Active member
Joined
27 Jan 2001
Messages
7,102
Reaction score
149
Location
City: Sunbury State: Surrey
I'm not interested in I follow.either want mine differed to next season or a full refund.
Yep with no prospect of seeing live games until March unfortunately I'd rather defer and pay on a game by game basis for iFollow which I guess actually benefits the club
 

GABS

Active member
Joined
17 Apr 2000
Messages
7,116
Reaction score
73
They just found that out in the last hour. Give them a ****ing chance :ROFLMAO: 😴
Plan A, small % of fans returning. Plan B, fans not returning at all.

Both options have been equally as likely for weeks if not months now. The club have had plenty of time to create a plan and comms for both and I expect them to have done so. There is zero excuse to not be releasing the final comms and plan this afternoon.

I certainly wouldn't get away without this basic level of planning ahead and comms skills in my role at work. As such I hold the club to similar standards for all this ticketing malarkey.
 

Ealing Bee

Active member
Joined
5 Jun 2002
Messages
9,398
Reaction score
329
Location
Now Chiswick (proud to be a YIMBY)
On this question of player wage cuts/deferrals, tbf to the club aiui they were in a very difficult position contractually.

For I think that if they were to demand players take a wage cut then that is actually breechng the players' contracts.

Which would mean that any player could walk away on a free.

And while I'm not saying any of them would actually have done so, the threat eg to £28m for OW and maybe the same again for SB, is simply too big a risk to take, hence the deferrals.

Whereas the contractual position of non-playing staff does not carry any such risk.
 
OP
Banana

Banana

Occasionally incorrect
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
71,012
Reaction score
1,413
Location
London
Plan A, small % of fans returning. Plan B, fans not returning at all.

Both options have been equally as likely for weeks if not months now. The club have had plenty of time to create a plan and comms for both and I expect them to have done so. There is zero excuse to not be releasing the final comms and plan this afternoon.

I certainly wouldn't get away without this basic level of planning ahead and comms skills in my role at work. As such I hold the club to similar standards for all this ticketing malarkey.
Until yesterday fans were going to be let in next week. Now fans aren't going to be attending for 6 months.

I could have also come up with another set of scenarios that may or may not be "equally as likely". So hold-on with the hyperbole please.

Anyway, it appears that the club has proposals in the light of today's announcement, and within one hour of that announcement has sent it to BIAS for its consideration. So maybe, just maybe, they are doing as you asked.

"zero excuse"? :ROFLMAO: I hope you have such a demanding manager.:censored:
 

GABS

Active member
Joined
17 Apr 2000
Messages
7,116
Reaction score
73
Until yesterday fans were going to be let in next week. Now fans aren't going to be attending for 6 months.

I could have also come up with another set of scenarios that may or may not be "equally as likely". So hold-on with the hyperbole please.

Anyway, it appears that the club has proposals in the light of today's announcement, and within one hour of that announcement has sent it to BIAS for its consideration. So maybe, just maybe, they are doing as you asked.

"zero excuse"? :ROFLMAO: I hope you have such a demanding manager.:censored:
I know I'm correct but I'll allow you an opinion 😉
 

Ealing Bee

Active member
Joined
5 Jun 2002
Messages
9,398
Reaction score
329
Location
Now Chiswick (proud to be a YIMBY)
Well that's the shortest post of yours ever by some margin ;)
Who knows what button l pushed o_O, but what l was going to say in response to AB (#432) was that even if you have the requisite lT skills and access etc, there is no way a voucher selling at £10 is a valid substitute for a match ticket selling at £20+.

And that's just the financial pov. lf watching on your phone or TV was as enjoyable an experience as attending, then no-one would ever go to a live game when they could watch at home or in the pub.

lt's like fixing up a date with Maggie Gyllenhall, then finding she is sending her brother Jake instead. (n)
 

LingfieldBee

Active member
Joined
15 May 2007
Messages
3,428
Reaction score
88
Location
St Marys Twickenham Uni!
I think with the current situation and the changing situation and defer to next season or refund can be the only option for most. I don't want to pay £400 for ifollow for a year and then lump up another £400 for next season.

Defer I will which should be a option. I'm not fussed about missing out on Ifollow.
 

Untouchable

Once called a bastard by a Judge
Joined
5 May 2014
Messages
1,633
Reaction score
400
That was just a deferral wasn't it, I think they could have taken a wage cut?
Yes it was "just" a deferral.
Other staff and contractors etc took a cut so I'd like to see the players do the same.
They "just" took deferrals too, no?
If playing staff deferred salary and non-playing staff took a real term cut then I am officially done with football lol
Some club staff were on furlough. Does anyone know if the club made a contribution to the amounts funded by central government?
 

AB

Well-known member
Joined
12 Apr 2000
Messages
10,506
Reaction score
395
Location
'Sunny' Leeds
Who knows what button l pushed o_O, but what l was going to say in response to AB (#432) was that even if you have the requisite lT skills and access etc, there is no way a voucher selling at £10 is a valid substitute for a match ticket selling at £20+.

And that's just the financial pov. lf watching on your phone or TV was as enjoyable an experience as attending, then no-one would ever go to a live game when they could watch at home or in the pub.

lt's like fixing up a date with Maggie Gyllenhall, then finding she is sending her brother Jake instead. (n)
In #413 I also said " I hope refunds/prepayments for 21-22 are given across the board with iFollow subscriptions an option and the balance returned" so yes, I agree, getting £10 worth of iFollow for £20 worth of ST is not adequate, but could be part of the offer. My comment in #432 was about the idea that iFollow is not suitable and querying that when it is not really different from other ways of watching on a screen which anyone with the IT ability and kit to post on here is perfectly well able to do. Of course it isn't as good, but then absolutely nothing is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom