Condition of the Pitch

rodders

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The pitch looked awful but seemed to play ok. Seems very shortsighted if as claimed by some proper modern drainage was not installed.. Have we got under soil heating for when frost and snow come?
 

hobbsy

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The pitch looked awful but seemed to play ok. Seems very shortsighted if as claimed by some proper modern drainage was not installed.. Have we got under soil heating for when frost and snow come?
Drainage was installed, there's a massive tank under the pitch, the drone has some nice photos.

And yes we have undersoil heating otherwise we wouldn't be allowed in the Premier League.
 

Doovster

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It's a strange one. We have a very high camera angle compared to many clubs and from that height the pitch certainly looked very patchy in places. From lower angles the pitch looked fine.

The key thing for me was that the ball didn't appear to bobble nor skid which surprised me as I thought it would be awful to play on but we seemed to knock the ball around on the deck fine without hinderance.

Clearly work to be done but thankfully didn't seem to affect us, contrast to the floating pitch at GP that season.... #pitchgate
 

liverbee

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When I saw the video of the installation, I was reminded of the bargain turkish hair transplant a fellow recently showed me. As Doovster said, looks ok from pitch level.
 

The Pipe

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Whilst aesthetically it may have looked bad it did not, to my untutored eye, appear to cause any major issues. Whilst we all can comment I have no doubt that the club hierarchy are fully aware of how it is holding up and whether it will stand a full winter.

I don’t disagree that Rugby can’t help matters but any income streams are necessary for our long term survival, we are committed to 20 years I think and others will be aware just how much income that will produce for the club.

We are still little old Brentford punching well above our weight, we have got most things right in regards to players coaches etc but we are not a Man Utd with gazillions of pounds to splash away and sponsors clamouring at our doors, let’s get real accept for good or bad we have tenants and if the income derived from then makes us sustainable over the next couple of decades then that’s fantastic
 

Banana

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Got mixed feelings about this.... the pitch is knackered, no doubt. So is Swansea’s and so is Newport’s. Both also share with rugby clubs and both have Desso Grassmaster.

But then, Bristol City’s pitch is also a Grassmaster and looks fine, as is Huddersfield’s which looks ‘ok’ but that hasn’t had any RL played on it for two months. My Terriers supporting mate reckoned the pitch just about holds up during a season but isn’t anything great.
So, how do Bristol City keep theirs looking good? Better groundsman?
To your closing question....who knows?! But something is up. We don't generally f*** something up twice in a short space of time
 

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I thought the pitch looked like it was starting to cut in places before LI started playing there.

As an aside, I know that ‘nana posted this earlier

You can see damage on the top left - not even on the rugby pitch

View attachment 23522
Rugby subs do warm up off pitch behind the posts so it’s at least vaguely plausible that some if this damage may have been caused by Rugby boots.

In the round though, this pitch is meant to withstand football and rugby for a season (I can’t believe we would have entered into an arrangement with LI had we believed the pitch would look like this after 4 months) and other teams with similar arrangements and the same pitch design do not have this problem. Seems logical that the pitch damage cannot be attributed to sharing with LI.

Unfortunately it’s hard to see with the fixture schedule how anything major can be done before the summer. The ground staff are going to earn their corn between now and then.
 

Banana

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Do you accept that if no matches were played on the pitch whatsoever in the last month (football or rugby) it would probably be looking immaculate?
No. Where the linesmen run was looking crap after 2 matches.
 

BEEcool

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No. Where the linesmen run was looking crap after 2 matches.
All I’m saying about the rugby is that it is contributing to the wear and tear of the pitch thus making it worse. The same as the football is.
 

Banana

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All I’m saying about the rugby is that it may contributing to the wear and tear of the pitch thus making it worse. The same as the football is.
Well obviously it is. But that may be immaterial to the current poor state of the pitch.

There's the other factor as well (and I think this is a shared view reading previous posts), that it looks a lot worse than it plays. Maybe our high camera angles contribute to that perception.

It would be interesting to see if the club are as concerned as we are!
 

nick logan

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Well obviously it is. But that may be immaterial to the current poor state of the pitch.

There's the other factor as well (and I think this is a shared view reading previous posts), that it looks a lot worse than it plays. Maybe our high camera angles contribute to that perception.

It would be interesting to see if the club are as concerned as we are!
the close ups on telly and pics in the paper dont look nearly as bad as the high angle. Agree that it looked ok once rain stopped , and doubtfire didnt moan so must have been ok
 

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Considering the hectic schedule and crap weather, I thought it looked reasonably OK. Obviously far from perfect, but not an absolute basket case.

But what can we do about it if the pitch is slowly (quickly?) dying a death? Can we get it relaid? Is there time? What about Covid?

This is a complicated season. But I have trust in the club to find a solution.

As for rugby and ripping the pitch up, that only really happens on crap pitches. So if the pitch is crap, rugby will make it a lot worse. But if the pitch is in good condition, there's no reason that any marks made my the rugby shouldn't be fixed and ready for a game 2-3 days later.

Everyone back to Griffin Park for all matches until February, to allow LR pitch to be relaid. You know it makes sense !
 

BEEcool

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Well obviously it is. But that may be immaterial to the current poor state of the pitch.

There's the other factor as well (and I think this is a shared view reading previous posts), that it looks a lot worse than it plays. Maybe our high camera angles contribute to that perception.

It would be interesting to see if the club are as concerned as we are!
Ok, so now we’ve established that the rugby being played IS making it worse, I agree that if the pitch was a decent one from the outset, it should be able to handle the rugby without any major detrimental effect. Like Bristol City’s.
 

Banana

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Ok, so now we’ve established that the rugby being played IS making it worse,
I don't agree. You asked if rugby may contributing to the wear and tear of the pitch"

I do agree that the pitch should be able to handle what it is being asked to do, but it can't be cause it is a sh*t pitch. I expect it will be fixed,, but perhaps not this season.
 

BEEcool

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I don't agree. You asked if rugby may contributing to the wear and tear of the pitch"

I do agree that the pitch should be able to handle what it is being asked to do, but it can't be cause it is a sh*t pitch. I expect it will be fixed,, but perhaps not this season.
So wear and tear on the pitch isn't making it worse as things currently stand?

My original point is that both things being argued (generally sh*t pitch vs rugby making it worse) are both true. A decent pitch and rugby doesn't make it 'worse'. (Maybe a little bit.)

I think it might take a few goes to get it right and there'll be some crap ones along the way. As someone said earlier, ultimately it's a living organism and some of the variables you can't control.
 

BEEcool

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"wear and tear" is a condition that is generally acceptable. See the Cambridge Dictionary definition below:

wear and tear​
noun [ U ]
UK​
the damage that happens to an object in ordinary use during a period:​
And "acceptable" means "able to be agreed to or approved of"

Which given we've got a 6 page thread going regarding the condition of the pitch, and rugby making it worse, doesn't appear to ring true.
 

Alex

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the close ups on telly and pics in the paper dont look nearly as bad as the high angle. Agree that it looked ok once rain stopped , and doubtfire didnt moan so must have been ok
That was my thought too, if the pitch was a bad as it looked then doubtfire would have been usung that to divert the blame.
 

Leicester Bee

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I've tried searching, but can't find any exact details of the lease between LI and BFC. How many years is it for? What's the rent that they have to pay to us? I'll presume that there are some kind of break clauses in there that can be exercised, but as the deal only started this year, I won't be able to find it in our accounts. Does anyone know?
 

wanderer paul

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I've tried searching, but can't find any exact details of the lease between LI and BFC. How many years is it for? What's the rent that they have to pay to us? I'll presume that there are some kind of break clauses in there that can be exercised, but as the deal only started this year, I won't be able to find it in our accounts. Does anyone know?
LI signed a 20 year licence.


As for costs, that’s private.
 

Leicester Bee

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LI signed a 20 year licence.

As for costs, that’s private.
Thanks.

Licence or lease? If you mean a licence to occupy, then it's an easy deal for us. If it's a 20 year lease, then it's unlikely that there's a break clause until 5 years.

As for the rent, as it's linked to the start of the licence or lease which would have been part way through the financial year, it'll not be easy to decipher from the next audited accounts. Will likely have to wait till 2022 to really know.

I've read that they've made £1 million in sales revenue from corporate and season ticket sales (March 2020). Forecasts suggested that they need to average 14,000 in attendances to make any profit, after the owner lost £4 million last season.

That suggests pretty high overheads and whilst they might well expect decent crowds once they are let back in, I'm wondering how much rental payments to us will cost to them. Say they pay us £1.5 million a year, I think that would represent 10% of our own revenue (admittedly 2018/9 figures), so this represents pretty decent value for money in my opinion, so long as they are paying a portion of the overheads for the running costs of the stadium.

But, if they have received £1 million in corporate and season ticket revenue, and they do actually need to bring in 14,000 fans per game to break even, then how sustainable is London Irish as a going concern?
 

Voice from the Braemar

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YES for the 988th time.....you ever played rugby ?? ;) it fecks up every fkin surface it’s played on !!!! Please don’t keep up this denial it’s nothing to do with that strange sport that most aren’t interested in.....thanks
 

Banana

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YES for the 988th time.....you ever played rugby ?? ;) it fecks up every fkin surface it’s played on !!!! Please don’t keep up this denial it’s nothing to do with that strange sport that most aren’t interested in.....thanks
Go and have a look at Maidenhead RFCs 4G pitch and come back to me.
 

eddy bee

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Stoke's pitch is worn in places. check Rigby Taylor's maintenance calendar for football pitches they know what they are talking about they supply the industry.
 
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So far the LI have played just 3 matches at LR. We must have played 15 - 20 (I cannot be arsed to check😁😁). Up until the rugby was played on it, the pitch seem to be standing up ok. It will now be subject to probably at least 3 Bees amd 2 LI matches per month until at least early May. On current level of deterioration following just 3 LI matches, Blackpool beach beckons. Is there a morale there?

LI‘s last match is scheduled (subject to confirmation) for Saturday 5th June 2021. That probably leaves a maximum of 7 - 8 weeks for any major works, assuming we do not want to play any pre season matches at LR.

Rugby is normally played with the grass significantly longer than we would have for proper football. With the last 2 LI matches being on the day following our home matches that would not be possible. The results of that shorter length grass is what we can now see.

As I have said previously, I assume that the club have a contract with the pitch providers that guarantees the standard that it will maintain through a football and rugby season. Will not help if eventually it affects our standard of play, but should offer some redress.
 

Banana

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Rugby is normally played with the grass significantly longer than we would have for proper football
Nonsense. Here's the facts:

"Premier rugby pitches will typically be mown to 25 - 50mm in height"

Football: "Rules stipulate that the grass must not exceed 30mm in length for Premier League matches (1.18 inches) and this is checked by officials before a game."
 
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waster

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Nonsense. Here's the facts:

"Premier rugby pitches will typically be mown to 25 - 50mm in height"

Football: "Rules stipulate that the grass must not exceed 30mm in length for Premier League matches (1.18 inches) and this is checked by officials before a game."
I think you are pretty much confirming what I have said. Usually the oval ball chaps will leave the grass at the top end nearer the 50mm. Whereas the round ball purists prefers something less than 25mm. Therefore that’s a difference of 25mm potentially, or 1” in old money. There is not much in it, but very little helps to steal a phrase from a well known retailer.

And of course the less a pitch is mown and the longer the grass the less it’s density and leaf growth will generally be too. So could be a double edge sword.
 

eddy bee

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I think you are pretty much confirming what I have said. Usually the oval ball chaps will leave the grass at the top end nearer the 50mm. Whereas the round ball purists prefers something less than 25mm. Therefore that’s a difference of 25mm potentially, or 1” in old money. There is not much in it, but very little helps to steal a phrase from a well known retailer.

And of course the less a pitch is mown and the longer the grass the less it’s density and leaf growth will generally be too. So could be a double edge sword.
There is one thing to mention, blunt blades on mowers cause poor root development sharp blades healthy grass.
 

jlove

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I think you are pretty much confirming what I have said. Usually the oval ball chaps will leave the grass at the top end nearer the 50mm. Whereas the round ball purists prefers something less than 25mm. Therefore that’s a difference of 25mm potentially, or 1” in old money. There is not much in it, but very little helps to steal a phrase from a well known retailer.

And of course the less a pitch is mown and the longer the grass the less it’s density and leaf growth will generally be too. So could be a double edge sword.
I can't imagine that grass can grow 25mm in the few winter days between games of different codes. It hasn't looked in great condition since quite early in the season, IMHO.
 
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All I’m saying about the rugby is that it is contributing to the wear and tear of the pitch thus making it worse. The same as the football is.
Shame :(
Will have far more of a detrimental affect on our promotion chances than whether Ivan Toney starts or subs in cup games.
Needs to get sorted before it’s too late.
 

Voice from the Braemar

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Go and have a look at Maidenhead RFCs 4G pitch and come back to me.
what the hell is a RFC.....sounds very un football imho ;) ive seen the grass at wimbledon centre court and that looked ok,,,,,,probably cos they dont play rugby on it......nailed on
 

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what the hell is a RFC.....sounds very un football imho ;) ive seen the grass at wimbledon centre court and that looked ok,,,,,,probably cos they dont play rugby on it......nailed on
What about the second week after they've been running around on it in training shoes for a few days?
 

ruislip bee

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they arent rugby boots with those big studs in......although i did see ivan lendl where something similar in the early 80s LOL
My first football boots were up around my ankle and with nailed in studs. If you didn't dubbin them before a game you had to thoroughly soak them before trying to put them on otherwise they wouldn't mould around your foot.
 

Voice from the Braemar

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My first football boots were up around my ankle and with nailed in studs. If you didn't dubbin them before a game you had to thoroughly soak them before trying to put them on otherwise they wouldn't mould around your foot.
they would ruin any pitch ;) lol
 

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My first football boots were up around my ankle and with nailed in studs. If you didn't dubbin them before a game you had to thoroughly soak them before trying to put them on otherwise they wouldn't mould around your foot.
Same here with laces a couple of miles long.
 

AB

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Lucky to get an away tie for the Carabao to give the pitch some recovery time?!
 

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