David Raya - Signs to June 2024 (1 Viewer)

Ealing Bee

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The Set piece coach should be all over it now.
Well, yes.

The problem is, he should have been on the case before last night, since if Fulham could spot the basic flaw in our defensive positioning in those situations, we should have spotted it first..

Which is what is so disappointing for me. Anyone can slip up while trying to do the right thing, but DR/our defence got caught out while doing what they thought was the right thing, but wasn't.
 

Ealing Bee

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He could have got away with his starting position if he didn't anticipate a cross.
But isn't that the whole point?

He "put all his money on red" (stopping the cross), so Bryan "put his money on black" (the shot).

It's like marking at corners. Few defences rely only on man-to-man marking, or only on zonal marking - most go for a combination of the two..
 

grutter

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None of this matters now, anyway. If we'd gone a goal up, the match would have panned out differently and we'd have won - but we didn't look like scoring.
And even if he had stopped the free kick, this would have gone to penalties. I would seriously not have fancied that and I don't think most of our penalty takers would either. Raya might have been decent, though.

Much better this way!!
 

IslandBee

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He was actually one of our best performers on the night and has been a real asset all season. I really hope we keep him!!
 

Norfolk Bee

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This fluke of a goal will become with the retelling the best laid and executed plan of all time with knobs on. Still a fluke.
 

Delbee

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This fluke of a goal will become with the retelling the best laid and executed plan of all time with knobs on. Still a fluke.
I give up on the number of times I have said when a keeper makes a mistake it more than likely end up in a goal as he has no back up. All other players can make numbers of mistakes nand have back up to cover up the mistake
 

To Bee Someone

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9 out of 10 times, Bryan would have tried that and would have looked like a wally. Not going to let a freak goal diminish the fact that Raya is a top top GK
 

jbee

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I’m not having it as an individual mistake. If Fulham spotted he was standing off his line you can bet that we knew about it and thought it was worth the risk. I can’t see us training defensive set pieces, making sure the defenders all know where to stand and then just letting Raya do whatever he wanted. TF knows he has to shoulder as much of the blame as David for that goal.
 

AB

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9 out of 10 times, Bryan would have tried that and would have looked like a wally. Not going to let a freak goal diminish the fact that Raya is a top top GK
If it had gone wide people would have wondered what on earth he was playing at with 10 minutes to go and Mitrovic to aim at. Or a foot to the right and Raya would have caught it. Which is why it was probably thought an acceptable risk to take for Raya.
 

redsbee

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More like 99/100. It was a fluke.The randomness of football but why does it always seem to adversely affect us, esp in the big games.
9 out of 10 times, Bryan would have tried that and would have looked like a wally. Not going to let a freak goal diminish the fact that Raya is a top top GK
 

rebus

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More like 99/100. It was a fluke.The randomness of football but why does it always seem to adversely affect us, esp in the big games.
He meant to hit the target so it’s not a fluke. The problem started last night when Rays went walkies up the pitch before that.

I expect better from a goalkeeper on set pieces and he also gifted Stoke their goal. He’s a good goalkeeper but flawed.
 

jlove

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I believe FFC's analysts identified Raya's positioning to be an opportunity and that Bryan was prepared to take the opportunity if it arose. It was never a fluke.
 

IslandBee

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He meant to hit the target so it’s not a fluke. The problem started last night when Rays went walkies up the pitch before that.

I expect better from a goalkeeper on set pieces and he also gifted Stoke their goal. He’s a good goalkeeper but flawed.
All keeper's have mistakes in them, comes with the territory. His have been very few indeed and far less that recent incumbents.

What is also worth considering is the impact of (i) his willingness to come for and catch crosses, which has taken enormous pressure off the defenders; and (ii) his comfort and calm on the ball and distribution.

It is easy to focus on the negatives with a keeper, because mistakes are generally punished with a goal, but if he goes he will be one of the hardest to replace with someone of similar quality in my view
 

ruislip bee

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This fluke of a goal will become with the retelling the best laid and executed plan of all time with knobs on. Still a fluke.
This was neither a fluke goal nor a Raya mistake. Fulham had noted he held a very high line to intercept crosses and that if a free kick occurred in an appropriate position they would try and beat him with a shot to the near post. It was very clever, well researched and superbly executed. The problem was the execution. 9 times out of 10 Bryan would have missed the target. This time he got it spot on.
 

Guildford Bee

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This was neither a fluke goal nor a Raya mistake. Fulham had noted he held a very high line to intercept crosses and that if a free kick occurred in an appropriate position they would try and beat him with a shot to the near post. It was very clever, well researched and superbly executed. The problem was the execution. 9 times out of 10 Bryan would have missed the target. This time he got it spot on.
It was a brilliant goal.
 

Ealing Bee

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All keeper's have mistakes in them, comes with the territory. His have been very few indeed and far less that recent incumbents.
There are mistakes and there are mistakes.

The usual type is when a gk is required to make a "regulation" save but lets it through his arms, or goes to collect a cross, then drops it under no pressure.

Last night was entirely different. When defending free kicks in that position, Bees like to hold an especially high line. i suspect this may be because the stats show most goals are scored from in front of the goal, 6 or 8 yards out. Therefore if the ball finds an opponent on the edge of the area (because Bees defence has pushed them out) then they're much less likely to score from that far out.

Of course, pushng so far forward leaves a bigger vacant area between the defenders/attackers and the goal, so Raya is instructed to come further off his line than usual, to cover the gap. Which is all well and good, only Fulham spotted a flaw, in that his positioning means he will be unable adequately also to cover his near post. And following practice on the training ground, Bryan was able to exploit that flaw.

So in that sense, DR didn't make a "mistake", since he was only following instructions. Rather it was the instructions themselves which were the mistake.

Which considering we are normally so good on set-pieces, is poor, very poor.

What is also worth considering is the impact of (i) his willingness to come for and catch crosses, which has taken enormous pressure off the defenders; and (ii) his comfort and calm on the ball and distribution.

It is easy to focus on the negatives with a keeper, because mistakes are generally punished with a goal, but if he goes he will be one of the hardest to replace with someone of similar quality in my view
No-one is disputing any of that, nor saying we should replace Raya.

Nor can we really complain when a player slips up (eg Pontus v Swansea) unless he makes a habit of it (Pontus doesn't, as we know).

But the significance of last night's error wasn't so much that it was costly (it was, but sh1t happens sometimes), rather that it was avoidable.
 
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Vid

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It was a shot on target.They had six shots on target,he saved five. We had 14 shots not on target which their GK didn't have to save. Raya didn't have any shots at goal. We can't blame him for loosing the match.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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It was a shot on target.They had six shots on target,he saved five. We had 14 shots not on target which their GK didn't have to save. Raya didn't have any shots at goal. We can't blame him for loosing the match.
If he saved five out of six, how did they score 2?
 

Beesfan

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Don’t blame him for the goal, it was a brilliant bit of opportunistic thinking from Bryan and he executed it perfectly.

Raya had a great season so much more reliable than Bentley and will only get better.
 

wibs

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I'd be feeling very sheepish if I was the goalkeeping coach.
 

grutter

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I genuinely think we'd struggle to get much better than Raya, short of spending stupid money. It is such a joy to see a goalkeeper come for crosses and aim to catch the ball in many situations, when modern coaching seems to rail against that. Yes, he's got the odd ricket in him, but name me a goalkeeper that hasn't. Watching MotD, Raya inspires a lot more confidence for me than a lot of PL keepers I've seen. I actually think he would be one of the hardest players to replace and I don't expect him to go yet, having only given us one season.
 

wibs

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yep . lets practice each day leaving a huge gap at free kicks that you cant reach
Exactly it was the fact that Fulham had identified it in their analysis is what makes it worse. It wasn't a one off error.

Anyway, I guess we should move on, Raya has been brilliant this year and some of that in part must inevitably be down to the gk coach
 

BeeHomeSoon

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I'd be feeling very sheepish if I was the goalkeeping coach.
It’s a percentage thing mate.

The chances of Bryan replicating that again with another 9 attempts would have been slim.

I used to like a high line and took similar positions as it’s much easier to claim a cross in acres of space coming at it with momentum.
A deeper line would cause you to have less momentum coming out plus probably being in a crowd of players when claiming the ball.
If they clipped the ball to the edge of the area it’d need one hell of a header to beat you.
The chances of the free kick taker going for goal at your near post from that distance and beating you is slim.

Bryan got his strike spot on...it happens...
As I said earlier I got caught a couple of times in a similar way but I felt we were always less likely to concede being set up in that way...
 
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I believe FFC's analysts identified Raya's positioning to be an opportunity and that Bryan was prepared to take the opportunity if it arose. It was never a fluke.
Agree, think Parker even admitted they had tried something similar before but it went into the stands that time! If we had scored this it would be in the 'Goal of the Season' pot.
 

wibs

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It’s a percentage thing mate.

The chances of Bryan replicating that again with another 9 attempts would have been slim.

I used to like a high line and took similar positions as it’s much easier to claim a cross in acres of space coming at it with momentum.
A deeper line would cause you to have less momentum coming out plus probably being in a crowd of players when claiming the ball.
If they clipped the ball to the edge of the area it’d need one hell of a header to beat you.
The chances of the free kick taker going for goal at your near post from that distance and beating you is slim.

Bryan got his strike spot on...it happens...
As I said earlier I got caught a couple of times in a similar way but I felt we were always less likely to concede being set up in that way...
Sure but it should at least be on his radar. Seems like they were totally blindsided by it which shouldn't be the case
 

grutter

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Sure but it should at least be on his radar. Seems like they were totally blindsided by it which shouldn't be the case
Maybe. Not one poster, pundit or club has mentioned it throughout the season until it happened. It is only because Parker said this was a deliberate ploy that it is now being highlighted. If it were such an obvious shortcoming, you would think at least one team would have pinpointed it by now and tried something similar, but they didn't. No-one else has ever highlighted it.

BFC pride themselves on gaining the extra 1% from their analytics. Let's just accept that on this occasion, it was Fulham's excellent analysis that no-one else picked up on that made the basic difference in that game. It's true he still had only a limited chance of hitting that part of the goal, but he did. Certainly more effective than our own set pieces.
 

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Wouldn't call it a howler or a mistake myself, DR is about 6ft tall not exactly a giant as far as goalkeepers are concerned, I can understand him taking a higher starting position, I expect that if he had been done over his head it would have felt a lot worse, I've always wondered why players in those positions or even crossing positions don't have a go like that more often, you might get a kicking from your team mates for wasting a good position but you have a good chance if you hit the right area of scoring or forcing something else.

DR is a fantastic keeper, been brilliant this season, had a few moments but by and large he's been quality, I really like his mental fortitude that he recovers quickly from incidents like that. I think it was 2-0 and Raya is coming out quickly about 16 yards to cut out the Two on One situation they've squared across the box, he doesn't hide and I've got a lot of respect for that.Top keeper, be a shame if he goes but if he gets an opportunity in the premier league and premier league money I won't blame him.
 

Gee Bee

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Just seen Patricio of Wolves position himself exactly as Raya did in similar position. Wolves high line. Ball crossed in though, but you understand why keeper positioned where he was
 

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It’s a percentage thing mate.

The chances of Bryan replicating that again with another 9 attempts would have been slim.

I used to like a high line and took similar positions as it’s much easier to claim a cross in acres of space coming at it with momentum.
A deeper line would cause you to have less momentum coming out plus probably being in a crowd of players when claiming the ball.
If they clipped the ball to the edge of the area it’d need one hell of a header to beat you.
The chances of the free kick taker going for goal at your near post from that distance and beating you is slim.

Bryan got his strike spot on...it happens...
As I said earlier I got caught a couple of times in a similar way but I felt we were always less likely to concede being set up in that way...
Nice to read an informed reasoned rational on the topic. Much of modern keeping is about anticipation and prevention of situations based upon early reading of situations and dealing with them, occasionally the keeper will make the wrong call or get caught out by a moment of brilliance. Tuesday night for me was much more of the latter, if Ronaldo or Messi had scored that goal it would have been talked of as absolute genius and be the subject of never ending re-runs on Sky Sport. In some ways it reminded me of Nayim chipping David Seaman win the UEFA Cup Winners Cup Final in 1995 a similar bit of opportunism. I think Raya's rush of blood and header which ultimately led to the free-kick in the first place is more open to question but it is the lot of a sweeper keeper in the modern game. Raya's greatest strength will on occasion be a weakness. Raya has been a revelation this season and was exceptional in both legs against Swansea in every aspect of the game. He is a young and very talented keeper who obviously has the complete trust and respect of his team mates. I sincerely hope he in between the posts for us come the start of next season.
 

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Watched it a couple of times now. I think he was slow reacting to the shot rather than poorly positioned. The ball was almost in the net before he went for it.
 

Jim Rourke

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It’s a percentage thing mate.

The chances of Bryan replicating that again with another 9 attempts would have been slim.


The chances of the free kick taker going for goal at your near post from that distance and beating you is slim.

Bryan got his strike spot on...it happens...
To add to BeeHomeSoon's post

Capture.JPG

Infogol had this as a 4% probability. Considering the goal was scored in extra time on a warm summers evening I personally feel great credit is due to Bryan.

Looking at replays David seemed to be on his left foot moving to his left. If not I would have backed him to save it.

We also need to remember he had already made two great saves to keep us in the final up to that point.

Nothing but love for this boy. I really hope to see David between the posts 12th September and beyond mid October.
 

wibs

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Watched it a couple of times now. I think he was slow reacting to the shot rather than poorly positioned. The ball was almost in the net before he went for it.
Exactly he was slow to react because the thought of it wasn't on his radar.

How come the idea was on the Fulham coaches radar but not our own gk coach?

Anyway as I've said previously I think he's a great gk and he more than justifies his place in the team.
 

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Keep having flashbacks of David Seaman being mugged off by Ronaldinho aswell. Another traumatic footballing experience :'(
 

hatfieldbee

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Raya getting grief from a few on here. Not me. He's been generally excellent all season. However, interesting that the day after the POF, our gk coach left immediately. Sign of guilt, or asked to leave by the club?
 

Downbeat Bee

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Raya getting grief from a few on here. Not me. He's been generally excellent all season. However, interesting that the day after the POF, our gk coach left immediately. Sign of guilt, or asked to leave by the club?
That was always the plan wasn't it?
 

kevalutonbee

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Raya getting grief from a few on here. Not me. He's been generally excellent all season. However, interesting that the day after the POF, our gk coach left immediately. Sign of guilt, or asked to leave by the club?
or the far less controversial short term contract expired
 

Guildford Bee

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Raya getting grief from a few on here. Not me. He's been generally excellent all season. However, interesting that the day after the POF, our gk coach left immediately. Sign of guilt, or asked to leave by the club?
He would've never stayed beyond the end of the season regardless of what happened in the final. The position was advertised weeks back
 

hatfieldbee

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Raya getting grief from a few on here. Not me. He's been generally excellent all season. However, interesting that the day after the POF, our gk coach left immediately. Sign of guilt, or asked to leave by the club?
That was always the plan wasn't it?
or the far less controversial short term contract expired
He would've never stayed beyond the end of the season regardless of what happened in the final. The position was advertised weeks back
Whoops!
 

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Watched it a couple of times now. I think he was slow reacting to the shot rather than poorly positioned. The ball was almost in the net before he went for it.
What I took from it was not that he was slow to react but that he didn't even get close to it.

People have been excusing the goal on the basis of percentages, and obviously when you've two contradictory duties (cover the gap behind a high defensive line vs. cover your near post), you've got to make a call on what percentage you allocate to each.

But DR veered so far towards the former (cover the gap) that he basically neglected the latter, such that Fulham spotted it and were able to exploit it.

Had DR almost got a hand to the shot, but it still crept in between fnger tips and post, then fair enough. (I wonder exactly how close to the post Bryan's shot actually was, btw. Anyone?)

But DR's reactions aren't notably slow, nor is he physically slow to move hinself around, yet he still wasn't within a mile of getting to it.

Meanwhile it wll be interesting to see whether Bees persist with this tactic next season. If they don't, then that will be an admission that we got it wrong.

And if we do then you can be sure every other team in the division will be selecting a specialist to praictce shootng from that position, both left and rght. And the rest of ther players will be trying to "buy" free kicks in dangerous positions.
 

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Button used to position himself in goal to the left or right at free kicks. He was caught out on more than one occasion. Why not just put a defender on the line as cover for free kicks and one on each goal post for corners.
 

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