Dear John

Thomas Bathurst

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Dear John,

By the time you read these lines, I might be gone ….

I see myself as a “typical” Brentford supporter. I’ve been coming for 25 years, and have been a season ticket holder for most of those. I go to all home games and a decent chunk of away games and friendlies too. A Bees United member and small s/o contributor. You know the sort? Although not up amongst the elite band of ‘uber supporter’ who never miss a match home or away, I think it’s safe to say I am part of the most common group of supporters. There are about 3000 of us left.

The reason for these words, is that I wanted to ask “What have we got to look forward to when coming to watch Brentford every week?”. If you could please explain (because I don’t believe for a minute you don’t read these pages). The way I see it is;
  • The worst football I have witnessed in 25 years …
  • Without a win at home for 3 months …
  • Orchestrated by a manager who hasn’t a clue.
  • £6.5 million of debt and rising
  • A stadium “dream” at stalemate
  • Certain players in the team who are scarcely better than I was at their age
  • A “comical” board of directors who are seemingly afraid to say “boo” to a goose
  • Forced to sell our best assets for peanuts
  • More experienced players upping and leaving, just when we need them
  • Fans split and arguing amongst themselves
  • A stadium manager hell-bent on alienating fans further

… ad infinitum …

Now I am realistic, I don’t expect to be winning leagues & cups, but it would be nice if we had some hope on at least some fronts. Over the years the floaters, locals and fair weather fans have departed seemingly never to return. Is it now the turn for me, as a die hard, to turn my back on the club? It hasn’t come to that just yet, because I can’t imagine not coming any more, but John McGlashan and co, please don’t take ‘our’ support for granted.

You might think you are doing a good job, but from where I am sitting as a “typical” supporter you are making a right royal f**k up of it. Ron Noades might be holding the knife, but in my eyes you’ll have a few spots of blood on your hands – as it seems to me you jumped into a situation you didn’t know enough about and may have bitten off a bit more than you can chew. Unfair, maybe, but if that is so, then let’s hear from you? What have you achieved and what have we got to look forward to - and "keeping the club alive" isn't an answer.
 
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Supes42

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As you reckon he is doing so badly, why don't you offer to take over from him. Are you up for that? Fancy a spell in the firing line? Confident that you can do better than the man who has done so much to keep us alive and at GP against the odds?

Go on, jump into the situation, I dare you.
 
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Thomas Bathurst

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That's just the point "Supes", I was sceptical when the first notion of a "supporters run" club was first mooted - precisely because I envisaged a "fan" who didn't know what they were doing being thrust in at the sharp end, and I voiced this concern. At the time, John emailed me to try and alleviate my fears and to tell me it was all going to be great. Despite my reservations I signed up.

Besides, John CHOOSE to do this. I believe his personal circumstances meant that he could. Whether it was ego, or naivety that made him do this, I don't know. However I' m not going to ignore the fact that a balls up is being made.
 

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Supes42 said:
As you reckon he is doing so badly, why don't you offer to take over from him. Are you up for that? Fancy a spell in the firing line? Confident that you can do better than the man who has done so much to keep us alive and at GP against the odds?

Go on, jump into the situation, I dare you.

So unless we are personally prepared to take over from him, we should be expected to meekly accept the present state of affairs.

Wake up and smell the coffee mate.

Spot on Mr Bathurst.
 

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If thats how you feel, then you should at least post a letter or email him at the club or speak with him in person, he is available in Stripes for most home games. Why post on here, maybe its for your own ego? ;)
 

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JTofBFC said:
So unless we are personally prepared to take over from him, we should be expected to meekly accept the present state of affairs.

Wake up and smell the coffee mate.

Spot on Mr Bathurst.

You don't need to accept when things are being done badly and there is nothing wrong with bringing up any shortcomings that the board may have. However you do need to consider the alternatives like in the Wally out discussions. Other managers have been put forward who are looking for work in the Football League but running the club is an entirely different kettle of fish. There isn't a long line of people queuing up to manage BFC's debts and without money from BU we could be in administration by now. The club is still here to make mistakes with and I am grateful to those in charge for that. The football side of things does needs improving I won't argue with that.
 

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Obviously I wasn't party to your email from John but I've never had the impression that he thinks things are going to be great. Maybe in 5-10 years it will be great, but certainly not now.

I've never heard him say that he is an expert in running a football club, he has always been fairly open about the fact that mistakes will be made IMHO.

John did choose to follow this path, but believe me his personal circumstances did not just let him. He poured hours of his own time into this, and I can't imagine the upheaval he faced. Hence my first reply, would YOU have done the same?

John did this because Ron Noades was killing us. Would you rather Ron Noades was still running this place, rather than Bees supporters committed 100% to the best interests of the club?

I empathise with the vast majority of your initial post, but the last paragraph seems to be nothing more than a vitriolic personal attack with no constructive element. I am totally sick of such postings.
 

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As a throw away line, recently I have said that at least if the Bees went bust then I wouldn't have to watch that rubbish again!

After following the mighty Bees for fifty years I am not so sure it is just a throw away line..................
 
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Thomas Bathurst

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Gee Bee said:
If thats how you feel, then you should at least post a letter or email him at the club or speak with him in person, he is available in Stripes for most home games. Why post on here, maybe its for your own ego? ;)

:) My point being I don't think we should have to go to Stripes to hear it from the horses mouth that "everything is okay", if indeed we are "okay". Us "typical" supporters just turn up watch the "football" and go home - we shouldn't have to ask for information - we should be fed it via the various forms of media available, programme, web site, tv, radio, local and national news. If Brentford wants to retain any of it's dwindling fan base then this is surely what we need to do ... not make supporters turn up in Stripes or at the pub for a Q&A session!

Gee Bee said:
I empathise with the vast majority of your initial post, but the last paragraph seems to be nothing more than a vitriolic personal attack with no constructive element.

It wasn't meant as a vitriolic personal attack, more trying to goad John into some anwers via the Official Club Website. If I am wrong in some of the stuff I said, then prove it! I know it's been said before, but we got more information out of Noades! We don't need to know the nitty gritty, just something positive to cling to!!!
 

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JTofBFC said:
So unless we are personally prepared to take over from him, we should be expected to meekly accept the present state of affairs.

That's certainly not my view.

I smelt the coffee a long time ago, unfortunately some people still have not. I saw a post on another thread inferring that another 'white knight' would be preferable to BU. Some people just don't learn.
 

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Thomas Bathurst said:
It wasn't meant as a vitriolic personal attack, more trying to goad John into some anwers via the Official Club Website. If I am wrong in some of the stuff I said, then prove it! I know it's been said before, but we got more information out of Noades! We don't need to know the nitty gritty, just something positive to cling to!!!

It certainly came across as a vitriolic personal attack. Even if it is not, goading is not much better.

Apart from that I never said you were wrong with anything you said, I even said I empathised with you. Why you are asking me to 'prove' stuff is beyond me.
 

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Supes42 said:
That's certainly not my view.

I smelt the coffee a long time ago, unfortunately some people still have not. I saw a post on another thread inferring that another 'white knight' would be preferable to BU. Some people just don't learn.

I certainly wouldn't rule it out as a better option. Particularly as we get nearer to the option exercise date and no nearer raising any serious money.

Lionel Rd is going nowhere, the option termination date is getting nearer by the day and yet you are suggesting that nothing other than a fan run club is an option.

All I'm saying is that if a multi millionaire businessman came in for the club we would be fools to dismiss it out of hand just so we can pursue our fairy story of running the club.

The "fans" through the representatives on the Board have been running the club for quite some considerable time. Tell me how much nearer we are to getting Noades out of the picture than we were on day 1?
 
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Thomas Bathurst

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Supes42 said:
It certainly came across as a vitriolic personal attack. Even if it is not, goading is not much better.

Apart from that I never said you were wrong with anything you said, I even said I empathised with you. Why you are asking me to 'prove' stuff is beyond me.

I'm asking / goading John to prove that he has everything in hand, and is representing us supporters, broadly, how we would like to be represented! Let's have some info John!?!
 

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Well I suppose you could say at least we aren't at Woking - without BU we would be there by now I am sure.

No one said any of this would be easy or quick and painless - All we can realistically do is hang in there and SUPPORT the team we all love as best we can - the alternative is too horrendous to think about
 

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Too right Aussie Bee.

JT if you can find a money man who is willing to pour money in while letting fans have complete control, then I take my hat off to you.

Just remember, Ron Noades was a white knight when he bought BFC. But he put no money in, just used it to guarantee the debts which have brought us to our knees. Fans may lack expertise but they have only one interest - BFC. The importance of that cannot be stated highly enough.
 

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Supes42 said:
Too right Aussie Bee.

JT if you can find a money man who is willing to pour money in while letting fans have complete control, then I take my hat off to you.

Just remember, Ron Noades was a white knight when he bought BFC. But he put no money in, just used it to guarantee the debts which have brought us to our knees. Fans may lack expertise but they have only one interest - BFC. The importance of that cannot be stated highly enough.

Totally agree

People come and People go (managers, players, money men) but
the fans are always wanting the best for the club.
 

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kiwi Bee said:
Totally agree

People come and People go (managers, players, money men) but
the fans are always wanting the best for the club.

I agree, but they're not necessarily the best people to GET what is best for the club or make it happen.

There's nothing wrong with questioning the way our club is run - or expecting our "fan run" club not to assume the same (bad) habits as previously. We all know that there have been cock ups made since the fans took over - so it's not unreasonable to try and stop it happening again is it?
 

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Dear John.

sussexb said:
I agree, but they're not necessarily the best people to GET what is best for the club or make it happen.

There's nothing wrong with questioning the way our club is run - or expecting our "fan run" club not to assume the same (bad) habits as previously. We all know that there have been cock ups made since the fans took over - so it's not unreasonable to try and stop it happening again is it?

Totally agree, but if you feel that certain peoples arn't up to the job why not have a go yourself? Bees utd are always asking fans to give opinions. But to me that's a right stab in the back for John Mac, and by reading between the lines Thomas Bathurst is it because Downes is still our manager. Although the majority of fans want him out, I now think the board will stick with him. Because he would have been gone by now. But look on the bright side, I doubt he will be hear next season. Unless we stay up which I doubt. But back to the point, John Mac does not profess to know all the answers, but nobody else does either.
This isall about all us bees fans making sure we still have a club to support.
 
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Thomas Bathurst

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Re: Dear John.

West Wilts Bee said:
reading between the lines Thomas Bathurst is it because Downes is still our manager

Well, the offering of Downes a new contract last summer, and the failure to act on the results of the last 3 months is irritating in the extreme and one of the issues. But it's not the main issue by any stretch of the imagination ....

The main issue relates to the fact that we needn't have been in such a great financial mess had John taken the right options, when they were offered to him. He made a decision(s), as mentioned, either based on ego or naivety and it's now costing us dear. He also choose to do the job he is doing (when I don't think he should have) - and if he can't take a bit of criticism, then he is in the wrong job! Also, if he messes up and Brentford go to the wall, then he will have to live with some of the blame.
 

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Thomas - there aren`t many clubs where you can talk face-to-face with the people running the club. At any time, virtually.

If you took the time to talk to JM in Stripes (or wherevevr/whenever you want) he would , i`m certain, address many of your points. In that sense, BFC is a lot different to most clubs.
Even if you dont necessarily like what you hear, you would be a lot wiser for talking to him re BFC or BU issues. If you dont want to talk to JM if you PM me your number i`ll call you and address some of your points (BU-related), and anyone else`s :)
 

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Thomas,

It seams that your glass is half empty whears mine with the same contents is half full.

Make no mistake, if it wasn't for John, BU and BIAS, our football club would be playing at Kingstonian or Woking. Griffin Park would have been sold for a fraction of its worth and with BFC outside of the brorough in a position never to return the speculators would eventually get full planning permission for GP.

We would have dwindling gates, dwindling revenue and regrets.

Our stadium dreams might be slow moving but brentford have talking about relocating for years and if the truth be known we are probably a lot closer to having a new stadium than at any time since we moved into GP. The mayor wants it, the MPs want it , the council wants it and the fans want it. I'm not saying that it will happen but if it does, with its infrustructure it will be one of the best grounds in the country and our Brentford could be challeging for a European place like Charlton.

To a certain extent us fans must appreciate that our club is still an altonwood owned company, we must also realise that we have the skills to make our club a success. Amongst Brentford support are many captains of industry, many sucessfull business men with the skills to run a football club. BU has an open door policy where anybody can get involved, supporters who want to change the way things are done have the GPG to get there message across so that they can galvanise support for BU elections.

We all lambast the clubs marketing, but how many of the 3000 fans work in a marketing industry and haven't offered their support or their ideas.

The light is still at the end of the tunnel, we know it is bright, we know we want to see it and we will. if the tunnel was straight we would be blinded but like the tunnels of old which twisted and turned so that the horses didn't bolt but have a few twists and turns to navigate

BEE POSITIVE
BEELEIVE
 

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PJ said:
Thomas - there aren`t many clubs where you can talk face-to-face with the people running the club. At any time, virtually.

If you took the time to talk to JM in Stripes (or wherevevr/whenever you want) he would , i`m certain, address many of your points. In that sense, BFC is a lot different to most clubs.
Even if you dont necessarily like what you hear, you would be a lot wiser for talking to him re BFC or BU issues. If you dont want to talk to JM if you PM me your number i`ll call you and address some of your points (BU-related), and anyone else`s :)

Hi Mate,

I think BU can take what points are being raised by the many threads on this board .Why not get some one to answer them on here to the general public rather than individual subjects?
 
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Thomas Bathurst

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Bigbee said:
Hi Mate,

I think BU can take what points are being raised by the many threads on this board .Why not get some one to answer them on here to the general public rather than individual subjects?

Thanks Bigbee, that's exactly my point. It is great that should I wish to I contact John McGlashan I can - and I agree that we are unlike other clubs in that this "service" is available to us fans. However, targetting individuals is no way to get the message across - especially if Brentford / Bees United have something important to say (good or bad)! As I said, I just want to be able to turn up to games and not have to get involved with chatting to club directors etc. That said, I do want to know what is going on, and whether there is any hope for Brentford FC. That's me and 3000 others!

NB Ayes Bee, my glass isn't half empty, it just has a dribble in the bottom. If someone, preferably John McGlashan, can please explain to me, as a fan what I have to look foward to?
 
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Thomas Bathurst said:
Thanks Bigbee, that's exactly my point. It is great that should I wish to I contact John McGlashan I can - and I agree that we are unlike other clubs in that this "service" is available to us fans. However, targetting individuals is no way to get the message across - especially if Brentford / Bees United have something important to say (good or bad)! As I said, I just want to be able to turn up to games and not have to get involved with chatting to club directors etc. That said, I do want to know what is going on, and whether there is any hope for Brentford FC. That's me and 3000 others!

NB Ayes Bee, my glass isn't half empty, it just has a dribble in the bottom. If someone, preferably John McGlashan, can please explain to me, as a fan what I have to look foward to?

So why do you have to publicly ridicule everything and everyone on the GPG?

I suggest you don't have the bollox to front the people you are accusing face to face?

I admit that they are making mistakes, but I front them myself about my issues.. and when you get the answers then maybe you can decide whether these Guys are doing the best they can.

I don't hear many of these questions raised at the 'Open Q and A Forums' either?

Why set up a thread 'Dear John' when you can contact him at the Club or on the Phone or via a letter or via E-mail?

Perhaps things are going so badly wrong as you put it because a dozen or so people are working their ar$es off whilst the other 3,000 just sit back and expect a massive change after the cancer that Noades left us with?
 
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Thomas Bathurst

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For F***S sake, you just don't get it do you?

Like it or not, there are some (lots) of us who want to support a professionally run football club, where we can turn up, watch the football, go home, read about the latest goings on in the media, and feel safe in the knowledge that we are being run by someone competent etc etc. We don't want some cliquey small time bullshit club that some of you seem happy with. If that's all we have to look forward to then ........ the end is nigh!

It’s nothing to do with having the b***ocks to face John. I pay my money (at the gate, and to BU) and therefore have a right to ask what I am getting for this. If John doesn't like this, then he is in the wrong job. Did he think he'd be able to run a football club without any relevant experience and not make mistakes ... and therefore not receive any criticism? If so he is naive in the extreme.

The thread was designed to make a point. To ask why "we" should carry on coming, as things seem to be getting worse not better. If we have any hope left. To try and get the club & BU to announce something to the world!


P.S. I don't doubt for a minute that these guys ARE doing the best they can, and care about the football club. Of course they do. But their best isn't (and was never going to be) good enough. They are amateurs, and an amateur who doesn't know what they are doing can inadvertently do as much harm as the likes of Noades.
 
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Nick Hester

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Thomas Bathurst said:
For F***S sake, you just don't get it do you?

Like it or not, there are some (lots) of us who want to support a professionaly run football club, where we can turn up, watch the football, go home, read about the latest goings on in the media, and feel safe in the knowledge that we are being run by someone competent etc etc. We don't want some cliquey small time bullshit club that some of you seem happy with. If that's all we have to look forward to then ........ the end is nigh!

I'ts nothing to do with having the b***ocks to face John. I pay my money (at the gate, and to BU) and therefore have a right to ask what I am getting for this. If John doesn't like this, then he is in the wrong job. Did he think he's be able to run a football club without any relevant experience and not make mistakes ... and therefore not receive any criticism? If so he is naive in the extreme.

The thread was designed to make a point. To ask why "we" should carry on coming, as things seem to be getting worse not better. If we have any hope left. To try and get the club & BU to announce something to the world!

No I 'do get it'..
The reason I keep coming is because I am a Brentford Supporter.
The Club and Bees United do announce things to the World in my opinion.
Each issue in our fanzine we hold an interview with John Mac (We have received several letters of support for the 'No Holds barred reporting).

We ask him questions and with one exception, he has answered EVERYTHING and We have Printed EVERYTHING he has told us about. (The one exception is specific players wages).

I am not a massive 'Buddy' of John Mac, but whenever I ask him valid concerns and questions I get an answer, sometimes, If you read TITS, you will see that we don't always agree with those answers.

I believe Thorne in the Side sells because we are ballanced and fair. It is also a reason why we have never 'sold out' and gone on sale within the Club shop, because I want to keep that 'Independance' and have the right to print what I like.

John Mac and Bees United are not in my opinion doing everything right, nor were they expected to.

The plain matter is 'Would you rather have Noades still in control or Bees United?'
At least you know where EVERY penny is going..

I have No affiliation with Bees United, John Mac or the Club, I pay to get in, have a membership to BU and donate some of our takings of TITS to the cause.. I also could do a lot more.

I hope this makes my position clear.

Not that you may be interested but I will happily ask your concerns and put them into the next Issue Interview if you would like to PM me with the questions..
 

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Dear John.

Thomas the bottom line is we aint got no money, I fear things will get worse before thet get better, I dont want to piss anyone off . But there are to many bees fans sitting on the fence, it's time to get off, the board of directors wont improve things, the fans will.
If every bees fan got involved one way or the other, things would be easier. I dont think Noades would have done us any favours, as i feel he wants us to sink. He could then achieve his goal and sell Griffin Park.
 

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Thomas Bathurst said:
NB Ayes Bee, my glass isn't half empty, it just has a dribble in the bottom. If someone, preferably John McGlashan, can please explain to me, as a fan what I have to look foward to?
thomas,

As your glass has only a dribble in the bottom, I'll by you a refill in the griffin before todays game. I'll be outside by the BU table between 1:30 and 2:00 and I'll introduce you to the BFC bard members who are there just to answers the concerns that suporters have.
 

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Re: Dear John.

West Wilts Bee said:
......................... reading between the lines Thomas Bathurst is it because Downes is still our manager. Although the majority of fans want him out, I now think the board will stick with him. Because he would have been gone by now. But look on the bright side, I doubt he will be hear next season. Unless we stay up which I doubt.

Thats exactly the problem for me.

The Board are the only people who have it in their power to take action to stop our inevitable slide into the bottom 4 and yet as you say above we all know that no matter how bad things are on the field nothing will be done to stop the rot.

3 points from 10 games. Little over a point a game for over a year and still that is considered good enough When some of you wake up to the fact that relegation will kill us and that we wont just step straight back up as Champions like last time we might get somewhere.

I can forgive John Mac and the rest of the Board mistakes. I can forgive them paying a golf club invoice or not having particularly great PR or employing a stadium manager that nobody likes much. I can put up with all these things.

I can even put up (reluctantly) with the fact that he is refusing to come clean with the fans over how much we got for Paul Smith and how many appearances it will take to get it (although that smacks of unnecessary secrecy). Perhaps T.I.T.S might like to find out and tell us all?

What I cant put up with is the inaction over on the field events.

Asking him and others questions in Stripes or getting involved in Marketing wont solve that.

If we are relegated this season without a fight, the Board will be up to their neck in the brown sticky stuff and it will be a hammer blow to the idea that the fans can run the club. They have the opportunity to do something about it and if they fail to grasp it then they only have themselves to blame if there is major disenchantment.

If we stay up we keep him and if we go down we sack him isn't good enough in my book. I want to see something positive done to AVOID relegation BEFORE it is inevitable.

We have a pretty decent group of players at this club. Far better than many in the division. Ask yourselves why they aren't performing not just over the last couple of months but for well over a year (with the exception of an occasional game in which they have demonstrated what they are capable of when properly motivated)
 
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Thomas Bathurst said:
Like it or not, there are some (lots) of us who want to support a professionally run football club, where we can turn up, watch the football, go home, read about the latest goings on in the media, and feel safe in the knowledge that we are being run by someone competent etc etc. We don't want some cliquey small time bullshit club that some of you seem happy with. If that's all we have to look forward to then ........ the end is nigh!

It’s nothing to do with having the b***ocks to face John. I pay my money (at the gate, and to BU) and therefore have a right to ask what I am getting for this. If John doesn't like this, then he is in the wrong job. Did he think he'd be able to run a football club without any relevant experience and not make mistakes ... and therefore not receive any criticism? If so he is naive in the extreme.

The thread was designed to make a point. To ask why "we" should carry on coming, as things seem to be getting worse not better. If we have any hope left. To try and get the club & BU to announce something to the world!


P.S. I don't doubt for a minute that these guys ARE doing the best they can, and care about the football club. Of course they do. But their best isn't (and was never going to be) good enough. They are amateurs, and an amateur who doesn't know what they are doing can inadvertently do as much harm as the likes of Noades.

Thomas none of us are happy that the club is being run like this but it is either this or no more Brentford. It's that simple. We are in this position because we are far away from being the kind of club you want us to be (and that I want us to be aswell). It may seem like a small time non-league club but we have no choice and it may well be that the days of 90 odd professionallly run league clubs is over. In my job I deal with football league clubs every day and in the lower divisions it is the same story everywhere, people with their own jobs giving as much time as they can spare to keep the club running. The difference with Brentford is that we have supporters actually running the club. We shouldn't underestimate how much has been done already just to ensure that we keep running from week to week.
 

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Bigbee said:
Hi Mate,

I think BU can take what points are being raised by the many threads on this board .Why not get some one to answer them on here to the general public rather than individual subjects?

Well Thomas is slagging the way BFC is run, so surely that is a BFC related complaint, not BU?

I dont mind taking any BU questions - if I can`t answer them efficiently i`ll ask someone who can respond to any specific point with more accuracy/expertise.
You can put any replies in the News of the World or on the GPG for all I care, it doesnt matter - there is nothing to hide.

The problem with the GPG is that some people take everything they read as absolute Gospel, without seeking the alternative stance - often a different kettle of fish.
 
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Pauly Paul

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Thomas Bathurst said:
For F***S sake, you just don't get it do you?

Like it or not, there are some (lots) of us who want to support a professionally run football club, where we can turn up, watch the football, go home, read about the latest goings on in the media, and feel safe in the knowledge that we are being run by someone competent etc etc. We don't want some cliquey small time bullshit club that some of you seem happy with. If that's all we have to look forward to then ........ the end is nigh!

Taxi for Mr Bathurst. Destination, Fulham Broadway...

I and I suspect many others love Brentford as a small club. Do you know why? Because individually or together we can create something. We can get involved, direct and coalesce our energies and see an end product. It might not be what others regard as "perfect" but its ours nonetheless. Brentford FC is now our project, our creation, our baby.

Instead of being one man's ego trip, it can now be product of the fans collective energies and ideas. Like all things energy related, what we all put in we'll all get back. Submit negative energy and you'll get it back, do the opposite and we might all be able to create something wonderful. If you want to remain passive and distant then maybe if you don't like what you see it's time to move on. If you want to contribute then you'd be more effective by being constructive with your criticism or better still by getting involved at a level where your ideas can help shape the reality.

This is no dream, believe in your influence and your points of view will be incorporated and assimilated.
 
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West Wilts Bee

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Dear John.

Very good post Pauly Paul, If everyone done something it would make things a lot easier for all concerned. The football club, bees utd and us the fans, it is the latter that make the club.
I know that a lot more people should be do a lot more to help save the club, myself included. I am a regular reader on the grapevine, and it astounds me at the negative attitude of so many fans. It's your football club, dont think so & so can do that and so & so could do that. Get on board offer your services, I know it will be greatly appreaciated.
WE the fans must hold our head up and never be beaten, I feel this club is in better hands. I trust the people that are trying to save our football club, stop moaning and get behind them. This is probably our last chance to make something of our club as for all this that Noades would have let us off some of the debt his debt dont make me laugh. that man has no morals. To many chairman have dropped this club in the sh*t. Time to move on, get behind this club we all love, give some of you time. Join BU and set up a s/o it's only a pint of stella a week to the club that you love.

REMEMBER YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB NEEDS YOU.
 

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Re: Re: Dear John.

JTofBFC said:
I can even put up (reluctantly) with the fact that he is refusing to come clean with the fans over how much we got for Paul Smith and how many appearances it will take to get it (although that smacks of unnecessary secrecy). Perhaps T.I.T.S might like to find out and tell us all?

[/B]

Interview Planned and this will be my Number One question..
Hopefully everyone will be clearer by then, but I agree there is an amount of secrecy behind it..

As I understand it was £250,000 cash, and £100,000 for 20 Appearances and another £100,000 at 50 appearances.. However, some fans seem to think that this includes 'Sub appearances' which I would very much doubt..

Tits will be out on the home game after QPR..
 
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T

Thomas Bathurst

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“Taxi for Mr Bathurst. Destination, Fulham Broadway...”, I’m not exactly sure what you mean by that, Pauly Paul;

Is it because a handful of people have voiced a differing opinion to mine? I’m not arrogant enough to believe everybody feels the same way! I’m well aware that there are a number of you who would be quite happy to see a scaled down BFC if it means the fans having control, or even an AFC Brentford playing in the non league should it come to that. I just don’t feel that way. Sorry, if that makes me less of a fan in your eyes, then so be it.

Is it a glory hunting reference, suggesting I should be following Fulham, if I want to see a bit of success? I wouldn’t have been following Brentford through thin & thin for 25 years, despite never in my life, living within 30 miles of the ground, if I was that shallow. I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting success on the pitch. Some people might come simply for the comradeship (to quote Bish) and to share a few pints down the pub with their mates. I come to hopefully watch a half decent game of football, with the hope of success paramount. I don’t EXPECT it, but I need that hope.

Surely it’s not a reference to our first home win in 3 months (great though it was) so now everything is rosy in the Brentford garden?

I’m sorry if I can’t subscribe to your utopian dream where all fans put hands to the pump to drag Brentford along. It’s not what I want. There I have said it. In all honesty I was never keen on the idea of the fans running the club in the first place; but a bit like at our general election you don’t have a great deal to pick from, I plumped for the well meaning incompetents, in the hope that we would get lucky and end up with someone with real calibre representing us. It was a long shot, and it didn’t come up.

Maybe it’s because I don’t have any real affinity with the area or don’t have many Brentford supporting friends or family, I feel the way I do. Maybe I am alone in my views. However, my view is that I am not happy with a “fans run” club if the fans running it don’t know what they are doing – just because we don’t have any other option doesn’t mean I have to LIKE what we have. I’d much rather we had a businessman with experience at the helm, despite what happened under N****s.

While Bees United are the only option then I’ll continue to be a member and pay my standing order, and that’s it, again apologies if I haven’t the time or inclination to do anything more! However if someone with a bit of business experience and money came into the picture, providing I was satisfied they were a football ‘fan’ (not necessarily a Brentford fan) I’d turn my support to them immediately – I’m not sure that Bees United would welcome someone like this with open arms (tell me if I am wrong).

In my ideal scenario Bees United would still have a role, but merely one that would allow them to oversee what happens in the boardroom and communicate this to the rest of us fans.

Lastly, can I just say that I have admiration for all of those who spend hours of their time working for Bees United – I respect their efforts and truly hope they aren’t in vain. My intention wasn’t intended to belittle their efforts. However the goal of a supporters run club isn’t, never was, and never will be something that gets me excited. I look upon the future of BFC as things stand, if we survive, as a Mickey Mouse club, with incompetence off the pitch and sub-standard football on it. I’ll continue to come (even if we are playing in the conference), because like your family, I believe you are born with a love for your football club, and that will never change.
 
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Stanley

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Thomas Bathurst said:
“ I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting success on the pitch.

There's not and most would say the same, I don't think many of us want to see some non league jolly "social" outfit.

A few years ago, like you, I would have been sceptical of a fans owned club (for reasons that you can see on this board), but times are changing. Bosman and the rise of the super Plc clubs have altered everything and longer term it is the only way most Nationwide clubs will survive even some PL clubs. Once the money dries up the "businessmen/ owners" run a mile.

Noades and his like have changed my opinion, they are the incompetent ones not BU. The sheer mess that Risdale and co have made at Leeds is just another example, even their most optimistic supporters are questioning their very future existence beyond this season.

BU are still in their infancy, as for any organisation it will take a while longer for experience to be gained, for mistakes to be learnt from and for the exact pathway we are taking to be clear. We may disagree with some decisions but it is the longer term goal that is important.

What is the alternative anyway.....Noades v2???
 

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Stanley said:
BU are still in their infancy, as for any organisation it will take a while longer for experience to be gained, for mistakes to be learnt from and for the exact pathway we are taking to be clear. We may disagree with some decisions but it is the longer term goal that is important.

What is the alternative anyway.....Noades v2???

In an ideal world Brentford wouldn't be worrying about surviving from week to week.We would have a financially secure club with a team doing well in the league.Unfortunately this is a far from ideal world. :(

Unfortunately there are no "white knights" willing to pump money into this football club.When Martin Lange put this club up for sale in the early 1990's there was hardly a queue of people beating down his door to take over the club was there.We all saw the disasterous effects of the Webb and Noades regimes.Bees United were the only people willing to step up to the plate to see if they can pull the club out of the mess.

Sure people within Bees United will make mistakes,after all they(as are we all) are only human.They will make decisions that I disagree with,the employment of football personnel within this football club for one,but I have faith that they will end up getting it right.

Time will tell as to whether they do or not but in my view they represent Brentford's last chance.Until someone can demostrate to me that other people are willing and better qualified to successfully run this football club then personally I'm willing to put my faith in the people involved in Bees United.

You see it's very easy to criticise without offering practical solutions.The difficult part is to provide alternative solutions to the problems faced.

Rightly or wrongly it's just my view,as Mr Bathurst has his view,as Greenholme Bee has his view and so on and so on.
 

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The future

Thomas,

Agree with much of what you say in your last post.

I speak in a personal capacity, but i`m sure if any "brighter" future appeared for BFC then BU would consider any options seriously and step aside if a "sexier" option was forthcoming.

We all want a bright future, we all want to return to the days of coming down to GP, enjoying a few pints and watching an entertaining game (not that has ever been guaranteed for as far back as I can remember :) ) but in the short-term survival is surely the key issue.

I personally believe many fans underestimate the extent of BFC`s financial problems - I know it has been a hand-to-mouth existence for some time now. That is not the fault of BU, it is an historical debt.

Whether you believe the burden of BFC`s problems should have been taken on or not is a matter of opinion - depends on who you speak to or what you want to hear. I personally think the proof of the pudding will surface in @12 months time.

What I do recall is a poignant comment made after we were hammered at home by Plymouth Argyle a few months ago -

"It hurts to have been stuffed at home, but it would have hurt a lot more in front of half as many people at Kingstonian"....etc...
 

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Thomas,

I was referring to Chelsea where the perfect environment exists for a passive supporter who wants good football, big games and success. There's no wrong in you desiring that but if that's all you want then maybe supporting Brentford in the next few years will bring many more frustrating days than happy ones.

I'm not demanding you take part in the activities going on with BU but what I'm trying to point out is that being a passive observer will make the reality that exists before you more annoying.

To me it's like the people who sit through a TV programme and complain about it from start to finish. Of course, BFC is no tv programme that you simply can turn over. Maybe you and like minded others, if you feel its in the best interests of the club, should start a group to remove BU from the board and court potential investors. Would that would be the best use of your energies?

5 years from now we might still be a 2nd division club and BU might still be in control. We might even be successful and we'd all be happy. But for now, we're a struggling club and I have no problem about realising that the following years at GP may contain scenes of an unpleasant nature that some supporters may find disturbing.

This doesn't make you wrong or me right. You are aware of what's annoying you, I'm suggesting a way to remedy it.
 
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Bigbee

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Pauly Paul said:
Taxi for Mr Bathurst. Destination, Fulham Broadway...

I and I suspect many others love Brentford as a small club. Do you know why? Because individually or together we can create something. We can get involved, direct and coalesce our energies and see an end product. We can have Indian head massage at half time and big hugs before kick off .It might not be what others regard as "perfect" but its ours nonetheless. Brentford FC is now our project, our creation, our baby.We're installing herbal cigarette machines by the food kiosks, wow ! mind blowing baby !

Instead of being on a trip, it can now be product of the fans collective energies and ideas man . Like all things energy related, kinda freaky ,but what we all put in we'll all get back. Submit negative energy man and you'll get it back, do the opposite and we might all be able to create something wonderful,and live togther in big groups in tents and VW campervans.We can climb trees to stop road works and dig holes and live in the them.We can go on anti Global marches in London man .If you want to remain passive and distant then maybe if you don't like what you see it's time to move on. If you want to contribute then you'd be more effective by being constructive with your criticism or better still by getting involved at a level where your ideas can help shape the reality.

This is no dream man, believe in your influence and your points of view will be incorporated and assimilated.God bless lentil soup and sandals
 
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Bigbee

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"It hurts to have been stuffed at home, but it would have hurt a lot more in front of half as many people at Kingstonian"....etc...


Quote by Mrs V Bates



ok ,time to do some work



;)
 

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Thomas,

I fully agree with your last post on here and I think that PJ's post in response is valid. I hope that the 'proof of the pudding' is a positive one but I'm not optimistic given the comments made about the Lionel Rd situation in the Chronicle.

I really hope that this is not an 'all eggs in one basket' scenario.
 

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A bit radical for this type of discussion I know, but to go back to Thomas’s original post and the points raised within

· The worst football I have witnessed in 25 years …
Without doubt the quality of football on offer at times this season has been dire, but probably no worse than what was on offer under Eddie May and Clive Walker and arguably, continued under Mickey Adams in our last relegation season. We do have a squad of players that should be capable of comfortable mid-table obscurity especially in this very mediocre division. I think the management and coaching staff are under-performing, I have to hope that the Executive Committee are keeping and eye on the situation and would act before it becomes too late, but we have no evidence either way so we just have to trust them on this one.

· Without a win at home for 3 months …
Well that one has been put to bed by a better performance on Saturday, the kind of performance we should have been used to seeing every home game. I hope that level will now become the norm for the remainder of the season. I am confident that we will survive if we can play the rest of the season with that commitment, passion and skill level. I am not sure I have faith in the ability of the management to keep the team playing at that level but for now, we just have to hope they can.
· Orchestrated by a manager who hasn’t a clue.
I think it’s fair to say that a sizeable number of Bees fans share this view of the manager. It’s probably a good sign that the board appear determined not to be “panicked” into premature action, I guess however that timing is everything here, and action too late will be disastrous. The board do have some sympathy from me on the issue though as they are in a no-win situation in terms of both finance and also fan’s views. Whatever option they opt for they will be castigated if they get it wrong.
· £6.5 million of debt and rising
We must remember that the present board did not create this debt, that is solely down to Mr Noades and morally I think he should be prepared to take a “hit” on some of it. I think that the executive committee are doing a fair job of managing the club within the constraints placed upon them by the debt but it is without doubt a millstone we need to remove as soon as we can. My one big worry is that Bees United doesn’t appear to be doing much to get the debt re-financed on more favourable terms. Sitting around until the options runs out and hoping that either a) Lionel Road is a definite or b) Ron Noades will have an attack of benevolence are realistic options.

· A stadium “dream” at stalemate
I doubt it’s really at stalemate but somehow there must be a way of getting the message across better. There are E-mail updates and the like but we really need to get the message across better and create a growing feeling of momentum towards the stadium, and get the “rank-and-file” Bees fans together working towards the “dream”
· Certain players in the team who are scarcely better than I was at their age
Football is all about opinions so I guess that there is little point trying to address this point. I think we have some good players, some average players and perhaps one or two sub-standard ones. With money the way it is I guess that is the best we can do at the moment.
· A “comical” board of directors who are seemingly afraid to say “boo” to a goose
I think Mr Bathurst perceives a lack of comment on certain issues to be a lack of courage? I would on balance rather have a board that took a considered approach than one that went around making comments “on the hoof”. The board needs to improve it’s PR but I have to say that John McGlashan has always tried to make time to listen and answer questions put to him. I have sent him several e-mails in the past and they have all been answered fairly quickly. Perhaps the feedback needs to be improved in both directions?
· Forced to sell our best assets for peanuts
For English Football League teams trying to sell to Premiership teams it really is a buyers market. Southampton knew we needed the money and could have found that out by reading the GPG! In reality it was always that the bigger clubs have the smaller ones over a barrel, but Bosman and the Premier League (with their cheap foreign imports) have made the situation worse.
· More experienced players upping and leaving, just when we need them
Is Roget that much of a loss? We have Sonko, Kitamarike, Somner and Wells who can play in his position, He has spent most of this season either injured or suspended and would have been one of the higher wage earners at the club. He started off well but faded badly around the time our form dipped last January.
· Fans split and arguing amongst themselves
Bees United biggest failing so far has been their inability to unite the fans behind them. Simply saying “we have Brentford’s best interests at heart and are the fan’s representatives” is not good enough. They must show strong, decisive and imaginative leadership to get the majority of the fans behind what they are trying to do.
· A stadium manager hell-bent on alienating fans further
Not someone appointed by the current board and probably we would have to be very careful about getting rid of him, we don’t want another Hargraves situation. Perhaps we need a qualified stadium manager by law? If that were the case then he would be almost “fire-proof” during the season.
In summary the hope Thomas wants has to (for the moment) be the hope that we survive, the hope we can get Lionel Road off the ground and the hope we don’t go down this season. Long term we need to get the debt burden lifted, or at least eased ASAP. Standing still and as Thomas says, simply “keeping the club alive” is not going to cut it and will become more and more difficult the more any realistic chance of success fades. Perhaps John and the others have jumped into a situation they don’t or didn’t know enough about, perhaps John regrets making his “he’s got something that belongs to me” speech? I don’t know. I do know that right now the only two alternatives to John, Andrew and Stephen are Ron Noades and administration. I would urge all supporters who share Thomas’s concerns to get in touch with Bees United either directly or via PJ or Stedders, we simply must make this thing work. To quote Martin Lange “there isn’t a queue of people down the Chiswick High Road wanting to invest in or buy Brentford FC” People who attack Thomas Bathurst out of some kind of “party loyalty” are doing Bees fans no favours here, we must keep all lines of communication open between the grass-roots and the boardroom.
 

Baz Bee

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I can see both sides to this.

Unfortunately though, I am also aware that other options were open to BU approx 18 months or so ago. Certain individuals, acting probably somewhat independently of the BU Executive, scuppered what may have been an option that would have got Noades out and offered the club some security and stability for a period of many years. This was never made public. Furthermore, advice was given that the deal from Noades to “take over” on the terms being offered was effectively suicide. Certain respected(?) members of GPG are fully aware of what happened and made their views known to the BU Exec at the time.

To some extent that played straight in to Noades's hands and the softly softly approach has left us in the predicament we are now facing today. It is not a case of if you do not like it you do it better. I probably couldn't do it better and in any case would not want to. But then I've admitted that and they haven't! They were not pressed to take the club over and could just as easily have said no. In fact that may then have put them in a much stronger position to negotiate with Noades. The problem now is that BU have effectively assumed responsibility for a debt created by Noades and have received no relief from it. Why? Anyone with even a modicum of intelligence and a reasonable level of business acumen would have ensured that whoever created the problem assumed at least some level of responsibility for it.

Noades must now spend his time laughing in his gin and tonic whilst lazing in the sun around the pool. Whilst we all spend our time trying to raise a few quid in the cold and wet to keep the monstrous debt serviced. The Board must be more transparent in what is going on if they want the supporters to persevere. They must also demonstrate that they are competent to do the job, at the moment there is little evidence available to show that. Hard work, being nice chaps and being supporters is just not a good enough pedigree to achieve what is required.

:sad:
 

Amsterdam Bee

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Baz Bee said:
Unfortunately though, I am also aware that other options were open to BU approx 18 months or so ago. Certain individuals, acting probably somewhat independently of the BU Executive, scuppered what may have been an option that would have got Noades out and offered the club some security and stability for a period of many years. This was never made public. Furthermore, advice was given that the deal from Noades to “take over” on the terms being offered was effectively suicide. Certain respected(?) members of GPG are fully aware of what happened and made their views known to the BU Exec at the time.

To some extent that played straight in to Noades's hands and the softly softly approach has left us in the predicament we are now facing today. It is not a case of if you do not like it you do it better. I probably couldn't do it better and in any case would not want to. But then I've admitted that and they haven't! They were not pressed to take the club over and could just as easily have said no. In fact that may then have put them in a much stronger position to negotiate with Noades. The problem now is that BU have effectively assumed responsibility for a debt created by Noades and have received no relief from it. Why? Anyone with even a modicum of intelligence and a reasonable level of business acumen would have ensured that whoever created the problem assumed at least some level of responsibility for it.



:sad:

What would have happened if BU had said no to Noades at the time?
Would that not have been administration and the sale of GP?

Or are we assuming that Noades would have negotiated the debt as he wouldn't want to be seen as the "killer" of a football club?
 

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At the end of the day everybody at BU is working to save BFC because they love the club - we all do.

It doesn`t mean they can`t cock up and they have - but who hasn`t. I think JM needs someone above him at BFC to wield the axe etc..
But what saddens me most is that people say they are walking away because they don`t like the product or the manager.

We all have throwing toys out of the pram days, but I thought we were all fighting together to save our club. I want to see the club saved and see it through.

Lets all stick together and ensure BFC survives.

We need everybodies views and opinions, we don`t need people walking away because the product is poor on the pitch.

PS: Didn`t Saturday remind you why you support BFC - WELL PLAYED LADS!!!
 

Baz Bee

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Amsterdam Bee said:
What would have happened if BU had said no to Noades at the time?
Would that not have been administration and the sale of GP?

Or are we assuming that Noades would have negotiated the debt as he wouldn't want to be seen as the "killer" of a football club?

That is the art of negotiation though. You did not have to say No, nor did you have to say Yes. You play the game which includes bluff, counter bluff, brinkmanship and whatever other tactics you need to employ to ensure that you achieve the best deal you can.

My understanding is that Noades said boo and everyone was so frightened they capitaulated to him. I know it was not as quite as simplistic as that, but then I believe the reality is not too far removed from there either! Indeed, did all the BU Exec agree with the terms offered?
:confused:
 
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