readingbee
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His free kick to Toney, was quality and he knew exactly were it was going to go.
Emiliano Marcondes - Signs to June 2021
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badgerbee
Mafeking Avenue........gets you there!!!!
Tbf I've been getting a bit bored of beating them easily over the past few years.
Having them still in the game towards the end made it a bit of a change, and a bit more exciting!!!!
jlove
Well-known member
Yeah, never got past the first man...
readingbee
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jlove
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A comment that some posters make about his delivery... in this case, Toney was the first man.Sorry
readingbee
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Ahh. Ok
Isleworth_Bee
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Isleworth_Bee
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Really good performance.
Emiliano really does divide opinion, doesn’t he? From some of the post match comments on here you’d think we’d witnessed a midfield maestro at work last night. Personally, I thought he was decidedly average in the first half and a bit better in the second. Should have scored, but nice ball in for Ivan’s goal. Swings and roundabouts. Then I read he was MoTM? You’re having a laugh. No, just no. So I wondered if I was being unfair and looked for an independent view. The only player ratings I could find were:
www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk
8 - Henry, Janelt, Toney
7 - Mbeumo, Pinnock, Jansson, Jensen, Raya
6 - Fosu, Marcondes, Sorensen
5 - Dalsgaard
4 - Dasilva
Unnecessarily harsh on Josh and probably a bit generous to Fosu, but that’s - relatively - how I’d have rated the players too. Rico, Vitaly and Ivan the standouts for me. Terrific half-time introductions of Pontus and Mathias. Bryan showing more of his old self. Which leaves Emiliano as our ninth best player in my book. That’s not “hating” or “scapegoating”, just an honest opinion - like the journalist’s, presumably. I‘d love Emiliano to come good and provide that midfield masterclass, but I really didn’t see it last night.
PLAYER RATINGS: Brentford 2 QPR 1 - Who was the Bees' saviour?
Here's how the Brentford players rated in their 2-1 win over QPR.
www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk
8 - Henry, Janelt, Toney
7 - Mbeumo, Pinnock, Jansson, Jensen, Raya
6 - Fosu, Marcondes, Sorensen
5 - Dalsgaard
4 - Dasilva
Unnecessarily harsh on Josh and probably a bit generous to Fosu, but that’s - relatively - how I’d have rated the players too. Rico, Vitaly and Ivan the standouts for me. Terrific half-time introductions of Pontus and Mathias. Bryan showing more of his old self. Which leaves Emiliano as our ninth best player in my book. That’s not “hating” or “scapegoating”, just an honest opinion - like the journalist’s, presumably. I‘d love Emiliano to come good and provide that midfield masterclass, but I really didn’t see it last night.
An alternative (yet still independent view) from who scored has him rated as our 4th best player last night: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...nship-2020-2021-Brentford-Queens-Park-RangersEmiliano really does divide opinion, doesn’t he? From some of the post match comments on here you’d think we’d witnessed a midfield maestro at work last night. Personally, I thought he was decidedly average in the first half and a bit better in the second. Should have scored, but nice ball in for Ivan’s goal. Swings and roundabouts. Then I read he was MoTM? You’re having a laugh. No, just no. So I wondered if I was being unfair and looked for an independent view. The only player ratings I could find were:
PLAYER RATINGS: Brentford 2 QPR 1 - Who was the Bees' saviour?
Here's how the Brentford players rated in their 2-1 win over QPR.
8 - Henry, Janelt, Toney
7 - Mbeumo, Pinnock, Jansson, Jensen, Raya
6 - Fosu, Marcondes, Sorensen
5 - Dalsgaard
4 - Dasilva
Unnecessarily harsh on Josh and probably a bit generous to Fosu, but that’s - relatively - how I’d have rated the players too. Rico, Vitaly and Ivan the standouts for me. Terrific half-time introductions of Pontus and Mathias. Bryan showing more of his old self. Which leaves Emiliano as our ninth best player in my book. That’s not “hating” or “scapegoating”, just an honest opinion - like the journalist’s, presumably. I‘d love Emiliano to come good and provide that midfield masterclass, but I really didn’t see it last night.
Personally I'd go along with that but we all see the game differently.
jlove
Well-known member
Whoscored ratings are weighted towards attacking and goals, which is a better indication of contribution to positive results. More scientific than a local reporter, too. I usually look at their report and it is quite interesting in that it usually differs from my subjective view but, then, when I look at their details, I can see why.
TheHairdresser
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Can't even have a pop at his top knot as the tightness of its weave deflected a goalbound Barbet fk last night.......
GloucesterB
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Anyone reading some of these posts might think Emiliano was the devil! He looks like a talented footballer to me. Just like some of the Sergi comments on here. Another talented guy who always gives 100%.
Mark H
Active member
Fair analysis in my view. I don’t see many games so I can only say what I saw last night. I felt in the first half he was slow to react when we needed to press and was caught on his heels when he was needed to track back. He missed a very good chance and then fluffed a free kick In an excellent position. Yes he did play some good passes and the cross for Toney’s goal was superb. I love it what you criticise someone favourite player and then you are accused of hating him(I have never hated a Bees player in 50 years). The world is so polarised these days. He has never really established himself in the team and it looks likely he will be off in the summer. So we might never see his full potential here.Emiliano really does divide opinion, doesn’t he? From some of the post match comments on here you’d think we’d witnessed a midfield maestro at work last night. Personally, I thought he was decidedly average in the first half and a bit better in the second. Should have scored, but nice ball in for Ivan’s goal. Swings and roundabouts. Then I read he was MoTM? You’re having a laugh. No, just no. So I wondered if I was being unfair and looked for an independent view. The only player ratings I could find were:
PLAYER RATINGS: Brentford 2 QPR 1 - Who was the Bees' saviour?
Here's how the Brentford players rated in their 2-1 win over QPR.
8 - Henry, Janelt, Toney
7 - Mbeumo, Pinnock, Jansson, Jensen, Raya
6 - Fosu, Marcondes, Sorensen
5 - Dalsgaard
4 - Dasilva
Unnecessarily harsh on Josh and probably a bit generous to Fosu, but that’s - relatively - how I’d have rated the players too. Rico, Vitaly and Ivan the standouts for me. Terrific half-time introductions of Pontus and Mathias. Bryan showing more of his old self. Which leaves Emiliano as our ninth best player in my book. That’s not “hating” or “scapegoating”, just an honest opinion - like the journalist’s, presumably. I‘d love Emiliano to come good and provide that midfield masterclass, but I really didn’t see it last night.
UnsungZero
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And the coaching staff's decisions will be heavily influenced by factors which are less obvious to many fans who are following the ball. I think Andy Hinchcliffe is an insightful co-commentator and I suspect most people didn't pick on things like EM's decoy run that he praised for opening things up ahead of the disallowed goal.
westendbee
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I’m not looking for man of the match performances from him but if he’s 7 out of 10 every game that will suit me (and the team!) fine
IslandBee
Now Off-Island Bee
I don't think so. It was just a reaction against the frankly prejudiced, blinkered comments of some who have set their mind against him and everything he does.
He had a decent game last night, did some good things throughout the game, worked hard and provided an important assist. However, we all know (and no doubt he does as well) he has not performed at a high enough level consistently during his time with us.
If he gets more chances, he will definitely need to perform at last night's level and above to be offered another contract IMO
shaun
Active member
I don’t think any Brentford fan hates the team. I was critical of him last night in the first half. He was better in the second half and to be fair, the cross for Toneys goal was very good. Thing is though that he is an attacking midfielder and according to the stats has no goals in 14 matches this season, 2 assists (one of which was last night) and in 10 league games something like 5 shots on target. That’s nowhere near impactful enough for that position.
jlove
Well-known member
None of our attacking midfielders look good statistically, that is a general problem, not much to differentiate between them, really.
Dasilva: 1 goals; 1 assist; 1.3 shots/game; 1.4 key passes/game
Jensen: 0 goals; 3 assists; 0.6 shots/game; 1.2 key passes/game
Marcondes: 0 goals; 2 assists; 1.5 shots/game; 1.2 key passes/game
(Can't really include Baptiste with only 9 minutes in the Championship)
shaun
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Yes. Don’t disagree. For what worth, I said before the season started that our weakest part of the team last season was midfield and that it was going to be this season as well!
liverbee
Active member
He was not as good as Ivan, Rico or Bryan last night. He played a positive role. I'm happy with that for now.
Mr Cynical
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Thought he had a good first half though. Pressed well, got into good positions, supported Toney and moved the ball well. Also got back into shape when defending and tackled back. Only criticism would be that he should have scored when he leapt on the keepers mistake. A pass into the corner rather than power was what was needed. I think we're better for him being in the team as he opens things up and creates more space for the wide players. Mbeumo didn't have as much attention last night partly because Marcondes was constantly on the inside of him giving an option which drew a player away, just like he did with his run for Mbeumo to cross for Toney's offside goal.
Frothybaby
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I watched the game again today (without the drama/emotion of last night). I thought EM was decent in a side that was a way off the team of last season. IT, RH were better. I thought he was on a par with BM & VJ. I don't get those seeing VJ as MOM, especially after at least three passes put us in danger. However I still love VJ as I do EM. EM was one of the few players getting into threatening areas to support IT. He worked hard getting back, won tackles/free kicks, and passed the ball without the difficulty we have seen from many to date. I do think some fans get frustrated when things aren't going the way they want, and that becomes the fault of some players. EM seems to be the focus usually. JDS was a way off his usual form and Fosu struggled. It happens. We will see more of this until we click or have a full strength squad to choose from.
IslandBee
Now Off-Island Bee
Are there stats on ground covered or something similar?
jlove
Well-known member
As the players wear EPTS (electronic performance and tracking systems), the club has all this data. I'd guess it is being used to inform player selection and substitution decisions (like Dasilva's replacement at half-time, possibly).
UnsungZero
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Some of the other stats which are likely to be informing selection decisions are covered in this post from @BeesAnalytica
jlove
Well-known member
NO, NO, NO, NO! You can't be showing things like that at this time of the morning...
Mikey Bee
Active member
Based on those stats, we need to get rid of the 3 lightweights at the bottom. Negative numbers? Pah....
Vid
Active member
That’s the problem with stats. Statistically based on me waking up again today , I will live forever.
When he first arrived he came with the reputation of being a part Brazilian flamboyant goal scoring striker. Except for a few fleeting occasions he looked completely lost in that role.
Since his return from his loan he has morphed into a hard working midfield player who plays his part in defensive duties and with an eye for a creative pass and free kick. In effect he has become a team player rather than an individual player. That may have damped down his match winning statistics and eye catching moments but for me he does well and is pretty useful in his new role.
Since his return from his loan he has morphed into a hard working midfield player who plays his part in defensive duties and with an eye for a creative pass and free kick. In effect he has become a team player rather than an individual player. That may have damped down his match winning statistics and eye catching moments but for me he does well and is pretty useful in his new role.
So, Rico makes 19 successful passes from 25 attempts, puts in 2 accurate crosses and creates an assist from open play (14th/15).
Emiliano makes 20 from 26, puts in 1 accurate cross and creates an assist from a dead ball. (1st/15).
Marcondes's "Successful Passes Value Add" 0.531, Henry's -.0184.
Yep, I'm convinced by this graphic/stat
amersfoort bee
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Well the bottom three have been toilet all season so far
Bridge Bee
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I think we’re more of a goal threat with him in the side (through him creating....clearly not scoring at the momen)....but I also think we’re more likely to concede as well.
QPR dominated midfield 1st half. Got to the edge of our box far too easily and runners weren’t tracked. Not saying this is all down to EM but the changes 2nd half, which moved him away from the middle of the pitch, worked.
A case of do the positives outweigh the negatives. That’s for TF to decide.
QPR dominated midfield 1st half. Got to the edge of our box far too easily and runners weren’t tracked. Not saying this is all down to EM but the changes 2nd half, which moved him away from the middle of the pitch, worked.
A case of do the positives outweigh the negatives. That’s for TF to decide.
Mr Cynical
Well-known member
They mostly got there via the flanks though. I don't think there's any great issue with Marcondes and the defensive side, for an attacking midfielder he does a remarkable amount of defensive work and very quickly gets back into our defensive shape when we need to, despite generally being the furthest forward. He ended up winning the same number of tackles as Janelt against QPR. Obviously he's not going to be another Norgaard in that respect but that's not what he's there for.
UnsungZero
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I'm sure the Marcondes doubters are sick of the amount of activity here since Friday but just one last pitch from me. EM has played 58% of the minutes in the 14 league games so far. In the time he has been on the pitch the goal difference is +8 (F 15 A 7) and when off the pitch -1 (F5 A6). Raw data available at Soccerbase. At the very least, it questions the idea that he's the liability that some think.
shaun
Active member
Unless they are playing him against the easier teams....
Vid
Active member
I think this shows a fundamental error in understanding statistics.
mhead bee
Well-known member
Yes but we didn't win a couple of games last week so our whole squad became not good enough and we should break the strategy and get panic loans from Arsenal reserves. Come on, you get it.
Holysmit
Well-known member
What out the use of stats. He just strikes me as a confidence player. When his confidence is up he is brilliant. When it drops he struggles. Hopefully Friday will put his confidence up significantly.
Isleworth_Bee
Well-known member
He was never signed as a striker.
jlove
Well-known member
The model uses a 'pass value' – as a simple example, a successful pass in the final third has a greater pass value than an equally successful pass in the defensive third. It attempts to overcome the issue that Arsenal first found when using raw pass data some years ago, that their most successful passers were the centre backs who kept passing to each other.So, Rico makes 19 successful passes from 25 attempts, puts in 2 accurate crosses and creates an assist from open play (14th/15).
Emiliano makes 20 from 26, puts in 1 accurate cross and creates an assist from a dead ball. (1st/15).
Marcondes's "Successful Passes Value Add" 0.531, Henry's -.0184.
Yep, I'm convinced by this graphic/stat
Surely this metric suffers from the same problem - players of certain positions will have an intrinsically higher 'pass value added' over the course of a game. I don't think any graph that compares the pass values of attacking midfielders to defenders or strikers is going to be much use. The only interesting part of that graph to me is that Dalsgaard seemingly performs much better than Henry for pass value (in what you'd assume were comparable positions).
jlove
Well-known member
This method, as are most of the analytics, is focused on goals/xG. 'Value' is linked to winning games, as the creator says "The second piece of reasoning is that to win a game a team must score more goals than the other team." Typically, defenders are judged on interceptions, clearances, blocks, dribbles, focused on xGA.
Exactly my point. It's strange to include defenders in the chart when they will clearly be judged on other contributions.
Mr Cynical
Well-known member
I guess with the way we play it's still relevant? Given that we like to play out from the back and expect a lot attacking wise from our full backs. It's interesting that Rico was so low but we know that's an area he needs to improve. Equally we probably want to get a bit more out of our CBs bringing the ball out so all relevant.
jlove
Well-known member
I believe every player was included, except Raya.