Expectations for Season 20/21 (1 Viewer)

Gazza Bee

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I will stick my neck out and say that I think Swansea and Reading will miss out.
Bournemouth and Cardiff in.
We miss out on second by one point.
Zero chance Swansea miss out which would be good for us. Swans, us, Barnsley and Bournemouth for me with semi v Bournemouth for us and Barnsley beating Swansea in the other semi.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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I reckon we need 9 points to ensure a play off place, which would mean 7th place getting 18, 2 points per game.
 

Jam Jar

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Ideal scenario is 3 points behind Watford going into the Watford game with Swansea also level on points with us, meaning a Bees and Swansea win takes it into final day scenario where Watford vs Swansea becomes a bloodbath and we need beat a Bristol City team with nothing to play for.

Experience tells you even the teams who have nothing to play for can play spoiler (as QPR did to WBA on last game of the season)
 

Jay Bee

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Also lets not forget against the top 8 sides Watford have played 10 and only won 3 this season. Still got to play another 6 of them.

Plenty of time to hit the wall.
Do you mean, wins rest of the top 9? (they'll play the rest of the top 9 16 times in total of course).
Not meaning to be pedantic. I think it might be four, but either way that is a good stat. Especially as one of them was the 99th minute winner at Cardiff and it appears the others were against Norwich, Barnsley and against Middlesbrough back in September.

I think it might be "take your pick" from these two:
Against the top 8 sides Watford have played 9 and only won 3 this season. Still got to play another 5 of them.
and
Against the top 9 sides Watford have played 10 and only won 4 this season. Still got to play another 6 of them.
 

Jay Bee

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Experience tells you even the teams who have nothing to play for can play spoiler (as QPR did to WBA on last game of the season)
True, but history also throws up other examples like us folding against Blackburn a few years ago who needed a result to stay up ... they were relegated because someone else also won.
 

Kingston Bee

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Ideal scenario is 3 points behind Watford going into the Watford game with Swansea also level on points with us, meaning a Bees and Swansea win takes it into final day scenario where Watford vs Swansea becomes a bloodbath and we need beat a Bristol City team with nothing to play for.

Experience tells you even the teams who have nothing to play for can play spoiler (as QPR did to WBA on last game of the season)
It's never that easy though, is it. I see a scenario where we need Swansea to take points off Watford last game. Only problem is Swansea are out of the running for the autos and are focusing on the play offs. They field a B team 11 against Watford and get beat easily condemning us to the POs. Would just be our luck, we cannot afford to rely on anyone else.
 

The Pipe

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Seem to recall in the depths of History that Watford contrived a result to either get us relegated or not promoted, no doubt the Historians will correct me but would hate lightening to strike twice if my memory is correct
 
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Seem to recall in the depths of History that Watford contrived a result to either get us relegated or not promoted, no doubt the Historians will correct me but would hate lightening to strike twice if my memory is correct
Yes, they apparently took the money on offer, lay down and allowed Brighton to win 6-0 and deprive us of the one promotion spot available back in 1958 or 9
 

oxfordbee

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Just read an article by Adam Virgo about the Bees in "The Football League Player". His analysis is absolutely bang on. He says some really nice things about us, but highlights that we don't have a deep enough squad, and never have had. Apart from first 8 games, we did really well last season, and just missed out on promotion. But last season we didn't suffer anything like we have this season from injuries to key players. To be honest, from the start of this season, looking at our performances, we've never had that pzazz about our football that we've had for the past seasons in the Championship, and I thought why have we got more points at this stage of the season. Answer - Ivan Toney.
 

LingfieldBee

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Just read an article by Adam Virgo about the Bees in "The Football League Player". His analysis is absolutely bang on. He says some really nice things about us, but highlights that we don't have a deep enough squad, and never have had. Apart from first 8 games, we did really well last season, and just missed out on promotion. But last season we didn't suffer anything like we have this season from injuries to key players. To be honest, from the start of this season, looking at our performances, we've never had that pzazz about our football that we've had for the past seasons in the Championship, and I thought why have we got more points at this stage of the season. Answer - Ivan Toney.
It's squad depth and match winners we've lacked. SB missing and MB lack of form yes has assists but his general play.
 

Ashford Bees

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Just read an article by Adam Virgo about the Bees in "The Football League Player". His analysis is absolutely bang on. He says some really nice things about us, but highlights that we don't have a deep enough squad, and never have had. Apart from first 8 games, we did really well last season, and just missed out on promotion. But last season we didn't suffer anything like we have this season from injuries to key players. To be honest, from the start of this season, looking at our performances, we've never had that pzazz about our football that we've had for the past seasons in the Championship, and I thought why have we got more points at this stage of the season. Answer - Ivan Toney.
Anyone know what league position we'd be in without his goals? Just out of interest more than anything
 

Jay Bee

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Anyone know what league position we'd be in without his goals? Just out of interest more than anything
Didn't a fan of another club work out we'd be 20th or something?
But that assumes that nobody played instead of him, every chance he scored couldn't have been scored by another player, and we'd have missed every single penalty this season. Even this other fan's mates told him to get a life....
 

mhead bee

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Auto gone, not confident about play offs !!!!

No chance

7 point gap to Watford, game in hand =4
Beat them = 1 point swing
They have to play 6 of the top 8 including Norwich, Brentford and Swansea and so far this season have only won 3 in 10 attempts versus the top 8.
Have won 8 of the last 9 and the only defeat coming against the only top 8 side they played in that run.

OK, Watford can beat the gubbins, lets see if they can beat the top sides who have beaten them at virtually every attempt this season before we give up.
 

Alexander

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Also lets not forget against the top 8 sides Watford have played 10 and only won 3 this season. Still got to play another 6 of them.

Plenty of time to hit the wall.
But let's not forget that until January they had a different manager system and a different side. They have got a lot better under their new coach and have taken more points, scored more goals and conceded the least in the division since he come in, they would probably be well ahead if they had this manager and a few of the injured players that have come back into the side from the start.
 
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Alexander

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3rd - 6th will be a fantastic achievement for us. Our points tally is well above what I expected.

We went on a great run which got our hopes up though.

Watford & Norwich haven’t just come good at the right time they’ve had big & experienced squads all along. Bournemouth have underperformed imo.

Any chance of us finishing 2nd we need to massively up our game management and grind out results , we don’t look like blitzing teams at the moment. It’s definitely doable and in our hands, if we can switch back on then hopefully we’ll still be in it come the Watford game 👍🏻
Yes they are two clubs that know what it takes to get out of this division and have done it in the passed and have players with experience.
 

AB

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But let's not forget that until January they had a different manager system and a different side. They have got a lot better under their new coach and have taken more points, scored more goals and conceded the least in the division since he come in, they would probably be well ahead if they had this manager and a few of the injured players that have come back into the side from the start.
True, though also worth remembering their flaky ownership. Lose a couple of games and they could bin the manager. Stay on track so they look safe and (as they did with Pearson last season when he’d set them up to stay up) they could sack the manager. They could quite easily turn into a completely different side just for the last 3-4 games.
 

Castleview

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Like the post, just made me angry remembering.
To rub it in the following season I believe 2 went up & we finished 3rd behind Plymouth & Hull. We stuffed Plymouth 3 0 at GP in front of over 29,000 on Good Fri.

[/QUOTE]
 

Shamrock_Bee

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Just read an article by Adam Virgo about the Bees in "The Football League Player". His analysis is absolutely bang on. He says some really nice things about us, but highlights that we don't have a deep enough squad, and never have had. Apart from first 8 games, we did really well last season, and just missed out on promotion. But last season we didn't suffer anything like we have this season from injuries to key players. To be honest, from the start of this season, looking at our performances, we've never had that pzazz about our football that we've had for the past seasons in the Championship, and I thought why have we got more points at this stage of the season. Answer - Ivan Toney.
We can't argue with Adam's analysis as he is spot on. At the end of this season there will be time for everyone at the top to sit back and review the last two campaigns; one ran straight into another and there hasn't been time to properly reflect.

If we're able to get the squad all fit, up to speed and go into a mini end of season tournament in good shape then this may be the season we go up. I don't think we have depth at the minute to make up the gap on Watford but on our day with Ivan Toney in top form we're one of the best teams in the league.

My theory especially after seeing how on fire we were post lockdown last season is we've looked like strong promotion candidates every season since we've been in the championship. From selling Vibe during a January to running out of stream, to our competitors being smart in the January loan market, to having to get through a yearly transitional period, our model brings us to the brink but ultimately is it the model that will get us promoted?

Last season was different, we didn't need a squad to go 46 games in a normal 9 month season, our lack of depth and other factors weren't at play. In the end it's no coincidence it's the season we came closest to going up. This season has seen us fall to the same problems we've encountered before, my big hope is we're able to use the lay off's we've experienced to have a fresh squad in May and eventually get some luck to win the play off's.

Ivan has hid most of our problems this season and I do believe his signing was imperative to us firstly being comfortable this season and then challenging for promotion. He won't be in the championship next season, so if we fall short then my opinion is a big review will take place after this season.

What a hugely important signing Ivan was.
 

Alexander

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True, though also worth remembering their flaky ownership. Lose a couple of games and they could bin the manager. Stay on track so they look safe and (as they did with Pearson last season when he’d set them up to stay up) they could sack the manager. They could quite easily turn into a completely different side just for the last 3-4 games.
That's true something must've happened behind the scenes for Pearson to get the sack when he did, I think it was said elsewhere that ou may have been partly down to his health at the time. With the exception of last season their owners have mostly got the managerial decisions correct even if it goes agaisnt the narrative and norms of British football. They gained promotion using 4 managers in one season and were not in a relegation fight once in the Premier League until last season. They seem to have got this one right.
 
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Indian Bee

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Realistically we need to win 7 and draw 1 or even win all 8 of our remaining games to get top 2. If we can somehow be 3 points adrift of Watford by the time we play them (bearing in mind Norwich would want to clinch the Championship the week before and are at home to Watford) then game on. Just so frustrating and disappointing we drew our last 3 as our run in on paper is so much easier then Watford.

One positive after 38 games last year we had only 63 points and were 8 points behind 2nd with playing a game more.
 

JasonBee

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IB all ifs, buts & maybes now. Been a good season but this horse looks to have run out of legs . As AB mentioned probably better to rest our key men and prepare for playoffs like Villa did a few season ago.
 

Bee1895

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Auto promotion is still possible but highly unlikely.
I was pretty sure we could do great in the playoffs this time, but now I am pretty worried.
We're stuck in a vicious circle of mediocre performances and zero self confidence. Huddersfield is amongst the worst teams in the league and yet we are not able to beat them.
You lose self confidence when not beating such teams and you do not beat those teams with no self confidence.
I hope it will be back in time, otherwise we'll not even make it to Wembley this year.
 

Bee1895

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No chance

7 point gap to Watford, game in hand =4
Beat them = 1 point swing
They have to play 6 of the top 8 including Norwich, Brentford and Swansea and so far this season have only won 3 in 10 attempts versus the top 8.
Have won 8 of the last 9 and the only defeat coming against the only top 8 side they played in that run.

OK, Watford can beat the gubbins, lets see if they can beat the top sides who have beaten them at virtually every attempt this season before we give up.
Everybody keeps calculating how to reach second spot but yet we fail to deliver the results. No calculating needed, just wins.
 

hardybee

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Auto promotion is still possible but highly unlikely.
I was pretty sure we could do great in the playoffs this time, but now I am pretty worried.
We're stuck in a vicious circle of mediocre performances and zero self confidence. Huddersfield is amongst the worst teams in the league and yet we are not able to beat them.
You lose self confidence when not beating such teams and you do not beat those teams with no self confidence.
I hope it will be back in time, otherwise we'll not even make it to Wembley this year.
I was surprised with the performance, like you say Huddersfield are poor. I thought given the break (I know some players were on international) from championship football we were going to come out firing. Giving the goal away again early doesn’t help though. We need to pick it up quickly, even if it means going into the play offs off the back of some good performances. I personally think the unbeaten run hasn’t helped with our fans expectations, I would of taken play offs again at the start of the season but excitement grew and at one point anything less than top 2 was a failure. We’re in a good position generally but you wouldn’t want to head into the play offs the way we are playing. Plenty of games to find our form, starting with a good win on Tuesday. 🐝
 
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Indian Bee

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Sadly - play offs now for us. Not that I don't expect Watford to drop points because they will but I can't see us winning 7 games on the spin now. No chance.

We need to 3 wins and a point to confirm our play off place.
 

AB

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Let’s just let the shackles off and not worry about automatic. Get the team concentrating on doing the right things, keeping fit, building confidence and just picking up the small number of results needed to seal POs so we can go into them with hopefully Rico, Josh and Henrik all fit and fresh, underestimated by all.

They haven’t all suddenly become rubbish but second was a tall order once we lost Rico and Josh, possibly slightly before as both were below their best for a few games before they were out.

Going up for the first time through the POs will be the best and we might even get to see it happen in person.
 

davewfilms

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We dont seem to have any other plan keeps playing same formation same players clearly not working we need another option and to drop the players that are not performing.If not looks like we will stumble into the play offs no form no confidence and same result.
 

Alexander

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Starting to be concerned that a playoff space might be in danger only 5 points ahead of Bournemouth now.
 

Jam Jar

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I have a feeling it might take more than 74 points to make the playoffs. I guess limping in there releases the pressure a bit. Recall the season where we lost to Crewe in the PO final we pretty much limped into the playoffs but put in a grand set of performances to see of Bristol City
 

Untouchable

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My expectation is still promotion.

Automatic is now obviously gone. Get some points on the board, get Rico, Henrik and JDS back and piss the play offs.

This’ll be the team that does it:

Raya
Dalsgaard Pontus Pinnock Henry
Jensen Norgaard JDS
Mbeumo Toney Canos

Cut the crap and make it happen Bees.
 

Frothybaby

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I realistically thought we would not make the top six this season. The loss of SB and OW and the rapid amount of games for a team that relies on pace after the cruel end to the previous season, on a young team, would be too massive.

Hats off to TF and everyone concerned. 4 points ahead of the best Bees team I've seen, this stage last season. With seven games to go, we have scored 5 less goals away from home and 9 less at home (GP!!!) The team was struggling going into the break prior to the return at Fulham. JDS said the break enabled the knocks to key players to clear up.

Looks like there has been planning into how to manage the season and get the best out of a knackered (mentally/physically) young team. I think Reading away the signs of our flatlining was obvious. This after being without our captain for most of the season and CN for a bit less. JDS couldn't keep going with the injury. Some players were already struggling for confidence, then we had a run of three defeats and it started to come crumbling down, we should be doing a Bristol City. I don't think PJ and CN would have the game time they have had, had we the choice. They are both a long way off the form they displayed prior to injury. SC is coming back but too little (understandably). RH injury topped it all off.

We are shattered throughout, (maybe IT and SG not). Since the start of last season, Raya, Henry, Ethan, Henrik, Jensen, Bryan, have all played more than 80 games. No wonder the mistakes are there. But how shattered are the others. Watford, Norwich and Bournemouth should be clear with the quality they have. Last season's PO teams are starting to come apart. I can't see us coming into form. We tire during the game. TF is relying on the safe hands he has available. He has no time to work on new things (a strength of ours when you consider the deadball moves). It's about doing the same thing that has been successful, with occasional slight tweaks. This is because when you tire it's down to doing what you always do. If we can stay in a game we have the quality to produce chances. The hope is to take more of them than the opposition.

Finally over half of the teams in our division are more interested in stopping the other team playing. We don't half the energy required physically or mentally to cope with the high press for 90 minutes.

I genuinely believe, had this been the 2018-19 season we would have won this league. I believe TF is the man for us. I hope we can develop the in-game nous to get better.

From now on I will cheer this team no matter the result or performance, instead of getting upset, because they are heroes for what they have achieved so far this season. I wish I could buy them a pint and tell them how good they have been and not to listen to those moaning about a mistake or because we haven't won more games.
 

Jay Bee

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I hate to make the comparison but I remember what the Fulham fans were saying on their board after we won at the Cottage back in June and then they got spanked by Leeds, there were seven games to go.
* Manager and team had run out of ideas
* A feeble looking end to a season where there was hope
* What's the point in the play offs anyway
(I'm aware that 4 draws is the not the same as two defeats to promotion rivals. If anything we should have more hope as we have a reasonable track record against the top 6)

I do not expect a chance of the top 2 at this point after last night to be honest...but I do expect us to give the play offs a good go, we have not become a bad team overnight.
 
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Indian Bee

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Is top 2 back on? Well despite a 5 nil win we are probably worse off than before Watford played last night as we both won and one less game to go for Watford.

With Reading losing last night, they realistically need to win 4 and draw 1 of their last 5 games - and I can certainly see us winning three out of out 6 remaining games - so unless we have a complete disaster then think we can be confident of being in the play offs at least.

More likely we will end up in the plays off than top 2 but never say never. I am just pleased we won and we won in style today.
 

Ashford Bees

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After today, and the ingenuity of our formation and tactics, I honestly feel that we can win the next 6 games. If that us enough to seal 2nd place, all the better. If not, we’ll be in great form heading into the playoffs. Either way, so proud of our team and TF. Whatever happens at the end of may, we’ve had a magnificent season.
 

Les Beeavinu

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After today, and the ingenuity of our formation and tactics, I honestly feel that we can win the next 6 games. If that us enough to seal 2nd place, all the better. If not, we’ll be in great form heading into the playoffs. Either way, so proud of our team and TF. Whatever happens at the end of may, we’ve had a magnificent season.

The GPG at it's finest. :D I enjoy this place so much more when the optimists turn up. :sorted:
 

mhead bee

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Of course it’s not over yet as we still have the play offs to get through but any sane Brentford fan will know we won’t win them, but then maybe we will for once but who really believes it will happen. I will scream and shout and wish and pray but in my heart I just can’t see us ever doing it.

Our 21 match run was brilliant and I started to genuinely believe this core group of players surrounded by some mediocrity might just have found the right combination to win games and do it the easy way however part of me had lost desire watching empty stadiums and not being there to be part of it.

The inevitable collapse can be explained in many ways and there are so many reasons; bad luck, running out of steam, injuries, the bigger squads having far more quality to call upon and maybe just Brentford doing a Brentford and sh*tting the bed when the gift is handed to them in lovely wrapping paper.

I think it is a bit of all of the above however for me the stand out reason is when it comes to scoring goals we are a one trick pony. Over the years we have collected players who have zero goals per game ratio’s, our back 4 chip in with nothing, our midfield three are the same, JDS can score goals but other than that we are dry.

The wide men have been “ok” I suppose with a handful each but when teams out 2-3 players on Toney you need goals from somewhere.

I am not one of these rediculois propel who thinks we will sell all our best players and settle for mid table, I think we will well 1 or 2 and replace and go again next year but in this season autopsy you have to say BM was 10% of last season, Ghoddos could be brilliant next year but had been a passenger this year and sergi has been his usual hit and miss. I don’t want to lose any of these three but we need another two better versions on the wing so we aren’t reliant on what are pretty average players. They all contribute but when we are relying on them as the main men we are never going to score enough goals IMO.

I am much happier to fail now and not lose to Watford on the last day and go through the same old Brentford Innit posts so I feel strangely relaxed about it all. The oaky offs feel like a free punch to me becaose there are better teams with bigger squads in form going into them,

I still believe next season will be massive for us whatever happens
 

AB

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Of course it’s not over yet as we still have the play offs to get through but any sane Brentford fan will know we won’t win them, but then maybe we will for once but who really believes it will happen. I will scream and shout and wish and pray but in my heart I just can’t see us ever doing it.

Our 21 match run was brilliant and I started to genuinely believe this core group of players surrounded by some mediocrity might just have found the right combination to win games and do it the easy way however part of me had lost desire watching empty stadiums and not being there to be part of it.

The inevitable collapse can be explained in many ways and there are so many reasons; bad luck, running out of steam, injuries, the bigger squads having far more quality to call upon and maybe just Brentford doing a Brentford and sh*tting the bed when the gift is handed to them in lovely wrapping paper.

I think it is a bit of all of the above however for me the stand out reason is when it comes to scoring goals we are a one trick pony. Over the years we have collected players who have zero goals per game ratio’s, our back 4 chip in with nothing, our midfield three are the same, JDS can score goals but other than that we are dry.

The wide men have been “ok” I suppose with a handful each but when teams out 2-3 players on Toney you need goals from somewhere.

I am not one of these rediculois propel who thinks we will sell all our best players and settle for mid table, I think we will well 1 or 2 and replace and go again next year but in this season autopsy you have to say BM was 10% of last season, Ghoddos could be brilliant next year but had been a passenger this year and sergi has been his usual hit and miss. I don’t want to lose any of these three but we need another two better versions on the wing so we aren’t reliant on what are pretty average players. They all contribute but when we are relying on them as the main men we are never going to score enough goals IMO.

I am much happier to fail now and not lose to Watford on the last day and go through the same old Brentford Innit posts so I feel strangely relaxed about it all. The oaky offs feel like a free punch to me becaose there are better teams with bigger squads in form going into them,

I still believe next season will be massive for us whatever happens
Yes- I don’t get all those folks saying TF will walk or get sacked and that MB will just be content with 3-4 years of rebuilding. We’ll buy, see players who were underwhelming this season blossom next, be fighting for top 6 again. As fans, until we finally win the play offs we’ll always be nervous about not going up in top two but that’s just us, nothing to do with the club. They’re likely more focused in getting the current group to win and avenge their personal memories of 2020 than to fixate on 2013, 2002 or 1997, the most recent of which was when most of them were barely in secondary school. I doubt they get Peter G in to do a reverse QPR pep talk and remind them that as a club we cannot win play offs and that they have a duty to maintain that ethos.
 

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