Football Analytics Team 'defunct' (Merged Thread) (1 Viewer)

readingbee

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I wonder if Andrew Mills might be approached and PG goes back to head up things at Smartodds?
That would be a major plus for the club, I would include Andy Scott working with him. Also let the other DOF leave and concentrate on his other club in Denmark.
 

NorthamptonBee

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That would be a major plus for the club, I would include Andy Scott working with him. Also let the other DOF leave and concentrate on his other club in Denmark.
Can I question this, weren't they the people who bought Adams, Woodman, that weird right back from Norwich who went backwards very quickly plus McCracken in the days when we first got given a bit to spend by MB? The DoF situation needs addressing but I do wonder if AS and AM are the answer.
 

HertfordBee

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Really, what else could FMJ mean?lol You've just got a rolling agreement going on here, quoted a poster called Full Metal Jacket and then working out what FMJ is a puzzle?:D It's like shopping with your grandad on here sometimes.
I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
 

jlove

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Can I question this, weren't they the people who bought Adams, Woodman, that weird right back from Norwich who went backwards very quickly plus McCracken in the days when we first got given a bit to spend by MB? The DoF situation needs addressing but I do wonder if AS and AM are the answer.
Yup... but they're real football people that we've heard of before, so everything is all right.
 

NorthamptonBee

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I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
Okay mate, I thought we were joking but there you go, goes to show that you don't realise what people are posting and whether they are smiling or frowning.
 

mhead bee

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A lot of people are assuming that a tweet from someone saying they are no longer involved in the stats team that is defunct automatically means MB is ditching his whole philosophy and going back to old school English football it seems. I don't really see anything in that one tweet that makes a huge amount of sense to me and there is no real explanation or even description of what is going on. It seems the anti Benham stats people are seeing this as a tap in to go on the "I told you so, stats don't work" peddle stool again. Personally I am not seeing anything as there is nothing to see at the moment until some solid information comes out.

I would be more then stunned to see MB turn his back on a strategy that has worked brilliantly for 5 years or more, I would be more then stunned if saw more of a "Harry Redknapp" type come in because he has phone numbers of other clubs and knows the agent (I think the old school managers despise agents as much as anyone). I expect there is a re-jiggling going on and rightly so, but I really don't think it is baby and bathwater time from what I can see but whatever it is it is going to give some great ammo to the naysayers and the likes of Adrian Durham.
 

mhead bee

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I think you've hit the nail on the head here. You can have the best stats and the best analysis but unless they're being interpreted by an experienced football man (someone who has played, coached and/or managed) then you're likely to come to the wrong conclusions. My feeling is that this is where we're going wrong with recruitment.

I suppose one difficulty might be that there are few people with good footballing pedigree who also happen to understand statistics?
Virtually everything I have seen come out of the club suggests to me the coach, the DoF, MB, the coaches and uncle Tom Cobbly an all have input into the recruitment and have the stats delivered to them in such a way they can understand it and help them make a decision on a player.

Coach says I want him for this reason. Scouts say he is a bit hit and miss in the 10 games we have seen him play. Stats confirm he is a bit hit and miss. We move on to the next target.

The scouts recommend a player and say this chap is good. The stats back up he is consistently good in his performances over a period of 2-3. Coach says I like the look of him and he is just what I need, lets do it.

That is how it works as far as I can see. Anyone who think the DoF look at stats and make a decision based on that alone and the scout and coaches don't have any input haven't listened to anything the club has said in the last 2 years or so.

MB said the other week that they made a misjudgement on how quickly a foreign player would adapt to English football based upon how well Jota did, that in itself surely shows things need to be tweaked but to think we are ditching the stats completely because of a few duff signings I think is wishful thinking by those who so want it to fail to say I told you so.
 

moribee

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Virtually everything I have seen come out of the club suggests to me the coach, the DoF, MB, the coaches and uncle Tom Cobbly an all have input into the recruitment and have the stats delivered to them in such a way they can understand it and help them make a decision on a player.

Coach says I want him for this reason. Scouts say he is a bit hit and miss in the 10 games we have seen him play. Stats confirm he is a bit hit and miss. We move on to the next target.

The scouts recommend a player and say this chap is good. The stats back up he is consistently good in his performances over a period of 2-3. Coach says I like the look of him and he is just what I need, lets do it.

That is how it works as far as I can see. Anyone who think the DoF look at stats and make a decision based on that alone and the scout and coaches don't have any input haven't listened to anything the club has said in the last 2 years or so.

MB said the other week that they made a misjudgement on how quickly a foreign player would adapt to English football based upon how well Jota did, that in itself surely shows things need to be tweaked but to think we are ditching the stats completely because of a few duff signings I think is wishful thinking by those who so want it to fail to say I told you so.
Good synopsis thankyou
 

Full Metal Jacket

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Virtually everything I have seen come out of the club suggests to me the coach, the DoF, MB, the coaches and uncle Tom Cobbly an all have input into the recruitment and have the stats delivered to them in such a way they can understand it and help them make a decision on a player.

Coach says I want him for this reason. Scouts say he is a bit hit and miss in the 10 games we have seen him play. Stats confirm he is a bit hit and miss. We move on to the next target.

The scouts recommend a player and say this chap is good. The stats back up he is consistently good in his performances over a period of 2-3. Coach says I like the look of him and he is just what I need, lets do it.

That is how it works as far as I can see. Anyone who think the DoF look at stats and make a decision based on that alone and the scout and coaches don't have any input haven't listened to anything the club has said in the last 2 years or so.

MB said the other week that they made a misjudgement on how quickly a foreign player would adapt to English football based upon how well Jota did, that in itself surely shows things need to be tweaked but to think we are ditching the stats completely because of a few duff signings I think is wishful thinking by those who so want it to fail to say I told you so.
Yes, I sense that things are indeed changing. Smith seems to have more influence now than Duijkhuizen had last summer. (Of course some of the decisions were made before MD even arrived). Perhaps I should have said that it's where we were going wrong rather than where we are going wrong. Though, since Smith's arrival we have yet to sign anyone on a permanent basis so my supposition hasn't yet been tested. Under the modus operandi that seems to be emerging (and which you describe so eloquently) I expect us to make fewer howlers of the sort that prevailed last summer.

I'm not (and never have been) opposed to using statistical analysis but I do think that interpreting it is far from simple. I think Middlesbrough might have got it about right. They are heavy users of stats in identifying potential targets but leave their ultimate interpretation to Aitor Karanka. As for "ditching the stats", I don't think anyone seriously thinks that, do they? Statistics, used intelligently and by the right people, are a useful tool - nothing more, nothing less.
 

WARFIELD BEE

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I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
Good luck mate, I am afraid that the GPG has involved a lot of bullying lately and has failed to be an open opinions site.
 

Les Beeavinu

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Good luck mate, I am afraid that the GPG has involved a lot of bullying lately and has failed to be an open opinions site.
Once again, and I ask this whenever anyone mentions it, please point me to the bullying and it will be dealt with. I find it odd that no-one ever wants to take me up on my offer.
 

Doovster

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Good luck mate, I am afraid that the GPG has involved a lot of bullying lately and has failed to be an open opinions site.
Bullying? I see lots of differences of opinion and a lot of sarcastic comments but don't subscribe to this bullying suggestion.

People's resignation speeches are part and parcel of the GPG. It always makes me laugh when people feel the need to publicly announce they're off. Can only speak for myself but the day I get bored of GPG I will be off, I won't feel the need to announce it. No one on here is that important that they need to tell all and sundry they're off.
 

kendo

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Good luck mate, I am afraid that the GPG has involved a lot of bullying lately and has failed to be an open opinions site.
Bullying...these are words we are talking about?Not someone threating to kill your hamster or other close relative etc.

I have had some exchanges on here and facebook. I have been called many things.But I tend to forget about it after about ten minutes as its about football at the end of the day.

When someone threatened to slash my daughters face at school and brought the blade in to show her every now and then , that's bullying.

Think we need to get some perspective..

See you next week Hertford😉
 

Les Beeavinu

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Ok, we should leave it there. If Warfield Bee wants to pm me with details, I'll look into it.
 

Kettering Bee

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I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
Why do people feel the need to give a leaving speech? Just go, no one cares.
 

kendo

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Nigel Brooks

Nick Hester

Hertford Bee


What leaving speeches...Brought tears
To my eyes..

Like the Edward Viii abdication speech..
 
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Banana

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Nigel Brooks

Nick Hester

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What leaving speeches...Brought tears
To my eyes..

Like the Edward Viii abdication speech..
We never got one from Nick - especially as he never left.

Don't forget Silly whateverhisnameis :)
 

ruislip bee

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Nigel Brooks

Nick Hester

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What leaving speeches...Brought tears
To my eyes..

Like the Edward Viii abdication speech..
I thought the above were the new Analytics team until I read the post!
 

kendo

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We never got one from Nick - especially as he never left.

Don't forget Silly whateverhisnameis :)

Oh I forgot him...


Oh yes my mistake...Nick is like "Eva Peron" gone but always in peoples hearts...
 

sonofabee

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I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
Don't flounce off, I did once and regretted it immediately. Take time out but don't let it get to you it's a forum, that's all.
Happy Easter all
 

mhead bee

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Good luck mate, I am afraid that the GPG has involved a lot of bullying lately and has failed to be an open opinions site.
Utter tosh.

I can only speak for myself but if I believe in my opinion I will state it, justify it as best as I can and then restate it if necessary. If people disagree I will stick to my point of view if I ca justify it.

If other people that have a different point of view find it difficult to justify their opinion or run out of evidence or any sensible conversation that is not my fault, that is more to do with the strength of their argument and the fact they can't sensibly back up an opinion.

That is not bullying, that is simply winning an argument because it is better thought out and delivered...just my opinion of course.
 
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Utter tosh.

I can only speak for myself but if I believe in my opinion I will state it, justify it as best as I can and then restate it if necessary. If people disagree I will stick to my point of view if I ca justify it.

If other people that have a different point of view find it difficult to justify their opinion or run out of evidence or any sensible conversation that is not my fault, that is more to do with the strength of their argument and the fact they can't sensibly back up an opinion.

That is not bullying, that is simply winning an argument because it is better thought out and delivered...just my opinion of course.
Whilst I have some sympathy for your argument. There is also a matter of style that is there to be interpreted. Yours for example.
 

eaglebee

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I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
I know how you feel, but don't give in, we all get fed up with some of the cr*p that's spouted on here, just give it a few weeks rest, I do it now and again as I can't be asked to trawl through some of the dross written on here, the rest from here gives you time to clear your head and come back refreshed, I sure a majority of posters on here are Brentford through and through and perhaps regret what they post at times, most of it is due to sheer frustration and the thought of their beloved club struggling, we have been in worse situation than this before, and come through it, we will again, so just take a breather and come back a new man.
 

hatfieldbee

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I won't bother to reply to that in the way that I might have been tempted to because I don't want my last post on the GPG to sound a bit sarky! Anyway, although I got sucked into taking part in this discussion, I really only came on today to say farewell - not that I guess anyone knows me well enough for me to do that, but I'm voluntarily departing the grapevine. It's not really fun any more. I genuinely enjoying sharing my thoughts but rarely do so now without threads going way off track and often ending in bad feeling. Probably I'm as guilty as anyone else which is maybe even more reason for giving it a rest now.

I really, really hope we survive this season.

Keep well all, but Hertford Bee is no more!!
I bet you've been having a crafty, sneaky peek at this thread since you wrote this!
 

sonofabee

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I know how you feel, but don't give in, we all get fed up with some of the cr*p that's spouted on here, just give it a few weeks rest, I do it now and again as I can't be asked to trawl through some of the dross written on here, the rest from here gives you time to clear your head and come back refreshed, I sure a majority of posters on here are Brentford through and through and perhaps regret what they post at times, most of it is due to sheer frustration and the thought of their beloved club struggling, we have been in worse situation than this before, and come through it, we will again, so just take a breather and come back a new man.
:imwith:
 
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I know how you feel, but don't give in, we all get fed up with some of the cr*p that's spouted on here, just give it a few weeks rest, I do it now and again as I can't be asked to trawl through some of the dross written on here, the rest from here gives you time to clear your head and come back refreshed, I sure a majority of posters on here are Brentford through and through and perhaps regret what they post at times, most of it is due to sheer frustration and the thought of their beloved club struggling, we have been in worse situation than this before, and come through it, we will again, so just take a breather and come back a new man.
:imwith:

Sometimes I go to Griffin Park to pass this up for 45 minutes from time to time....
 
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People's resignation speeches are part and parcel of the GPG. It always makes me laugh when people feel the need to publicly announce they're off. Can only speak for myself but the day I get bored of GPG I will be off, I won't feel the need to announce it. No one on here is that important that they need to tell all and sundry they're off.
Me too. I love a farewell post. I think they're known as Nigel Brooks's. They don't come along, too often, but I think that makes them more special. :cool:

:wave: HertfordBee :wave: Stay safe.
 

Full Metal Jacket

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Once again, and I ask this whenever anyone mentions it, please point me to the bullying and it will be dealt with. I find it odd that no-one ever wants to take me up on my offer.
I don't see much real bullying - more a case of some individuals being a lot more abrupt and assertive (well rude actually) on-line than they would ever dream of being face to face. I think it's a question of style as much as anything. Not to mention manners. I saw one post that replied to a not very controversial point with the opening line "Utter tosh". Now, if the first poster was proposing something utterly heinous, like selling the entire squad into slavery, I suppose such a strong reply might be justified. But it just seemed a bit tiresome to me.

We can disagree with each other without stamping on each others' necks - though obviously that is usually much more fun.
 

sonofabee

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I don't see much real bullying - more a case of some individuals being a lot more abrupt and assertive (well rude actually) on-line than they would ever dream of being face to face. I think it's a question of style as much as anything. Not to mention manners. I saw one post that replied to a not very controversial point with the opening line "Utter tosh". Now, if the first poster was proposing something utterly heinous, like selling the entire squad into slavery, I suppose such a strong reply might be justified. But it just seemed a bit tiresome to me.

We can disagree with each other without stamping on each others' necks - though obviously that is usually much more fun.
Shut up div lol
 

JCMcBee

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I don't see much real bullying - more a case of some individuals being a lot more abrupt and assertive (well rude actually) on-line than they would ever dream of being face to face. I think it's a question of style as much as anything. Not to mention manners. I saw one post that replied to a not very controversial point with the opening line "Utter tosh". Now, if the first poster was proposing something utterly heinous, like selling the entire squad into slavery, I suppose such a strong reply might be justified. But it just seemed a bit tiresome to me.

We can disagree with each other without stamping on each others' necks - though obviously that is usually much more fun.
.....I see we have shifted the goalposts on this thread.....from football analytics....to the analysis of bullying......I know very little on the former subject.....but quite a lot about the latter....cyberspace bullies are sad little individuals,with sad little lives,who do it because the 'power' they get from it makes them feel better about themselves.....laughing at them is the best way of dealing with those sort.......but back in the real world,and the only way to deal with a bully who attacks......is as you say.......stand on his head a few times....only thing those types understand...my golden rule...never negotiate,ever,with a bully........and now if someone could tell me in layman's terms what football analytic's are.....I'd be very grateful.
 

Full Metal Jacket

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.....I see we have shifted the goalposts on this thread.....from football analytics....to the analysis of bullying......I know very little on the former subject.....but quite a lot about the latter....cyberspace bullies are sad little individuals,with sad little lives,who do it because the 'power' they get from it makes them feel better about themselves.....laughing at them is the best way of dealing with those sort.......but back in the real world,and the only way to deal with a bully who attacks......is as you say.......stand on his head a few times....only thing those types understand...my golden rule...never negotiate,ever,with a bully........and now if someone could tell me in layman's terms what football analytic's are.....I'd be very grateful.
Performance statistics measure what players actually do on the pitch. Analytics are the black art of trying to make sense of that information. Usually by trying to infer what they might do in future situations.
 

JCMcBee

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Performance statistics measure what players actually do on the pitch. Analytics are the black art of trying to make sense of that information. Usually by trying to infer what they might do in future situations.
.....thanks mate.....one more thing.....actually a couple of things......who collects the data and stats,and how.....and who then does the analysis,quite an important job I would imagine.......not specifically at BFC....and does it have any similarity to analysing financial markets?
 

jlove

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It's probably worth you going to http://statsbomb.com and having a browse, there's a Definitions section... but, on the other hand, it may blow your head off!
 

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