Football League Restructure Plan....... Again

Banana

Supergrass
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
84,470
Reaction score
20,567
Location
London
From the FSF @ http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/football-league-restructure-plan-taken-to-clubs

In August, the Football League sent out a communication to all 72 of its member clubs seeking their views on radical proposals that would reshape much of the current English footballing calendar.

Clubs are being asked for submissions on the possibility of a winter break, regionalisation of the bottom two divisions and adding 12 new clubs to the Football League (and where those additional teams should come from).

Football League chief executive Shaun Harvey is also seeking feedback on potential changes to the FA Cup – maximising the number of weekends and bank holiday weekends for Premier League and Football League fixtures.

It is suggested that this would require starting the Premier League season earlier and moving FA Cup rounds into mid-week slots.​

Responses from clubs (including ours) are due in tomorrow. Doncaster has consulted with their supporters, has anyone heard anything from ours?

These are major changes to the game's traditions, who is deciding what we, the Brentford supporters, think about this?
 

Houghton Bee

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jul 2001
Messages
14,345
Reaction score
1,611
Location
Houghton Regis
Very poor from Brentford to not even set up a simple website poll or questionnaire for fans to voice their opinions. Emailing the link out to the database wouldn't have taken long and may have resulted in an upturn in website views which would also generate more income (tiny amounts maybe, but we want to channel every resource into the first team budget, we're told) if thats the way the FL websites still work.

Nevertheless - no to the winter break, we could end up having two weeks of fine weather with no games followed by two weeks of dreadful weather with dozens of postponements. It may work fine in places like Spain that don't have the same climate as us, but here it's not a good idea.

Regionalisation - Need more details. Where ARE the 12 extra teams coming from, it's a huge no to any 'B' squads from Premier League teams, 12 clubs promoted from the Conference would be acceptable. I get the argument that fans will get bored of seeing the same teams every season though.

FA Cup - leave as it is, making it a midweek thing will kill it off once and for all. The simple thing is to ditch the league cup, in fact its painfully obvious no one gives a damn about it, so why keep the charade going? Ditch the bottom divisions trophy as well, equally as pointless.
 

Stanley

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jan 2001
Messages
14,241
Reaction score
893
No to it all, it is just pandering to the PL and "bigger clubs" as usual. Especially no to regionalisation, why does anybody think this will work?
 

Les Beeavinu

Administrator
Joined
5 Aug 2002
Messages
59,878
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Sandhurst
With Cliff Crown recently appointed to the EFL board, it is important for Brentford to represent the views of football supporters and not those whose impartiality might be questioned.
 

grutter

Active member
Joined
27 Aug 2011
Messages
7,348
Reaction score
401
Largely agree with post #2. Sorry to sound cynical, but money talks...

1. The winter break will happen. Then watch those prem teams make a few more million playing in Dubai, China and the like during this 'break' period.
2. Ditto midweek FA cup games. It will go the same way the league cup has gone.
 

Les Beeavinu

Administrator
Joined
5 Aug 2002
Messages
59,878
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Sandhurst
Yes but we'll have a much better chance of winning the world cup. Won't we?
 

Les Beeavinu

Administrator
Joined
5 Aug 2002
Messages
59,878
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Sandhurst
Clubs can of course afford squads of 50 players these days if the workload is too much for the 25 players they currently have in their squad.
 

Leonardo

Mad blogger
Joined
25 Jun 2001
Messages
6,946
Reaction score
1,090
Location
Burnham
I think you left out the main reason was to keep small clubs like Brentford anywhere near the PL ..
 

Lionel Bart-At

formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
Joined
14 Apr 2013
Messages
19,688
Reaction score
2,665
Location
Cranford
When is the winter break suggested? (Don't post back with "winter", smartarse.).I sincerely hope it's not Christmas and New Year. This is an entertainment business. We are the consumer. We want football at this time.
 

ruislip bee

Well-known member
Joined
25 Apr 2009
Messages
25,496
Reaction score
4,350
When is the winter break suggested? (Don't post back with "winter", smartarse.).I sincerely hope it's not Christmas and New Year. This is an entertainment business. We are the consumer. We want football at this time.

But those expensive players want their Christmas too.
 

BIAS

Member
Joined
23 Jan 2001
Messages
918
Reaction score
1
Location
www.bias.org.uk
We were originally due to meet with Mark Devlin in October to discuss these proposals and we were gearing up to consult members and other fans to get a detailed response in.

We were then told towards the end of last week that the deadline had changed and we had to meet straight away. We met with Mark before the Sheff Wed match and went through all the proposals giving valid reasons for objecting to each of them.

We are not against change but do not see how these proposals will benefit either BFC, fans or any EFL club.

We will get a more detailed response up soon.
 
OP
Banana

Banana

Supergrass
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
84,470
Reaction score
20,567
Location
London
We were originally due to meet with Mark Devlin in October to discuss these proposals and we were gearing up to consult members and other fans to get a detailed response in.

We were then told towards the end of last week that the deadline had changed and we had to meet straight away. We met with Mark before the Sheff Wed match and went through all the proposals giving valid reasons for objecting to each of them.

We are not against change but do not see how these proposals will benefit either BFC, fans or any EFL club.

So can we assume that Mark Devlin objected to all the proposals then?
 

BIAS

Member
Joined
23 Jan 2001
Messages
918
Reaction score
1
Location
www.bias.org.uk
So can we assume that Mark Devlin objected to all the proposals then?

He didn't disagree with any of our comments but we have not seen the club's official response to the EFL.
 

bees66

Well-known member
Joined
14 Apr 2002
Messages
31,875
Reaction score
6
Location
Northolt
With Cliff Crown recently appointed to the EFL board, it is important for Brentford to represent the views of football supporters and not those whose impartiality might be questioned.

will he be wearing his arsenal shirt?
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
27,684
Reaction score
4,635
Location
Maidenhead
From the FSF @ http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/football-league-restructure-plan-taken-to-clubs

In August, the Football League sent out a communication to all 72 of its member clubs seeking their views on radical proposals that would reshape much of the current English footballing calendar.

Clubs are being asked for submissions on the possibility of a winter break, regionalisation of the bottom two divisions and adding 12 new clubs to the Football League (and where those additional teams should come from).

Football League chief executive Shaun Harvey is also seeking feedback on potential changes to the FA Cup – maximising the number of weekends and bank holiday weekends for Premier League and Football League fixtures.

It is suggested that this would require starting the Premier League season earlier and moving FA Cup rounds into mid-week slots.​

Responses from clubs (including ours) are due in tomorrow. Doncaster has consulted with their supporters, has anyone heard anything from ours?

These are major changes to the game's traditions, who is deciding what we, the Brentford supporters, think about this?

Maybe the Fulham marketing team are compiling our response.
 

mhead bee

Well-known member
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
27,684
Reaction score
4,635
Location
Maidenhead
No to it all, it is just pandering to the PL and "bigger clubs" as usual. Especially no to regionalisation, why does anybody think this will work?

it saves a huge amount of money on traveling costs for clubs that have very low fan base and income. It also allows fans to travel to more games.

This one i agree with.

Winter break, maybe we could lose one game over xmas, keep BD and NYD game but lose the one 2 days later. I am already stir crazy with the though of no game this weekend.
 
OP
Banana

Banana

Supergrass
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
84,470
Reaction score
20,567
Location
London
He didn't disagree with any of our comments but we have not seen the club's official response to the EFL.

Er...maybe you could ask him for a copy :)
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
it saves a huge amount of money on traveling costs for clubs that have very low fan base and income. It also allows fans to travel to more games.

This one i agree with.

Winter break, maybe we could lose one game over xmas, keep BD and NYD game but lose the one 2 days later. I am already stir crazy with the though of no game this weekend.

No it won't, it dilutes the importance of local matches. What happens if all the strong teams are in one region, the end of season play off becomes a farce.

What about the team that just scrapes into the North when they are not even Midlands, spending every week travelling across the country. Regionalisation is crap.
 

aberdeenbee

Active member
Joined
6 Dec 2013
Messages
2,501
Reaction score
31
When is the winter break suggested? (Don't post back with "winter", smartarse.).I sincerely hope it's not Christmas and New Year. This is an entertainment business. We are the consumer. We want football at this time.

Yes! Love the games around Christmas, especially boxing day. Would be a shame if they were to stop.

Would the break mean more midweek games or an extension of the season into June?
 
OP
Banana

Banana

Supergrass
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
84,470
Reaction score
20,567
Location
London
Yes! Love the games around Christmas, especially boxing day. Would be a shame if they were to stop.

Would the break mean more midweek games or an extension of the season into June?

It's complete nonsense. Make more Saturday games by moving FA Cup R1&2 to midweek; then take a winter break therefore ridding the calendar of some Saturdays. Just stop ****ing with our game please.
 

hanworthbee

Well-known member
Joined
13 Jun 2005
Messages
29,435
Reaction score
1,595
Location
Ashford
Just leave it as it is, im not interested in the national team...personally I'd rather scrap these constant international breaks ...PL clubs are only in it for themselves....
 

opinions5u

Active member
Joined
10 Oct 2010
Messages
4,262
Reaction score
2
Winter break takes place in mild weather.

Snow and ice hit after it ends.

Possible!
 

Lionel Bart-At

formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
Joined
14 Apr 2013
Messages
19,688
Reaction score
2,665
Location
Cranford
Just leave it as it is, im not interested in the national team...personally I'd rather scrap these constant international breaks ...PL clubs are only in it for themselves....
I
I'm interested in the national team. But making the PL stronger and richer is not in the interest of the national team. Simply encourages yet more expensive foreign stars and strengthens the clubs in the clubs v. country issues.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
Just leave it as it is, im not interested in the national team...personally I'd rather scrap these constant international breaks ...PL clubs are only in it for themselves....

It's got sod all to do with the national team, it's all about money. Winter Breaks will be used for tours, mid week slots will be used by a bigger Champions League. No doubt the Premier League clubs will blackmail the Football League ones by threatening to withdraw solidarity payments. Just like they did with EPPP.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
Shaun Harvey said at the Supporters summit at Wembley in May that if we don't fix the problem then the Premier League will come up with their own solution.

He couldn't actually tell us what the problem was when asked though.
 

Invipai

Active member
Joined
29 Jul 2011
Messages
8,336
Reaction score
2,027
Location
Ealing, London
We were originally due to meet with Mark Devlin in October to discuss these proposals and we were gearing up to consult members and other fans to get a detailed response in.

We were then told towards the end of last week that the deadline had changed and we had to meet straight away. We met with Mark before the Sheff Wed match and went through all the proposals giving valid reasons for objecting to each of them.

We are not against change but do not see how these proposals will benefit either BFC, fans or any EFL club.

We will get a more detailed response up soon.

That about sums it up! I've said in the ELF Trophy thread, the FA are just acting but aren't shrewd or know what they're doing. So they're causing a lot of damage that when they walk away from, who will have the capability to clean it up?

There are some ideas that could be introduced, I am not against a winter break at all. But it has to be in January (not over Christmas), and just have two weekends off at this point. Play the 3rd Round of the FA Cup one weekend, then have two weeks off for all divisions, with any replays coming the Tues before the 'resuming' Saturday if you will.

All changes to the EFL are a straight no. Regionalisation? Sorry what is that supposed to solve? Possibly to try and reduce some bad press they got for putting Plymouth Carlisle on a Tuesday. I'm just not sure what this is supposed to be solving...

And they need to fix the FA Cup, not find ways to make it interfere less... At least having an Int break straight after the 3rd Round would mean clubs wouldn't have an excuse for resting players for it.
 

wanderer paul

https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Joined
28 Oct 2002
Messages
52,327
Reaction score
4,555
Location
Brentford
Is this also gearing up for the 2020 World Cup in Qatar?
 

hanworthbee

Well-known member
Joined
13 Jun 2005
Messages
29,435
Reaction score
1,595
Location
Ashford
Shaun Harvey said at the Supporters summit at Wembley in May that if we don't fix the problem then the Premier League will come up with their own solution.

He couldn't actually tell us what the problem was when asked though.
let them, it's not far off a closed shop as it with the parachute payments .
 

Stanley

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jan 2001
Messages
14,241
Reaction score
893
No it won't, it dilutes the importance of local matches. What happens if all the strong teams are in one region, the end of season play off becomes a farce.

What about the team that just scrapes into the North when they are not even Midlands, spending every week travelling across the country. Regionalisation is crap.

Agree, if it is such a good idea why is the conference premier a national division? Regionalisation means lower status and doesn't fit withe shape and size of the country.
 

Mulitinovic

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2003
Messages
505
Reaction score
258
Location
Mostly on planes
Agree, if it is such a good idea why is the conference premier a national division? Regionalisation means lower status and doesn't fit withe shape and size of the country.

... Regionalisation? Sorry what is that supposed to solve? Possibly to try and reduce some bad press they got for putting Plymouth Carlisle on a Tuesday. I'm just not sure what this is supposed to be solving.....

Completely agree. I won't pretent to have witnessed that many games the last time the bottom two divisions were regionalised, but regionalisation would lead to a massive dilution in quality in my opinion, in turn affecting attendances and the enjoyment of actually watching football. Take our 2013/14 promotion year and we would have been “regionalised” with Torquay and Bristol Rovers who dropped out of the league playing abysmally (not to mention Wycombe and AFC Wimbledon who finished just above them, plus six lesser teams from god knows where) rather than seeing decent games against the likes of Sheffield United, Preston and maybe even Wolves. League One games against Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday wouldn't have happened at all. Teams evolve and improve through meritocracy and regionalisation leaves far too big a gap in quality between the top and the bottom in my opinion - equipping the better ones poorly for the division above.
 

reg partridge

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2006
Messages
91
Reaction score
0
Location
ramsey,cambs
Another problem with regionalisation is where does the line go. Every season in the non-league there are arguments and appeals by teams in the "wrong" division purely because there are so many teams from certain areas.
In the last few years teams like Bishop Stortford have played in the Northern League, likewise Kings Lynn and Lowestoft. The list of these sort of splits is endless. Again who cares about the fans?
 

LingfieldBee

Active member
Joined
15 May 2007
Messages
4,842
Reaction score
2,025
Location
Somerset
Fed up with English football pampering the mega rich clubs in the Prem for business sense. Makes me so angry.
 

Isleworth_Bee

Well-known member
Joined
18 Jan 2005
Messages
25,994
Reaction score
5,966
Location
Basingstoke
Its all a load of ****

If there was a poll i bet 90-99% of fans would disagree with most of the points. Its all about the fat cats getting bigger. Winter break?!?!?!? They would all be off playing in money spinning games abroad. How does an international break benefit us?

FA are spineless to the real problem that is......................................... The money in football is not shared out evenly. Nothing more nothing less.
 

Bobanall

Member
Joined
5 Nov 2013
Messages
150
Reaction score
89
Adding 12 new football clubs!!!
Does that mean that relegation out of this extended EFL will cease, or will we get even lower level teams displacing our traditional football league teams should they be unfortunate enough to be condemned to the scrapheap as a result of suffering one poor season? It's a NO from me!
 

opinions5u

Active member
Joined
10 Oct 2010
Messages
4,262
Reaction score
2
The fact the proposal doesn't even propose WHERE the new clubs come from confirms it as a smoke and mirrors operation to me.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
They have also only recently started talking to The National League, whereas these proposals were drawn up without them even knowing.
 

RT

The Mobile man
Joined
7 Apr 2000
Messages
4,292
Reaction score
113
Location
Gloucester
F1 do there summer break well, 2 weeks where everyone is off, factory's shut and if you try to work you get punished. Problem is the weather isn't a guarantee. In Germany etc you know it's going to be bloody cold in Jan. Here it could be Feb. It could be December. It could be Jan, no way of accurately stating.

Easy fix. Scrap League cup and Football Trophy and if needed make a "League Cup" for the 72 clubs (not Prem). Keep FA Cup as is but give the winner a Champions League place now we are keeping 4 places. That way everyone will take it seriously, with a caveat of if a non Prem teams wins they go Europe League instead
 

clactonbee

Member
Joined
15 Sep 2013
Messages
709
Reaction score
141
Location
Clacton on sea
Nevertheless - no to the winter break, we could end up having two weeks of fine weather with no games followed by two weeks of dreadful weather with dozens of postponements. It may work fine in places like Spain that don't have the same climate as us, but here it's not a good idea.

Exactly right. Then you would get teams playing twice a week in April. Leave it as it is.
 

beebopalula

Well-known member
Joined
14 Jul 2006
Messages
12,224
Reaction score
908
Location
Surbiton
I'd really love the EFL to break away with the Championship being the top division and other leagues upgraded in status. I'd love it if all EFL supporters would boycott watching Prem League games or paying subscriptions to watch greed league games.Keep the FA cup as our property and basically ditch the Prem League. Hey ho.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
I'd really love the EFL to break away with the Championship being the top division and other leagues upgraded in status. I'd love it if all EFL supporters would boycott watching Prem League games or paying subscriptions to watch greed league games.Keep the FA cup as our property and basically ditch the Prem League. Hey ho.

They broke away in 1992
 

Kingston Bee

Active member
Joined
22 Oct 2008
Messages
6,848
Reaction score
1,567
Location
Kingston-Upon-Thames
I'd really love the EFL to break away with the Championship being the top division and other leagues upgraded in status. I'd love it if all EFL supporters would boycott watching Prem League games or paying subscriptions to watch greed league games.Keep the FA cup as our property and basically ditch the Prem League. Hey ho.

That would be great. What I don't get with these proposals is who is asking for change? If it is not the clubs or supporters then for whose benefit is this for....well I know the answer to that one. Its a big no change from me.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
That would be great. What I don't get with these proposals is who is asking for change? If it is not the clubs or supporters then for whose benefit is this for....well I know the answer to that one. Its a big no change from me.

The clubs don't want it, the fans don't want it but the current TV deal and solidarity payments expire at the end of 2018/19.

The Premier League clubs will blackmail the EFL clubs and say you ain't getting any of the new deal unless you agree to this.
 

kevalutonbee

Well-known member
Joined
11 Aug 2004
Messages
17,487
Reaction score
8
Location
In the wrong
Never understood why post the formation of the Premier League the teams in the top tier were allowed in the Football League Cup. The clue is in the name isn't it?

As to where the extra teams would be coming from, would it be too cynical to suggest that when they said that the EFL trophy catastrophe was a trial what they actually meant was they were trialing the concept of Academy/U23/U21 playing against league 1 or 2 teams on a regular basis?
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
As to where the extra teams would be coming from, would it be too cynical to suggest that when they said that the EFL trophy catastrophe was a trial what they actually meant was they were trialing the concept of Academy/U23/U21 playing against league 1 or 2 teams on a regular basis?

No it's not cynical, it's spot on. However I don't think they expected the reaction that they got.
 

grutter

Active member
Joined
27 Aug 2011
Messages
7,348
Reaction score
401
I suspect the winter break proposal has nothing to do with the weather (given most pitches in the higher leagues have undersoil heating & good drainage these days) and everything to do with perceived 'fixture congestion.' This is an age when Prem & Championship teams stockpile players and are actually better prepared to cope with 50+ games a season than they've every been.

Simple answer - get rid of all the prelims for the Champions League, turn the European Competitions back into knockout only, no drawn out group stages and ditch the league cup. Now, they might do the latter, but certainly not the former. I can't think why...

I just wish everyone would cancel their Sky & BT subscriptions for sports channels or boycott a few games.
 

hobbsy

Optimist
Joined
23 Apr 2005
Messages
19,694
Reaction score
3,948
Location
KT3 New Malden
The winter break is about going on tours to China.
 

Houghton Bee

Well-known member
Joined
10 Jul 2001
Messages
14,345
Reaction score
1,611
Location
Houghton Regis
What these ponces should be discussing is;

Sky/BT choosing and announcing which league games they will show 13 weeks in advance (bring the fixture schedule announcement day forward to facilitate this) so fans can start travel arrangements when cheap train tickets become available.

Re-invigorating the FA Cup. The Champions League idea above is a good one, greater financial incentives would also help. The money saved from shelving the League Cup could go towards this. Making a midweek competition will destroy it once and for all, how has such an idea even made the agenda?! Taking the semi-finals away from Wembley might also be helpful, although I understand the FA need to recoup building the bloody thing somehow....

Should there be a league-based ticket pricing cap? Some of the prices being charged this season in our division are disgusting.

Ditching the ridiculous EPP (or whatever its called) rules so smaller clubs have a reason to train youngsters, via academies etc. The FA etc make lots of noise about building up the national team yet surely we need as many of these academies as possible working to a high standard to give as many kids across the country as possible a chance to shine? Ultimately the kids will end up with the Prem clubs anyway but at least give the smaller clubs a fair amount of money to reinvest in their youth setups and keep the cycle going. When clubs like Brentford are shutting their junior squads down there is a real problem to be addressed.

Instead of further fuelling this countries bizarre obsession with marketing/branding/rebranding/rerebranding etc and no doubt paying obscene amounts of money on it, why not look at the actual reasons fans are disenchanted with football?
 
Top Bottom