Gareth Southgate: Messiah or Very Lucky Boy?

BFC1997

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With all due respect I don't get what you're on about?

Southgate wasn't a player of the same stature of any of those players you've listed, you really need to list Southgate in a pair with someone like Gareth Barry ?

No he wasn't on the same level technically, but he's as much a leader as the rest. And my point is that it's been his life mission to succeed with England, that's what he cares about most, he's a proper England man.

Neville, Gerrard etc are all club over country, which I'm not knocking, but I think that makes GS more suited to the role than any of those.
 

The Pipe

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Will hold my hands up as was not impressed with his appointment. However the more I hear about him, how clear his ideas for the future are, how he brings in experts from other disciplines and how he believes that he is always learning my opinion has been completely changed

There are some aspects of his selections and tactics that are open for discussion but he never hides from explaining his decisions and accepting when a mistake has been made.

Perhaps as he wasn’t a superstar filled with his own importance as many others have been ( often now summarisers for various TV companies) he appreciates far more the opportunity that has been given to him.

Irrespective of tomorrow’s results roll on the Euros as our young team ( joint youngest at the WC I believe) will have gained considerable experience and should be a TEAM to be feared as opposed to teams with star players.
 
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Lionel Bart-At

Lionel Bart-At

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Waistcoat Wednesday tomorrow! I'm donning mine for school.
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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Will hold my hands up as was not impressed with his appointment. However the more I hear about him, how clear his ideas for the future are, how he brings in experts from other disciplines and how he believes that he is always learning my opinion has been completely changed

There are some aspects of his selections and tactics that are open for discussion but he never hides from explaining his decisions and accepting when a mistake has been made.

Perhaps as he wasn’t a superstar filled with his own importance as many others have been ( often now summarisers for various TV companies) he appreciates far more the opportunity that has been given to him.

Irrespective of tomorrow’s results roll on the Euros as our young team ( joint youngest at the WC I believe) will have gained considerable experience and should be a TEAM to be feared as opposed to teams with star players.

Think this probably goes for most of us.

The only criticisms I've had so far are.
I'd have had Loftus instead of Alli by now.
I'd never bring on Dier as well as Henderson.
I'd not try to play defensive when we've got a narrow lead as we tend to hand the impetus back to the opposition and it's never our forté sitting back (many teams are guilty of this and pay the price).

We usually look better as tournaments go on, so if we keep our heads, play with confidence, and avoid silly yellow/red cards (that have been the bain of England tournaments) we have a cracking chance. It's only (potentially) two matches!
 

Mudbone

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Think this probably goes for most of us.

The only criticisms I've had so far are.
I'd have had Loftus instead of Alli by now.
I'd never bring on Dier as well as Henderson.
I'd not try to play defensive when we've got a narrow lead as we tend to hand the impetus back to the opposition and it's never our forté sitting back (many teams are guilty of this and pay the price).

We usually look better as tournaments go on, so if we keep our heads, play with confidence, and avoid silly yellow/red cards (that have been the bain of England tournaments) we have a cracking chance. It's only (potentially) two matches!

You may need to sit down for this mate, but SSN has suggested Southgate MIGHT

consider playing Dier & Henderson together - but unlikely.

They also mentioned Henderson has a slight injury but is likely to play.
 

james2b

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Good manager but timing of subs could win semis or even a World Cup 😒
 

Cham

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Did very well.. given the hype and egos that are usually associated with the England team... Vardy had a groin injury so couldn't come on earlier... apart from Rahford did we have any better goal threats?? Also gave us a massive strength by improving our set pieces..
 

Newport Pagnell Bee

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Did very well.. given the hype and egos that are usually associated with the England team... Vardy had a groin injury so couldn't come on earlier... apart from Rahford did we have any better goal threats?? Also gave us a massive strength by improving our set pieces..

I'll probably get slaughtered but how weak did Vardy and Rashford look? We had a good 1st eleven but very little strength in depth imho.
 

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It’s worth pointing out that 9 of our 12 goals were from set pieces. So credit due to allan russell our set piece coach who played a big role. He is a scot
 

rhbee

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It’s worth pointing out that 9 of our 12 goals were from set pieces. So credit due to allan russell our set piece coach who played a big role. He is a scot

Credit to Gareth as well for going "let's work on set pieces as they could be important"
 

BFC1997

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It’s worth pointing out that 9 of our 12 goals were from set pieces. So credit due to allan russell our set piece coach who played a big role. He is a scot

Southgate himself has done a lot of studying of sports like Basketball and NFL as it’s all about finding tight spaces and sending/receiving the ball quickly. His strategy has been excellent, as well as the execution for AR and the players.
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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Alli and Lingard in key positions.

Alli did almost nothing in any game bar a bit of defensive work and one header.
Lingard had one good game but was mediocre in the rest.

Kane did well in most games but had a poor one against Croatia.

We were decent at set pieces but relying on that is too risky. We never addressed our lack of creativity that was obvious throughout the tournament. Sterling was the only real runner stretching them, and deserves credit, even if he fluffed things at the end.

It's interesting people mention the yank sports and Southgate learning from them......because large parts of many games it looked like the NFL. With every man (bar Sterling or sometimes Trippier) that didn't have the ball motionless. Moving it around between them but causing no danger.

People talked about the unity and mental strength......yet in numerous games our heads went down and we started clinging on for large periods.

A lot of things were better in this tournament and we were better to watch.....but we had the easiest route we'll ever have and there's not a great deal to suggest we'd have gone very far if we had a tough group (or route after that). Plenty of positives for the future (especially Maguire/Trippier/Pickford) and I think people like Henderson/Kane did well (despite a poorer final game from Kane). So going back to the start of my post. Alli and Lingard was where we lost it really and they were too anonymous for too much of the time. Loftus Cheek deserves a run instead of Alli from now on (he did from the second game onwards really).
 

beebopalula

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Alli and Lingard in key positions.

Alli did almost nothing in any game bar a bit of defensive work and one header.
Lingard had one good game but was mediocre in the rest.

Kane did well in most games but had a poor one against Croatia.

We were decent at set pieces but relying on that is too risky. We never addressed our lack of creativity that was obvious throughout the tournament. Sterling was the only real runner stretching them, and deserves credit, even if he fluffed things at the end.

It's interesting people mention the yank sports and Southgate learning from them......because large parts of many games it looked like the NFL. With every man (bar Sterling or sometimes Trippier) that didn't have the ball motionless. Moving it around between them but causing no danger.

People talked about the unity and mental strength......yet in numerous games our heads went down and we started clinging on for large periods.

A lot of things were better in this tournament and we were better to watch.....but we had the easiest route we'll ever have and there's not a great deal to suggest we'd have gone very far if we had a tough group (or route after that). Plenty of positives for the future (especially Maguire/Trippier/Pickford) and I think people like Henderson/Kane did well (despite a poorer final game from Kane). So going back to the start of my post. Alli and Lingard was where we lost it really and they were too anonymous for too much of the time. Loftus Cheek deserves a run instead of Alli from now on (he did from the second game onwards really).

I'd agree with your focus on where we need to improve. Alli hasn't had a great tournament but l suspect he hasn't been fully fit. Lingard disappears for periods. Loftus Cheek looks to have significant potential but I'm not sure where the step up in quality is coming from. Nevertheless we have a platform to build on.
I was surprised that we didn't alter tactics yesterday to stop the incessant attacking along our flanks. It was obvious by half time that something needed to be done but it wasn't. It looked to me that Southgate had wanted to hit them on the break which was a perfectly good tactic and that could have worked against France but we needed to match them up in wide positions and we didn't. If you are going to adopt a counter attack position you must have a solid base.
However the great thing for me is that l now support our national team again. Everyone of them gave it all for the shirt.
 

Bigbee

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We scraped through with wins over pubs teams .We need midfield creativity .
 

TW1Bee

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One of Kane's real strengths IMO is winning penalties as shown in this W Cup. He's very good at leaning in to defenders and their natural reaction is to hold on to him and he does that very well . Did anyone else think he did a bit of rolling around last night when tackled a la South American style which lots on here were berating earlier in the tournament ?.
 

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Hoping that young Foden of Man City continues to develop as his passing a la Gazza is a missing ingredient imo.
 

Stanley

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Alli and Lingard in key positions.

Alli did almost nothing in any game bar a bit of defensive work and one header.
Lingard had one good game but was mediocre in the rest.

Kane did well in most games but had a poor one against Croatia.

We were decent at set pieces but relying on that is too risky. We never addressed our lack of creativity that was obvious throughout the tournament. Sterling was the only real runner stretching them, and deserves credit, even if he fluffed things at the end.

It's interesting people mention the yank sports and Southgate learning from them......because large parts of many games it looked like the NFL. With every man (bar Sterling or sometimes Trippier) that didn't have the ball motionless. Moving it around between them but causing no danger.

People talked about the unity and mental strength......yet in numerous games our heads went down and we started clinging on for large periods.

A lot of things were better in this tournament and we were better to watch.....but we had the easiest route we'll ever have and there's not a great deal to suggest we'd have gone very far if we had a tough group (or route after that). Plenty of positives for the future (especially Maguire/Trippier/Pickford) and I think people like Henderson/Kane did well (despite a poorer final game from Kane). So going back to the start of my post. Alli and Lingard was where we lost it really and they were too anonymous for too much of the time. Loftus Cheek deserves a run instead of Alli from now on (he did from the second game onwards really).

Agree with all of that. At this level it is about making the big decisions over team selection and I thought Southgate got sucked into past England managers' trend of sticking to the same team and not resting any of his "main" players if needed as for several of those players it was clear it was one game too many. Loftus Cheek, for example, might have added another dimension. Can't help thinking a player like Wilshire in the squad might have given us some much needed added flair and just something different.
 

Bristolian Bee

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Can't help thinking a player like Wilshire in the squad might have given us some much needed added flair and just something different.

Or Jonjo Shelvey :shrug:
 

nick logan

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Well done Gareth and the boys and thanks for a tremendous month.

This is the start not the end.

Football came home as England are important to people again.

:sorted:
 

jlove

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I was surprised that we didn't alter tactics yesterday to stop the incessant attacking along our flanks.
I got the impression that Alli and Lingard were asked to play wider to pin the full-backs but it's not their style of play and they were forever drifting inside. Croatia's wide men swapped sides at half-time and there was certainly a deliberate tactic to swing the ball from side to side to keep overloading and crossing the ball in.
 

malagakid

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I think we will develop to play 4-3-3 but he’s got it right for now imo.
 

Fairless

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I think it was a combination of being lucky and actually having a plan and executing it well. I just hope Southgate will develop as a manager in the coming months, otherwise this team will stagnate big time.
 

ruislip bee

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I think it was a combination of being lucky and actually having a plan and executing it well. I just hope Southgate will develop as a manager in the coming months, otherwise this team will stagnate big time.

Yep our old CEO used to say a bad plan executed well was better than a good plan executed badly. But step one was definitely having a plan!
 

Les Beeavinu

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Good to see this impressive man taking n the failing academy system in this country. Good for him.
 

BlueJayBee

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Wasn't one of the stated reasons, for forming the Premiership, to improve the chances of the national side, by producing better players?
 

IDontBeeLieveIt

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How about have a rule that any English player under the age of 22, who does not get 900 minutes of first team football during the past two years, should immediately be allowed to leave for £0 to a lower division club.
That would perk things up, and get a few more of the promising Premiership youngsters into a club who'll actually play them, and the best ones they'll have to pay very good wages to in order to keep them.
 

HertfordBee

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Might also be worth realising that with these England games no longer be shown on domestic TV, interest in the national team is likely to wane further.
 

nick logan

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Might also be worth realising that with these England games no longer be shown on domestic TV, interest in the national team is likely to wane further.

eh ? we just got to a semi final and the interest is the highest for years and years
 

wanderer paul

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eh ? we just got to a semi final and the interest is the highest for years and years

Stick it on terrestrial tv then. England (well the FA) keep selling their souls to Sky. Back into the doldrums then.
 

HertfordBee

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eh ? we just got to a semi final and the interest is the highest for years and years

Not for all the millions who would have watched tomorrow but now won't. Surely it should have been about building on the World Cup and promoting it, not shoving the game into a back cupboard?
 
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