Les Beeavinu
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As I understood it, he wasn't yet ready to play in a high pressing side.
Halil Dervişoğlu
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And Forss was?
sonofabee
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Halil wanted out
AB
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Do Bosmans still exist as between UK and EU teams and did they ever exist as between UK and Turkish teams?
Yes, Forss harasses defenders and chases the keeper, whatever his other limitations. Halil loped about and didn’t defend from the front
Les Beeavinu
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Nutshell.
Hullbee
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OP
Mr Cynical
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Forss is very good at pressing
GuyBee
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Not sure I'd agree with that. Forss runs around like a puppy, in the latter games I saw of Halil he was snapping at the heels of opp
All opinions. Not sure I have ever seen Halil close to adequate on what we expect in terms of pressing from our front men
Milton Keynes Bee
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I send all my ironing to himForss is very good at pressing
sonofabee
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He didn’t seem to be keen on our pressing game ?
That’d be my guess
AB
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To be fair to him when we bought him way back in Summer 19 we weren’t a pressing team. That was the window we bought Pontus, Jeanvier and Ethan at the start of tightening up defensively but it was still very experimental- we didn’t switch from 3CBs until mid Autumn. Halil was on a pre-contract for January and stayed at Sparta as we were just integrating Bryan as another new attacker. Ollie was being converted to central striker and Sergi was our starting RW. Norgaard and Jensen were just settling in.
So when he signed our shape was not settled. Our ethos had been that of a very fluid attacking team with not a lot of emphasis on the forwards pressing or tracking back. Halil had a little of the nasty little man devilry of the recently departed Maupay. But he was one for the next turn of the conveyor belt who we weren’t rushing into the first team and wouldn’t have had the time to focus on developing immediately.
Then in January with Sergi out long term, Forss having been on loan but back injured and Said not scoring anything like as freely as in his first season but Ollie and Bryan going well we were a little light on forward options. We were more settled defensively but still very much a free attacking team. So bringing him in rather than loaning him back to Sparta made sense.
Maybe that sudden shift was disconcerting for him having been settled back into enjoying the new challenge of the Eredivisie. Then coming here but being still in wait for an opening from a by early February fully firing BMW, it might have looked like a frustrating time for someone highly rated in Holland and Turkey to be fighting for bench time in a team not quite established among the promotion front runners.
Then within a matter of weeks Covid, lockdown and suspension of the season. He finds himself in a new country, a new team he’s on the fringes of and who’ve all had at least a preseason and 30+ games together to bond and understand each other and the club. By the time of the resumption he also has Sergi back from injury. Also Fosu has joined as another competitor for an attacking berth.
Then after odds and ends on the pitch combined with the isolation of Covid that we know hit other young foreign players like Mbeumo hard, we lose in the play offs. We bring in more new players and we do some hard thinking about how to cope with and overcome both the disappointment of missing out on promotion and the way we’d need to set up without Said and Ollie. Toney coming in was obviously going to be the spearhead. And for the first time we focused on pressing through the team and having the attackers be as ferocious defending as the CBs.
It’s not at all the team or role he’d been sold a year before and it’s also not one he’s had the chance to make a mark on or a country he could settle into with any normality.
If we add to that his dad’s supposed influence in showing how he could be a big star in Turkey as well as him knowing he was up to being a top tier player in Holland without having to relearn his football, it makes sense he went out on loan.
I think he looked this summer like he was knuckling down to try to be a player who’d fit us now- being in the PL made that more worthwhile. But he’d also made it to the Turkish full team and played a bit in the Euros.
So he’s just never had the time to integrate, we’ve changed a lot from the club he agreed to join and he clearly has high profile opportunities that will be very rewarding without him having to unlearn everything and become a different player. Quite reasonable and understandable- there are still many on the gpg who think Moyes has ruined Benrahma by making him reinvent his all round game. Halil isn’t as far along but the same thinking would be understandable.
Holysmit
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Pressley doesnt make the Wimbledon team every week and Halil doesnt want to be here.
HadleighBee
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Has Halil said he doesn’t want to be here?
HaylingBee74
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Halil starts for Turkey v Gibraltar, kick off is at 5.0 and it is live on Sky Sports football Ch403
Can Halil match or do better than Marcus earlier?
Can Halil match or do better than Marcus earlier?
AB
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Gib rather softly/unfairly VAR-ed to 10 men.
HaylingBee74
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I think a shocking VAR decision to red.card a Gibraltar player.
finsbury_bee
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Not even a foul. Shocking.
ladbroke
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What a powerful strike amongst a crowd to score Turkeys 2nd.
HaylingBee74
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Halil gets his first a nice strike to the top bin
ladbroke
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Scores his 2nd minutes later.
HaylingBee74
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Halil looking good a nice 2 man breakaway goal
AB
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Very neat change of foot and a pretty tight gap left by defenders to thread it through. Plenty of Brentford credit being given by the commentators.
Easy strike for his second. Forss-like foxing in the box. Obviously Gib aren’t up to much and working hard a man down, but it’d be a shame if we didn’t manage to get him back.
sonofabee
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Really?
Kingston Bee
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Can’t judge Halil in a World Cup qualifier for his country but you can judge him at Brentford when he’s never started a league game for us. Makes a lot of sense.
ruislip bee
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You sure? He's playing against Sunday morning opposition.
HadleighBee
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Typical of some on here, Halil has never been given a chance. He looked good pre-season and I can’t believe the DOF’s made a mistake. Bring him back ASAP and let’s see him given a chance.
I don't think it's a mistake. He wouldn't have got the game time he wants nor needs to develop, same reasons people want Forss loaned really. He'll be better for it next season
HaylingBee74
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Halil subbed on 69 mins denying him the hat-trick but hopefully suggesting him playing in Tuesday‘s big game vs Montenegro away
ladbroke
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Some players were virtually out of our team when they went on loan and came back a different player and done well.
Yennaris being one. Dallas I believe too.
Marcondes, granted he didn't get a lot of game time but he popped up always when needed.
Halil is doing well on loan. Playing regularly. Has more experience than Forss I'd argue.
Maybe it's best for Halil in 2nd half of season and give Forss the loan spell with regular match time ready for next season.
Yennaris being one. Dallas I believe too.
Marcondes, granted he didn't get a lot of game time but he popped up always when needed.
Halil is doing well on loan. Playing regularly. Has more experience than Forss I'd argue.
Maybe it's best for Halil in 2nd half of season and give Forss the loan spell with regular match time ready for next season.
Kingston Bee
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It's all about the opposition, gives you some perspective.
AB
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Though I think the way he plays means he can do stuff and benefit himself and us by shorter appearances whereas I think Forss’s style and potential role demands starts and 90min appearances with a team built to feed it. The bigger issue is for me the relative interest the two have in making it at Brentford. That Halil has more demand from more appealing clubs than mid-Championship is telling.
fencer/bee
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we had a massive improvement in Toumani Diagouraga when he came back from Portsmouth.
AB
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Where does that put Bamford who spent an hour failing to score against Andorra or Watkins who just got the one against San Marino?
Yes but how can you judge him against that opposition when he’s never been given a proper chance?
HaylingBee74
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Whoscored have Halil rated as Galatasaray’s 3rd best player this season averaging 6.91 (narrowly behind the 2nd)
Halil Dervisoglu Characteristics
+ Strengths
Dribbling…….Very StrongLong shots……Very Strong
Through balls…..Strong
Headed attempts…..Strong
Key passes…..Strong
Defensive contribution…..Strong
- Weaknesses
Offside awareness……Very WeakHalil Dervisoglu's Style of Play
Likes to dribbleIndirect set-piece threat
Likes to tackle
Commits fouls often
I haven’t always been a fan of his since he joined us, but I have watched his career closely since we first signed him.
If he wasn’t already our player, his statistics this season while with Galatasaray and for Turkey are good enough for consideration of signing him. He certainly looks to be maturing, and although it is only Gibraltar tonight unlike many of his colleagues he has retained possession well, taken his chances well including a 3rd goal that was ruled offside (not him being offside). If he starts on Tuesday against Montenegro seeing him in a pressure game will be interesting.
If nothing else his value is definitely going in one direction which can only be good for us
Ok and what about the Turkish league and Europa League?
Kingston Bee
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AB
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Both good finishes.
brentfordfc4ever
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A mystery.
A great little player who seems to be full of tricks and skills. However, something is wrong somewhere and I'm not sure what. It might be attitude, ability, not wanting to be here, Thomas thinking he's not good enough etc etc
I certainly trust the clubs decision, but it's a strange one for sure. He's ahead of Forrs in my view.
A great little player who seems to be full of tricks and skills. However, something is wrong somewhere and I'm not sure what. It might be attitude, ability, not wanting to be here, Thomas thinking he's not good enough etc etc
I certainly trust the clubs decision, but it's a strange one for sure. He's ahead of Forrs in my view.
OP
Mr Cynical
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Seems to me it's much better for him to be getting regular first team minutes at both domestic and international level than coming back here to be fourth or fifth choice and only getting minutes off the bench if we're struggling..
Kingston Bee
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HadleighBee
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Hilarious!
Simon W
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Just like the Emiliano Marcondes thread .. there’s a few on here who want him to fail so they can say “I told you so” 