Heysel Stadium Disaster

Sheerwater Bee

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29 years ago yesterday 39 people went to a game in Belgium and never came back. Thought I'd mentioned it as I couldn't see any reference to it in the media yesterday..... Unsurprisingly....
 
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nick logan

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29 years ago yesterday 39 people went to a game in Belgium and never came back. Thought I'd mentioned it as I couldn't see any reference to it in the media yesterday..... Unsurprisingly....

The way Liverpool / media / government have the front to have so many Hillsborough silences ( not saying we shouldn't ) but continue to sweep Heysel under the carpet is an utter disgrace.
 

TW3Bee

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The way Liverpool / media / government have the front to have so many Hillsborough silences ( not saying we shouldn't ) but continue to sweep Heysel under the carpet is an utter disgrace.

It wasn't Liverpool fans according to them.

:rolleyes:
 

Simon T

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The way Liverpool / media / government have the front to have so many Hillsborough silences ( not saying we shouldn't ) but continue to sweep Heysel under the carpet is an utter disgrace.

They're having a minutes silence today, not out of respect but because they don't like talking about that tragedy.
 
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Sheerwater Bee

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Good friend of mine is an Evertonian and he still hasn't forgiven the lot from the other side of Stanley Park. Everton could well have gone on to achieve great things with the squad they had at the time, if it wasn't for the 5 year ban.
 

Heston Bee

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29 years, crikey. I can still clearly remember getting home late and being upset I'd missed the first bit of the game only to turn on the telly andbe confronted by some stoney face pundits going on about whether the game should be played or not.

I wondered if such a thing happened now, and not trying to tempt fate, whether UEFA would have the strength or will to impose the same ban. A Champions League without any of Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal or Liverpool for 5 years?
 

spirebee

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The way Liverpool / media / government have the front to have so many Hillsborough silences ( not saying we shouldn't ) but continue to sweep Heysel under the carpet is an utter disgrace.

All the Liverpool fans did was charge a section of fans that were provoking them, following random attacks by the Juve fans before the game(?)
It was the mass stampede, lack of police and poorly built stadium that killed them(?)
The theiving that went on in those days was shameful though.....
 

alfie

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All the Liverpool fans did was charge a section of fans that were provoking them, following random attacks by the Juve fans before the game(?)
It was the mass stampede, lack of police and poorly built stadium that killed them(?)
The theiving that went on in those days was shameful though.....
But if you read what he says it does not mention who was to blame he just says it is an utter disgrace that this disaster is not given the respect it should have from the home front ie Liverpool, Government press ,etc etc like the Hillsborough or Bradford disasters.
 

sonofabee

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The way Liverpool / media / government have the front to have so many Hillsborough silences ( not saying we shouldn't ) but continue to sweep Heysel under the carpet is an utter disgrace.

Scousers are saints - salt of the earth football fanatics who positively impact on everyone they meet.
Forget "You'll never walk alone" Cher sang a song about them once
 

nick logan

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But if you read what he says it does not mention who was to blame he just says it is an utter disgrace that this disaster is not given the respect it should have from the home front ie Liverpool, Government press ,etc etc like the Hillsborough or Bradford disasters.

Thank you alfie, was just about to post that myself
 

wibs

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Scousers are saints - salt of the earth football fanatics who positively impact on everyone they meet.
Forget "You'll never walk alone" Cher sang a song about them once

"I've Got Juve"?
 

Ealing Bee

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Whatever else, Heysel was not "murder". Of course, many of those involved in the Hooliganism etc may have been guilty of Manslaughter, but that definition would probably include the people responsible for maintaining the (wholly inadequate) stadium and the police/security personnel too (if at a lower level of culpability).

As for the level of commemoration compared with Hillsborough, I think that may be explained as follows.

The true causes of Heysel were never in any doubt, and both UEFA (5 year ban) and the authorities in Belgium (demolished and rebuilt stadium) acted quickly to rectify the situation.

Whereas with Hillsborough, such was the level of cover-up, that the relatives have been forced to carry on campaigning years since in order to establish the truth.

So not only are there likely to be fewer, less prominent acts of commemoration for Heysel - which happened in another country by the way - but it is also inevitable that there will be much less Media coverage of Heysel commemorations than for their Hillsborough equivalents.

As for all those who rush to blame all Liverpool fans for the (undeniable) excesses of their hooligan element, I would remind them that in the 1980's, there was hardly a club in the country that didn't have its own hooligan element, including Brentford.

So that in the circumstances, it could have been just about any other club which saw a section of their fans riot, had they qualified for that Final, on that day, in that stadium.

Personally, I think using Heysel to try to claim some sort of moral superiority over another club - in this case Liverpool FC - is tasteless and disrespectful to those poor souls who died in such awful circumstances.

RIP the Thirty Nine.
 

opinions5u

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Whatever else, Heysel was not "murder". Of course, many of those involved in the Hooliganism etc may have been guilty of Manslaughter, but that definition would probably include the people responsible for maintaining the (wholly inadequate) stadium and the police/security personnel too (if at a lower level of culpability).

As for the level of commemoration compared with Hillsborough, I think that may be explained as follows.

The true causes of Heysel were never in any doubt, and both UEFA (5 year ban) and the authorities in Belgium (demolished and rebuilt stadium) acted quickly to rectify the situation.

Whereas with Hillsborough, such was the level of cover-up, that the relatives have been forced to carry on campaigning years since in order to establish the truth.

So not only are there likely to be fewer, less prominent acts of commemoration for Heysel - which happened in another country by the way - but it is also inevitable that there will be much less Media coverage of Heysel commemorations than for their Hillsborough equivalents.

As for all those who rush to blame all Liverpool fans for the (undeniable) excesses of their hooligan element, I would remind them that in the 1980's, there was hardly a club in the country that didn't have its own hooligan element, including Brentford.

So that in the circumstances, it could have been just about any other club which saw a section of their fans riot, had they qualified for that Final, on that day, in that stadium.

Personally, I think using Heysel to try to claim some sort of moral superiority over another club - in this case Liverpool FC - is tasteless and disrespectful to those poor souls who died in such awful circumstances.

RIP the Thirty Nine.

Thank you for finding the words I was struggling to find.
 

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Banana

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Whatever else, Heysel was not "murder". Of course, many of those involved in the Hooliganism etc may have been guilty of Manslaughter,.

There were (I seem to remember) about 15 people convicted of Manslaughter - so no "may" about it. Many more were no doubt guilty of other, lesser crimes but (at the time) only manslaughter was an extradictable offence in our bi-lateral arrangements with Belguim (long since surpassed by EU treaties). Nor were there any statues for being tried in the UK for crimes committed overseas.
 

sonofabee

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There were (I seem to remember) about 15 people convicted of Manslaughter - so no "may" about it. Many more were no doubt guilty of other, lesser crimes but (at the time) only manslaughter was an extradictable offence in our bi-lateral arrangements with Belguim (long since surpassed by EU treaties). Nor were there any statues for being tried in the UK for crimes committed overseas.

:sorted:
 

sonofabee

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Thank you for finding the words I was struggling to find.

You need the Samaritans, not some pontificating wordsmith !
Get counselling now, I'll pay as I'd hate to read that you did something stupid after reading and believing a supposed experts post!
 

Brentford St George

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Good friend of mine is an Evertonian and he still hasn't forgiven the lot from the other side of Stanley Park. Everton could well have gone on to achieve great things with the squad they had at the time, if it wasn't for the 5 year ban.

A lot of Everton fans detest them for depriving them of the chance to progress but the press will never state that. Have come across the hatred a few times including a blue I used to play Saturdays with and in Majorca a few years back in a bar when it got a bit salty . Whilst the media like to dub all Liverpudlians one big "family"if you say that to a number of evertonians they will snap .
 

Thorne In The Side

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Sick to death the way the country suck up to scousers and make out that they are this great friendly community.....political correctness gone mad.
Plain fact is Liverpool as a city is a sh*t hole and the majority of them are thieving scallys that will do almost anything to prevent having to do a days work.
Self pity city is the term I would use. The only people that are working twenty four seven in Liverpool are the florists that have to stay open every minute of the day to allow the great Liverpool public to mourn another self pity story.
 

sonofabee

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Sick to death the way the country suck up to scousers and make out that they are this great friendly community.....political correctness gone mad.
Plain fact is Liverpool as a city is a sh*t hole and the majority of them are thieving scallys that will do almost anything to prevent having to do a days work.
Self pity city is the term I would use. The only people that are working twenty four seven in Liverpool are the florists that have to stay open every minute of the day to allow the great Liverpool public to mourn another self pity story.

Couldn't agree more but stand by for pompous pious types telling us we're bigots for stereotyping those lovable, cheeky scallies!
 

Streetboy

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Some real crap being posted here. Suggest some read Phil Scraton's Hillsborough The Truth from cover to cover and revise their opinions on 'self pity city'. Particularly surprised at the Thorne in the Side post as I recall one of their editors posted a very moving piece on the Hillsborough anniversary about their visit to Anfield and leaving a tribute at the memorial.
I also recall on the 20th anniversary of Heysel there was plenty of coverage on it, and there probably will be on the 30th next year too. As someone else pointed out on this thread, the reason it gets so much more coverage is the scandalous amount of time it took for the bereaved families to get any kind of justice, not to mention all the cover ups along the way, whereas with Heysel the punishments were pretty much meted out straight away.
I also believe UEFA have far more blood on their hands than Liverpool fans, not only for the death trap of a venue selected, but for the sale of neutral tickets for a section of the stadium aksing for trouble. The surge by Liverpool fans was no worse than those seen in stadiums every week at the time, but in such decrepit surroundings, sadly it proved fatal. The fact is, the worst behaviour on the night came from Juventus fans, who were rioting at the other end long before the fatal surge. The game should also never has been played, but that ****er Platini wanted his moment of glory, and his celebrations were crass to say the least.
Throw in Liverpool fans' somewhat understandable dislike of Italian fans due to their experiences in Rome the year before, and you have a lethal mix. If Roma hadn't cheated Dundee United out of a place in the 1984 final, history could have taken a very different course.
 
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Streetboy

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Just want to add, I'm in no way condoning what Liverpool fans DID do at Heysel when mentioning the other factors that led to that poisonous night. They might not have intended death when they charged, but the deaths wouldn't have happened if they didn't. It would also have helped the club's reputation if they had apologised rather than sought to deflect the blame in the immediate aftermath. However, that shouldn't be allowed to deflect from the courage, bravery and dignity shown in the face of adversity and corruption by the families of the 96. They deserve every anniversary and tribute they get. Sadly, tragedies involving multiple deaths were commonplace in an era of deregulation and profit over safety, but miscarriages of justice and police cover ups in incidents involving multiple deaths thankfully were, hence Hillsborough getting more attention than Heysel and Bradford, and in wider society, Kings Cross, Zeebrugge etc etc.
 

Voice from the Braemar

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Some real crap being posted here. Suggest some read Phil Scraton's Hillsborough The Truth from cover to cover and revise their opinions on 'self pity city'. Particularly surprised at the Thorne in the Side post as I recall one of their editors posted a very moving piece on the Hillsborough anniversary about their visit to Anfield and leaving a tribute at the memorial.
I also recall on the 20th anniversary of Heysel there was plenty of coverage on it, and there probably will be on the 30th next year too. As someone else pointed out on this thread, the reason it gets so much more coverage is the scandalous amount of time it took for the bereaved families to get any kind of justice, not to mention all the cover ups along the way, whereas with Heysel the punishments were pretty much meted out straight away.
I also believe UEFA have far more blood on their hands than Liverpool fans, not only for the death trap of a venue selected, but for the sale of neutral tickets for a section of the stadium aksing for trouble. The surge by Liverpool fans was no worse than those seen in stadiums every week at the time, but in such decrepit surroundings, sadly it proved fatal. The fact is, the worst behaviour on the night came from Juventus fans, who were rioting at the other end long before the fatal surge. The game should also never has been played, but that ****er Platini wanted his moment of glory, and his celebrations were crass to say the least.
Throw in Liverpool fans' somewhat understandable dislike of Italian fans due to their experiences in Rome the year before, and you have a lethal mix. If Roma hadn't cheated Dundee United out of a place in the 1984 final, history could have taken a very different course.

yep good post.....liverpool fans took a right hammering and stabbing in rome the season before and playing another italian club was always going to end in trouble....im well read on this and know someone who was actually there and basically the scousers turned up for a ruck knowing something was bound to happen and werent disappointed....unfortunately the events in the ground werent helped by complete police and stadium mismanagement, no proper segregation in that end and a section of juventus ultras starting on some scarfer liverpool fans and the mostly innocent paying the price for it......a combination of lots of things but basically uefas mainly to blame for allowing a game of this magnitude to go ahead in a crumbling run down stadium with no proper policing or stewarding.....any english club there that night would have probably done the same thing,,,,those were the times and thankfully times have changed for the better
 

sonofabee

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yep good post.....liverpool fans took a right hammering and stabbing in rome the season before and playing another italian club was always going to end in trouble....im well read on this and know someone who was actually there and basically the scousers turned up for a ruck knowing something was bound to happen and werent disappointed....unfortunately the events in the ground werent helped by complete police and stadium mismanagement, no proper segregation in that end and a section of juventus ultras starting on some scarfer liverpool fans and the mostly innocent paying the price for it......a combination of lots of things but basically uefas mainly to blame for allowing a game of this magnitude to go ahead in a crumbling run down stadium with no proper policing or stewarding.....any english club there that night would have probably done the same thing,,,,those were the times and thankfully times have changed for the better

That's pretty much it but I was there as well and would add the atmosphere was tense from the minute we got off the plane, the scousers were running round the airport and then the station in packs looting and generally upsetting people.

Imagine a ground like ours hosting a UEFA Cup final, it wasn't set up to cope and the staff didn't. There was widespread, organised looting of shops and kiosks, saw lots of touts getting beaten up (not complaining) and again 100's of fans trying to get in without tickets by any means.
In the ground pretty much chaos with Juve ultras with scarfs pulled over their faces allowed to run around the track goading the Liverpool fans waving weapons at them who were more than keen to get involved.

Thankfully I couldn't see the wall that collapsed from where I was sat and genuinely didn't know anyone had died until after the game had started. The game shouldn't have been played and it was a non event but next day going back to the airport there was plenty of the same happening and there seemed to no remorse from most of the Liverpool fans I saw,more anger at losing and hence why more thieving and drunken threatening behaviour in the station.

Not all their fault but they refused to accept any responsibility for some shocking behaviour.
 
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Streetboy

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Just want to add, I'm in no way condoning what Liverpool fans DID do at Heysel when mentioning the other factors that led to that poisonous night. They might not have intended death when they charged, but the deaths wouldn't have happened if they didn't. It would also have helped the club's reputation if they had apologised rather than sought to deflect the blame in the immediate aftermath. However, that shouldn't be allowed to deflect from the courage, bravery and dignity shown in the face of adversity and corruption by the families of the 96. They deserve every anniversary and tribute they get. Sadly, tragedies involving multiple deaths were commonplace in an era of deregulation and profit over safety, but miscarriages of justice and police cover ups in incidents involving multiple deaths thankfully were, hence Hillsborough getting more attention than Heysel and Bradford, and in wider society, Kings Cross, Zeebrugge etc etc.

* 'thankfully were NOT', the last part of the last sentence should have read *
 

Ealing Bee

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You need the Samaritans, not some pontificating wordsmith !
Get counselling now, I'll pay as I'd hate to read that you did something stupid after reading and believing a supposed experts post!
I thought you were meant to be "ignoring" me/my posts.

Or do you imagine that Opinions5U can't make his own mind up about the merits (or otherwise) of a post without your help?

No, you really can't help yourself, can you?

I've said it before, but you really should get professional help to address your issues - eg anger and vindictiveness, hyper-sensitivity to challenge or (perceived) slight, and an apparent complex about educational attainment.

P.S. Can one of Sonofabee's pals do the necessary and forward/quote?
 
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Ealing Bee

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... the majority of [Liverpudlians] are thieving scallys that will do almost anything to prevent having to do a days work.
Do you honestly believe that?

For if you do - or even anything close - then you have a very bigoted view of hundreds of thousands of people you've cannot ever have met.
 

SmiffyBee

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Sick to death the way the country suck up to scousers and make out that they are this great friendly community.....political correctness gone mad.
Plain fact is Liverpool as a city is a sh*t hole and the majority of them are thieving scallys that will do almost anything to prevent having to do a days work.
Self pity city is the term I would use. The only people that are working twenty four seven in Liverpool are the florists that have to stay open every minute of the day to allow the great Liverpool public to mourn another self pity story.

Think this is a bit of a generalisation.
They are people just like Londoners, Brummies, Geordies, etc
I think it's easy to believe media generalisations about groups if folk based on one or two incidents.
 
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