Indian Bee
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oh he's back
India v England Test Series 2021
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Les Beeavinu
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It's only Buttler isn't it? Who has been replaced by a far better keeper.Agree on that point - but doesn't help when England don't pick their strongest available team
Indian Bee
Active member
Only thing that can now top the meltdown is if Broad or Anderson says they can’t wait for India to come to Hendingley.
Indian Bee
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Moeen Ali? Also in these conditions Mark Wood?
Resting players for the second test. Anderson and Archer. I heard Archer said he could have played in the second test.
Interesting. Thanks.
Indian Bee, silly question, but if India were playing India on that pitch/with that ball what do you think par scores are...i.e.how long ‘should’ the game have lasted? Genuine question.
Not sure you can question the bowling line up....one of the big problems England had was Archer at 8.
Oh and the Umpires
Indian Bee
Active member
I expected England to get 220 and India around 250 first innings up. Both were 74-2 and 99-2 respectively so shocking batting by both teams. It’s also about the overs being bowled - some of the Indian wickets today was a joke - play for time. But the test wouldn’t have lasted more than 3 days as I noted before the test match as it was a d/n test.
Indian Bee
Active member
I expected England to get 220 and India around 250 first innings up. Both were 74-2 and 99-2 respectively so shocking batting by both teams. It’s also about the overs being bowled - some of the Indian wickets today was a joke - play for time. But the test wouldn’t have lasted more than 3 days as I noted before the test match as it was a d/n test.
Sorry misread your question. Hard to tell. It’s like asking England batsmen playing against Anderson and Woakes at Lords.
Indian Bee
Active member
I would question the inclusion of Broad. There was a reason India only went with a 2 man pace attack. England selected a bowling team for a d/n game in England not in India.Not sure you can question the bowling line up....one of the big problems England had was Archer at 8.
Oh and the Umpires
The Pipe
Active member
I don’t think there is one poster on here that doesn’t think the English batting was abysmal and that India were the better team across the board.
However the concern from most is that having a pitch where the ball is turning square in day one is unacceptable. If the overhead conditions effect how a ball behaves there is not a lot that can be done about it, however to have prepared a pitch like this is just ridiculous, and I would have said the same if the result was different.
I would add that the other concern is the standard of the umpiring in the game. Ultimately it may be that all the decisions and referrals were correct however the way the 3rd umpire seemingly viewed English and Indian referrals in a different manner just leads to a feeling of concern and doubt.
Without doubt India have a fantastic all round team however their captain sets a behavioural standard that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
However the concern from most is that having a pitch where the ball is turning square in day one is unacceptable. If the overhead conditions effect how a ball behaves there is not a lot that can be done about it, however to have prepared a pitch like this is just ridiculous, and I would have said the same if the result was different.
I would add that the other concern is the standard of the umpiring in the game. Ultimately it may be that all the decisions and referrals were correct however the way the 3rd umpire seemingly viewed English and Indian referrals in a different manner just leads to a feeling of concern and doubt.
Without doubt India have a fantastic all round team however their captain sets a behavioural standard that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Didnt the only previous D/N game in India have all the wickets fall to pace?
My comment was probably more meant by the fact India were skittled for not very many so to say the bowling line up wasn’t right is barking up the wrong tree.
Indian Bee
Active member
With regards to pitches. It’s a fine balance. Does anyone want to see pitches like Trent Bridge in 2014 or Melbourne in 2017 where one could have played a 7/8 day test match without a result? What has surprised me and many Indian supporters that there is some surprised that India have turning pitches from day 1. I didn’t hear one complaint when England beat India in Mumbai with that pitch in 2016.
On the umpiring. I thought they were great in the first test, in the second test the third umpire made a couple of mistakes (I even commented on this thread that Sharma got lucky with his stumping last test) but I read that the mistakes in the last test cost England a whopping 7 runs. This test match, I agree and noted using one angle when the soft signal was given out on Stokes catch was wrong. The reaction of the England players afterwards was shocking but let’s no one talk about that. The one big change I want to get away with and have always wanted is get rid of umpires call. If the bowl is hitting the stumps it is out.
I lost respect for some posters sadly reading comments from them in the previous two test matches when they have usually been fair. Whether the lockdown is having an effect not sure but I was looking forward to this series as much as anyone and whilst exciting not grabbed my attention as much as the Australia/ India tests and there are reasons for that more the lack of quality in the batting on show coupled with some excellent spin bowling from India.
Losing by 300 runs and 10 wickets is not the fault of the pitch or umpires.
Jam Jar
Active member
Got to say it was a gripping watch. Barely got any work done and a shame there is no cricket on tomorrow.
England just don't have a good batting line up. Massively reliant on Root and really should be questions about Ed Smith and the stupid rotation policy.
England just don't have a good batting line up. Massively reliant on Root and really should be questions about Ed Smith and the stupid rotation policy.
I think every comment I’ve seen on here acknowledges this and says that India have been better. But it is still missing the point that the pitches and the umpiring have not been good enough. In the long run nobody benefits from the shambles of the last 2 days. This has the feeling of one of those series that very few will remember with any fondness. Compare that to your great win over Australia a few weeks ago. Or England in India in 2012. Or England in South Africa in 2016. (too easy to give examples of Ashes tours).
Indian Bee
Active member
Yep. Only Root has a batting test average over 40 for a England. Take him out of the squad coupled with the walking wicket against Ashwin that is Stokes at the moment and the young players in the side and the absurd decision to bring back Bairstow for test matches there is a huge problem for England playing in India,
Take aside the first innings in the first test - England have had only one player scoring above 50 in 5 innings whilst India have had 8. There lies a big problem for England and undeniable stat why England are 2-1 down.
This for me hits the nail on the head. 1 batsman averages over 40. Pope is supposed to be the next best thing but hasn’t really delivered and shouldn’t be hidden at 6. Stokes needs to decide if he is an all rounder and if so back at 6/7. Crawley looks promising but he is the only one out of the top 3 you would have any confidence in - Burns and Sibley make the same mistakes over and over. If Root fails, 9 times out of 10 the batting line up fails and we rely on the tail wagging - the likes of Woakes & Curran (and Ali a few years back) have bailed us out time and again in England, with some help from Broad and Wood from time to time. The only top order batsman I have seen since Strauss retired who has given me any hope was Hameed but that didn’t last long at all!!
Indian Bee
Active member
But India scored over 600 runs in the second test. I am convinced if India had batted first in this test then it wouldn’t have been over in less than 2 days and I would have had something to look forward to tomorrow morning.
On the umpiring. I agree the third umpire should have used more time and more angles when making the decision on the Stokes ‘catch’ and Sharma stumping but where was the ‘shocking’ decision yesterday that cost England?
Yes agree - I have always maintained I want an even contest between both two sides and that’s make great viewing. I enjoyed the last series when India toured England more than this and whilst England won 4-1 it was never a 4-1 series.
Just to play devils advocate.... how many runs did the Stokes “catch“ cost England? 10/11? And then the Sharma stumping (can’t remember what he was on - can you?) those runs make a huge difference in a low scoring game, no?
And losing by 10 wickets.... England were shot by the time India came out to bat. Bit like conceding a goal in added time when your keeper comes up for a corner - the score line doesn’t always reflect the game.
Again, and so you don’t get annoyed, I am not saying India didn’t deserve to win.
cheshirebee
the one without a space
Also Adelaide 2017-18 Ashes. I was there, as was 237 Bee, Bee Damned and Tidy. Drink was taken.
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Indian Bee
Active member
Yes 11 runs for Gill. As for the stumping if you are asking about last test he was out next over anyway. If you are asking about this test then he was clearly not out. It is more frustrating for us Indian fans that the 3rd umpire didn’t review more angles as he clearly got back in his crease and wouldn’t have to deal with the English uproar lol.
This has not been mentioned before but for me the defining factor in this test match was that first over by Patel in England second innings. All the momentum build by England in the first session today was lost in the space of 3 balls. England were favourites in my eyes and as I mentioned the objective of the Indian team is to get them out for 170-200.
cheshirebee
the one without a space
Think most of the frustration on here in regards to the pitch is not that England lost but that we’ve been deprived of a hoped for another 2-3 days cricket to ease the lockdown boredom.
Would happily take a defeat in 4-5 days over a win in 5 sessions (not that England ever had that option).
No doubt poor England batting also a major factor but, come on, 17 wickets in 2 sessions and Root 5-8 doesn’t happen on anything other than a poor pitch.
Would happily take a defeat in 4-5 days over a win in 5 sessions (not that England ever had that option).
No doubt poor England batting also a major factor but, come on, 17 wickets in 2 sessions and Root 5-8 doesn’t happen on anything other than a poor pitch.
Indian Bee
Active member
Missed listening to the Sky team. Fair balanced post match discussion
Indian Bee
Active member
Just listened to this all. What an insightful and fascinating listen with an unbiased view.
Interesting that they all agreed that the on-field umpiring has been very good in India this series and far better than the umpiring in England last summer - wait weren’t there all English umpires
obviously they must be completely watching another series than folk on GPG lol
I said previously on this thread that I do agree with home advantage pitches but come on mate... (fact check! Haha)
28/30 wickets fell to spin in a 2 day test match...
India opened with spin and only used spin in the England second innings...
Joe Root got 5/8! JOE ROOT!
previous pink ball tests the vast majority of wickets were taken by pace bowling
there was only 138 overs in the test match, meaning a wicket fell to spin every 5 overs.
Sorry mate. You are fair and objective as am I.. but the above would indicate a far from fair pitch.
If Middlesex for example prepared a green pitch which caused a 2 day county game where 28/30 wickets fell to pace... they’d be under investigation.
Bristolian Bee
...now a Brighton Bee
'This is not how Test cricket should be'
A Test should not finish in two days, says Jonathan Agnew after India beat England in the shortest match since 1935.
www.bbc.co.uk
Indian Bee
Active member
ha ha just read it. My first reaction was cry more when Agnew in commentary said in the first day there was nothing wrong with the pitch.'This is not how Test cricket should be'
A Test should not finish in two days, says Jonathan Agnew after India beat England in the shortest match since 1935.
Indian Bee
Active member
As Nasser said it was not a 112 and 81 all out pitch. As the Indian management team have said, India batted appalling in the first innings. They were looking for a score of 250 plus.I said previously on this thread that I do agree with home advantage pitches but come on mate... (fact check! Haha)
28/30 wickets fell to spin in a 2 day test match...
India opened with spin and only used spin in the England second innings...
Joe Root got 5/8! JOE ROOT!
previous pink ball tests the vast majority of wickets were taken by pace bowling
there was only 138 overs in the test match, meaning a wicket fell to spin every 5 overs.
Sorry mate. You are fair and objective as am I.. but the above would indicate a far from fair pitch.
If Middlesex for example prepared a green pitch which caused a 2 day county game where 28/30 wickets fell to pace... they’d be under investigation.
Something Nasser also said which I completely agree upon. The myth that Indian batsmen are great players of spin is not true. With the exception of Rohit, Virat, Ashwin and lesser agree Pant they are not the masters like Dravid, Sachin, Ganguly of spin.
What would the pitch of been like on Day 4 or 5? Would we have seen 30-40 all out?
I know England didnt do themselves any favours with some poor shot selection (as did India), but you shouldnt be having a Day 4 pitch on Day 1.
Indian Bee
Active member
Full Scorecard of England vs Ireland Only Test 2019 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com
Complete Scorecard of England vs Ireland Only Test 2019, Ireland tour of England only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Find the complete scorecard of England vs Ireland Only Test Online
www.espncricinfo.com
Refer you to above. Think we all agreed at the time that was an awful pitch. It happens.
I would add I find it ever so surprising that so many on here find it shocking that pitches in India spin from day 1. I repeat where was this criticism when England beat India in a Mumbai? That pitch was similar to the last two.
For what’s it worth I was looking forward to some cricket today. I feel short changed not because of the pitch but poor batting in challenging pitches.
I dont know why you keep referring to the Ireland test match, there was 633 runs in that match and 381 in the test just gone.Full Scorecard of England vs Ireland Only Test 2019 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com
Complete Scorecard of England vs Ireland Only Test 2019, Ireland tour of England only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Find the complete scorecard of England vs Ireland Only Test Online
Refer you to above. Think we all agreed at the time that was an awful pitch. It happens.
I would add I find it ever so surprising that so many on here find it shocking that pitches in India spin from day 1. I repeat where was this criticism when England beat India in a Mumbai? That pitch was similar to the last two.
For what’s it worth I was looking forward to some cricket today. I feel short changed not because of the pitch but poor batting in challenging pitches.
Everyone expects the pitch to turn in India, thats the challenge. But if you're repairing footholes in Day 1 - what does that say about the state of the pitch?
Indian Bee
Active member
Because the Ireland test ended within 2 days. I guess because it was at Lords you have conveniently forgot that
Ah gotcha. Its Ireland though. (no offense Scratchy)Because the Ireland test ended within 2 days. I guess because it was at Lords you have conveniently forgot that
It was 3 days. And nearly 40 overs moreBecause the Ireland test ended within 2 days. I guess because it was at Lords you have conveniently forgot that
Anyway, roll on the 4th test and hopefully a better game all round.
Holysmit
Well-known member
I don't think you are listening to what we are saying at all and you are just defending India at all costs and this is why you are being called bias.
If you look back through the posts I said after about 4 balls that this test would be over in 3 days. I was wrong it was over in 2 days. A pitch should not be cutting up on day one and need to be fixed. Joe Root should not be taking 5 for 8. India have some of the best batsmen in the world and there speciality is playing spin. Yet on day 2 off a test Joe Root looked like Murali.
I have a lot of Indian fans and they are as pissed off as me about the pitch and several have said they are embarrassed.
The umpires I have some sympathy for as the decisions were right but they were let down by the DRS system. They need to get rid of umpires call as the problem here was that all of the marginal calls when England batsman were batting were given out. Whilst when India batted they were given not out. This naturally will raise questions about bias whether it is sub conscious or deliberate. I believe it was sub conscious plus I think there is a lot of pressure from having that many fans in the stadium. Therefore the vitriol aimed at them was unfair.
However, the other problem was the third umpire who was a disgrace in the 2nd and 3rd test. To not fully check every option available to you for one team but check it for the other is cheating. Particularly when you come from one of the nations playing in the game. It is no wonder that when a marginal decision goes against you, you get wound up as you feel oh here we go again.
To simply dismiss this as oh it was only 11 runs or it was only 30 runs misses the point. Its like saying oh Maradona hand of god was only one goal so why are people upset?
People aren't upset at the result. India were the better team in the test and deserved to win. What we are annoyed about is that we got cheated out of a few days of cricket due to a bad pitch and the rules weren't applied equally to both teams which isn't right.
Holysmit
Well-known member
3 daysBecause the Ireland test ended within 2 days. I guess because it was at Lords you have conveniently forgot that
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
Holysmit
Well-known member
Well my name is Steve Smith but I'm not the ginger aussie batsman.May I also have your autograph?
Mark H
Active member
Well said Holysmit!
Mark H
Active member
Bloody facts ! Always getting in the way of a good argument.
That was the first ever test match between the two sides, one being the bottom ranked team. That might have something to do with it only lasting 3 days.
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
No, he only has Australian fans.
Holysmit
Well-known member
It's got me several free drinks and freebies in Australia so he's not all bad!No, he only has Australian fans.
TW3Bee
It was down in the Town of Northampton
Indian Bee
Active member
Did you listen to Athers and Hussain above?
Btw I think Joe Root was disgrace and should be banned for the next test match with England slow over rate of 11.3 overs on day 1. As captain he deprived all those Indian supporters of 6/7 overs and many are on daily wage. Really want ICC to take a stand on this.
Holysmit
Well-known member
There's no point talking to you about this. You are so biased it's untrue. To try and bring up over rates and wages in India as a response to my posts is just a desperate attempt to not try and accept any responsibility from India or the BCCI.
Lionel Bart-At
formerly known as 'heavywoollenbee'
I played with an Aussie lad (Addlestone and Hamm Moor CC) who blagged his way into the Rose Bowl (staff parking, everything) under the pretext he was Shane Warne's brother whilst he was at Hampshire.
Holysmit
Well-known member
Legend. The Aussies sure have fun when they play club cricket. Is it John Hastings who holds the off field record for scoring at Wimbledon CC!
I did IB, Athers in particular was very balanced and said the umpiring has been excellent in this series,but for some reason the application of DRS has been sketchy.Nobody complained about the result,but clearly it’s just plain stupid to claim the pitch was suitable for Test cricket.I would be more concerned for the fans spending their hard earned cash for days 3/4/5. Maybe they get a refund,but I doubt it.
Indian Bee
Active member
ha that was said in tongue in cheek. In fairness to you you have been one of the reasonable and sensible contributors to this thread.
We need to agree to disagree it. Look back at all my posts I have said the 3rd umpire should have used more time and if he did then the same outcome would have resulted. Stokes didn’t take a clean catch and Sharma was not stumped. I also said it would have stop is Indian fans hearing all whinging.
Do you agree with Athers and Hussain about the appalling on-field umpiring in England last summer and how the on-field umpiring in this series has been very good,