Ivan Toney - Signs to June 2025 (5 Viewers)

North Northants Bee

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Agreed, which makes me think that the playoffs would be a great achievement this season. Maupay took two seasons to get going and Watkins took a while to adjust to being a regular goalscorer at this level. The drop-off from Watkins to Toney in Season 1 should take us back a decent wodge of xG, especially if we have to bed in a replacement for Said too. Next year should be more promising in terms of having a more cohesive, fit and experienced squad for challenging for automatic places in our division.
I don't think I would agree, we paid less than £2mio each for Maupay & Watkins, Maupay was coming from a foreign country and didn't speak the language & Watkins was a lot younger and last year was his first year as a striker. I don't think Brentford would spend the money we have on IT to be happy with a goal return of 10-15 for the season. I also think IT would be aiming higher than that as well. I agree that IT needs to get match fit and learn playing in our team but I think the expectation should be higher.
 

Invipai

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I would be happy if IT performs this year at about the level OW did when he first joined. More goals probably than the ten Ollie scored, given he is already an established CF, but likely to take a while to adjust to our style of play and the championship. Expecting him to be a ready-made Ollie replacement is utterly unreasonable.
Honestly I don't think it is unreasonable...Toney's underlying stats indicate that he's the real deal and many agree this is a match made in heaven. Neal had to adjust to English football, while Ollie joined as a wide forward. Toney played one division below and is hitting his prime in terms of age, he's played the CF position his whole life so with the players we have in the team I think he probably will hit the ground running. He showed enough signs, especially in terms of positioning, against Wycombe that I believe he could be very dangerous.
 

bees1984

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He's gonna be a beast!

Not only was he not match fit against Wycombe but he had barely played with the team AND the team he played was missing the spine of last year at least.....Raya, Jansson, Norgaard, Da Silva, Mbeumo, Dalsgaard and Rico Henry was out of position. Despite all that he created chances, worked hard and showed lots of promise.

Up the Bees
 
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Mr Cynical

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Saw enough of him getting into the right positions in the box v Wycombe to show me he's got every chance of getting a load of goals for us. Was unlucky with a couple of chances but is obviously short of fitness/sharpness given he hasn't played since March.. I think if we can keep creating the chances then he, Forss and Dervisoglu will happily put them away. Expect more goals from the likes of Canos, Jensen, Marcondes and hopefully the defence can chip in with a few more as well. Anyway, if we can keep the same solid defensive mentality then we don't need to score 5 every game to be right up there..
 

condorman

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Saw enough of him getting into the right positions in the box v Wycombe to show me he's got every chance of getting a load of goals for us. Was unlucky with a couple of chances but is obviously short of fitness/sharpness given he hasn't played since March.. I think if we can keep creating the chances then he, Forss and Dervisoglu will happily put them away. Expect more goals from the likes of Canos, Jensen, Marcondes and hopefully the defence can chip in with a few more as well. Anyway, if we can keep the same solid defensive mentality then we don't need to score 5 every game to be right up there..
Your point about solid defence is really valid and Toney offers defensive assistance too at set pieces. He’s clearly not quite fit but doesn’t have to adopt a new country or position so will probably sharpen fairly quickly.
 

AB

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Honestly I don't think it is unreasonable...Toney's underlying stats indicate that he's the real deal and many agree this is a match made in heaven. Neal had to adjust to English football, while Ollie joined as a wide forward. Toney played one division below and is hitting his prime in terms of age, he's played the CF position his whole life so with the players we have in the team I think he probably will hit the ground running. He showed enough signs, especially in terms of positioning, against Wycombe that I believe he could be very dangerous.
Thinking more on this I think the nearest comparator for Toney among Bees strikers in their first season in the Championship with us might be Andre Gray. He was about 9 months younger when he joined. Had an excellent scoring record in the Conference as a striker. Scored 16 league goals for us. Thinking back that seems quite a lot less than I remember!

Toney is making a much smaller step up in league quality, has a lot more experience and PL coaching in his background. If he does as well as Gray he’ll have done fine but he’s well placed to do much more this season.
 

Lionel Bart-At

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Thinking more on this I think the nearest comparator for Toney among Bees strikers in their first season in the Championship with us might be Andre Gray. He was about 9 months younger when he joined. Had an excellent scoring record in the Conference as a striker. Scored 16 league goals for us. Thinking back that seems quite a lot less than I remember!

Toney is making a much smaller step up in league quality, has a lot more experience and PL coaching in his background. If he does as well as Gray he’ll have done fine but he’s well placed to do much more this season.
Looking back, Gray was profligate (PROFLIGATErofl), considering the number of chances laid on a plate for him, and his blistering pace to get himself into a scoring situation. Like Ollie, the main striker role was thrust upon him slightly unexpectedly. Expect Ivan to follow Ollie's lead in having a much better conversion rate than Andre.
 

TadB

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Thinking more on this I think the nearest comparator for Toney among Bees strikers in their first season in the Championship with us might be Andre Gray. He was about 9 months younger when he joined. Had an excellent scoring record in the Conference as a striker. Scored 16 league goals for us. Thinking back that seems quite a lot less than I remember!

Toney is making a much smaller step up in league quality, has a lot more experience and PL coaching in his background. If he does as well as Gray he’ll have done fine but he’s well placed to do much more this season.
Not sure how much Premier League coaching he had most of his time on the books of Newcastle was spent on loan to lower league clubs.
 

AB

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Not sure how much Premier League coaching he had most of his time on the books of Newcastle was spent on loan to lower league clubs.
True, though still 3 months more than Gray had until over a year after he left us!
 

TadB

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Agreed, which makes me think that the playoffs would be a great achievement this season. Maupay took two seasons to get going and Watkins took a while to adjust to being a regular goalscorer at this level. The drop-off from Watkins to Toney in Season 1 should take us back a decent wodge of xG, especially if we have to bed in a replacement for Said too. Next year should be more promising in terms of having a more cohesive, fit and experienced squad for challenging for automatic places in our division.
I do not believe that he was signed with the intention that he will take two seasons to get going. The club have not paid a near record transfer fee only to go for a play off place if that was the intention the main striker this coming season would be an unknown from the French league two, and the cost £1.5 million. If we do not get promoted this coming season next summer could see the departure of Mbeumo, Norgaard, Henry, and possibly Pinnock. Our model has worked well for us so far, however, at this stage we must gain promotion or face a two year rebuild.
 
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Wooburn Bee

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Saw enough of him getting into the right positions in the box v Wycombe to show me he's got every chance of getting a load of goals for us. Was unlucky with a couple of chances but is obviously short of fitness/sharpness given he hasn't played since March.. I think if we can keep creating the chances then he, Forss and Dervisoglu will happily put them away. Expect more goals from the likes of Canos, Jensen, Marcondes and hopefully the defence can chip in with a few more as well. Anyway, if we can keep the same solid defensive mentality then we don't need to score 5 every game to be right up there..
Totally agree Toney looks every part the number nine and sort of a cross between maupay and Ollie as I never expected Ollie to create a chance out of nothing like Maupay could whereas can see Toney will, even not match fit he was instinctively in the right place in the box. Also unlike last year in Forss we have a natural sub when needed to take some of weight off his shoulders and forss was probably the second best number nine in league one last year. Add to that mbeumo now has a whole season under his belt and is clearly going to be a full French international and a fit and firing Canos plus halil, Fosu and probably one other incoming attacking talent then whilst may take a few games for our front three to gel we have far more options than last season.
 

marvelous007

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I do not believe that he was signed with the intention that he will take two seasons to get going. The club have not paid a near record transfer fee only to go for a play off place if that was the intention the main striker this coming season would be an unknown from the French league two, and the cost £1.5 million. If we do not get promoted this coming season next summer could see the departure of Mbeumo, Norgaard, Henry, and possibly Pinnock. Our model has worked well for us so far, however, at this stage we must gain promotion or face a two year rebuild.
Unfortunately, i agree with you. You can add Raya into that too. If Norgaard can add some goals to his game (with his international caps) he will worth alot of money. For us, we need to step into the Premier. The club have building moving towards this ultimate goal for the last 5 years.
 

swr22

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I don't think I would agree, we paid less than £2mio each for Maupay & Watkins, Maupay was coming from a foreign country and didn't speak the language & Watkins was a lot younger and last year was his first year as a striker. I don't think Brentford would spend the money we have on IT to be happy with a goal return of 10-15 for the season. I also think IT would be aiming higher than that as well. I agree that IT needs to get match fit and learn playing in our team but I think the expectation should be higher.
This is heartening to read! I hope you are right!

I suppose the equation is relatively simple: the drop-off from Watkins -> Toney and. Benrahma -> his replacement has to be less than the improvement from the rest of the squad, if the league is equally competitive as last year. That's doable- we have a young squad who should improve together and Norgaard and Jensen and DaSilva should be full-steam from the get-go, but replacing two players of such class is certainly a challenge.
 

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A key indicator for me about how someone is going to develop are the positions they get into. Looking at the Oxford and Wycombe match, he gets in some very good areas. All he needs is a little more match sharpness and understanding of our play and he will be putting these chances away, but if wasn't getting in the areas he does then I would be more concerned. He might need a little bit of time to settle, but the goals will flow once it all clicks.

This season, 15-20 league goals, accounting for a little settling in. Next season will depend on the league, but I would say 10-15 Prem goals.
 

Bush Tuckerman

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Toney looks like a more natural finisher than Watkins to me...I reckon he’s got more goals in him once starts to gel with the team!
 

scott simpson

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Toney comes across as a lean, mean, goal scoring machine. I’m looking forward to his hatrick tomorrow! I am in no doubt, that this guy will be even more lethal this season, than Ollie was last one. Just hope he stays off the injury list!
 

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I may be wrong but he is the first striker we paid a fee for since Maupay 3 years ago. I honestly have not watched any lower league football in the last few years so was completely unknown what Toney could bring to our team but heard so many positives about him. I don't expect a player that has not played a competitive match since March to hit it from the go but from what I have heard Toney will be a wonderful asset.
 

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Needs much better service than today so can't be judged off the back of that. The one thing that worried me slightly was his first touch - too often the ball was played in to him and it bounced off, indeed he ended up handballing it as a result towards the end of the game.
 

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It showed today how much we need the striker to be part of the whole team engine, rather than simply a talented individual.

There's work to do to make him an effective part of our system. At least we've got 2 other options to give him time if needed.
 

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I am sure he will improve and can do well foe our team . I would however like him to sort his hair out - The margins in top flight sport are very small and his hair seems to distract him at times
 

Delbee

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One shot early in the first hal at least he made the keeper save it. Both us and Ivan need to adapt a style of play that suits both
 

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Showed a couple of good touches coming deep but went chasing the ball a bit and wasn't getting in the good areas he was v Wycombe. Clearly needs games..
 

Indian Bee

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This was only his second competitive game since March and I don't expect him to hit it off straight away. Let's see how he is performing after 8-10 games. He has had no opportunity to date because of the international games to get used to some of the first teamers in the team. I put this out there now he will get at least 15 goals plus for us this season.
 

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This was only his second competitive game since March and I don't expect him to hit it off straight away. Let's see how he is performing after 8-10 games. He has had no opportunity to date because of the international games to get used to some of the first teamers in the team. I put this out there now he will get at least 15 goals plus for us this season.
I sincerely hope he gets more than that, and I expect the management do to.
 

Invipai

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He's not the first player to lack space down to a Karanka style of management...one game you can't tell too much. His first half shot was naive in terms of it was never going to go in, but no worries here.
 

condorman

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He's not the first player to lack space down to a Karanka style of management...one game you can't tell too much. His first half shot was naive in terms of it was never going to go in, but no worries here.
I was quite pleased he took the shot against the young keeper tbh. Would have liked us causing him a few more problems
 

Indian Bee

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I sincerely hope he gets more than that, and I expect the management do to.
I did mention at least 15. The key is that we have 2 strikers in our squad for the first time for ages. I expect between Toney and Forss we will not only match Watkins tally last year but may better it.
 

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I was quite pleased he took the shot against the young keeper tbh. Would have liked us causing him a few more problems
Didn't trouble their keeper nearly enough, although that was partly down to the defence in front of him.
 

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It took Ollie quite a few games to understand his role: working with the team style; getting into the right positions out of possession; and being fit enough to be the first line of defence at the same time. I think Ivan has been used to playing as the 'go to player', roaming around looking for the ball and expecting all his team-mates to pass it to him. I guess also that he's never had to player against a Karanka-inspired side which will not have helped him.
 

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It took Ollie quite a few games to understand his role: working with the team style; getting into the right positions out of possession; and being fit enough to be the first line of defence at the same time. I think Ivan has been used to playing as the 'go to player', roaming around looking for the ball and expecting all his team-mates to pass it to him. I guess also that he's never had to player against a Karanka-inspired side which will not have helped him.
Half the teams in League One play like Birmingham
 

readingbee

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To be fair, just before Mbeumo hit over the bar he backed off and made great space for himself. I’m sure that will be picked up by the coaches tomorrow if they haven’t already.
 

AB

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Half the teams in League One play like Birmingham
Yes, but they’re not nearly as good at it so make plenty of errors that can be exploited.
 

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It took Ollie quite a few games to understand his role: working with the team style; getting into the right positions out of possession; and being fit enough to be the first line of defence at the same time. I think Ivan has been used to playing as the 'go to player', roaming around looking for the ball and expecting all his team-mates to pass it to him. I guess also that he's never had to player against a Karanka-inspired side which will not have helped him.
This is the problem, we don’t really have time. Reason we didn’t go up automatically last year was a slow start and it’s looking like it’s going to be that way again.
 

costabees

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After one game?
Well we can’t just wait 10-15 games for our players to get up to speed again like last season. If we do that, then top 2 won’t happen and we all know what happens with Brentford in the play offs.
 

jlove

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Well we can’t just wait 10-15 games for our players to get up to speed again like last season. If we do that, then top 2 won’t happen and we all know what happens with Brentford in the play offs.
I'm not quite sure what you're proposing?
 

AB

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Well we can’t just wait 10-15 games for our players to get up to speed again like last season. If we do that, then top 2 won’t happen and we all know what happens with Brentford in the play offs.
As Scotty in Star Trek said, ye cannae change the laws of Physics, Jim. Gelling the players takes time and there aren’t really any short cuts. It takes less time if what you expect of them is simple. But the way we play is not simple.
In any case, while it is right that the slow start was a problem last season and one we want to avoid, cutting it from 11 games to 5 would do the trick. At least as significant was the equally poor run (IIRC 9 points from 10 games) just before the Sheff Weds game. That was when the team had gelled, Said was back on form, Norgaard settled into things, Watkins established as a CF.
It’ll be frustrating if we start as poorly as we did last season but I would rather the work on learning and building solidity and resilience to missing one or two key players happened then so that if eg Pontus gets crocked in Feb we keep going. Season before last Norwich started even more poorly than we did last season and ended up winning the league at a canter.
Early season all teams will make mistakes, some teams will get off to a flying start that disguised their fundamental weaknesses (IIRC QPR and Charlton were flying high while we languished in 17th). Arguably losing 2-1 away at Luton, being beaten by Forest at home, letting slip a lead to draw with Cardiff, when we were in the top 6 and looking at climbing just as Leeds and WBA themselves were stuttering a little were more worrying about our fundamental strength than a few disappointing 1-0s early on where we’d had decent performances which hadn’t quite joined up and delivered positive results.
 

Beat Poet

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This is the problem, we don’t really have time. Reason we didn’t go up automatically last year was a slow start and it’s looking like it’s going to be that way again.
A recent problem is that the players who are transfer targets for other clubs (the likes of Watkins, Benrahma, Raya, Maupay) don't play at all in pre-season these days. OK, Watkins and Maupay departed, but Benrahma started last season slow and for whatever reason, Raya is unavailable. So yeah, this all contributes to the slow starts, especially if our stars don't get their moves.
 

Mr Cynical

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A recent problem is that the players who are transfer targets for other clubs (the likes of Watkins, Benrahma, Raya, Maupay) don't play at all in pre-season these days. OK, Watkins and Maupay departed, but Benrahma started last season slow and for whatever reason, Raya is unavailable. So yeah, this all contributes to the slow starts, especially if our stars don't get their moves.
I don't think you can compare last season to this. We changed the entire spine of the team and also our tactics during that period. We've got a pretty settled spine of the side and only look likely to lose 2 players, one of which has already been replaced and the other looks likely to have been v shortly. The performance on Wed showed that we know what we're doing as a team and I don't think it will take us that long to get in tune.
 

liverbee

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He looks very good to me. An intelligent player, weighing things up to make a good contribution and ball skills to go with it. When Brum rushed us in the first half, he wasn’t a weak link, although as a team, we were a bit knocked back.
I like his current hairstyle, but perhaps that would warrant a separate thread.
 

nick logan

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Gonna be superb for us , can the DAG lot please go and watch non league or something 👍
 

Beat Poet

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I don't think you can compare last season to this. We changed the entire spine of the team and also our tactics during that period. We've got a pretty settled spine of the side and only look likely to lose 2 players, one of which has already been replaced and the other looks likely to have been v shortly. The performance on Wed showed that we know what we're doing as a team and I don't think it will take us that long to get in tune.
Nah I'm just pointing out that not playing the transfer targets in pre-season is now a "thing"! The start to the season, well this isn't even the thread for that...defeat in the opening league match, injuries, it's how we roll!
 

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