Ivan Toney

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yep but theyre all playing at a higher level
Hence the reference to not accounting for deviation across leagues! We'll have to have another look after three prem seasons banging them in for the Bees!
 

Andy_Mc_is_God

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Brentford have watched and like Kevin De Bruyne....
Nice !!!!
And that big bloke who plays up front for them looks half-decent (Romulus Lukasko?)
Might be worth the gamble bringing him in as understudy to Ivan.
Just in the event of Man U meeting our £100m valuation after he’s won the Golden Boot this season.
 

gamidov

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Should have had ivan in the england squad. Imagine him taking the 3rd pen instead of rashford. Would have been a certainty. Oh well sure he will be there in 2022 after banging in 20 goals for us this season.
 

Kingston Bee

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Should have had ivan in the england squad. Imagine him taking the 3rd pen instead of rashford. Would have been a certainty. Oh well sure he will be there in 2022 after banging in 20 goals for us this season.
Easy to say but Toney has not taken a penalty at this level before. Who knows what would have happened. You cannot compare a penalty in the shoot off last night to a penalty at home to Blackburn with 2K Brentford supporters in attendance, or even Swansea in the PO final with a 12K crowd, as good as it was.
 

Hippobee

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The uber confident takers can smash it right into the top corner and they will always score. Then you have those that can give the keeper the eyes like Ivan and still hit it into the corner. Again, that requires supreme confidence.

Many players don't have that confidence in a shootout and I've never understood the penalty takers who aim for a couple of feet inside the corner and hit a daisy cutter or just slightly lift it. A keeper is always going to dive and he has at least a 50/50 chance of saving it at that height and direction.

Surely, eyes for one of the corners then smash it down the middle at chest height. At that pace and height, it's unlikely a keeper's legs will save it and how often do you see a keeper not dive either way in a shoot out? There's also a bit of margin for error that way. Italy did it at least once last night. Even going back to one of Lineker's pens in 1990 and Beckham's in 2002, they went straight down the middle.
 

horshambees

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Should have had ivan in the england squad. Imagine him taking the 3rd pen instead of rashford. Would have been a certainty. Oh well sure he will be there in 2022 after banging in 20 goals for us this season.
Point the finger at those not taking a penalty rather than those that did.
He was brave enough to step up when others stood back.
They have taken enough crap from social media as it is without anymore on here.
 

gamidov

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Point the finger at those not taking a penalty rather than those that did.
He was brave enough to step up when others stood back.
They have taken enough crap from social media as it is without anymore on here.
you missed my point but let's leave it then.
 

brooks

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Point the finger at those not taking a penalty rather than those that did.
He was brave enough to step up when others stood back.
They have taken enough crap from social media as it is without anymore on here.
Did they stand back? Southgate said he was responsible for the players he chose to take the penalties.
 

horshambees

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Did they stand back? Southgate said he was responsible for the players he chose to take the penalties.
He will take responsibility as he is the boss, but penalty takers step up.
Rashford and Sancho had been on the park for all of a minute.Not ideal preparation imo.
Saka?
19 years old. No more than a kid.
Someone senior should have stepped in imo.
 

brooks

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He will take responsibility as he is the boss, but penalty takers step up.
Rashford and Sancho had been on the park for all of a minute.Not ideal preparation imo.
Saka?
19 years old. No more than a kid.
Someone senior should have stepped in imo.
Sorry. I liked that by mistake. The fact is not about taking responsibility. It's about being responsible. He chose those players.
 

badgerbee

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He will take responsibility as he is the boss, but penalty takers step up.
Rashford and Sancho had been on the park for all of a minute.Not ideal preparation imo.
Saka?
19 years old. No more than a kid.
Someone senior should have stepped in imo.
No way "someone senior should have stepped in".
The takers, and the order they were to be taken in, were decided, and agreed, well in advance of 10:30 last night. Hence the late substitutions that were made.
The players involved would have known what was expected of them.
Whether they were the right choices is another question.....
 

AB

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No way "someone senior should have stepped in".
The takers, and the order they were to be taken in, were decided, and agreed, well in advance of 10:30 last night. Hence the late substitutions that were made.
The players involved would have known what was expected of them.
Whether they were the right choices is another question.....
Penalty shoot outs are hard. Italy had misses from their pivotal midfielder Jorginho and from the hugely experienced Bonucci (109 caps) who’d scored the equaliser. Sometimes bringing on fresh subs for penalties works (eg the Dutch subbing their keeper!) sometimes it doesn’t. It’s a brutal psychological test that is easy to fail. Even when you slot them away one after another you can end up on the losing side as Man U found in the Europa League.
 

horshambees

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No way "someone senior should have stepped in".
The takers, and the order they were to be taken in, were decided, and agreed, well in advance of 10:30 last night. Hence the late substitutions that were made.
The players involved would have known what was expected of them.
Whether they were the right choices is another question.....
I believe someone senior should have stepped up and not put the responsibility on a kid of 19.
If you disagree with me then that is your choice.
I understand managers orders, but common sense in this situation.

Anyway back to Ivan Toney.
 

marvelous007

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He will take responsibility as he is the boss, but penalty takers step up.
Rashford and Sancho had been on the park for all of a minute.Not ideal preparation imo.
Saka?
19 years old. No more than a kid.
Someone senior should have stepped in imo.

I can't understand why Grealish did not take one. Apperently he volunteered too.
 

Frothybaby

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I was invincible at that age and probably the most cocksure. No one really knows what goes on in the head. IT will probably miss one before he retires. It's how you respond to the misses that count. Sadly for Saka he'll be remembered most for it than Rashford or Sancho. Just like it's Batty's fault and never Ince's (who didn't take one in '96)
 

AB

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I was invincible at that age and probably the most cocksure. No one really knows what goes on in the head. IT will probably miss one before he retires. It's how you respond to the misses that count. Sadly for Saka he'll be remembered most for it than Rashford or Sancho. Just like it's Batty's fault and never Ince's (who didn't take one in '96)
Saka and most of the rest of the team have potentially another 4 or more major tournaments. If this is what he’s remembered for it’ll be a bigger disappointment than it seems today.
 

A Real Mysteron

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Point the finger at those not taking a penalty rather than those that did.
He was brave enough to step up when others stood back.
They have taken enough crap from social media as it is without anymore on here.
I’m fairly sure they aren’t members of the GPG, so we should be OK.
 

Gee Bee

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I can't understand why Grealish did not take one. Apperently he volunteered too.
GS had chosen the takers before the game and brought 2 on for that reason alone. He said it was his selection and nobody elses. Grealish would have known this whene volunteering, he's also only ever taken one penalty for Villa in a reserve game and missed it. .
 

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GS had chosen the takers before the game and brought 2 on for that reason alone. He said it was his selection and nobody elses. Grealish would have known this whene volunteering, he's also only ever taken one penalty for Villa in a reserve game and missed it. .
He missed one here :-
 

Gee Bee

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It seems Gareth picked the penalty takers and that was that.
I don't understand why as well.
Obviously the volunteering bit doesn't count anymore.
The one's he chose also volunteered. Its not that difficult to understand surely. He then chose who he thought were the best takers from what he's seen. Rashford for example rarely misses a penalty and would have been most people's pick as Jorginho would for Italy, who had his saved having rarely failed before.
 
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horshambees

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The one's he chose also volunteered. Its not that difficult to understand surely. He then chose who he thought were the best takers from what he's seen. Rashford for example rarely misses a penalty and would have been most people's pick as Jorginho would for Italy, who had his saved having rarely failed before.
Gareth picks the volunteers?
Struggling to understand that bit tbh.
I like to think that we have moved on, but you stick with it as a lot more has been spoken about this particular incident since I said my bit.
In the not to distant past the manager would approach a team a squad and look for those that would want to take a penalty in a shoot out.
There are those who would step forward and were confident in there own ability, but you needed 5 to be that way.
In the past we have seen those like Alan Shearer, Stuart Pearce, Harry Kane who would say give me the ball and then the ones that no manager would pick like Gareth Southgate. Did he volunteer in 96 or did Terry Venebales pick him?
Trivia question. Who knows the answer, but it seems we are getting messages saying Gareth picked the 5 and players volunteered too.
Can you get both?
Only if all 10 outfield players volunteered and Gareth selected 5 from 7,8,9 or 10, we are not to know this so can only speculate on what has gone before, but it says something for the discipline that the whole team backed Gareth Southgate and did not say something.

Back to Ivan Toney. 😉
 

StevieSteve

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Gareth picks the volunteers?
Struggling to understand that bit tbh.
I like to think that we have moved on, but you stick with it as a lot more has been spoken about this particular incident since I said my bit.
In the not to distant past the manager would approach a team a squad and look for those that would want to take a penalty in a shoot out.
There are those who would step forward and were confident in there own ability, but you needed 5 to be that way.
In the past we have seen those like Alan Shearer, Stuart Pearce, Harry Kane who would say give me the ball and then the ones that no manager would pick like Gareth Southgate. Did he volunteer in 96 or did Terry Venebales pick him?
Trivia question. Who knows the answer, but it seems we are getting messages saying Gareth picked the 5 and players volunteered too.
Can you get both?
Only if all 10 outfield players volunteered and Gareth selected 5 from 7,8,9 or 10, we are not to know this so can only speculate on what has gone before, but it says something for the discipline that the whole team backed Gareth Southgate and did not say something.

Back to Ivan Toney. 😉

On yesterday's Monday Night Club (on BBC Sounds 90 minutes in) they went through how they did it in the U21s in 2009 and how it was likely the same

Stats based on how each performed in training is the gist.
 

horshambees

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On yesterday's Monday Night Club (on BBC Sounds 90 minutes in) they went through how they did it in the U21s in 2009 and how it was likely the same

Stats based on how each performed in training is the gist.
Thank you.
Age old argument I guess is the training ground and European Championship final at Wembley is an entirely different planet and scenario.
I can run a 100 metres in under 10 seconds in my garden in me slippers no problem no pressure.
Stick me in an Olympic final, spikes on, 100k in the stadium, billions on TV, lights flashing, name over the tannoy, wave to the crowd and bang goes the gun off I go and I run in a gallant last clocking a time of 22.4.
Pressure of the stadium.
Not the same as my garden.
Moral of my tale is leave it those who can handle the pressure.
BTW I have hung my slippers up now.
Did make me run faster though.
 

westendbee

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I believe someone senior should have stepped up and not put the responsibility on a kid of 19.
If you disagree with me then that is your choice.
I understand managers orders, but common sense in this situation.

Anyway back to Ivan Toney.
So are you suggesting that Grealish or Sterling should have “done a Trotta” and wrestled the ball away from Saka … imagine the scenes if that had happened and they missed the penalty …
 

AB

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Thank you.
Age old argument I guess is the training ground and European Championship final at Wembley is an entirely different planet and scenario.
I can run a 100 metres in under 10 seconds in my garden in me slippers no problem no pressure.
Stick me in an Olympic final, spikes on, 100k in the stadium, billions on TV, lights flashing, name over the tannoy, wave to the crowd and bang goes the gun off I go and I run in a gallant last clocking a time of 22.4.
Pressure of the stadium.
Not the same as my garden.
Moral of my tale is leave it those who can handle the pressure.
BTW I have hung my slippers up now.
Did make me run faster though.
There are rather a lot of steps in between playing in your garden and training as part of the 26 man England squad during a tournament. Most of which involve demonstrating your ability to translate individual technical skills into actual live performances under pressure. But players still don’t always get it right on the day. If they did, the sport would be utterly tedious because we‘d always know who would win and how.

Also, I’m pretty confident you couldn’t run 100m in under 10 seconds in any environment wearing slippers.
 

gamidov

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There are rather a lot of steps in between playing in your garden and training as part of the 26 man England squad during a tournament. Most of which involve demonstrating your ability to translate individual technical skills into actual live performances under pressure. But players still don’t always get it right on the day. If they did, the sport would be utterly tedious because we‘d always know who would win and how.

Also, I’m pretty confident you couldn’t run 100m in under 10 seconds in any environment wearing slippers.
im pretty certain that most people on the gpg couldnt run 100m in 20 seconds.
 

horshambees

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There are rather a lot of steps in between playing in your garden and training as part of the 26 man England squad during a tournament. Most of which involve demonstrating your ability to translate individual technical skills into actual live performances under pressure. But players still don’t always get it right on the day. If they did, the sport would be utterly tedious because we‘d always know who would win and how.

Also, I’m pretty confident you couldn’t run 100m in under 10 seconds in any environment wearing slippers.
I got close.
I also turned on my stopwatch with 30 metres already run.
So I cheated.
I was young, competitive.
I did run a mile in 4 minutes 10 seconds though.
I did 4 minutes 20 too.
I was young then. I used to run with a lad from Salford who was sub 4 minute miler.
40 years ago and never forgotten it.

Anyway Ivan Toney.
What a great lad and I wish him all the best for the future and his penalties are a joy to behold.
That future being with Brentford of course.
 

Ghost

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Integrity is a scare commodity these days. I back Ivan 100%.
 

Friji

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Good to know that Toney/the squad are here and mean business. Unfair amount of criticism of this statement on social media. Obviously our chances of winning this league are slim but I'm happier for knowing the team will still go into every match with this mindset.. Dream big etc..
 

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Mr Cynical

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Love his attitude! He's right. Why go into the season thinking we're going to go down?? Aim high!
 

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Glad to see you’ve picked up on the key theme of Ivan’s tweet.
Grammar fascist & pedant that I am, it's admittedly the last thing I would have picked up on. I'm really liking Ivan's stance on this.
 
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