Joel Valencia - (June 2023) Season loan to Legia Warsaw

Eieieio

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I get the nurturing approach. Its his first season, he didn't get game time etc. But weirdly he reminds me of Niall McGinn who we had on loan some years back. I watch him play and to my eyes some of the fundamentals just aren't there. And back to my point when is it EVER going to be a better time to show what you can do that when the whole team is performing well? We've watched a small host of B team graduates step up into the fore really well this year and to my mind had a bigger impact than him.

God it sounds like I'm on a downer about the guy but honestly I'm not! He's got my respect for enduring playing in the Polish league hahahaha.
someone playing like Valencia does coming from Polish league to England is always going to get a bit of a shock to the system. if he could get regular game time for half a season in league one (possibly even without the pressure of crowds!) I reckon it'd worth the wages to see if he can adapt.
 

mhead bee

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Joel Valencia is not the first and won't be the last player who needs time to adjust, arriving from another team in another country. Hopefully this season he will be able to show everyone what he is about. Patience from supporters is key.
Probably be a superstar next season, but people can’t help righting people off because they are not SB in the first game.
 

Wouldbee

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Probably be a superstar next season, but people can’t help righting people off because they are not SB in the first game.
I'm not writing him off after one game...I'm suggesting he's not going to step up having watched a season. The 'enough game time ' argument is catch 22. There's a reason players don't get game time, and when they do they either have to grasp the chance or risk dropping down the pecking order. Its the balance between nurturing talent and winning games and hes the ONE player I am saying hasn't progressed as you'd hope.

Let's see if he proves me wrong next season.
 

Ambrose_1889

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There is clearly a player in there but might just not be right for this division, like others (Kerschbaumer, Djuricin, etc) before him who also came from significantly weaker leagues.

If we can move him on and replace him with the likes of Bright Osayi-Samuel, there won't be many complaints. If he kicks on, then great but he doesn't seem at the level Jozefzoon was at at this stage with us.
 

jbee

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If nothing else he will have provided a useful reference point for interpreting data from other leagues.
 

Wouldbee

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If nothing else he will have provided a useful reference point for interpreting data from other leagues.
The Polish league is utter toilet. It makes the Scottish league look like Seria A. You get flashes of brilliance but then again you get flashes of brilliance in the Chiswick and District league doesn't mean I'd sign someone from West London Pheonix or Duke Rangers (no offence lads ;-0)
 

Kingston Bee

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The Polish league is utter toilet. It makes the Scottish league look like Seria A. You get flashes of brilliance but then again you get flashes of brilliance in the Chiswick and District league doesn't mean I'd sign someone from West London Pheonix or Duke Rangers (no offence lads ;-0)
I am sure that the analytics team have taken all that into account.
 

mhead bee

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I'm not writing him off after one game...I'm suggesting he's not going to step up having watched a season. The 'enough game time ' argument is catch 22. There's a reason players don't get game time, and when they do they either have to grasp the chance or risk dropping down the pecking order. Its the balance between nurturing talent and winning games and hes the ONE player I am saying hasn't progressed as you'd hope.

Let's see if he proves me wrong next season.
Heard the same about marcondes and many, many others.

I will let the DOF and coach decide.
 

jbee

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I'm not writing him off after one game...I'm suggesting he's not going to step up having watched a season. The 'enough game time ' argument is catch 22. There's a reason players don't get game time, and when they do they either have to grasp the chance or risk dropping down the pecking order. Its the balance between nurturing talent and winning games and hes the ONE player I am saying hasn't progressed as you'd hope.

Let's see if he proves me wrong next season.
Frank hasn’t been afraid to use him at times though. It’s not like with Dominic Thompson or Dru Yearwood who he clearly doesn’t rate.
 

The Pipe

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Heard the same about marcondes and many, many others.

I will let the DOF and coach decide.
Fully agree, they have a pretty good track record one way and another!!!!

As an aside one thing that does concern me reading the GPG is the way we are happy to spend millions on various players. It is a new world now, yes there will be significant incoming from the likely sales however with reduced attendances the projected income from LR is likely to be halved and that little conundrum needs to be fed into the Balance Sheet together with how long we anticipate MB digging deep into his pockets
 

Eieieio

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Heard the same about marcondes and many, many others.

I will let the DOF and coach decide.
this is a football forum where fans like to debate and discuss. I mean, we could just all agree to stop chatting as mr Benham and all the coaches have our faith and know best, but that would just be a lot less fun.
 

mhead bee

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this is a football forum where fans like to debate and discuss. I mean, we could just all agree to stop chatting as mr Benham and all the coaches have our faith and know best, but that would just be a lot less fun.
Yes, and if people are writing a player off before he has settled in I can also reply that the DOF probably know better
 

beebopalula

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Interesting views. IMO he's not what is needed at this level.l don't question his commitment but that alone isn't enough.
 

hardybee

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Not seen enough of him to have an opinion. Not played enough minutes. Although it does make you wonder if he’s not going to start games like today then he’s obviously not showing enough in training.
 

Mr Cynical

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You have to wonder if he can only get 6 minutes against 10 man Wycombe what the future is for this guy here?
 

upnorthbee

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He's a bit of a mystery isn't he, but doesn't look confident at the moment. Still hoping he gets some minutes and fights for his place this season.
 

HaylingBee74

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I feel he is better as a substitute on the right side than Sergi is. But he definitely needs some regular game time. The drop from 5 to 3 substitutes has down him no favours, I still hope that decision is reversed
 

mhead bee

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I feel he is better as a substitute on the right side than Sergi is. But he definitely needs some regular game time. The drop from 5 to 3 substitutes has down him no favours, I still hope that decision is reversed
What do you think will happen to change this, what are you hoping will happen to reverse this decision?
 

HaylingBee74

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What do you think will happen to change this, what are you hoping will happen to reverse this decision?
I thought I read somewhere over the weekend that the Premier League were still discussing it.

That as Premier League though, so not EFL anyway
 
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Wouldbee

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Iv e said it before and I'll say it again. I get the ' he needs game time' sentiment but the fact he isn't getting time shows the manager doesn't think hes at it. Like Jeanvier its time to loan him out. My personal feel is he's been found wanting , sadly. I'd transfer him with all the best wishes and concede it hasn't worked out.

I'm going to draw analogy with three past players who we tended to use as laterntaive striking/ attacking options. Dallas. El Alagui. McGinn.

Dallas was only mainly rated as a sub but used to come on and either score or set up goals. He didn't start many games even when he did well, but he generally did well. I was sad he left. He was a good example of a man who grabbed the chances he was given.
El Alagui barely got starts and didn't score many goals . However he was always bright, he added a genuinely different dimension to our attack and things started to open up when he came on late in games. So he didn't QUITE do enough to merit a starting place ahead of some very good players but you feel he could develop though eventually time ran out for him.
McGinn was on loan, came on for us in games and did very little. We didn't look to try and buy him because he did nothing to peak interest of note other than run about.

Comparing Valencia to those three I'd say he falls somewhere between Alagui and McGinn in terms of what hes brought and where he is.
 

Eieieio

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Iv e said it before and I'll say it again. I get the ' he needs game time' sentiment but the fact he isn't getting time shows the manager doesn't think hes at it. Like Jeanvier its time to loan him out. My personal feel is he's been found wanting , sadly. I'd transfer him with all the best wishes and concede it hasn't worked out.

I'm going to draw analogy with three past players who we tended to use as laterntaive striking/ attacking options. Dallas. El Alagui. McGinn.

Dallas was only mainly rated as a sub but used to come on and either score or set up goals. He didn't start many games even when he did well, but he generally did well. I was sad he left. He was a good example of a man who grabbed the chances he was given.
El Alagui barely got starts and didn't score many goals . However he was always bright, he added a genuinely different dimension to our attack and things started to open up when he came on late in games. So he didn't QUITE do enough to merit a starting place ahead of some very good players but you feel he could develop though eventually time ran out for him.
McGinn was on loan, came on for us in games and did very little. We didn't look to try and buy him because he did nothing to peak interest of note other than run about.

Comparing Valencia to those three I'd say he falls somewhere between Alagui and McGinn in terms of what hes brought and where he is.
Think you're quite right that Valencia needs to go out on loan somewhere where he'll play every week. Give him a chance to prove himself in an english league. But seems pretty clear he's unlikely as things stand to get a run of games as a starter for us?
 

jbee

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Think you're quite right that Valencia needs to go out on loan somewhere where he'll play every week. Give him a chance to prove himself in an english league. But seems pretty clear he's unlikely as things stand to get a run of games as a starter for us?
Very tough to find that loan, if he would even want it.
 
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Iv e said it before and I'll say it again. I get the ' he needs game time' sentiment but the fact he isn't getting time shows the manager doesn't think hes at it. Like Jeanvier its time to loan him out. My personal feel is he's been found wanting , sadly. I'd transfer him with all the best wishes and concede it hasn't worked out.

I'm going to draw analogy with three past players who we tended to use as laterntaive striking/ attacking options. Dallas. El Alagui. McGinn.

Dallas was only mainly rated as a sub but used to come on and either score or set up goals. He didn't start many games even when he did well, but he generally did well. I was sad he left. He was a good example of a man who grabbed the chances he was given.
El Alagui barely got starts and didn't score many goals . However he was always bright, he added a genuinely different dimension to our attack and things started to open up when he came on late in games. So he didn't QUITE do enough to merit a starting place ahead of some very good players but you feel he could develop though eventually time ran out for him.
McGinn was on loan, came on for us in games and did very little. We didn't look to try and buy him because he did nothing to peak interest of note other than run about.

Comparing Valencia to those three I'd say he falls somewhere between Alagui and McGinn in terms of what hes brought and where he is.
Farid was starting to look good, forming a decent understanding with Clayton and then got a bad knee injury. Harsh. Wasn't the same after that.
 

HaylingBee74

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Without Said & Ollie as starters, who both played almost 90 mins of every game (Ollie was especially) there should be more opportunities for game time from the bench. The season is over a month shorter.
He needs the phrase “make an impact” ringing in his ears a little more this season, as in his goal at Reading
 

alexcavell

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Farid was starting to look good, forming a decent understanding with Clayton and then got a bad knee injury. Harsh. Wasn't the same after that.
And by the time he came back we were playing with 1 upfront, which didn't really suit him, rather than 4-4-2 when he first joined
 

liverbee

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You have to wonder if he can only get 6 minutes against 10 man Wycombe what the future is for this guy here?
Or you could take the view that Thomas Frank is testing other players for stamina etc. I lost the signal on Sunday to the weather, but I’m still holding expectations for more good things from this chap.
 

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